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ADelmanto

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Reply with quote  #1 
I buy, sell, and trade figs. Many people here do the same. I propose we have a standard policy that if a variety is not true to name the seller should make that transaction right. I am only able to do what I do based on the word of people before me. If I say that my variety is "X" it's only because someone else told me it was.
I do my due diligence, I research the leaf and fruit to try to make sure everything is correct, but we are all human. People make mistakes. This will force me and whoever will also offer this to keep better records and put our money where our mouth is. I will put this out there as "the buck stops here" policy.

So here is a policy that I will implement for myself, if anyone has any input THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL please chime in.

A 200% Guarantee. If you can PROVE that a variety that you got from me is not true to name, send it back to me. I will pay for the shipping, and either reimburse you for twice the money (value) or offer you another 2 choices of figs with a similar value. I will pay return shipping.

I cannot do a DNA test on every fig in my collection, but I have a small but growing reputation to protect. This is my way of saying I will stand by my product and if it's not right, I'll make it right. Look for this guarantee on my trades and sales and buy or trade with confidence.

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bullet08

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Reply with quote  #2 
that's why i do not sell things nor deal with money. i only trade or give away cuttings that i have grown myself. i don't care for flipping cuttings or plants. and if reputable forum member makes mistake, it happens. 
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Pete
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***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
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Reply with quote  #3 
I am with Pete! I got some seeds on Ebay and none ever sprouted! Frustrating indeed. I lost so many precious cuttings of figs; Not fun!
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Grasa
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Reply with quote  #4 
Pete I think you hit it on the head.
People make mistakes and members are only going with other members are going with
as to what is the variety of fig that they have.

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Mario
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Reply with quote  #5 
As a business person I see your point and understand what you are trying to do and I admire it. Figs are a hobby for me and I have only been willing to trade or give for that reason. I do buy some of my cuttings but I tend to be a PollyAnna and think most people are honest...
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ADelmanto

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Reply with quote  #6 
Simply offering a 1 for 1 replacement isn't much of a guarantee. It doesn't seem to go far enough to ensure that a variety is true to name. It does not shift responsibility to the trader. It does not stop someone from perpetuation the same careless actions. People are often nervous to trade because they are not sure if the variety they will be getting will be true to name. Well, for me they can feel secure.
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bullet08

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Reply with quote  #7 
i'm never nervous to trade knowing who i'm trading with. if i made trade with someone new and if it falls short, i just won't trade with that person again.

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Pete
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"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
ascpete

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Reply with quote  #8 
ADelmanto,
IMO, the standard policy should be that before you start trading and selling, you should have grown the cultivar and produced at least 1 harvest, with photos to confirm the named cultivar. Several forum members have done this simple procedure for years without DNA testing or excessive guarantees.

BTW, I purchased five (5) fig trees from a very reputable nursery last year, 2 of the 5 I suspected of being mislabeled. When they produced figs this year, it was extremely easy to place the proper names on the mislabeled trees.

Good Luck.
FiggyFrank

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascpete
ADelmanto,
IMO, the standard policy should be that before you start trading and selling, you should have grown the cultivar and produced at least 1 harvest, with photos to confirm the named cultivar. Several forum members have done this simple procedure for years without DNA testing or excessive guarantees. Good Luck.


I was just about to suggest this. 
All you can do is be completely honest with what you're selling.  If you aren't 100% sure it's a known variety, state it up front.  At that point, it's the buyer's choice to take a chance on it, but should also be encouraged to the buyer not to advertise it as a known variety if they intend to distribute it in the future.  Still a touchy subject.

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Reply with quote  #10 
 Sometime if you put unknown in front of it people will pay more and want it more. Just saying-----

Richard
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Reply with quote  #11 
It takes too many YEARS before the buyer figures out he didn't get what he bargained for.
How does he "PROVE" he got a wooden nickel?!? 
It's illogical for the seller to make it right. HOW?!?  
This is why I only pass along scions from my own mature trees.
 

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pitangadiego

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Reply with quote  #12 
I hate to be late to the party, but I have many varieties, and if they fruited for 10 years would be hard to prove if they were what they were "supposed" to be.

First you need a confirmed, guaranteed plant from which to make standardized pictures to measure everything else by. And then you need to verify the pictures by growing them under a variety of conditions, so that you know your standard is stable across soil, climate, fertilizer, etc. And then everyone has to agree that that is, in fact, what you say it is and that it is now the official standard.

