TucsonKen
Registered:1246833094 Posts: 1,298
Posted 1304802210
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#1
A little more than a month ago I planted this Black Madeira (last year's UCD cutting) in the ground; it has been growing in full sun since early spring with no signs of stress. Once it was planted, I put it on a drip system at 1/2 gallon per day. Other than a bad case of FMV and getting the leaf margins munched by leafcutter ants, it's been doing fine--until I recently noticed the leaves turning black from (I assume) a pretty severe sunburn.
I had read that Black Madeiras love heat, so the sunburn came as a surprise--but I put some shade over it and in a few days it had dropped nearly all of the blackened leaves and was putting our a little bit of new growth. Then I read Dan's post today on another thread regarding the importance of deep watering for new in-ground transplants, and wondered if the problem with mine was simply not enough water. I went out and looked closely at my other new plantings, and they seem a little stressed as well, so I soaked everything thoroughly with the hose.
Now I'm wondering--How much water do you experienced growers (especially those of you in hot, dry climates) give to your new, 1-gallon transplants, and how frequently? How would you recommend nursing this baked BM back to health? Should I fertilize it? Any advice would be much appreciated--thanks!
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blackened_Madeira.jpg (183.74 KB, 151 views)
blackened_Madeira,_later.jpg (159.23 KB, 114 views)
__________________ Ken
Tucson, Arizona
Zone 8b
FrozenJoe
Registered:1244509224 Posts: 1,115
Posted 1304803593
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#2
Ken,
I would avoid fertilizing a stressed out young plant, especially now that it's getting hot outside. It could kill the plant.
__________________ Joe Phoenix Area (Zone 9) I am MrFrozenJoe on YouTube. I am arizonafigs on eBay.
snaglpus
Registered:1244258188 Posts: 4,072
Posted 1304804205
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#3
Ken, I would not fertilize it. If it was my plant, I would dig it up, repot it and let it sit in the shade for 3 week and only water it using rain water and see what happens. Good luck!
__________________ Dennis Charlotte, North Carolina/Zone 8a
james
Registered:1189185103 Posts: 1,653
Posted 1304805512
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#4
Ken, you beat me to the punch on this tread. My experience with Black(ened) Madeira is similar to yours. I planted my trees in the ground in early April. After a week of overcast skies, the sun came back with a vengeance. All of the trees which had leafed out, suffered set backs. "Black Madeira" is the only variety that has still not recovered from the incident. I started thinking about this event and the previous years of trying to root/grow it. I also started digging through my memory about what people have written about "Black Madeira" on the forums. I am not convinced it is a heat loving plant. I seem to remember thinking (after reading some threads) there was a pretty significant disconnect between people in the north rooting this variety versus people in the south. ~james
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OttawanZ5
Registered:1192897779 Posts: 2,551
Posted 1304813756
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#5
It is not nice of Black Madeira not to like hot sun and then requiring a lot of heat units (long summer) to ripen, as I have read in some post. I hope once established it will behave properly not minding decently good hot sun.
__________________Ottawan-Z5a, Canada
Dan_la
Registered:1189771593 Posts: 1,438
Posted 1304818164
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#6
Your tree is still very small.........and is likely getting baked in the hot sun because the leaves are so close to the ground. This is what I would do with that little tree if it were mine: Don't remove it from the ground and yes I would increase the amount of water going to your little tree. Remember that DEEP WATERING is more important to the development of your little tree than fertilizer right now. ( I am assuming that your soil drains properly and a hard pan is not just below your top soil or on the sides of your hole. There is a simple test you can perform to see if your soil drains properly and is OK for growing fruit tees. Let me know if you need that information.) Get you some cover over your little tree to help block "some" of the sunlight. One way is to put some stakes around your tree and attach a piece of sunscreen (shade cloth) overhead.......the kind that they sell for greenhouses. Another way is to place some boards across 5 gallon buckets.....and adjust the spacing between those boards to adjust the amount of shading of your plant. Keep the ground ALWAYS moist (never let it go completely dry for the first year...even in winter time) and with the sunscreen blocking some of the direct sunlight rays (at least 50% rating).....your little tree should respond accordingly. Once you start to see new growth developing on your tree.......and since it is so small, give it some 1/2 strength Miracle grow. This combination of reducing sunlight, keeping ground moist, and later feeding some MG.......should allow your tree to really take off. Once your tree is about 2 ft. tall, I would begin using an 8-8-8 all purpose fertilizer. Simply broadcast directly on the ground and water it in with a hose or sprinkler. Stop with all fertilizing later in the season so as to not encourage more vigorous new growth that will not have sufficient time to harden off before the cold winter temperatures arrive in your area. Best of luck to you and please do keep us informed on your progress. Dan Semper Fi-cus
satellitehead
Registered:1257988353 Posts: 3,687
Posted 1304818953
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#7
i dunno about y'all, but leaf scorch normally doesn't present like this for me. usually the leaves end up bleach white in spots, then the leaf dries out (to a tan color), and the leaf matieral falls out, leaving a web of veins.
