Register  |   | 
 
Encanto Farms Nursery > Topics > NE US - Die Back Question
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
smithmal

Registered:
Posts: 75
Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Total fig newb here.  I'm interested in getting some fig trees for my yard.  I'm live in MD (zone 6b) and was wondering how bad everyone's die back was from this past winter in the NE (which was particularly bad last winter).

I've written to Herman2 and he indicated he had die back with the Marseilles Black VS variety.

From what I've read, the MBVS is supposedly one of the hardier (if not hardiest) varieties obtainable.

Other's I've read which would be good for my area include:
  • Celeste
  • Hardy Chicago
  • Brown Turkey
  • Maryland Berry (or Brown Turkey Maryland or possibly MBVS)

I wanted to make sure I choose the best fig type for my location (i.e. hardy and tasty and good size).  
All opinions and experiences would be appreciated.

Also, when one does have die back to the ground, how long does it take to once again start getting a harvest from your tree?

Thanks,

smithmal
__________________
Malcolm - MD - Zone 6B

Varieties growing (Received 2014): Beale, Col de Dame Blanc, Danny's Delight, Desert King, JH Adriatic, Lemon, Longue d'Aout, Marseilles Black VS, Olympian, Ronde de Bordeaux, Strawberry Verte, Vista, UCR-184-15s, Violette de Bordeaux, White King
greg88

Registered:
Posts: 800
Posted Reply with quote  #2 
you can do a search as there have been many conversations in the past over cold hardiness as well as this past winters effects.
in a nutshell, this past winter, pretty much everyone had die back on pretty much anything that was not protected and many that were.  some are coming back, some are not
__________________
Greg North West Arkanasas Zone 6b
Wish list: any SPECTACULAR cold hardy figs, and/or perhaps a Niagra Bl., Laradek EBT, Kathleen's Bl, Hunt, a great UNK or anything anyone wants me to have???
Sas

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,364
Posted Reply with quote  #3 

Smith,
Whatever fig you choose, if in ground, it will need protection at least for the first two to three years. In Zone 6B I would say try to protect it as long as you can, until you get a minimum of two inch thick trunk.
One respected member in this forum recently announced that he lost all his in ground trees this past winter in New Jersey.
I had figs in the ground here in Texas and they were Col de Dame(3) a Black Madeira also a Violette de Bordeaux. They all had die back but they all came back vigorously.
Over two thirds of the trunk got killed and I thought that I had totally lost them. They were in their first year. Remember that Texas is zone 8B.
__________________
Sas from North Austin TX Zone 8B
Wish list: Becane
KK

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 412
Posted Reply with quote  #4 

Last winter was an anomaly, I hope. All my in ground trees were last covered about  4 years ago and suffered little to no damage. Earlier I thought they did not die to the ground however, Vista Mission, MBVS, Sals (Gene), Hardy Chicago, 2 Lyndhurst White died to ground and all sprouting nicely

I expect to get some figs this year.

Everywhere I look I see fig skeletons.
Chivas

Registered:
Posts: 1,675
Posted Reply with quote  #5 
My dalmaite is growing well, it died back to the soil but sent up about 12 strong suckers, which I thinned out, bent over etc and most are about 2 feet tall already, I doubt I will get figs on it this year but if it doesn't die back to the ground this year I should have some next year, rdB died back to the ground as well but I protected poorly but it will soon be huge again as well, col de dama noir died back in similar circumstances as rdb but it should be fine this coming winter I am hoping, but no figs from it this year.  Niagara black didn't die all the way abck to the soil on a first year tree, only about 3/4 of the way dead and it about 2 feet tall again with several suckers.
__________________
Canada Zone 6B
indestructible87

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 548
Posted Reply with quote  #6 
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/winter-2010fig-cultivars-cold-hardeness-results-4640563?pid=1275010559#post1275010559

I found this thread, also started by herman pretty helpful
__________________
Travis Pittsburgh, PA
RichinNJ

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,687
Posted Reply with quote  #7 
http://www.hicksnurseries.com/documents/howto/Figs%20-%20Letter%20Paper.pdf
thearabicstudent

