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PepperMan

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Hello fellow figgers! Looking for a little advice here about the hardiness of cole de dame blanc and jh adriatic. I live in zone 6b (new jersey) I have a spot on my south facing wall where I would like to plant a high quality green fig to contrast the existing vdb. These varieties have both been getting such high reviews I was thinking of purchasing one or the other if they would survive here. The planting bed is somewhat of a microclimate as the snow melts here long before the rest of the yard and it is shielded from the north winds.
Which fig would you reccomend if any for being cold hardy?
If any of you grow both what one do you prefer to eat?
Thanks,
Chad
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I have small trees for trade starting in May! PM me if interested.
Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Chad - one thing to consider is the vigor of the plant.  JH Adriatic seems to be a better grower than CdDB for most of us anyway.  Other Col de Dames may be better growers than UCD Col de Dame blanc.  As far as cold hardiness I haven't tested them side by side in the ground but from reading other's experiences I would expect JH Adriatic to be somewhat more cold hardy.  However, if you planted a CdDB that had been grown in a container for 3+ years it might be fine when grown against a south facing wall, especially if you protect it to some degree.  Finally, there's the timing of fruit ripening - CdDB is a very late fig in our area, especially when grown in the ground.  Some years you might not get much fruit though it might start to ripen fruit earlier with age.  Bottom line - JHA is probably the better choice for the in-ground spot but consider growing CdDB in a container.
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Steve MD zone 7a
OttawanZ5

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
                                           
cole de dame and  jh adriatic
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Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Read my lips for our NJ climate,a green fig ,"No frills",is Adriatic JH.
It will compete with the best there is,in everything,Taste flavor,ability to fight our difficult climate!.
PepperMan

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
OK guys thanks for the responses. It seems that JH Adriatic may be the better choice for my climate and I am probably going to hunt a cutting of one down soon. After doing some searching on the JH I am a little confused however. From what I gathered the JH Adriatic tree is not really a Adriatic fig, or at least not a (UCD Adriatic) but was thought to be of that variety in the beginning. Please correct me if I am wrong, The fig tree I am looking for is the one that was grown in John Hoods yard than distributed to Encanto and has predominately 3 lobed leaves, rather than the (UCD Adriatic) that has FMV and larger 5 to 7 lobed leaves. Also, Am I correct in assuming that JH Adriatic most of you have and love are of the predominate 3 lobed variety that is not a true Adriatic? Sorry for all the questions but I want to make sure I'm going to get the right one.
Thanks,
Chad
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Wish List: Col de Dame Gris, Col de Dame Noir.
I have small trees for trade starting in May! PM me if interested.
rafaelissimmo

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
I agree with Rewton and Herman and can add no more to their judicious comments. The correct name is Adriatic JH and yes it was originally grown near Houston by forum member Dr Joe Hood. The name is a misnomer as it is not related to the Adriatic from UCD. This variety has become fairly easy to find. KK in NJ usually sells some in spring on ebay so be patient. The only thing you need to know is that it has truly superior flavor and is cold hardier than CdD Blanc. Cuttings are also easy to come by. My plants are quite young or I'd hook you up.
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Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Rafael - thanks for the correction.  I can never remember whether to put the JH at the beginning or at the end!
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Steve MD zone 7a
PepperMan

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Thanks for the input fellas.
If anyone wants to trade or has one to sell let me know. I might even try both and put the Adriatic JH in the ground and the CdDB in a container.
Thanks again,
Chad
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Chad
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Wish List: Col de Dame Gris, Col de Dame Noir.
I have small trees for trade starting in May! PM me if interested.
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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
PepperMan :The true Adriatic,is way inferior to Adriatic JH, in everything, health cold resistance ,vigor productivity,adaptability.
Remember:You are not going to grow them in a ideal climate,(Fresno,Ca)but a difficult one( NJ).
Adriatic JH is god sent for us in NJ,so we can have it possible to grow a white fig,that will ripe here,and be decent tasting.
 
 

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mgginva

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Chad,
If you want to try another green fig of great quality that will compete with both of these for hardiness and quality you might consider Battaglia Green.
I grow all three of these in 15 gallon containers right next to each other and all three are excellent.
So far (they are still young - 5 years or so) the Adriatic JH has been more productive then any of the 3 CdD B's I have and it is about the same as the BG.

The one thing that is different so far between the AJH and the BG is the AJH has ripened very good brebas the last 2 years. I like the flavor of the BG better but it's very close between all 3.

Below is my ripening list from this year and a few photos that are really bad. I take pictures of all my figs that ripen and this year I paid little attention to the quality of the print.