__________________ Jason
Atlanta/Grant Park area - z8
Dan_la
Registered:1189771593 Posts: 1,438
Posted 1304819507
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#8
.....scorching and baking are two different things. Dan Semper Fi-cus
TucsonKen
Registered:1246833094 Posts: 1,298
Posted 1304826332
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#9
Thanks everybody, for the input. I'll hold off on the fertilizer, water deep, and put a better shade lattice over it. Dennis, I doubt I'll see another drop of rainwater until mid-July, but our neighborhood is supplied by a well and the quality is quite good.
Dan, I think your observation about high heat near the ground is right on the money. This little tree sat out in full sun through the hottest part of the summer last year and loved it, but it was up on a rack about a foot off the ground, and the black pot was sleeved inside a white bucket to keep the roots from overheating. In addition, all the pots sat in shallow water basins, so they could keep a little cooler just through transpiration. It might have escaped damage this year with increased irrigation, but it's hard to say--it's the shortest of all the others, by far, and I think the combination of direct sun and reflected heat off the mulch layer has created a shallow "oven zone" that's too much for any leaves growing right near the surface. I looked at the other trees once again, closely, and on the Conadria noticed similar damage to part of one leaf that is very close to the ground. Maybe I'd better put shade over some of the others, too, just to be on the safe side.
__________________ Ken
Tucson, Arizona
Zone 8b
pitangadiego
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Registered:1188871011 Posts: 5,447
Posted 1304827654
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#10
It was probably too much sun/heat, and maybe too little water, for a young plant this early in the season. A little pampering, maybe a little more water, some shade on the really hot days and it should be fine. Black Madeira does need heat to ripen properly, but small plants are not always ready to run with the big boys, and need some lovin' till they grow up.
__________________ Encanto Farms Nursery
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TucsonKen
Registered:1246833094 Posts: 1,298
Posted 1304870982
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#11
Jon--I've put lots of pampering and TLC on the schedule from now through the end of summer. I can already see the difference in all of them after their big soak yesterday, and with a few more weeks of deep watering I expect everybody will be growing like weeds.
__________________ Ken
Tucson, Arizona
Zone 8b
texascockatoos
Registered:1278784595 Posts: 384
Posted 1304875951
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#12
We fit the dry hot climate. Reaching temps in the 90's now and have had only 1.87" of rain this year so far. I turn the hoses on with a small steady stream then set the timer for 30 minutes and do this every other day. The newly planted babies are doing great, most have doubled their size with this method. I have not put any fertilizer on them.
__________________ Cathy
Central, Texas (Zone 8A)
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TucsonKen
Registered:1246833094 Posts: 1,298
Posted 1304898167
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#13
Sounds like a good approach, Cathy. I've been giving my new in-ground trees 30 minutes a day from a single, one-gallon emitter each, basing the quantity on what they had been getting in their pots, which has been enough to keep the ground underneath pretty wet from all the overflow. Clearly, though, it's not enough once they're in the ground. I had failed to consider how much water gets sucked up by the surrounding soil; also, they had basins under them while still in their pots, so that provided an additional reservoir to draw from. I'm thinking I'll leave the drip system set as-is for now, but I'll also give each tree a good soak from the hose every two or three days, depending on how hot it is and how stressed they look.
__________________ Ken
Tucson, Arizona
Zone 8b
pitangadiego
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Posted 1304917710
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#14
A lot of these issues are solved by growing the plants in pots (where there more easily managed) until the out-grow a 5g pot, and then they are big enough to take the stresses. I have seen no advantage to planting 1g plants in the ground, or even 2g plants. A 1g plat is a 1g plant, no matter how thick the walls of the pot. Planting it in the ground is just transferring it to a pot with thicker walls, and, as Ken says, the "pot" (ground) works against you by wicking away water.