Have done enough cross climate tests to know that you have little to no chance of success, even on the climate tests.

I accept cuttings at face value, grow them out, fruit them, and post the pix at Figs 4 Fun. When I sell a cuttings, it is based solely on the premise that the pix represent what the cuttings will produce and with the proviso that "your results may vary" for dozens of different reasons. No intention to defraud, but no way to guarantee anything, with the possible exception of Panache.

As a small example, anyone have a definitive standard photo of the 100+ Belle Clare varieties? Any know what a true "Fico Nera Paese" Looks like? A "Fico Bianco Fioroni"?

Or see Laverne Nursery and check out the "Black Jack" which uses an unmistakable "Black Madeira" pix taken by moi. And the pix on the individual page is a pix of a Black Jack from the Figs 4 Fun Collection, as well, and is not of any fruit from any of their trees.

Don't know what the answer is, but don't expect to find it in my lifetime. We all have to suck it up and live with the mess that is the world of figs.



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hungryjack

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Reply with quote  #13 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADelmanto
Simply offering a 1 for 1 replacement isn't much of a guarantee. It doesn't seem to go far enough to ensure that a variety is true to name. It does not shift responsibility to the trader. It does not stop someone from perpetuation the same careless actions. People are often nervous to trade because they are not sure if the variety they will be getting will be true to name. Well, for me they can feel secure.


How does a 100% or 200% or 1000% guarantee do anything
to actually assure a variety is true to name ?
The amount of a refund has no bearing on that situation actually,
other than a selling point to a consumer.

How can a seller be sure of what they are selling,
when they have never actually grown out what is being sold
and just trading and reselling what was acquired from others only recently ?

---------------------------------

Jon,  I have all the photos that were taken by the owners over the years.
There are over 1000 photos, many are labled on the back.
So, quite possibly I have pictures of many of those varieties.
I've only taken a casual glance at the photos, not enough time to catalog them.
I also have the sales records, so I know where many went as well,
probably most are long gone by today.
I know one of the biggest BC collections that existed, essentially 100% complete,
it all perished in a severe cold event a few years ago, only 4 or 5 trees survived.

 


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Reply with quote  #14 
Hi Adelmanto,
How would you mark your material ? If you send a buyer a cutting and "unluckily" he does a swap... He still can blame you ...
How about varieties that need some time and sun to ripen and your buyer is in a zone, this will never happen ?

And just to stop talking about theory, let's be practical.
A friend exchanged small figtrees with two other guys - you how we guys are: I have the biggest, the tallest, the strongest ... - . He planted the small trees 30 kilometers away from the town we both live in at a friend garden.
The two trees he got are supposed to be keepers ... When he gets tired of my remarks, he always tell me, that a day he will show me the mother trees ... Well I'm still waiting ...
Well for 10 years, the friend has never seen the color of a fig, nor the color of a ripe fig .
Who is to blame ?
For me, the third one that never waters the trees is to blame and not to help, the local climate he lives in / just to laugh: His wife is to blame, she chose the site for the house :) .
The fig growing season at that village is a month shorter - starting 2 weeks later and stopping two weeks before . I'm sure of that because I tried growing tomatoes, and then I figured that out .
A good advice: If you want to check your location for figs inground, do it with tomatoes ...
After 10 years, we still have no idea what those bloody strains are .
So two years ago, I took cuttings to my garden. The siblings are growing good and perhaps next year we'll know.
So Adelmanto, would you still send the money back ? Would you like me to send you a 50 to 100 kilograms package (for the tree back option) ?

I don't even talk about getting fruits true to type. I would have some more stories, but I'll let space for others to express them selves as well :)

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ADelmanto

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Reply with quote  #15 
I suppose what I am trying to prevent is the wreckless and rampant knowingly passing along "brown turkey's" as "Maltese Falcons." A tree that never fruits or dies short after being planted would not qualify under my idea of a guarantee. It would take just a season or two to tell the difference between many varieties. It is not a perfect system, agreed, but I would assert it's a step in the right direction. "Buyer Beware" is not a good way to be for anyone. What else can I do besides do my homework, keep accurate records, and be honest. If 200% is too much, or not a good system, give me another suggestion. I'm looking for a universal standard that we could all abide by. One that is understood and can be accepted. If it's simply a replacement guarantee, well that's something. I think most people do that anyway, but is it the standard?
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Reply with quote  #16 
ADelmanto,
As far as I can tell there are no "Standard Guarantees" applied to Fig cultivar sales. Its actually up to the Individuals to police their own. IMO more of the unscrupulous actions are perpetrated by sellers and vendors, than by Hobbyists that are trading fig cultivars.