My favorite figs are the green ones with the super dark red inside that have a strong berry flavor. I pulled out the photos of a couple other varieties for you to consider. These are figs I would list along with the AJH and CdDB for flavor and pulp color. This is just FYI and I'm not suggesting you plant these instead of the 2 varieties you are currently looking at.
I am also not saying these are the best figs I grow -- only that these are very good figs that are also green with very dark red pulp.

docx Fig Ripening List 2014.docx    

Again these photos are not ones I would ever publish and were just taken to supplement my memory. The sizes are not necessarily the mean sizes of the crop last year.     
DSC_0135.jpg DSC_0144.jpg DSC_0211.jpg DSC_0277.jpg DSC_0454.jpg DSC_0486.jpg DSC_0478.jpg 
Blanch de Deux Saissons
Brooklyn White
Ischia Green
CdD B
AJH
Battaglia Green

I think any of these varieties should be considered excellent and all are certainly on my must have "keepers" list.
mgg

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Michael in Virginia (zone 7a) Wish list:   Perretta, 
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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Hey Michael, how does Blanch de Deux Saissons compare to the others. I have all the others, would it be worthwhile to add BdDS?
rafaelissimmo

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
My understanding is that Battaglia Green is not especially cold hardy for in ground. If you want one, Bills Figs in Flemington, NJ is one of the only places to buy the real deal.
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Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Michael, thanks for providing the ripening list!  It's great that you were able to get CdDB to ripen around the beginning of September last summer, especially since we had a rather late Spring and less than average heat.  It's also interesting that for you the flavor of BG and AJH is on par with that of CdDB.  Hopefully, I will be able to make this comparison with my own taste buds this year.
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Steve MD zone 7a
mgginva

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Waynea,

Well, let me say this first; I am going to put some cuttings on Ebay for the first time.

Things like Cavaliere -- you know - real high quality but not easy to find varieties.
This offering "splurge" will also include BdDS and whatever else I can narrow down and am willing to honestly say I think the variety is worth bidding on.

So, that being said -- yes -- I absolutely love the look, flavor and production of my BdDS's. 
I posted a much better picture a couple years ago and you should look that one up.

I have 250 varieties and am trying to narrow down 25 for a future grove.
So far I have "found" less then 10 varieties I will definitely include. As I only got figs from half my plants last year it is easy to see that this project will take a few more years (I figure 7 at least. I have been at it since 2007).

Herman said something a couple years ago that I agree with - paraphrasing and it may have been one or three years ago not two as well.

Anyway he said that to sell things on Ebay you should first grow them and get harvests in your own back yard so you can honestly present that variety. This was said in response to something now deleted in a thread that became very heated. It was about certain members claiming on Ebay that certain "rare" figs were worth bidding on when in fact the scion wood had come straight from over seas and had not been grow by the seller. What may be a great fig on a dry island in the Med or the plains of Spain may be a complete flop here.

Not to point fingers or start any ill will as it is not my business to police other's ethics on Ebay - just want to explain why I have waited until now to offer things like Angelique that I have had for a number of years but have been unwilling to sell. It is inferred I believe that if I, for example, sell a fig and make certain claims about it's quality the buyer believes I have a certain amount of experience with that variety. Anyway I do believe unless clearly stated that the seller should not only have the mother tree but the fig picture should be one taken from that mother tree as well.

So -- was that way more then you wanted to read? sorry.

So, yes -- I love BdDS. The green figs with very dark red pulp and strong berry flavor are my favorites. There are certainly other figs that are exceptional that aren't g/r like Ronde de Bordeaux which is an absolute "must have" variety. I will not be offering RdB on Ebay as I sell locally and that variety is excellent for my area and all cuttings will stay here.
mgg
just FYI - my taste notes on BdDS for 2014 were, "very sweet, juicy, strawberry jam,little crunch, very strong flavor".
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Michael in Virginia (zone 7a) Wish list:   Perretta, 
Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Rafael, as Michael has written previously Battaglia Green was found many years ago by S. Battaglia growing in-ground in Virginia (probably a zone 7).  I doubt if they protected the tree every year.  Gene Hosey also had it growing in southern Maryland (zone 7b) for several years unprotected and it did great.  So based on that I have thought that BG is relatively cold hardy and planted mine it in ground last Spring.  I'll report on cold damage on all my varieties in a couple months.
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rafaelissimmo

