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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
One day I realized that since my figs are protected in the winter there's no reason I couldn't have the fig wasps survive over the winter if I had a few caprifigs.  So I'm going to try it.

For those of you who have been looking in to this more than I have, 3 questions.

1. What are the best caprifigs for producing seeds that will grow up to be common figs?

2. In another thread Lampo mentioned that fruits pollinated by Zidi tasted better than those pollinated by other varieties, if I understood him correctly.  Is that the only one we know of?

5. Who wants to sell me some cuttings of Zidi and the others that are answers to the Qs above?  :)
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eboone

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Bob, you probably know this, but to produce seeds that will grow into common figs you need a 'persistent' caprifig, and I know that Condit started with one and bred some better ones in his work. I don't think I have ever read what caprifigs that were used in LSU's program, possibly same ones?

The idea of overwintering caprifigs full of wasp eggs/embryos/whatever is a very interesting one, that I have thought about as well. I'm a rookie though at growing figs, trying to get the basics down first.
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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
One book recommends Roeding #3, Stanford and Milco to provide early, mid and late wasps to pollinate fruit.  Judging by the font I'd guess it was written around 1920  :) 

Ingevald tells us that
Saleeb (UCR 271-1), Croisic / Gillette, Enderud (UCR 228-20), Capri Q - are examples (of persistent caprifigs).   These figs are not good homes for the fig wasp though, and artificial pollen transfer is required.   Many of these caprifigs are edible, some better than others.  


 
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Ruuting

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Bob, we've gotta talk.
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Rui
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lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Bob,

The variety Zidi is a Smyrna type (Caducous) ..it cannot pollinate any other fig. To ripen it needs full pollination, made always in two to three caprifications

What I said before is that tests, performed in Tunisia, demonstrated that Zidi figs developed better characteristics  if pollinated by a particular Tunisian Caprifig  .

This is the link for that information..

http://yadda.icm.edu.pl/yadda/element/bwmeta1.element.elsevier-3c4cfeb0-d8fb-3899-9e06-a2680f13024a?q=d0f73703-5563-4478-b6e5-8ba76f985e96$1&qt=IN_PAGE

Had already noticed that there are 3 major strains of Zidi in Tunisia .. NE  - NW  - deep South all giving good fruit but with diff characteristics.. and this probably from diff soils, fertilization. irrigation , etc and Caprification

It will be very difficult to tell you the best caprifigs for producing seeds to generate Common figs
That guy Harvey met is probably the one to put some light on the subject but, I do not think he is interested to talk.

Francisco
scott_ga

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
This is Enderub. Taste is nothing to write home about, very bland.
Enderubcut.jpg

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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Bob, everytime I read something about fig pollination, I learn something. I'm going to try to get my smyrna types polinated next year using some male fig trees. But, I will keep my male trees indoors every year. This whole fig polination thing is a learning curve for me.
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Dennis
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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Dennis, you of all people should be able to maintain a wasp population.  So should the Floridians.  If the odds are 1 in 100,000 of getting a good fig out of a breeding we need a lot of us doing it.  :)
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HarveyC

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
I think I need to travel around the levee roads in my area soon with my GPS and mark the location of the wild caprifigs to mark their location so I can go back in June and maybe again even later to see if any are persistent.  But, mostly, I'd like to find some black caprifigs.