Your idea would not work because the sellers would not agree with the "Guarantee". Most forum members that sell develop a reputation as "Trusted Vendors" as does the Nurseries that many forum members frequent. If you are diligent, you should attain that status without needing to create a "Fig Guarantee".
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Reply with quote  #17 
In my limited experience I have seen a VERY wide difference between figs produced by trees that are exactly the same genetic material; i.e. a cutting raised tree with fruit very different from the original. How could you ever explain that to a disgruntled customer?
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Reply with quote  #18 
 I guess I'd be a little disappointed if I had purchased a BM and did not get what I purchased  and you would hope that it is a least similar to what you purchased, but  I would be just as happy if I got a variety that tastes just as good.  Me personally, I'm looking for great tasting figs that are highly productive and that require the least  amount of maintenance on my part.  
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ADelmanto

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Reply with quote  #19 
There will always be disgruntled consumers. WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THEM??? For me, the "customer" is always right. That is the risk I take by trading. To trade or sell and accept NO responsibility is wrong. Even if you are 100% sure it is true to name, you take it back and make it right. It's what you do. That is what I'm saying. No arguing, no public trashing, just do the right thing. (Even if they are wrong).
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Scarecrow_Sun_God

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Reply with quote  #20 
Over the years I have bought many items thru repeatable sites and people.  I'm with Pete on this, people make mistakes and  you cannot make everyone happy.  Some mistakes are a little harder to deal with, I purchased a almond  tree once from a repeatable garden site and it turned out to be a flowering peach and that would have been forgivable had it not been for the fact that all of there items were incorrect or not true to form.  The best approach is an honest barter.  Let someone know what you have to offer and be as honest as you can about it.
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Reply with quote  #21 

While I applaud the thought, I don't know an un-enforceable rule set would matter. Those that care will always try their best to represent, and the small number that chooses to deceive will do so anyway. What I would like to see stopped is the labeling of unknowns without a UNK or unknown in the tittle. In my book except in a few instances once an unknown always an unknown. I really don’t care whether it’s someone like Jon or Vasille at a high level of knowledge or my ignorant self stating what they think it might be. Unless the origin of the plant later shows identify it should always remain an unknown. I have seen folks ask for an opinion and then label that plant. One classic example is someone asking about a plant that was labeled wrong from a nursery, and somewhere along the way VDB was speculated. That nursery has never carried VDB, but that member seems very proud of that fig and seems to have distributed it around. Maybe a good fig, but should have never carried a label without a UNK in the name to me.   Many of you will disagree and state that’s how we end up with so many names for the same fig and that bothers me as well and I understand but I would rather try to maintain a list of or very similar figs that likely are the same.

I have shared cuttings prior to ever having the plant fruit. Maybe I need to re-think that, but I do like to share with others and often there are cuttings available before fruiting. I do have records  where I obtained each plant, and provide that info when I share material, but that might get more complicated when I have sourced a cultivar from more than one source.  To this point I have never charged for any plant material be it fig or anything else, and I doubt I ever will as this is hobby for me and then it becomes more business, but I will never say never and sure don’t object paying for things or those that do profit or at least try to break even. I appreciate the effort some folks have went to make new cultivars available. One of my worst fears is finding I have distributed something wrongly labeled even if I gifted the material.


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Reply with quote  #22 
Some sellers are selling based on the information  as it was provided to them,  I purchased 2 fig plants from Lowes at different times that were  both identified as Brown Turkey, It is obvious that they are different plants,  but that is how they have been listed and if I did not have the other to compare with I would have listed both as Brown Turkey in my dealings with others.
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ADelmanto