__________________ Encanto Farms Nursery
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Dan_la
Registered:1189771593 Posts: 1,438
Posted 1304954074
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#15
In my zone 9 climate (not suggesting this will work in cooler zones).....I can take a cutting, then root it, then pot it up, harden both the roots and leaves off, then plant it in the ground and produce a nice little tree BEFORE cold temperatures arrive. You need to water deeply for that to happen. Without giving them much fertilizer and not allowing them to ripen any figs.....most will go through the winter just fine. I just cover them with a 5 gallon bucket or garbage can when freeze is predicted (not very often in my yard0. The following spring......again go with deep watering and giving them some fertilizer this time around. Most will "grow like weeds" and often produce a fig crop in their second year. You CAN DEFINTIEY get fig trees to fruit MUCH earlier for you with this approach.......but, ya gotta help those little trees out and give them what they want. Dan Semper Fi-cus
TucsonKen
Registered:1246833094 Posts: 1,298
satellitehead
Registered:1257988353 Posts: 3,687
Posted 1305081229
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#17
Another interesting idea .... I like it!
__________________ Jason
Atlanta/Grant Park area - z8
Dan_la
Registered:1189771593 Posts: 1,438
Posted 1305116864
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#18
When ya can't move the little tree to some shade..........move some shade to the tree!!! Another neat fix.......thanks for keeping us informed on your progress. Dan Semper Fi-cus
Ben_in_SoFla
Registered:1288532559 Posts: 134
Posted 1305117772
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#19
Cool looking 'HAT'.... gardeners HAVE to be resourceful... Thanks for posting, am sure other desert dwellers and deep south growers can benefit... Ben
__________________ Ben, North Central Florida Zone 8B - 9
JD
Registered:1252379847 Posts: 1,162
Posted 1305141817
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#20
On Monday, I sun screened several scion that I planted directly into the ground about 8 weeks ago. I covered the 1/2" 19 gauge galvanized "hardware cloth" is covered with scraps of 30% and 45% shade cloth. In addition to sun screening, it also protects them from an errant weed whacker. This attempt represents the Portuguese figs of San Diego section (thanks to Sue: svanessa) of my fig hedge (inspired by John: GeorgiaFig) just at the border of our property and the undeveloped adjacent lot. Also include how I convert my home irrigation to drip.
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sunscreened001.jpg (295.14 KB, 56 views)
sunscreened002.jpg (399.85 KB, 43 views)
sunscreened003.jpg (318.69 KB, 47 views)
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jd | tallahassee.fl | zone 8b
TucsonKen
Registered:1246833094 Posts: 1,298
Posted 1309968104
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#21
Just a quick update to say thanks again for the shared experiences & advice. The deep watering and eventual doses of fertilizer, along with filtered shade seem to have done the trick. The "Blackened" Madeira even appears to be finally growing some leaders that will reach higher than three inches above the ground!
The benefits of the deep watering and fertilizer are even more pronounced in my other young figs, which have all greatly increased their size over the last couple of months and are still growing strong.
Attached Images
Black_Madeira_6_Jul_2011_.jpg (143.69 KB, 60 views)
__________________ Ken
Tucson, Arizona
Zone 8b
Dan_la
Registered:1189771593 Posts: 1,438
Posted 1309970367
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#22
Ken, What works for the figs in my yard should work well for you too. Thanks for giving us an update. Next year watch how well your trees will respond to this year's deep watering and some early spring fertilizing next year. They should grow like weeds!! IMO, DEEP watering is essential to getting young in-ground fig trees to grow and bear fruit early. One reason is because it allows the young fig tree to develop a much stronger root system. Remember, they DO NOT HAVE A TAP ROOT and you need to have moisture down deep to encourage the surface roots to grow outwards AND downwards. Dan Semper Fi-cus
pitangadiego
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Posted 1309976823
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#23
It is very important to understand that a 1g plant in the ground is still a 1g plant. A 1g plant in a 15g container is still a 1g plant. It is not an adult. Put a 2 year old in high heals and a cocktail dress and it is still a 2 year old, Ken, in you harsh summer climate, this is even more so: you have a 1g plant in the ground AND in an oven. Add a 20 mph breeze and it is a convection oven. Glad it is getting happy.
__________________ Encanto Farms Nursery
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TucsonKen
Registered:1246833094 Posts: 1,298
Posted 1309979065
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#24
Jon--all true, but with an important difference. The roots of a one-gallon tree in a one-gallon pot only have access to a gallon of soil, and although the roots can circle around inside the pot, in terms of real distance they can't spread any farther than a few inches from the trunk. In the ground, the same young roots can spread as far as they "want", and can begin creating a network that will keep getting thicker, stronger, and farther-reaching with time. The root system of a tree that attains fifteen gallon size in a pot isn't likely to be anywhere near as extensive as the roots of a tree that reaches the same size after being planted in the ground as a one-gallon.