Although not part of breeding discussion on Friday, the breeder did tell me that one of the effects of caprification was also to increase acidity of fruit.  If I understood that correctly, that might be because of oil in the resultant seeds.  He considered that to be an undesirable affect for his customer target though I feel that is not the case for the typical figaholic here.
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Vladis

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Желтый опылителей - своего рода иностранного происхождения. Опылитель для огромного числа сортов с съедобными плодами. Дает один большой урожай фруктов с массой пыльцы и различных доброкачественных насекомых-опылителей. Плоды крупные, ярко-желтый, созревают в июле - августе.Инж.Жёлтый опыл .. JPG 

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can_smokva

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Translated to English (Google translator)

Yellow pollinators - a kind of foreign origin. Pollinator for a huge number of varieties with edible fruits. Gives one a large crop of fruit with a mass of pollen and various benign insect pollinators. Fruits are large, bright yellow, ripen in July - August.
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
(translated by Google)

Hello,

Хорошие инжир
Являются ли эти фиги съедобные?
Если я правильно поняла, в его окружении это фиговый процесс его поколение хороших ос в конце июля, который может быть хорошо для некоторых поздних сортов.
Есть ли Смирна сорта, как в соседней Турции только через Черное море-?
Спасибо
Francisco
Vladis

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
В России первый инжир, Бребен созревают в начале июля. Марки "мирра" и многие осы blastofaga опыляет их. Это желтый опылителей несъедобным.
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bullet08

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
этот форум будет многоязыковой!
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Pete
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***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
translated by Google

Спасибо
Очень интересно!
Я вижу, что ваши Brebas созревают в июле и Blastophaga выходит из Caprifigs также в июле, чтобы опылить второй урожай
Очень похоже здесь, только небольшая разница в сроках
snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Pete, yes, I have tasted wasp pollinated brown turkey and californina BT figs.  Both are EXTREMELY rich and very very sweet!  JV won't admit it but they are excellent!   We tasted them at UCD 2 years ago.  They taste almost as good as Zidi!  All 3 are superb tasting figs!  This is why folks from Southern California come to my area seeking BT figs.  They think they will taste like those back home.  BUt they do not.  Just imagine if every state in the USA had the wasp.  All common figs would get caprified.
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Dennis
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lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Pete, Dennis

You may try and go here : > http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=PRP19120120.2.7#

and read something very interesting written about Jan 20/1912 on the Pacific Rural Press by 'Tribble Bros' of Elk Grove,Cal. ..more than a century ago!

A local botanist , in 1882, reported similarly and encouraged  farmers to keep cultivating and tendering  their Caprifigs, to pollinate Smyrna and Common/San Pedro alike
My grand dad was always very happy in an abundant wasp season. His white Common fig crop meant for drying would get better tonnage and far better fruit, which would also mean a top class dry fig. (higher price per kilogram) and still ..... many people doubt !

Francisco
bullet08

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
two things i can think of.. when there are no caprifigs, common figs will not get pollinated. then.. not sure if there is enough money for people to ship fig wasps. and i think timing has to be right with caprifigs and wasps. not sure all the details about it. from what i understand, it's possible to have caprifigs in east coast, but not the fig wasps. not sure if the wasps can't survive here or not. i would assume that it's possible down south.. but it's too humid. i could be wrong. 
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Pete
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"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
HarveyC

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Last year In inquired into shipping caprifigs (with wasps) to one state back east and asked the ag officials there about the regulations that might affect this.  First, I was told to apply for an APHIS permit.  APHIS told me that the wasps are not regulated by USDA so they would not issue me a permit.  Then the state looked into California regulations and notified me that there is some concern even within CA about fusarium being transmitted by the wasps which resulted in regulations that require mamme figs be picked up from the ground in order to reduce the chance of fusarium being trasmitted to the profichi.  I was told that I would be required to obtain a phytosanitary certificate on each shipment of caprifigs to have them tested to make sure that they did not harbor fusarium.  Of course, having to have them sent off to a lab would render the figs and wasps useless by the time they were cleared.  No such requirements exist for shipments to commercial Smyrna fig growers in California.  I responded by saying that fusarium was already abundantly present in our environments and that they only potential impact would be to damage the crop of the grower receiving the caprifigs.  She didn't really seem to care so I dropped the matter.  Ridiculous, in my opinion.
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louborges

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Doesn't the fig wasp lay eggs in the fig they pollinate, which the fig larva feed off fig and when we eat the fig we also get them?   
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Hi Pete,
My thread was just to respond to your question ,inquiring about what pollination could make to a Common fig . Establishing a wasp colony in your zone does not seem to be possible for a variety of reasons. Latest news from Harvey, as you and I have read killed an option I had dreamed you and other  fellow members could put into practice.