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Reply with quote  #23 
Honest people will be honest and dishonest people will be dishonest. I think what I'm trying to do is to make good people be a little more careful about what they distribute. Scarecrow brings up a good point. Taking a plant at face value is not enough. "Trust, but verify". Do your homework as best you can, double check, keep good records. If everything checks out, then trade away. When an honest mistake does happen, be willing to make right. I guess that's all I'm saying.
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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmercieca
Scarecrow_Sun_God - all figs are unknowns at one time or another, and what if some country or Island has six different varieties with the same name, eventually naming them makes things less confusing when the odds of it existing anywhere else in the world are very low. Lets not forget that only about 6 years ago it was much harder than it is now to research different fig varieties, there was a time most people thought a fig was a fig, did not know there was much if any different varieties, these days there are still a lot of people that do not know. Now that it is much easier to compare it is best to name them, that would make DNA testing way more simple too. I'd say if no one identifies a fig tree as existing anywhere else in 10 - 15 years then name it


I agree with your view point, but I tend to agree more with  pitangadiego.  I would sooner leave the naming to the experts.   They say a picture is worth a  thousand words,  In my dealings I plan on taking  pictures of the varieties and its fruit and  pass along any information as it was relayed to me.  I can only go by what I have been told,  that is my only guarantee.

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ADelmanto

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Reply with quote  #25 
Scarecrow if you traded a fig with me and 2-3 years later I said, hey this is not correct. What would you do? (I'm not picking on you just throwing out a hypothetical.).

Let me ask that question to everyone. What would you do? (Let's assume I was promised a dark fig and I got a light one, to keep it pretty simple).

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Scarecrow_Sun_God

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADelmanto
Scarecrow if you traded a fig with me and 2-3 years later I said, hey this is not correct. What would you do? (I'm not picking on you just throwing out a hypothetical.). Let me ask that question to everyone. What would you do? (Let's assume I was promised a dark fig and I got a light one, to keep it pretty simple).


As long as it was not a variety that I had I would be just fine but would be interested in knowing  variety to pass along to others.  But using your same hypothetical question, What if I said that the cutting was not what you said after I obtained a plant from your cutting just to have you mail me another fig variety as you  propose?

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hungryjack

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Reply with quote  #27 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADelmanto
Taking a plant at face value is not enough. "Trust, but verify". Do your homework as best you can, double check, keep good records. If everything checks out, then trade away. When an honest mistake does happen, be willing to make right. I guess that's all I'm saying.


How do you "check out" your inventory
when you haven't even grown them out to fruiting ?
What kind of verification or homework is that.

You've been in the fig game for less than one year,
you haven't fruited a cutting yet, and you are selling and trading already.
You started selling fig plants on this site less than 4 months after you acquired your
very first fig cutting.   A bit early by anyones standards to have any experience with the fruit,
but off you go selling and now looking to create standards to justify your newly found business.

Essentially you have accepted all your stock at face value,
since you haven't verified anything by growing it out for a few years.
The same stock you are now trading and selling.

You don't see this as potentially compounding the problem ?
Assuming you are the most honest person in the world,
that does not matter,
as you have not vetted what you are growing, but distributing anyway.


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rafed

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Reply with quote  #28 
I remember a couple years ago there was a discussion about buying, selling, naming etc.etc.
The topic turned into a heated argument.

It was the oldies against the newbies.

The newbies were determined to prove us wrong. We were called "BULLIES" when we were simply trying to educate them.
Against the warnings and advice some proceeded to purchase some said fig material on eBay. Because they were not going be told what to do!

Not long after, I say maybe five or six months later one of those newbies came here in this forum and admitted he/she was stiffed on a eBay transaction and it was during the time of the argument.
The person ( the victim ) he/she admitted the purchase was mostly motivated on the part of going against us ( senior members ).

For the life of me I cannot not remember who or what topic it was.

As for the fig naming ( at will ), that's been a thorn on my rear.
There was a recent discussion about this topic not long ago as well. It was a "somewhat newbie" posting about naming a fig.
I commented on it and explained to not add to the fig naming confusion. I told the person he needs to take the time and research and try to find the identity. The name was eventually tweeked just a bit. But it was obvious the source was determined to use the " fancy" name he had chosen.

As for honesty and integrity,
My problem is with those who join this forum today and sell on eBay the next day and say they are members of this forum. Does this make them legitimate sellers? Not in my book.

Adelmanto,
It looks like you are trying to cover all your bases and I appreciate that. Now matter what you do, you are never going to be perfect. There is always going to be someone that is not going to be satisfied. And mistakes will be made. It's how you handle it if or when it ever happens. Every case or transaction is different and will be handled differently.

