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greg88

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 

Ok, I don't hang out on GW much and am not very good at searches there.

I have 2 valuable scion pieces that I acquired and want to maximize my chances for success with them and thought about grafting as a way to have more chances.  i have shaky results with rooting scion when it comes to the up-potting step.

The scion is dormant, can I use the "T graft" technique?

looking for suggestions. I plan on taking one of the scion and cutting in half for two rooting opportunities but am thinking about trying multiple grafts with the other one (once my strong growing MB VS is going good this spring).

Thoughts?  Ideas?  Suggestions?  From our experts??
Can respond here, PM or email
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Greg North West Arkanasas Zone 6b
Wish list: any SPECTACULAR cold hardy figs, and/or perhaps a Niagra Bl., Laradek EBT, Kathleen's Bl, Hunt, a great UNK or anything anyone wants me to have???
javajunkie

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
I am anxious to hear the answers you get Greg, I too have some I would like to do but I'm a little terrified!
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lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Greg,

The timing seems to be  just right in your zone to try the cleft graft described on this video
(no spitting!) .. The guy gives his best describing what he is doing and I hope you understand what he says. .. but it is very simple... Grasa, do you agree ?
you may try a bark graft.. The fellow on the video should be using rather diff tools, but he knows his business and I believe he will make it"



You may keep some buds in the fridge for the 'T' graft later in April/May when leaves shoot out

http://www.jardin-mundani.com/empelts/INJERTOS.htm
This next link is also very instructive..
The name of the game is to keep trying and exercising.. it's fun

Francisco
brackishfigger

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
I am becoming somewhat experienced in fig grafting.  Find my frankenfig thread. 

My experience is that timing is important.  I am just starting to graft here in south LA and the bark of the root stock is slipping nicely.  The scion are all refrigerated. 

I have best luck with bark, tongue/whip, and chip grafts.  None of my t-bark grafts took. 

I encourage you to give it a try, I think the success rate will beat that of rooting, IME.  Don't be afraid to leave some cuttings in the fridge to try again later if unsuccessful.

Good luck, and post pics!
snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
I might try this.  BUt one question I have is, when does the bags (plastic and paper) come off?
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Dennis
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brackishfigger

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
last year I first used a mail-sized rubber band to secure each graft, covered it in grafting wax, and used parafin tape over that. 

While a great seal, I found the rubberband dissintigrated pretty quickly in the sun, breaking, and pulling apart the water tight seal I had created.  I would then pull it all of and re-cover with wax.   Lotta work/time.

THis year I have invested in ten rolls of the parafin tape, and I have been generously taping first, then rubberbanding, no wax.  It certainly goes more quickly for each graft! 

It isn't too hot here yet, but aluminum foil sun shades worked for me later in the year last year. 

I'm guessing the bags are for sun protection as well as moisture sealing, and may well be as effective despite its low-techness.  If the bags aren't tied too tghtly, or are sealed with rubberbands on either end to allow for some limb growth, they needn't be removed at all (unless they cover the entire scion, and then I'd remove when leaves start to show, leaving the graft itself covered still. . . ).

I have had a ball with my grafting tree.  I'll have over 30 varieties on it by the time I'm done with it this spring, if they all take.
DesertDance

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Nice video!  Wish I could understand what he said.  Is that some kind of cellophane or plastic tape?  I don't think he removes that orange tape for a year or so, because some had already grown for a year, and the tape was still on.  I wish my trees were still dormant, but none are, so I'll try this next year for sure!

I lost so many cuttings to fungus gnats, I'd love to graft them, grow them out, air layer them, and have a more successful journey!

Thanks for posting this!

Suzi
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greg88

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Thanks for the replies so far.
All are appreciated.
Francisco, I hope you were joking on understadning him.  Could not understand a word but a  good demonstration anyway.

Brackish, looks like i may need to wait a week or two.  I remember your frankefig thread and will look it up.
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Greg North West Arkanasas Zone 6b
Wish list: any SPECTACULAR cold hardy figs, and/or perhaps a Niagra Bl., Laradek EBT, Kathleen's Bl, Hunt, a great UNK or anything anyone wants me to have???
Grasa

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
His technique seems so unsanitized, but still works. recycling plastic bags is my method also. I love the video, I hope Mimi sees this one as I am talking her into grafting new varities onto her tree.
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Grasa
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armando93223

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Greg, tried to upload to this question, but it was blocking my photos from uploading....?????   So I added a new topic.
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james

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
My advice... Do not learn with your prized possessions.  My first time I went 0 for 10.  If you have trees large enough to take extra wood from, practice with it.  Take some wood off and graft it onto another part of the tree. 
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lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Greg, sorry for that suggestion but my fault can be quickly repaired and in the correct language.