Francisco
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 

Hi louborges,

No, the fig wasps do not lay any eggs in the fig they pollinate. They can only lay their eggs inside Caprifigs

If you have a spare moment moment try and read/explore the contents of this page :

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/pljune99.htm

Francisco
fignutty

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Could anyone who's tasted fresh Calimyrna compare it to common figs? Is it really enough better to pursue wasp culture? Sounds like even with the wasp it's not easy. Over pollination and it splits.
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bullet08

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
was talking to a young man from turkey. he saw my split Black Madeira and said, "that's what i'm talking about!" it seems over pollination isn't sucha bad thing where fig wasps are around.
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Pete
Durham, NC
Zone 7b

"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petechanr
Very interesting topic. Just out of curiosity, has anyone actually tasted wasp pollinated brown turkey. It would be nice to see actual pictures and hear comparisons and not just heresy. I hope I'm not offending anyone, will the wasp improve the taste of common figs noticeably or is it just for the Smyrna type. This is all new to me.[/QUOTE

[image]
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Aaron,

Cannot see the picture, but believe you have something to show and illustrate that question on the doubts about the good things pollination brings to Common varieties

While waiting let me show you a nice and rich (good flavor! ) Common fig from the 'Abebereira family',
we call it  Bêbera Branca.

bebera.JPG 

It'a a late variety, typical of the southern areas, very sweet, good aroma but not crunchy
It loves sun and a few drops of water
On my next thread will try and show this same variety, exposed to the Blastophaga.

Francisco
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Sorry, for a while my pics archives were not responding and I could not show the marked differences of the Common Bêbera Branca fig, after being pollinated by wasps coming from a nearby Caprifig
The change is obvious.
Now we have a fully crunchy fig (all its seeds are full with a solid and much flavored kernel) syrup to spare and if that was not enough, a nicer red color and far more weight.
All Common figs benefit from caprification

P1040049.jpg  P1040049.jpg   P1040050.jpg  P1040051.jpg 




P1040055.jpg
eboone

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
Francisco - thanks for the pics and info.  The non-caprified figs in this example seem to have a much darker outside color - is that typical also or just a coincidence in this example?
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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Dennis and Jon have tasted caprified Brown Turkeys @ UCD.  Dennis has written about it in a thread here.
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lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Ed, Yes you right! Pollination does always affect fig skin colors, shades, bloom, etc.. and this fig is no exception.. Here, the skin stretched to the limits,also shows those cracks (cuts) to accommodate the increase of the  pulp volume.

Still, on Common varieties of light skin colors, caprification makes them even lighter and on figs meant to dry, the dried fruit presents a very light color.. (almost white) and this means more value as dried figs get higher classification, being so light.

Francisco
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
Francisco here you are to the rescue... how can I bit those pics...
God I am salivating looking at them...I want them all.
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
Aaron,

You may try to duplicate the exercise with a well cultivated BT and to let the right wasps to pay a visit!
The results will not be much different, ..' salivation included '

Francisco
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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
That's my goal Francisco, I want all my open eyes figs to be caprified.
ThaiFig

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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcantor
Ingevald tells us that
Saleeb (UCR 271-1), Croisic / Gillette, Enderud (UCR 228-20), Capri Q - are examples (of persistent caprifigs).   These figs are not good homes for the fig wasp though, and artificial pollen transfer is required.   Many of these caprifigs are edible, some better than others.  