All I can say is do your best that you can do to be that good seller.

Good luck
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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADelmanto
Scarecrow if you traded a fig with me and 2-3 years later I said, hey this is not correct. What would you do? (I'm not picking on you just throwing out a hypothetical.). Let me ask that question to everyone. What would you do? (Let's assume I was promised a dark fig and I got a light one, to keep it pretty simple).


I think I would be more concerned it I got the variety that I wanted and it was packaged poorly  with little attention to care.  We must remember that there are no guarantees when it comes to cuttings we just provide the best service and information that we can.

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ascpete

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Reply with quote  #30 
ADelmanto,
To answer your Hypothetical question...
Quote:
Scarecrow if you traded a fig with me and 2-3 years later I said, hey this is not correct. What would you do? (I'm not picking on you just throwing out a hypothetical.). Let me ask that question to everyone. What would you do? (Let's assume I was promised a dark fig and I got a light one, to keep it pretty simple).

If I traded, I would have had documentation of leaves and figs that were produced in my yard... If the cuttings did not resemble those, I personally would send a replacement plant, but 2-3 years is a long time to require a "guarantee" for traded cuttings. Its up to the individual and the trading partners on their personal trade agreements.

<edit> How would you handle this situation if it was cuttings that you had resold?...

A simple example why pictures are important is the Cultivar listed as "Golden Celeste" on the Encanto farms Varieties pages and at UC Davis. It could be confused (and was in a few posts) with the LSU Golden Celeste aka Champagne. The newly posted pictures (of LSU Golden Celeste) still show them as different cultivars, even though they are now listed as synonymous. There may be many variables and difference that develop but a few simple documented pictures make a big difference for doing simple comparisons, even in the first year. BTW, I am currently growing both cultivars...


Rafed,
I believe that the Topic was Ronde De Bordeaux Not....and its been deleted.
BuzzardsBayFigs

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Reply with quote  #31 
 I'm 100% with strudeidog on this, "Unknown always an Unknown". Just like artworks you need a providence to prove it is what is and that can be almost impossible.
 When I buy a unknown it gets marked unknown and that is part of the fun of this hobby! 

 Remember this is " Figs 4 FUN " not for Profit !
 Remember Jon posted this is now a nonprofit site.

 Richard
 Zone 6a MA. with Greenhouse
oldvt

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Reply with quote  #32 
I go by a few rules, if I trade or sell a fig I am sure of the source, If not sure of who I bought the fig from I dont trade it.If I am unsure on a tag I mark it unknown. I hope anyone who trades with me would let me know if there unhappy with the trade and let me have a chance of fixing it.Rex.
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Reply with quote  #33 
ascpete,

Thanks! That was it! You do remember how that went?

ascpete

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Reply with quote  #34 
Rafed,
You're welcome. I do remember, I posted to the Topic.

<edit>
Strudeldog,
"Its water under the bridge". but you are correct in your recollection.

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Reply with quote  #35 
Pete,

As I recall that the seller now admits the RDB was not RDB, but was NOT making right with those He sold to correct? A perfect example of why folks should not jump right into selling cuttings prior to gaining some knowledge. He was quite arrogant when given good advise, and while he seems to regret it now, every purchase should have been refunded 100%.   If I am wrong in statement please correct me, with the thread gone it's hard to be accurate.

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Reply with quote  #36 
All points well taken. I started with figs less than 1 year ago, true. I collected about 200 cuttings off of 1 huge fig tree. Half of them I cooked, the other half did very well. Many of those I traded under the name Unknown 'Sorrento'. I got the bug and am now up to 110 or so varieties. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers I'm just aware that there can be so much confusion that there should be some kind of recourse or remedy that is universally understood that we could all say is the standard should something happen. If it is agreed that it is solely between the two parties than so be it. Going forward I think we all know where I stand. I will do my very best to only trade in true to name varieties (or unknowns with full disclosure.) should anything ever get mixed up, I will do my best to make it right.

BTW I do learn from my mistakes, I truly appreciate this forum.

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Reply with quote  #37 
If all of the aforementioned isn't enough to give you a headache, you can always take it a step further and beat the horse that's been beaten a thousand times by adding FMV/FMV-free into the mix.   Yikes!