See the attachment, which is part of a chapter on fig grafting techniques written by one of 'fig founding fathers', Dr. Ira J, Condit in his Circular Letter nr 77 of the California Agricultural Extension Service on October 1933. It is well explained and simply documented.

The fellow on the video clip ,in his language, was more or less telling exactly that.
On those remote years there were no 'plastic bags' so they had to go with the wax or in this example an asphaltic emulsion, we call it here  'Norwegian tar'.

If you like you may use the para films, bands, plastics, etc.. but my grand dad used a home made wax made of a brick of bee wax plus some other stuff and when grafting ha had to keep it warm for best results. That emulsion is also very effective and may not even need anything else once it cools down and solidifies. the tops of the scions are cut and waxed as well

Dennis, I think that if done properly and in the right season approx 3 to 4 weeks after the graft is done you mat take the 'plastic' away, but best is..no hurry, give it at least a month just in case.

Suzi, Condit explains it in a very simple manner, and on this particular method you may not use any film, plastic, rubber band ...at all. The cleft shall be exerting rather strong pressure on the scions, warranting firm and permanent contact between cambiums of 'stock and scion' that no additional clipping is necessary...effective sealing with wax or emulsion is mandatory.

Do not give up, many people prefer the spring grafting 'chip' , 'patch', etc.. and these are also simple and can be done up to August, ideally May.

When reading the circular copies start reading  on page 36.
Happy graftings
Francisco

 
Attached Files
pdf Condit_cleft_graft.pdf (632.57 KB, 37 views)
DesertDance

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
James, you are right!  Best to practice first with a tree or two that you own and is big enough to sacrifice a few cuttings for practice purposes.

I guess there are different methods for different stages of growth.  The first video grafting was done on dormant trees, and I did note the unsanitary conditions along with Grasa, but he is "Old country," and they don't care about that stuff.  What they do works.  PERIOD!  I also noted he only used tip cuttings.

The second method posted by Armando was apparently with green growth and sap flowing.

I don't want a Frankenfig like brackishfigger has, although his is a wonderful tree and it's admirably unique, but my main purpose is to skip the rooting of cuttings, go straight to grafting and skip that whole mess of fungus gnats.  Once the branch grows large and strong, I will do an air-layer above the graft for a specific varietal tree which can be planted in-ground for maximum fig production.

That's just me...  I hope this dormant grafting works, because I have several in-ground trees on which to try it next year.  I will try a cutting of my own, and one each of new ones I acquire.  NO MORE SPHAGNUM MOSS! NO MORE LITTLE CUPS LITTERING THE COUNTERS!  NO MORE FUNGUS GNATS!

Grafting when the sap flows is a different ball game.  But I may try that also.

Suzi
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recomer20

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Greg88, the main problem (reportedly) with T-graft during the dormant stage was the receiving wood (rootstock) bark was too brittle to peel back without making a mess of things. It was recommended to use the T-graft later in season when the bark is actively growing and pliable...made it much easier to insert the donor bud into the T-cut.
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greg88

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Thanks for all the thoughts!
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Greg North West Arkanasas Zone 6b
Wish list: any SPECTACULAR cold hardy figs, and/or perhaps a Niagra Bl., Laradek EBT, Kathleen's Bl, Hunt, a great UNK or anything anyone wants me to have???
pitangadiego

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
You can use most any grafting technique, T-bud, Chip Bud, wedge, etc. As with all grafting, aligning the cambium (green) layer.

The bags, or whatever, are used to shield the scion from the sun. If it is in full sun, it will dry out and/or get cooked BEFORE it has a chance to heal together with the rootstock, because it has no source of additional moisture. I just cover mine with white paper (used computer paper, old envelopes, or junk mail work well).

Read up on grafting. With few exceptions (where environmental conditions are critical, or the healing of the graft union is very slow, or there is some degree of incompatibility), for the most part, grafting is grafting regardless of the plant material involved. Same techniques, same issues, same solutions, same problems. (I know that is somewhat oversimplified.) Some things are more difficult, or have greater failure rates, but figs are not one of them.
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oldvt

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Hi, I did 9 bud grafts on march first,all but one graft the buds have began to swell.Bud grafts are fast and easy and have good results.Rex.
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blueboy1977

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
I also did a few more bud/T grafts this morning. My success rate rooting the figs was 100%. After cupping up only 6 have made it to 1 gallon pots and I started around 30 cuttings. If the grafting works Im going that route from now on. To much hassel rooting and growing, at least in the spring its a hassel. No problems with fall rooting/growing.
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oldvt

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
If you get the fig cuttings into cups LET THEM GET ROOT BOUND before you pot up.IfI can get a fig cutting growing in a cup I have never lost one potting up to 1 gal,also dont over water. Rex.
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