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Encanto Farms Nursery > Topics > Can someone explain varieties?
 
 


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JoAnn749

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
I am trying to remember stuff I learned about botany oh so many years ago.  As far as I know, all living thins require a male/female to create more-pretty simple.  

Are figs more like people where no matter how many children a couple have they will all be different (aside from identical twins of course!) ?

Now assuming that is true ( I know what is said about assuming ), Where are all of the newer varieties coming from if there are only a certain percentage of figs that are male/female?  Are the offspring of these parents sterile?

I need another lesson in fig botany ;)
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Jo-Ann DFW TX, Zone 7b-8a Wish List: Black Madeira,, Kathleen's Black, Malta Black, Marseille VS Black, White Paradisio, LSU Scott's Black, Conadria, White Trianna, Marttineca Rimada, Excel, Peter's Honey, Bebera Preta (Abebereira), Strawberry Verte
Ingevald

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Here is some good information on fig genetics on this site http://waynesword.palomar.edu/pljun99b.htm   

Figs propagated from seed will all be genetically unique.    New varieties are selected from figs created in the wild and from intentional breeding efforts.   Understanding the genetics of what determines sex and what determines persistence (figs requiring pollination or not) can be confusing - it is a bit complex.     Take a look at posting #13 on this link http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Fig-trees-from-Seed-4544940?highlight=ingevald+persistent    Hopefully this will also be helpful.

Ingevald
JoAnn749

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Thank you - I will look at those!
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Jo-Ann DFW TX, Zone 7b-8a Wish List: Black Madeira,, Kathleen's Black, Malta Black, Marseille VS Black, White Paradisio, LSU Scott's Black, Conadria, White Trianna, Marttineca Rimada, Excel, Peter's Honey, Bebera Preta (Abebereira), Strawberry Verte
hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
There is one more element that Ingevald did not mention, although he was the one who brought it to the forum's attention originally. That is asexual reproduction, or apomixis. Where seeds are produced spontaneously or induced using the pollen of related plant species. The seeds will only carry the mothers genes and will all be common/persistent females. It seems that they will however show variation in fruit and growth characteristics much like a normal seedling. Only a minority of varieties are able to do this. FMD reported that he grew a Celeste this way, and that makes sense because Herman2 has said for a long time that there are many different types of Celeste(not including LSU figs). 
So if you want to try seeds that is the easiest way and offers the greatest reward because there will be no caprifigs to weed out later. FMD just put some seeds to sprout so using other plant pollen is not needed if you are lucky. 
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JoAnn749

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
My motivation to understand this is not to grow from seeds or try fertilize and get seeds or anything like that.  My motivation is to understand the hundreds of varieties and how they came about.  Recently there was a conversation about Hardy Chicago may be the same as Sam Corleone and the differences between the "same" varieties offered by different nurseries.

The way I am understanding it now is this - Each seed produces a unique individual tree - even though 2 or 10 seeds from the same fruit may be planted and produce edible fruit, they will be different - similar to the animal world ( don't need to understand the actual genes with the % of caprifigs, females and whatevers).  So the ONLY way to propagate a fig to be like the parent is through cuttings or some high tech cloning.

The reason a particular fig will perform differently in different regions is due to the genetics of the fig coupled with the local environment the fig is growing .

Does that some it up? 
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Jo-Ann DFW TX, Zone 7b-8a Wish List: Black Madeira,, Kathleen's Black, Malta Black, Marseille VS Black, White Paradisio, LSU Scott's Black, Conadria, White Trianna, Marttineca Rimada, Excel, Peter's Honey, Bebera Preta (Abebereira), Strawberry Verte
DesertDance

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Jo-Ann,

I think all the hundreds of varieties are from seeds, and yes, cuttings reproduce true.  I have a seedling.  ONE!  It grew on the side of the pot, of course, never in the middle!  But it was from store bought black mission.  It's leaves are still green with no sign of dormancy, but it's a tiny little thing!

It may not produce figs at all.  Time will tell.  Growing figs from seed is a fun and enjoyable thing, and rarely, a really good and unusual fig comes from that practice!  Jon got one growing under a coffee tree.  He calls it "Raspberry Latte."  Mine was growing under the Tempranillo Wine Grape Vine, so it's name, should it bear figs, will be "Missranillo!" (Mission combined with Tempranillo)

Also, we are gifted cuttings called "unknown whatever."  After time, the unknown becomes named after the street it grew on.  BUT in reality, it is a "known" fig that nobody researched.  I have one, for example, that in the stealth of the night, I got green cuttings.  Never tasted the figs, but 2 cuttings survived, and once I get an actual fig to ripen, I guarantee I will post it here along with a leaf for ID, prior to calling it some name of my own making!  Promise!!

Your DK is coming tomorrow.  Just checked the tracking number.  I guess they don't count the day you mailed it as day one on priority!  LOL!  Should be fine!

Suzi
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hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
That is right Jo-Ann. Except for the part about Sal's Corleone and HC. Hardy Chicago is very similar to Sal's EL, they both belong to a family of figs from Mt. Etna, they are most likely sisters from seed or it is also remotely possible that one is a mutation of the other. So when a single branch mutates and is propagated it is called a sport and also a new distinct variety. Panache is thought to be a sport of Col de Dame Blanche.
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JoAnn749

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Alright - I think I got it, no wonder there has been so much confusion with figs! 

Thank you
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Jo-Ann DFW TX, Zone 7b-8a Wish List: Black Madeira,, Kathleen's Black, Malta Black, Marseille VS Black, White Paradisio, LSU Scott's Black, Conadria, White Trianna, Marttineca Rimada, Excel, Peter's Honey, Bebera Preta (Abebereira), Strawberry Verte
omotm

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Ingeveld - thank you for the "waynesword" link.  It made my head hurt, but I learned a great deal.
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Ingevald

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Thanks for the discussion on this topic.   I am glad that the apomixis was mentioned.    Yes, the information compiled on the Waynesword site will make your head spin, but am glad that the information is available!   There many interesting aspects related to figs.  Aside from enjoying eating the good fruit, the other interesting bits of knowledge make it all the more exciting.

Ingevald
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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Correct me if I am wrong, I assumed a lot of fig varieties came about from genetic mutation and gene expression differences from asexual reproduction.

If I take a cuttings of fig xyz, and plant it in two drastically different climatic conditions. I would think over time environmental influences, could cause gene expression.
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