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Herman2

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Reply with quote  #1 
Here it is,on my Marseilles black vs, here in NJ.
Spent Winter without frost protection,and manage to keep Breba buds,despite ,11*F,,the lowest it was in Jan 2012.
It had insignificant leaf Damage from last frost,and now is getting ahead just fine.
I have no doubt I will have 2 dozen Breba ripe before July 1st.
Happy Gardening to all!

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dawgdrvr

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Reply with quote  #2 
Unprotected in your Zone 6 and the Breba crop didn't drop. Way cool. Will you be selling cuttings next winter on Ebay?
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Cody
Grand Mound,WA 98579
Plantmaps Zone 7~A, Sunset Zone 4 and USDA Zone 8~A.

WISH LIST: San Pedro ,Breba & Early crop Figs and ANY figs from 'Belleclare Nursery'
bullet08

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Reply with quote  #3 

beautiful looking tree.

 

pete


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Pete
Durham, NC
Zone 7b

"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
robertharper

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Reply with quote  #4 
That's why Marseilles Black VS needs more growers to test, in colder areas. 

From weather records, we know for sure the American mother tree has survived minus 18 to minus 19 degrees Fahrenheit below.

 Have not been able to reach Warren to see whether or not the top survive or not. Or to see whether or not it was able to bear a breba crop, the following Spring. But the tree most certainly survived. Because it experienced those lows two to three years before Warren shared cuttings with Herman.

From cuttings we purchased from Herman we were able to produce several trees. We sold all except for four. We have three in ground tress being tested for different things. One is planted in a very wet spot. One is being grown in a very cold spot, and one is being grown in a spot were it gets under 6 hours of direct sun light. Plus, we have one in a pot.

All produced figs that were more then acceptable last year. Even with the one planted in the very wet spot. Plus, last year was the wettest summer we have ever had. 

So far we finding that Marseilles Black VS, is not only cold hardy, but appears to be able to produce under less then ideal growing conditions.

This fall we will not winterize one of them, to see if it is able survive in a zone 5.

I would not be surprise if it turns out Marseilles Black ends up being able to be grown as far north as a zone 5, without winterizing, as long as it is grown in a protected spot.

Is there any one else who can report on Marseilles Black VS. Mainly how much cold it has taken at your place?

So far Herman and Warren's Marseilles Black VS has turned out to be the most versatile fig we have under test.

That was a great find Herman, thanks.

Bob, zone 5 Connecticut


MichaelTucson

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Reply with quote  #5 
>> Quoting:  That's why Marseilles Black VS needs more growers to test, in colder areas. 

This is very interesting.  It sounds like you've got a good set of tests going on this particular tree variant.  If you need or want additional zone 5 testing locations, I'm willing and interested.  (Sounds like you have a good variety of testing already in the works though).  I've got zone 5a conditions and 5b in two different tracts (the 5a is more wind exposed, with westerly winds on a hillside, good drainage but rocky soil), and could take good notes.
 
Either way, I'll look forward to hearing the results you find.

Mike    central NY state, zone 5

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dawgdrvr

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
 The  American mother tree has survived minus 18 to minus 19 degrees Fahrenheit below.  

Holy Smokes, that is one hardy fig .I had to read that several times. Are there any more Varieties that have withstood those negative temps? I will be doing the exact same tests as you Bob. My piece of land is situated in a bowl between 2 sets of hills in a flat prairie. We have a constant wind with gusts in the winter up to 80 MPH.  The north side of the property slopes towards my neighbors  and is boggy . And the South side is sheltered by Spruce  and Cedars trees .

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Cody
Grand Mound,WA 98579
Plantmaps Zone 7~A, Sunset Zone 4 and USDA Zone 8~A.

WISH LIST: San Pedro ,Breba & Early crop Figs and ANY figs from 'Belleclare Nursery'
robertharper

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Reply with quote  #7 
Dawgdrvr, although all of our Marseilles Black VS figs are planted in the ground, they are all planted were there are wind breaks. That much wind just might kill any fig. If I could not plant in a protected spot, away from the wind, I would try to use some Wilt Pruf on them. Also, there is a new product finally out called FreezePruf. That might also help with the wind.

Since we have been bending all of our dozen or so different varieties to the ground, and covering them with soil, and insulation to keep them dry, we have not had to use either WiltPruf or FreezePruf yet. But, I'm thinking about using it when we leave one of the  the three year old Marseilles Black VS uncovered this winter. I have been told that Hanc Mathies used WiltPruf on his figs, to protect them from the wind.