Registered:
Posts: 118
Posted Reply with quote  #8 
I'm in Maryland too.  A little closer to the coast than you and all my potted figs in my unheated shed either totally died or died back to the ground and are about 4 inches tall now.  The Hardy Chicago I had in the ground unprotected outside died back to the ground as well.  It was about 1.5 to 2 inches in diameter so not a tiny tree.  It was my first year growing figs here and I wanted to see if you actually needed to go through the hassle of wrapping them up here.  You do.  It dropped to 0 degrees twice this winter and stayed in the single digits for many days.  Wrap them up, put them in a shed, and even then who knows...
__________________
http://www.thearabicstudent.com Maryland, Zone 7a (half a mile from 6b)
rafaelissimmo

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,473
Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Greg88 said it all. Just a note-you referred to Marseilles Black, and later to Maryland Berry MBVS. Actually, MBVS refers to Marseilles Black VS (Herman's initials).
__________________
Zone 7b, Queens, New York
Tonycm

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 922
Posted Reply with quote  #10 
One variable that will determine whether or not you get ripe figs from a severe dieback is WHEN the tree starts to regrow. My Hardy Chicago died to ground level last year but regrew much earlier than it did this year. Last year it ripened close to 100% of all the figs. At this time last year the tree was about 3 feet tall. This year I doubt I will get very many, if any at all. I only have 5 sprouts that are 12 inches tall so things aren't looking in my favor. This summer will be another test. I should know by September.
__________________
Zone 6a Sarver, PA Wish list; Rafed's Genovese Nero
smithmal

Registered:
Posts: 75
Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Great information.  Thanks to all that responded.

Basically what I am reading is the following:

1.  For the first couple of years, regardless of the variety, winter protection should be used
2.  Regardless of the variety, a severe winter (such as last winter) will cause significant die back

From statements 1 & 2, I'm guessing if I'm serious about growing cold hardy fig trees, to be on the safe side, I should intend to provide winter protection.

From what I've read on this awesome forum, many, who live in zone 7 or below, container grow their figs and then move them to a covered area (shed/garage) for the winter.  Is this the best course for having your figs survive the winter?

As BronxFigs said in his die back post for last winter...

"Growing fig trees is easy, it's keeping them alive -through freezing winters- is far harder."

smithmal
__________________
Malcolm - MD - Zone 6B

Varieties growing (Received 2014): Beale, Col de Dame Blanc, Danny's Delight, Desert King, JH Adriatic, Lemon, Longue d'Aout, Marseilles Black VS, Olympian, Ronde de Bordeaux, Strawberry Verte, Vista, UCR-184-15s, Violette de Bordeaux, White King
BronxFigs

Registered:
Posts: 1,864
Posted Reply with quote  #12 
smithmal-

Please, heed all the postings re: die-back, winter-protection, etc.  While last year may have been a freaky winter, there is no guaranty that coming winters will be any kinder to our fig trees.  A great number of our forum members are now re-growing what was lost to die-back, and the death toll for figs trees was very high.  It's no fun seeing a collection get wiped out or badly damaged because of one bad winter.  All it takes is just one.

Do what ever is necessary to protect your trees from the deep, freezing temperatures.  There's good advice written above.  If you are planning on growing in ground, in Zone-6b, be careful, and do take the recommended precautions.  In ground trees in colder climates is always going to be a daunting situation. 

Your posting #11 just about sums it up.   I got wise, but, too late. I gambled and lost. Ten years of hard work got flushed down the toilet.   Instead of harvesting and eating some delicious, home-grown figs, I'll be nursing just a bunch of rooted "twigs" for the next few years.  Not a good thing for this fig lover!

Use protection.


Frank
__________________
Bronx, NYC
Zone-7
hoosierbanana

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,186
Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Sas, who lost all their in ground trees in NJ? 

DO NOT BUY CELESTE!!! Waste of money in the NE and it is also often mislabeled and sold as other varieties.
__________________
7a, DE
Sas

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,364
Posted Reply with quote  #14 

Brent, 

It was a private message. It read: "My in grounds are either dead or dead to the ground. It was the worst winter I can remember."
__________________
Sas from North Austin TX Zone 8B
Wish list: Becane
Rewton

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,946
Posted Reply with quote  #15 

Brent, I can't speak to regular Celeste as I gave my young Celeste away a couple years ago to a friend.  However, according to Vasile/Herman2, Improved Celeste (O'Rourke not) is supposed to do well in his area.  I have a young I.C. and am thinking of keeping it and seeing how it does.  Have you tried growing this one?