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Rewton

I look forward to your reports. In the meantime, it is just so darn cold these last few years here in the northeast, and the summers have been nothing to write home about. If I was planting anything in ground in these parts, I would only plant the most cold hardy figs or look for an extra protected microclimate. Anything else you should expect considerable dieback. At least in the near term, the northeast is most definitely exempted from any global warming trends.
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Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Yes, it is frustrating that 2014 was the warmest year ever recorded world-wide but in eastern north america it was brutal during the winter with not a very warm summer either.  I keep looking at the 10 day forecast hoping for consistently warming temps but so far I'm not seeing any sign of Spring here!
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Steve MD zone 7a
mgginva

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Battaglia Green was in ground unprotected at Folly Castle for at the very least 75 years and quite possibly since 1783. There is a lot of history here that I've posted before.
I got mine from a member who's family has been growing this variety since before WWll, and has been active and very knowledgable about the tree that was at Folly Castle.  

The fig was originally from Folly Caslte in Petersburg Virginia.
I do not know if the nursery Rafael mentioned has one of the "true" BG's or not, but if the one he is selling is not very hardy perhaps he has a different variety.

I know I have one of the Folly Castle ones and those are the real ones. As the variety was "introduced" by Paradise nursery here in Virginia and they have closed there is no way to ask them for further clarification. 

I gave one to Monticello and I think they'll start calling it the "Folly Castle" fig as that is a much more accurate name.
Several years ago I gave out a lot of cuttings to folks who wanted to make sure that the BG they had was from Folly Castle.

It is my understanding that the Battaglia Green is a hardy fig but my first hand experience is only with trees I bring in in the winter, but there certainly seems to be folks in this area that leave them out here in zone 7.

I sell trees locally and I certainly hear about any deaths as folks want replacements. I sold one in 2012, 14 in 2013 and 2 in 2014 and so far have not had anyone call about problems. I also supplied at least 15 f4f members with cuttings and only had to replace one set and that was due to the cuttings being neglected according to that member.

mgg

Steve, I have grown CdDB from 5 different sources (but how closely related is the question as they may all have originally been UDC stock) and as you know my little project here is to find the varieties/cultivars that work the best here. If I did a ripening list that listed individual trees it would look very different. The list is first ripe fig from any tree of that variety. For example my #3 large CdDN produces brebas and is earlier and much more productive then my other 2 large CdDNs. If this continues for 2 more years then I will get rid of the slow pokes.
Steve I wonder sometimes if the fact that that CdDB was in the front southern facing row and in an unprotected black pot may have helped as last summer was not very warm. I also watered either in the AM or late afternoon instead of at lunch so the pots weren't cooled off like they are usually. I also had a lot of my pots sitting on black plastic which gave them additional heat.
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Michael in Virginia (zone 7a) Wish list:   Perretta, 
waynea

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Good philosophy and explanation Michael, not too long at all. I will be on the watch for your listings.
rafaelissimmo

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Michael

Thank you for the Battaglia facts. Burnt Ridge nursery is the only one selling a documented Battaglia, and they are always out of stock. Bill is not really into pedigree so I have no idea if he sells the real thing. I will send you some pics of mine someday, maybe you can confirm.
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mgginva

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
W - thx
R - sure, but I have to warn you I'm no expert at ID. If possible try Herman. I could of course send you leaves and a fig or two if you were really serious. My Battaglia Green is taste-wise my absolute favorite fig so if you aren't getting figs very much like CdDB's look into your BG. Those pics above represent a great bunch of figs - really top drawer figs.
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Michael in Virginia (zone 7a) Wish list:   Perretta, 
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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
Vasile, I agree, Adriatic JH has been the best for us NJ gardeners. what a great fig, thanks to Joe Hood. It has been the overall best fig in my backyard. My question is I haven't found a black fig with such an impact.When I started tasting these incredible white figs it was worth all the hard work that I put into years of selecting. What black fig would you say is at the same level as this Gem. Thank you always for your wisdom.



Anthony
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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Antonio:I can't say what black fig would be ,as good as Adriatic jh for your particular climate.
Of course there is one,that is just as good and better ,here in my yard,but I am afraid it will not ripe early enough for you because it is a late cultivar and,you are more northern situated compared to here.
The fig I am talking is Italian 258
This past Summer,it was not even colored black as it should be,even here in my location,because ,it was a cool Summer,but it was ,delicious ,at the superlative.
I do not know if you got any spot in your garden with totally full sun,because it is a must,with this cultivar.
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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Oh no Vasile, don't say that, now I'm going to have to get an Italian 258!