As to other figs that might be as cold hardy as Marseilles Black VS. We have only been able to locate two other possibles; Hanc Mathies's English Brown Turkey. (Herman feels it's really a Southern Brown Turkey). I tend to lean toward Herman's identification. Since it is smaller then any English Brown Turkey that I have ever seen. I forgot which, but either Hanc or the nursery were Hanc bought it from, thought it might be able to be grown in ground as far north as zone 4b. (With protection) The other fig that some think might prove to be as hardy as Marseilles Black VS, is LaRadek's English Brown Turkey. Some growers in Europe are indicating it to, has survived minus 18 degrees Fahrenheit. It to is being grown in a protected spot up against the foundation of a house.

Bob, zone 5 Connecticut
Chivas

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Reply with quote  #8 
How much Different is the Marseilles Black VS from Marseilles Black?  I know one Canadian retailer sells Marseilles Black, but I am worried that it is not as cold hardy as Marseilles Black VS.
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Herman2

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Reply with quote  #9 
Chivas ask him where he got the tree from:
I sent cuttings to Canada to a fellow in Ottawa ,only one time I managed to have them successfully get over the border,and This person have the tree as we speak,and he got ripe fruits from it.
It could be the same strain if it originated from Ottawa cuttings.
VS stands for my initials,as it was labeled like that by the owner of the largest Fig nursery in the USA,and the owner of the Fig for Fun site,Jon Verdick.

Chivas

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Reply with quote  #10 
It is coming from Brugmansia in Quebec, I will have to find out from him, it is posisble he also got it out of France, I will update what I find out.

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PHD

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Reply with quote  #11 
Hi Robert,
 Reading your post I was surprised you did not mention Florea as being as cold hardy as Black MVS and LaRadek. Reading other post's on the forum Florea appears to be very coldy hardy. Just curious if you have tried growing it in your area.

 Take care
  Pete
paully22

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Reply with quote  #12 
Chivas, if I am not wrong, Brugmansia bought a bunch of nice variants from a fig friend that relocated. He gave some to a few of us to share.
robertharper

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Reply with quote  #13 
Pete - Both Florea and Marseilles Black VS come from Herman2, and Herman has always felt that Florea is not as good as it is in Europe, as far as flavor and taste.

So, since we have other cold hardy variants that have taste and flavor, there has been no reason to grow it here.

Bob, zone 5 Connecticut
pako

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Reply with quote  #14 

Hallo , from Sofia,Bulgaria(Europe)

I suppose that Florea and the cultivar Mitchurinska 10,very popular in Bulgaria are the same thing. Mitchurinska 10 is considered the hardiest fig by us and is most widely grown together with Brunswic.It is the only fig , that is seen north of the Balkan mountain.

I will take nice pictures this season.


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genecolin

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Reply with quote  #15 
pako, I see this is your first post and want to welcome you to the forum. It is nice to have information from across the Atlantic.
"gene"

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"gene"

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Houma, La.
Chivas

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Reply with quote  #16 
Brugmansias
Marrsellies is from a friend of his in Arkansas.

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pako

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Reply with quote  #17 
Thank you Gene , my pleaser. I am learning so match from this forum.
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Bulgaria (EU),zone 7b
timclymer

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Reply with quote  #18 
Herman, how old is the M vs B tree in the pic?  I was fortunate enough to get a few cuttings this year from some forum members and look forward to growing it here.  I've heard some great things about it.

We share a similar climate, I think it got to around the same low temp here in the winter.  I'll have to attempt growing it unprotected once it gets to be a reasonable size.

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hblta

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Reply with quote  #19 
Chivas
you have PM


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theman7676

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Reply with quote  #20 
bob - can you please advise what are the hardy variants you have in ground?
do any manage to survive with no protection at all or minimal protection?
thank you, eli

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robertharper

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Reply with quote  #21 
Eli, most of our figs that are in ground are only three years old, and have not been old enough to winter test without winter protection.

The only other fig we have that would be old enough to test is a so called Hardy Chicago. But, I'm not positive it's Hardy Chicago. I say that because I bought it from a fellow collector and friend. It was bought at the same time he was having doubts as to whether Sal's and Hardy Chicago were the same. (They are not). at least the ones we have here.

Hardy Chicago was planted in the most favorable spot, we had. In the V of our chimney, and it has died back several times, to the ground without winter protection.

So far the only fig we would recommend for a cold area, would be Herman's Marseilles Black VS.

It maybe cold hardy down to minus 18-19 degrees Fahrenheit, once it is mature. It has proven here it can be grown with under 6 hours of sun light, and in wet ground, and still produce an acceptable fruit. Plus, it will produce a lot.

We are testing about 12 or so others, that are considered cold hardy. Such as Danny's Delight, Hardy Hartford, Ronde de Bourdeaux, Brooklyn White, Beyernfeige Violetta, Abbruzzi, Hanc's English Brown Turkey, LaRadek's English Brown Turkey, Sal's EL, and Geno's. These have been rated as cold hardy between 0 to minus 19 degrees. But, we have not tested anything more then we have Marseilles Black, so far. So I would only recommend Marseilles Black as being cold hardy, from our testing. But, of course those rating are conditional.