 

Anyone have these persistent Caprifigs? I'd love to play around with cross breeding them here.
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Smyfigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
Thaifig, Im with you!! Been waiting to find one!
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ThaiFig

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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
Well if no one here has cuttings I'll ask on some other forums and try to track some down. I've found someone with Capri-Q but they don't have a big enough plant for cuttings. Strange, would have expected more hobbyists to be growing the ones that make edible caprifigs ?
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Vladis

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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
Ин.Капри 02. 05.16..jpg  ThaiFig,Kaprifigi planted primarily for pollination. In Russia there are varietal kaprifigi and so we grow figs all groups. Names kaprifig gardeners in private gardens do not know. Just - male figs or "boy".

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ThaiFig

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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
Hi Vladis. It's easy to grow caprifigs from seeds collected from dried figs But I want to breed common figs more suitable to our climate. For that I need specific caprifigs that have the persistent gene.
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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
In 1901- 1937, Russia imported a large number of plant varieties. Collections of these plants were: 1. NBS (Nikitsky Botanical Garden), Yalta. 2. Research Institute of Subtropical Crops, Sochi. The total amount of edible figs, male figure, hybrids reached 300. And you think that in our gardens grow figs grown from seed? You can not be so naive.
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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaiFig
Well if no one here has cuttings I'll ask on some other forums and try to track some down. I've found someone with Capri-Q but they don't have a big enough plant for cuttings. Strange, would have expected more hobbyists to be growing the ones that make edible caprifigs ?


Edible does not mean incredible.  And there are other persistent caprifigs besides the edible ones.  The edible caprifigs are less hospitable to wasps than the dry caprifigs.  What wasps there are have to wade through jelly without drowning to get out.  So for me, I'm growing a mix of caprifigs.  Unfortunately they're almost all recently rooted cuttings.  In my experience at least some caprifigs don't handle cool weather well.  While most common figs that are dormant can handle 25 F without problems, some caprifigs can't handle brief exposures to the low 30s repeated every 24 hrs for 3 days.
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Posted Reply with quote  #41 
Who has counted the number of kaprifigi imported into GNBS, Yalta from different countries, 18 sortoform. But private gardeners do not know the names of these kaprifig in their own gardens.
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Posted Reply with quote  #42 
I recently found a fig tree full of figs...i wondered why it had so many. Is there a way to know if it is a caprifig?
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Posted Reply with quote  #43 
If it's full of figs right now it's a capri. It probably has two crops on it ripening at different stages.
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Smyfigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #44 
What I meant by full is that there were many branches that had at least 2 or three figs on them. Does this qualify as "full"? Im not sure. Pls see pics...

Attached Images
jpeg image.jpeg (740.58 KB, 26 views)
jpeg image.jpeg (708.52 KB, 28 views)


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Posted Reply with quote  #45 
I coukdnt attach the one with the tree but i will try later
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Posted Reply with quote  #46 
Capri fig 100%
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Posted Reply with quote  #47 
Wow - that second photo is slightly out of focus - but it makes the picture look like a watercolor!
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Smyfigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #48 
Woohoo!! I thought it might be! How do u know?
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Posted Reply with quote  #49 
Okay, so i went to find someone who could give me the okay to cut branches and i found some kids who said that no one cares about the tree & to go ahead so i cut some good cuttings!
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Jolly Tiger
Lamperia Preta
Herschtetten
St. Jean
Black Ischia

"The best way to show my gratitude is to accept everything, even my problems, with joy." ~ Mother Teresa  
"Do not pass by a man in need for you may be the hand of God to him." ~Proverbs 3:27~  
"He performs wonders that cannot be fathomed, miracles that cannot be counted." ~Job 5:4

 
MStanleyross

Registered:
Posts: 108
Posted Reply with quote  #50 
Good find, good luck with them.
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Wish List: Sodus Scilian, Dall' Osso, Kathleen Black, I-258, Malta Black, Ischia Black, Persian White, Native de Argentile, Lampeira Preta, Sofeno Petro and any LSU or any duplicates you may have.
Zone 7 East Tn.
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