I have to believe that in a general economic sense, businesses that make a living off of scamming people don't last very long because the demand quickly dries up as the buyers become privy to the unscrupulous seller and share info with each other.  So simple supply and demand should solve the problem over time, with the exception of the completely ignorant first time buyers out there who couldn't tell a celeste from a VdB anyways.  For them, they want to buy a fig and I guess they got a fig, even if knowlingly or semi-knowingly mislabeled.  If they're trying to buy a proven great fig like RdB and they pay up for it, hopefully the buyer willing to pay up knows their risks.  Otherwise they have no business buying expensive figs.  When I traded for Black Madeira recently with an unknown person, I asked questions as best I could and took a chance.  If I was paying, it would have been a different story probably.

In the end, I think it all shakes out in the wash.  Even if an occassional mistake is made, as long as a seller is honest, there's some level of taking someone at their word that happens in this trade.  It's when they intentionally lie that I have a problem with.  Like saying you're going to mail cuttings in a trade and never sending anything.  But if say I get a cutting of "ABC Fig" from John Doe and grow it and then before having fruit, I trade cuttings from my "ABC Fig" to Jane Doe as what I was told it was, but it turns out it's really not that fig, I wasn't intentionally trying to deceive her.  And when she discovers its not, I can say I got it form John Doe.  But the reality is, John Doe could have thought it was ABC Fig too because he got it from someone as that.  So no one in this equation was in the wrong, it's just a byproduct of collecting a plant that takes years to verify its identity.

However, if you have reason not to trust your source then that should be part of full disclosure or the cuttings not traded/sold at all until verified.

If you have pics and other proof, etc.  that helps.  But if I demand that every time I buy that's my choice if I wanna take the risk.  Usually that risk is baked into the price.  Well known sellers get a higher premium on ebay, etc.

When you take risks, sometimes you get burned and sometimes you get lucky!

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Reply with quote  #38 
Timothy,
in your example...
Quote:
But if say I get a cutting of "ABC Fig" from John Doe and grow it and then before having fruit, I trade cuttings from my "ABC Fig" to Jane Doe as what I was told it was, but it turns out it's really not that fig, I wasn't intentionally trying to deceive her.  And when she discovers its not, I can say I got it form John Doe
IMO, you actually would be perpetuating the "wrong". If you had waited until harvesting a few figs, you could have eliminated the problem. and Jane Doe would not be wasting her time on the wrong cultivar no matter how good it may be.

As a hobbyist, I'm making simple documentation of all the fig cultivars in my care, whether I decide to trade them or not. If the decision is to actively trade and or sell named cultivars, I would hope that a little diligence would be observed.
timmy2green

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Reply with quote  #39 
Pete, I agree with diligence, hence why I said "However, if you have reason not to trust your source then that should be part of full disclosure or the cuttings not traded/sold at all until verified."  Does that mean if I get something from you and you have pics and everything, or any other well known member, that I shouldn't feel safe trading cuttings until I personally have fruit verification?  Does everyone follow this methodology here at the forum?  I guess I'm distinguishing between perceived reliable sources and relatively unproven sources.
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Reply with quote  #40 
This subject can be looked at from several point of views and we can justify our actions in several ways, making us feel like we're not responsible for the outcome of cuttings we sell/trade.  Most of us mean well, but if you have a questionably known variety that is worth lots of money, and you wish to sell/trade it, the seller should not value it as the authentic variety and leave it labeled as unknown, backed up with ACTUAL fruit/leaf pictures that the seller took.  Having said that, sellers have the power to ask any price they wish, but it's the buyer's responsibility to know what risks come with the money they're spending.  Ask questions.
Truth of the matter is, as mentioned several times, it's impossible to keep track of the known varieties once it leaves credible hands.  Mistakes happen, and you may accidentally switch a tag, and you then share it with the world thinking it's xxxxx variety.  Every one makes mistakes and it's best to deal with known reputable sellers.  I myself sell/trade but I only have one mature variety right now.  It's impossible for me to send a wrong variety at this point.  Now in a few years, I'll have to be extra careful to keep track of the other trees I'm growing before sharing it if I care about my reputation with this forum.
Also, for the ones that intentionally mislead the good folks, just remember karma will make its way around.  TREAT AS YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.