(But really, I'm a green fig girl through and through.)
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mgginva

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Donna, 
I am so happy to hear there is another one of us that prefers the green figs! 
I should get figs from a few more varieties that are green w/ dark red pulp this year (like Vasalika Sika, etc.) and that's exciting as the dark green figs with very dark red pulp berry tasting are my absolute favorites.

There are some really good varieties with lighter colored pulp like Marseilles Monticello (which may be a St Anthony - I will compare this year as I finally received my St Anthony).

I bet I'm the only one on this forum with a large collection that has more green figs then dark figs.

Back before so many of the older members left there were a number of "dark fig only" members.
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Michael in Virginia (zone 7a) Wish list:   Perretta, 
james

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
there are excellent varieties of dark colored figs and excellent varieties of light colored figs... Why limit yourself to either when you can have both?
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2016 Wish List:  Dārk Pōrtuguese, Grānthāms Royāl, Lātarolla, Negrettā, Nōire de Bārbentāne, Rockāway Green, Viōlet Sepōr, Viōlette Dāuphine.  Iranian figs are always welcome.
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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Michael,

Historically, I've had more light colored varieties than dark. I think last year was the first my collection tipped towards the dark. About 75% of what I brought to Denver is dark, and some of the green ones came just because they were in containers. I could not leave them unattended in Texas.
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In containers - Littleton, CO (zone 5b)
In ground - N.E of Austin, TX (zone 8b) 

2016 Wish List:  Dārk Pōrtuguese, Grānthāms Royāl, Lātarolla, Negrettā, Nōire de Bārbentāne, Rockāway Green, Viōlet Sepōr, Viōlette Dāuphine.  Iranian figs are always welcome.
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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
James,
I'm not sure why you made the above comment as I don't think anyone said anything about limiting their choices. I did mention folks who wouldn't keep light figs but I also said they no longer came here so I can't imagine you would be talking to them.

?
??
???
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Michael in Virginia (zone 7a) Wish list:   Perretta, 
mgginva

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Now I understand even less of why you made that comment as aren't you now limiting yourself to only dark figs? I see you still have light ones but only as they were in containers and apparently brought under a certain amount of duress.

?
///
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???
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Michael in Virginia (zone 7a) Wish list:   Perretta, 
Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
I interpreted James' comment to mean that he has historically appreciated both light and dark figs but recently has started to lean dark. I'm open to any color that does well here, and has a nice flavor, but I do like the look of a green fig with red pulp!  Anyway, most of the figs I have been able to successfully ripen from my collection so far have been dark for whatever reason.  I should be able to taste a lot of light ones this year so perhaps I will have a preference one way or the other after this season.
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Steve MD zone 7a
mgginva

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
Did you get that from #26?
That was what I was addressing. The comments came in out of order. That's why I had to do a second comment. to address #27

None the less why are you interpreting James's comments anyway?

James is a smart articulate guy (and I like him) . . . and if I ask him why he's gone down a certain path - he'll answer me.
We have no bad blood between us and don't need an interpreter.

Geeez this forum is an odd place. In just the past few posts since I've "been back" I've had a couple of comments already that just aren't "normal" - certainly they wouldn't be said were all of us sitting together over dinner. 

Anyway -- no time to dwell.

You have had a very different experience as my green figs out performed my dark ones by a large margin last year.
I agree with you that the best looking figs are the dark green ones with deep dark red pulp. Well I embellished but you'll forgive me.

We should go over what green figs you are growing. My young Lemon, for example, produced over 10 pounds of beautiful big (100 gms) figs and that tree is only 5 feet tall and in a 15 gallon pot. My Conadrias both had bumper crops as did the larger of the 2 Atreanos. My Montrueuse was a beast, etc. etc.
My freezer is full of bags of green figs I intend to use to make the preserves I use to put on pork tenderloins. 

I almost went into a sugar coma from the Monticello Marseilles I up potted last year.

I tell ya Steve my green figs were far far more productive across the board. A few exceptions - my 3 Ronde de Bordeaux's and one of my three CdDN's, etc. I guess I just had a very good year. Is it the bunny poop? hmm . . . 

I bet if you get enough ripe g/r figs you will end up chasing the ones you don't have yet. I could never just go green as I think Ronde de Bordeaux may be the best all round fig I own. It just does everything right. 