I planted about a dozen figs in the ground this Spring.  This was part of a long-term plan and I decided to stick with the plan even with the exceptionally cold winter.  I will have a lot of protecting to do in the late Fall.
__________________
Steve MD zone 7a
Dave

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,482
Posted Reply with quote  #16 
http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Cold_hardy_figs/
__________________
Connecticut - Zone 6B  Wish List - Bordissot negra rimada
hoosierbanana

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,186
Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Steve, I got IC as O'Rourke last season. And also more cuttings from Vasile's IC this season. From what I understand none of the LSU varieties drop fruit like their mother.

Sas- I thought I had missed something, thanks for the clarification.
__________________
7a, DE
smithmal

Registered:
Posts: 75
Posted Reply with quote  #18 
So, with young fig trees, is it better to bring them indoors for the first couple of winters rather than provide good winter protection?

Also regarding Celeste, where can one purchase an "O'Rourke" strain of it? Is the O'Rourke the best choice in my situation (zone 6b).

smithmal
__________________
Malcolm - MD - Zone 6B

Varieties growing (Received 2014): Beale, Col de Dame Blanc, Danny's Delight, Desert King, JH Adriatic, Lemon, Longue d'Aout, Marseilles Black VS, Olympian, Ronde de Bordeaux, Strawberry Verte, Vista, UCR-184-15s, Violette de Bordeaux, White King
hoosierbanana

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,186
Posted Reply with quote  #19 
I don't know which is better. O'Rourke and the Improved Celeste we are talking about (O'Rourke not) are both very early ripening, which is good, there is also another Improved Celeste available from Just Fruit and Exotics that ripens later. But which is hardier I have no idea, I think O'Rourke might be more vigorous than IC (O'R not) which is a good thing. 

You can try contacting Edible Landscaping to see when they will have more.

Fig English Brown TurkeyO'Rourke flesh is golden with red near center of the fruit when soft ripe. Ripens before Celeste. Fruit hangs down when fully ripe. O'Rourke is more resistant to defoliation caused by fig leaf rust. Ripens its fruits early and continues late into the fall. Zones 6-9 Space 10' circle 

Please contact our office to see about availability. 434.361.9134










Also I don't think Olympian was mentioned, but it is supposed to be very hardy and available as an economical TC plant from Wellspring. And then there is Nordland which you may want to jump on because it is usually sold out.

What is best for young trees really depends on your situation, if you have a good spot to plant then why not try it? Yes container plants are easier to protect but they are also more vulnerable. If you have more experience with containers then maybe focus on that and plant a cutting from it. Or plant it and take cuttings or an airlayer to grow in a pot.
__________________
7a, DE
smithmal

Registered:
Posts: 75
Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Thanks for all the suggestions an info

Here's my thinking...

In ground next to NE wall with protection in winter: Marseilles Black VS and Hardy Chicago
Potted and keep in garage during winter: Violette de Bordeaux, Desert King and Olympian

Does this sound like a good plan?

Would love to also do a Norland in ground, but I can't seem to find any sources.

Does anyone know of any or could maybe share some cuttings later this summer?

Thanks,

smithmal
__________________
Malcolm - MD - Zone 6B

Varieties growing (Received 2014): Beale, Col de Dame Blanc, Danny's Delight, Desert King, JH Adriatic, Lemon, Longue d'Aout, Marseilles Black VS, Olympian, Ronde de Bordeaux, Strawberry Verte, Vista, UCR-184-15s, Violette de Bordeaux, White King
Rewton

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,946
Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Nordland is sometimes misspelled as "Norland".  Smithmal, is Nordland what you mean?  If so, click on the hypertexted "Nordland" in post #19.
__________________
Steve MD zone 7a
smithmal

Registered:
Posts: 75
Posted Reply with quote  #22 
Rewton,

Thanks for the response.  I missed the hyperlink for some reason during the first re-through.

smithmal
__________________
Malcolm - MD - Zone 6B

Varieties growing (Received 2014): Beale, Col de Dame Blanc, Danny's Delight, Desert King, JH Adriatic, Lemon, Longue d'Aout, Marseilles Black VS, Olympian, Ronde de Bordeaux, Strawberry Verte, Vista, UCR-184-15s, Violette de Bordeaux, White King
MichaelTucson

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,216
Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithmal
Here's my thinking...
In ground next to NE wall with protection in winter: Marseilles Black VS and Hardy Chicago