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Reply with quote  #41 
Timothy,
Whether the cuttings came from a trusted source or not, diligence on your part is a small burden to successfully perpetuate this hobby and be able to trade "named" cuttings.
To answer your question...Yes, to be completely confident of your trade, you should wait to trade or at least disclose that the cuttings do not originate from you. Accidents will happen with mislabling, and they can be addressed as they occur.
Since there is no set methodology you can create your own or follow one that has been used by other members in the past. Its up to you, as Jon V (pitangadiego) posted earlier. 
needaclone

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Reply with quote  #42 
Actually, in 10-15 years (or dare I say less) this thread may be a moot point.  We can all just use our "Home Fig DNA Testing" kits to get the DNA fingerprint of our trees/cuttings and then compare them to the Figs4Fun database to see what we have ;-)
Jim

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Reply with quote  #43 
Since no one else seems to disagree with you Pete, I assume that everyone who is trading cuttings and plants here has grown out their mother trees to fruiting stage and confirmed in every regard possible the identity of all such trade material.  I'm not going to lie, I have a hard time believing that, however, I'll honor the code of those who have been trading for years like yourself and do my best to follow this standard.  Can't say I agree with the methodology, since it unduly prohibits new growers from trading for about 3 years until they begin to get a normal harvest and then they're still limited to trading just that one variety, which likely precludes them from most possible trades.  It's the classic person that has one fig type, Celeste, and so no one wants to trade with them.  I've been there, it's not fun.  And then when they make a trade, they have to wait 3 more years to have a second possible cultivar to trade cuttings/plants from.  Within 9 years maybe they'll be up to 3 or 4 tradable cultivars.  Am I missing something or is this really what everyone does; not trading, selling, giving away, or otherwise distributing material from their plants until a given plant has fruited long enough to confirm it's identity, regardless of who or where they obtained it from?
I know I sound a little sarcastic and I'm pretty sure Pete and I are probably on the same page in most regards and just talking around each other but, maybe not?  No hard feelings either way, I just want to make sure I understand the MO.  Then I can get in line with everyone else if I'm not already.

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Reply with quote  #44 
Timothy,
There may be a misunderstanding...
There are no current standards or methodology, and there is absolutely nothing stopping you (or anyone) from trading or selling , its your choice. I was attempting to address the Opening Post of this topic (OP), and was trying to explain one method that has been used by some "Trusted Sellers" on this forum. This method would be of benefit to anyone who is looking to collect, trade or sell the "named" cultivars in addition to improving the "the mess that is the world of figs" to quote the Forum Moderator in post #13.

I am personally choosing to grow them out documenting leaves and figs and there are a few members on the site that have been doing the same.

As to being able to trade as a newbie, I started with figs in May of 2012. I was able to harvest figs from more than 12 small trees and rooted cuttings that were purchased that spring and early summer, most under $10.00 for each cultivar ( my budget was $15.00 each including shipping). This past season 2013, I was able to harvest and taste over 30 different cultivars grown in my own yard, from trees and cuttings started in 2012. BTW I do not sell and rarely trade.

There are no hard feelings because we have been having a very cordial discussion which I believe is one of the best features of this Forum. Thanks.
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Reply with quote  #45 
Are you sure you're in ny? Wow, what am I doing wrong, haha or is it what you're doing right! Glad to hear someone's having such success in the Empire State! As for the confusion, I figured I was missing something. I'll have to consider following your lead. Can't say I always tasted fruit before trading, but then again, haven't been tasting much fruit. Always tried to do my due diligence however. Gotta get some sleep now. Happy fig dreams everyone!
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Reply with quote  #46 
Thank you all for the input. I like the idea of not trading any known cultivars until personally documenting the leaf and fruit grown in my location. I believe this year I should have fruit from at least 50 named varieties. Newbies like me need to learn this lesson of patience and due dillagence. Every step taken towards clarity and conformation is a step in the right direction. Happy Figging!!!
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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmercieca
Scarecrow_Sun_God  - my point is that in 10 - 15 years plenty of experts will weigh in their opinions.  As well as people around the world who may have seen something like it locally. Forums like this does connect the entire world 



 I agree with you on this, my only point is that with out a "Gold Standard  Cutting" , "Pedigree" or some other way to document the history of the variety, all else falls apart.  I personally don't care what the variety is called as long as I know what I am getting.  I have searched the internet by variety name and have noticed several different fig variety images for the same variety.  If I could see an image  of the fruit of the variety being traded that would help me the most and documentation of it's history would not hurt.

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