However, Paul Tracesky did test about 30 miles north of us, Sal's EL for about 15 years. Although it bears late into the season, it is considered the gold standard for our area of Connecticut. I have been told that Paul use to pick them like dates late into the season. I have also been told that his winterizing consisted of simply throwing a tarp of his Sal's EL. I like the fact that they are sweet, even when picked in late October or early November. 

Bob, Zone 5 Connecticut
robertharper

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Reply with quote  #22 
Yes Gorgi, I'm sure. That is, I'm sure about the information we recovered in our research.

LaRadek Is listed by a few European growers as having survived a winter in the Czech Republic to minus 18 degrees Fahrenheit. The American mother tree of Marseilles Black VS, is in Columbia, Maryland. The weather station there listed a winter low there of between 18-19 degrees below, Fahrenheit, two to three years before Warren shared cuttings with Herman, and Warren lives in Columbia, Maryland. As to Hanc's English Brown Turkey, Miller's Nursery had it listed as being able to grow into zone 4b, with winter protection., when they were selling it. (They have since lost the variant that they sold to Hanc.

The rest, such as Danny's Delight originated in a zone 6a/5b part of Michigan. Or the originators/finders classify it as cold hardy for them. Hardy Hartford has been growing in Hartford for over thirty years without winter protection. Although it is planted were it is protected from winter winds. Hartford is a zone 6b. I don't think Hardy Hartford is a cold hardy enough for our zone 5, without some sort of winter protection, from the wind.

As an  experienced fig grower your self, you know that cold winter hardiness is conditional. The figs age before it is exposed to the cold? Whether the it is grown in dry spot or wet spot. Was it allowed to reach maturity before being left exposed to winter cold. Was the new growth, and number of fruits controlled before winter set in.

Although all of the figs being tested by us are considered winter hardy, to a certain point, they cannot be grown like a newly planted apple or pear tree, and left on their own. We had nothing but failure after failure when we first tried to grow figs here. It took a lot or reading, research, talking to other fig growers, before we started getting figs not to die to the ground, and fruit for us.

So, I don't think any one who does not understand that a fig is a fig, and not an apple or pear tree, will not be able to grow figs in a cold winter area of the country. Even so called cold hardy figs are still figs. They do not become hardy until the are mature. (Three to seven years)? They do not like winter wind. They do not like cold wet ground.  Their growth has to be controlled. There crops have to be controlled. 

I don't suggest even cold hardy figs to the casual grower.If your not willing to learn what the fig needs, and willing to look after it. Then one should not waste ones money.

I hope that clarifies better the label. "Cold Hardy", and what we are doing here

Bob, zone 5 Connecticut
gorgi

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Reply with quote  #23 
WOW!

>>> minus 18-19 degrees Fahrenheit

That equals minus 28* C (think Alaska weather)!

I am very impressed.

Thanks.

[Edit: May further ask:
were these obsevations made in USA CT, or somewhere else?}


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Reply with quote  #24 
Herman is corrrect. He shared this fig with me and I have been sharing it with fig friends in Canada and sometimes to US friends (sharing it as "Marseilles VS Black"). I believe I shared it with Michal of Montreal (now in Europe) who cooperated with the Canadian retailer mentioned above.
Thanks Herman once more. I also thank Herman when they start ripening.

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noss

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Reply with quote  #25 
How do those cold-hardy figs do in the deep South, such as here?

Thanks,

noss

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noss/a.k.a. Vivian Lafayette, LA Zone 9a Wish List: Col de Dame Blanc, Col de Dame Noir, Scott's Yellow, Tony's Brown Italian, any other fig that is good in the rain/humidity and has a real figgy flavor.
GregMartin

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pako

Hallo , from Sofia,Bulgaria(Europe)

I suppose that Florea and the cultivar Mitchurinska 10,very popular in Bulgaria are the same thing. Mitchurinska 10 is considered the hardiest fig by us and is most widely grown together with Brunswic.It is the only fig , that is seen north of the Balkan mountain.

I will take nice pictures this season.



Pako,
Is this the same 'Mitchurinska 10' that you have posted about?
http://forum.palmi.bg/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287


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Seeking: Saint Martin, Naples White, Black Tuscan, Bécane, French Alps, Abruzzi, Tenica, Wild Mountain Figs from the coldest corners  (Iranian, Turkish or other...would love seeds too)
pako

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Reply with quote  #27 
Hi Greg,
Yes ,this is Mitchurinska 10.
You can see also this:
http://forum.palmi.bg/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=331

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