I love them all! Black, brown, purple, dark green, lite green, yellow, striped, red, etc. As long as they ripen properly there are no bad figs.
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Michael in Virginia (zone 7a) Wish list:   Perretta, 
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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
I do not think it has ever been a conscious decision on my part to select one or the other.  In Texas I could grow just about any variety.  I did start off with more green varieties than dark, but in recent years it has balanced out.  Since I moved to Denver, I have very limited space and a short growing season.  The decision on what to bring to Denver was based on what I had growing or what was being offered to me that would perform best and maximize the season.  The plants I brought under "duress" (both light and dark) are not a good fit for Denver, but are varieties I'd like to eventually plant in Texas.  I did not have time to take care of them last year.  In the mean time, they will take up valuable real estate in Denver. ;)  In the future there will be more room for growing figs.  I will select varieties which fit in with my scheme, and I suspect things will become more even.

The comment about enjoying both was in reference to those who do limit themselves to one kind or another (while some of the members do not come around, I'm sure there are many who have been told XXX figs or YYY are better than the others).  My father claims to only like large, dark figs.  When I bring him light colored ones, he'll eat them (and I think he secretly enjoys them).  He still bugs me for the dark ones, though.  I do not think that is the case, but In all fairness to those who have a strong preference one way or the other, I suppose someone who only wanted 5-10 varieties could accomplish their goals with strictly dark or light varieties.  But, why?  There are other more relevant factors to consider than the color of the skin.
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2016 Wish List:  Dārk Pōrtuguese, Grānthāms Royāl, Lātarolla, Negrettā, Nōire de Bārbentāne, Rockāway Green, Viōlet Sepōr, Viōlette Dāuphine.  Iranian figs are always welcome.
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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
Michael, I think that I have tasted more dark figs mainly because my collection is still young and it seems that many of the interesting green figs tend to be late ripeners and were set back due to a variety of circumstances that shouldn't affect them this year.  However, I forgot to mention that Atreano was one of my best performing figs last year very productive with tasty fruits.  In fact, I harvested so many nice figs off of my not very large Atreano that right after I harvested the last one it seems to show stress and didn't put on any new growth prior to dormancy.  I wonder if it will have an off year this as it recovers - we'll see.  I also tasted about 10 wonderful Adratic JH figs last year and am looking forward to many more in the future.  One common green fig that I don't have but people rave about as being a "must have" is Green Ischia. I think I'll hold off for now and see how my others do.
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Steve MD zone 7a
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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
Thanks for all the info Michael, it's always a pleasure to learn some history and get seasoned reviews. I had never heard of Folly Castle until now, only Sandy B.  I got my Battaglia from Rabbit Ridge Nursery who got it from some lady who bought it from Paradise.  I was going to buy cuttings from the former owner of Paradise directly, but she never ended up doing another sale..at least that I knew of. Luckily a search led me to Fred at Rabbit Ridge, nice guy.
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mgginva

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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
DSC_0036.jpgI am having posting problems -- will try again later.
 The pic was an experiment -- is a Lemon, btwDSC_0036.jpg 

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Michael in Virginia (zone 7a) Wish list:   Perretta, 
rafaelissimmo

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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
Michael:
You are not the only person who prefers green figs with a deep red center! That is why I have Adriatic JH, Col de Dame Blanc and Battaglia. People here have forgotten one other similar fig which I look forward to tasting for the first time this year: the Paradiso Gene.
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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
Just as an FYI Bills Battaglia grows in a very strange way. The branches seem to grow out then down then up where as Jons Battaglia is growing straight as an arrow straight up. It's only one year old but it's 3-4 feet tall now.
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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/battaglia-7087515?pid=1284368024#post1284368024
mgginva

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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
Steve,
Green Ischia is very under rated and is an excellent fig. As a matter of fact years ago I ate a ton of these figs at Monticello and it changed my growing profile completely as I fell in love with figs and that's what started it all for me. As a matter of fact I went back and took cuttings and my GI is from the tree that started it all. 
James,
I'd love to see a list of what you are growing there. I imagine the early ripening varieties would work the best. 
Calvin,
thx for the appreciation. I try.
Rafael,
There's a whole bunch we haven't discussed. I'd love to swap something with you for Paradiso Gene cuttings as mine had figs that make me question it's ID -- even though I got mine from Gene Hosey's back yard.
I'll post some others we didn't discuss -- and this is only part of the ones not shown up top. Also posting Bremo as I bet you've never seen and even though it's not a G/R it's a neat fig.DSC_0554.jpg DSC_0494.jpg DSC_0338.jpg DSC_0536.jpg
I bet there's still another half dozen I did not list plus I added a bunch more that haven't ripened figs yet. There's a lot of figs out there still to explore.
adios
mgg
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Michael in Virginia (zone 7a) Wish list:   Perretta, 
espo8

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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
Vasile, Thank You for always sharing your wisdom.
             Stay Well,  Anthony
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