__________________ Ken
Tucson, Arizona
Zone 8b
pitangadiego
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Posted 1310006840
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#25
I understand what you are saying, and the benefits of being in-ground. I just run into a lot of people who plant a 1 g tree and treat it as if it was a 15 year old full grown tree. They don't see it as a 1g plant that still needs babying ad TLC - more frequent watering, easier touch on the fertilizer, etc. To them, in-ground is in-ground. It is a concept that seems foreign to a lot of people who don't have a lot of gardening experience. It is the same on the other end: older trees (all sorts of trees) are more cold tolerant than young trees. If you can nurse them through a few winters, often they will be fine on their own with more age. This seems to be true, for example, with mangos.
__________________ Encanto Farms Nursery
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TucsonKen
Registered:1246833094 Posts: 1,298
Posted 1310008266
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#26
Good point--I certainly didn't understand how much TLC this one would need when I first planted it, which is why this thread got started in the first place! Hopefully now that I've learned a few things and the trees have gotten bigger, I'll be able to get them through a few winters (and summers) and buy them enough time to build up some toughness.
As far as mangoes go, if the seed I recently planted (in a pot) actually sprouts and survives, I plan to keep it in a container its whole life. Even after trying covers, a thermostat-controlled electric heater, and a light bulb on an extension cord, something has always gone wrong--each of my in-ground attempts at growing mangoes have eventually ended in funerals.
__________________ Ken
Tucson, Arizona
Zone 8b
TucsonKen
Registered:1246833094 Posts: 1,298
Posted 1340468448
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#27
Update:
My Black Madeira seems to have pretty much shrugged off its initial challenges and is taking off. FMV is still evident but doesn't seem severe (at least compared to how it used to be), the nodes are much longer, and it's developing quite a few figs. I'm guessing the main factors are frequent deep watering, lots of fertilizer (unscientifically applied), mulch, sun/heat, and time.
Attached Images
Black_Madeira_figlets_June_2012.jpg (130.32 KB, 53 views)
Black_Madeira_June_2012.jpg (215.10 KB, 58 views)
__________________ Ken
Tucson, Arizona
Zone 8b
go4broek
Registered:1287592943 Posts: 1,200
Posted 1340468893
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#28
Looks great, Ken!
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Cibolo, TX/Zone 8b
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bullet08
Registered:1284496248 Posts: 6,920
Posted 1340469061
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#29
Looking good, Ken. I hope to keep my Black Madeira long enough to see to that size. All three are doing well so far in 1 gal pots.
Pete
__________________ Pete Durham, NC Zone 7b "don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill "the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher ***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. ***** ***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
rafed
Registered:1252876934 Posts: 5,308
Posted 1340469391
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#30
Looking good Ken.
Chivas
Registered:1283819505 Posts: 1,675
Posted 1340469567
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#31
Glad to she she survived and is pushing out figs for you, I hope you get a good taste in a couple months.
__________________ Canada Zone 6B
Dieseler
Registered:1215735852 Posts: 8,252
Posted 1340473680
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#32
Oh its doing well from the looks of it.
Gina
Registered:1330452963 Posts: 2,260
Posted 1340505492
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#33
Thanks for the update.
Interesting thread with good information.
__________________ WillsC's new fig forum: http://www.Ourfigs.com (and blueberries)
TucsonKen
Registered:1246833094 Posts: 1,298
Posted 1340510116
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#34
Thanks all, I'll post a photo if the fruit ripens.
__________________ Ken
Tucson, Arizona
Zone 8b
twobrothersgarden
Registered:1355136466 Posts: 332
Posted 1359751530
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#35
Hi, Ken just wanted to share my experience growing in the my area. I live in what is called a "rain shadow desert". It hot, dry, and unforgiving. Clay soil so thick that when it does rain, the rain water just pools and evaporates. The salinity in our water and soil is so high we have salt flats in some areas. Summer temperatures reach into the 100's for 3 month's straight. Lessons I've learned: - Check the drainage of the soil. - Amend the soil with sand, compost, perlite, ect. - In the summer water at night. - Mulch the ground heavily with leaves, bark...to insulate the ground against summer heat and winter chill. - Shade in ground trees for first 2 years during the summer. - When in doubt, grow in containers.
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