I'm not sure what you mean by "NE wall".  Do you mean it is exposed to the northeast (and the wall is to the SW of where you'd put the tree)?  If that's what you mean, then I'd suggest you'd do better to use a wall that is facing to the southeast, rather than the northeast.  (Unless you're in the southern hemisphere, I mean).  You want the warming effect of the sun on the wall (as a heat sink), plus during the growing season you want the sun to hit the tree.  Without that, you won't get ripe figs.  Purely from the perspective of sunlight, you want a south-facing wall.  (And more heat-sink characteristic is better than less).  As far as east / west twists (rather than due south), then you get better optimization by some sheltering from the wind.  For most places around here there are prevailing westerly winds, so twisting to be SE facing is generally better than SW facing.  BUT keep in mind two things about this:  
         A) local wind patterns matter.  The only reason to optimize beyond a due south-facing wall is if you can shelter them from the wind through that angling.  (Winter winds are dry and very damaging to fig trees... one of the four or five main variables that matter).
        B) it's not clear that it'd be helpful to have the angle be TOO far in the eastern direction, if that cuts down significantly on the number of hours of direct sunlight the trees will get during the summer.  (Many factors contribute to this, such as other obstructions (of both wind and sunlight), latitude, local details, etc etc, so it's really not feasible to come up with a generalized optimal angle in these sorts of terms.  Better to just understand that the placement near a wall should be guided by principles like amount of sunlight (including the duration during a summer day and a winter day), heat sink characteristics, and wind protection.  If you're able to optimize the sun and heat absorption variables at the expense of wind protection, then make sure you use some other technique to protect from the winter winds.

There are other variables that you should consider primary as well.  Well drained soil is quite important.  (If your winters will cause you any significant amount of freezing at the ground, then wet areas where there'd be a lot of water ice around the roots are very bad compared with more aerated/drained soil (which is much better).  Freezing and thawing water around the roots does a lot of damage and can kill your tree, even if you've protected from wind and cold on the tops effectively.  All of this stuff is written about in other threads on the forum (in prior years), if you want to do some searches and research what's out here on the site.  (If you've got any difficulty finding them in searches, a few tips:  I posted some of them, robert harper posted quite a few of them, and I know lots of others like Herman and Rafed posted some as well).  

Good luck with your tree placement.  I'd suggest avoiding any north-facing walls though (unless you're in the southern hemisphere).  Sun is good for fig trees.

Mike   central NY state, zone 5a 
__________________
Pauca sed matura.
smithmal

Registered:
Posts: 75
Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Mike,

Awesome info there.  Thanks for taking the time to respond.  Actually I meant a east facing wall (brick garage wall).  Should act well as an artificial heatsink.  Unfortunately everything in the south/west side of the yard/house is shady by huge oak trees.  I will also provide good winter protection (string+hay+burlap+white cover (similar to what is seen in this video)).  Hopefully this will be adequate?
__________________
Malcolm - MD - Zone 6B

Varieties growing (Received 2014): Beale, Col de Dame Blanc, Danny's Delight, Desert King, JH Adriatic, Lemon, Longue d'Aout, Marseilles Black VS, Olympian, Ronde de Bordeaux, Strawberry Verte, Vista, UCR-184-15s, Violette de Bordeaux, White King
rafaelissimmo

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,473
Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Smithmal

Don't forget that while container culture helps a great deal during bad winters like this, eventually you have to pay the piper by dealing with root pruning every three years or so depending on size of container. Also, since it is a closed micro-environment, you have to add fertilizers and find the right mixture that works for you. michaeltucson said it right-a well draining soil is also essential, stay away from heavy topsoils. And add pelletized limestone in abundance, figs love that. I use a custom blend of pro-mix hp mycorrizae, limestone, sand, regular compost and if I have any, mushroom compost. Turface is also a good additive for good drainage. Worm castings are also good to add to the surface. I also use a pinebark mulch, not sure if it really helps. Pinebark fines get a lot of press as a good soil additive as well. Monitoring your ph seems like a good idea as well.
__________________
Zone 7b, Queens, New York
hoosierbanana

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,186
Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Malcolm I thought about it and if I were you I would put the Olympian out right away. A small TC plant should establish easily and grow fast in ground, and there is not much risk since it is easy to replace.

Figs are easily transplanted before they get very large so you can change your mind about what goes where later.

For example i dug 2 Stellas that were planted 2 years ago as year olds and the root system on them was larger than my Stella's in containers of the same age, even though the ones in ground were top killed the last 2 winters. The ones that have always been in containers will probably fruit for the first time at 3 years old, but I bet the two which were dug surpass them next season because they are growing very robustly.
__________________
7a, DE
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply