Decided to up pot

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drphil69

Registered:1390113240
Posts: 803

Posted 1403392298	Reply with quote #1

So I found a deal on Craigs List for 6 gal food grade buckets @ $2/ea. My timing was good as I got them all. After putting drain holes in a few, I decided I should try one out and up pot one of my cuttings started in January. I couldn't find 'Pine Bark Fines' for a 5-1-1 mix, so I decided to try 'Pine Bark Mulch.' It looks like it has some pine wood in it in addition to bark, which worried me a little, so I decide to change the mix and deal with any consequences later. Here is the mix I used, for 5 gallons total volume: 3 parts pine bark mulch 3 parts compost 1 part pearlite 1 cup Espoma Garden Tone 1 cup dolomite lime 1 Tbsp Ironite Pics: I was a little shocked at how root bound these were at only 5 months from cuttings. They were in 3 gallon trade pots. This is a Chicago Hardy. It has 2 tiny figs on it not visible in the pics: You can see the pine wood chips pretty clearly in this pic. One is never enough, so I up potted a NJ unk as well. This was also started from cutting in January. __________________ Phil - Zone 7A - Newark, DE Newbie fig lover just trying to learn.

susieqz

Registered:1372082549
Posts: 971

Posted 1403394233	Reply with quote #2

um, phil. if you want pine bark fines, you need to screen that mulch. anything that passes thru a 1/2'' screne are fines. i get mine that way. it's the cheapest method i've found. using the mulch without screening is not optimal. __________________ susie wish list: nothing. i can't grow cuttings . right now, i have 6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.

figpit

Registered:1377709918
Posts: 24

Posted 1403407104	Reply with quote #3

Those trees sure look good to me. RE: Pine Bark fines. I had some larger but thinner bark pieces in my fines that I ran through my leaf vac/mulcher that came out small enough to use. Yes, I do abuse that tool but I think it likes it cause it keeps running ;) Just a thought.... __________________ Tim Fort Wayne, IN Zone 5/6 (it keeps changing) Currently growing: Brown Turkey, Celeste, Kadota, White Texas EB Currently rooting: Alma, Black Madeira, Castle, Desert King, Dominicks Purple, Grasa Purple, Improved Celeste, Ischia Black, Ischia Green, VdB

eboone

Registered:1378418906
Posts: 1,101

Posted 1403433150	Reply with quote #4

What harm will happen if there is an occasional 3/4 or 1 inch diameter bark chunk in the mix??? Just curious, and lazy :) __________________ Ed Zone 6A - Southwest PA --------------------------- Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid), Col Littman's Black Cross. And any cold hardy early fig.

Hershell

Registered:1396922438
Posts: 650

Posted 1403433757	Reply with quote #5

What will happen? They will grow like crazy and can't be controlled. Now no one wants those results do they. Great job drphil69. They might need to be watered a little more often but it is better then staying watterloged. __________________ Hershell Zone 8. Ray City, Ga.

PhilaGardener

Registered:1389014416
Posts: 199

Posted 1403435597	Reply with quote #6

Yes, those look really robust! Mine cuttings have great roots but a way to grow to get to that stage. Nice work! __________________ Philadelphia Gardener Near Philly, but winters still feeling like Zone 6!

ForeverFigs

Registered:1351425467
Posts: 1,062

Posted 1403441794	Reply with quote #7

Nice job Phil...you had a nice healthy root system to begin with, so you are well on your way to increased growth in the 5 gal. buckets...good luck....BTW, I use the unsifted pine bark mulch in my soil mix, and I find that it gives me better drainage so water does not pool around the root system. PS. Nice pics too. __________________ Vince Edison N.J. Zone 6b Wish List: LaRadek's EBT

drphil69

Registered:1390113240
Posts: 803

Posted 1403460738	Reply with quote #8

Wow, thanks for the wonderful responses. Nearly everything I learned about growing figs I learned here, so all of you really deserve some credit! I was more concerned that some of it was pine wood rather than bark. I think the idea with pine bark fines is to absorb and slowly release water as well as nutrients. Smaller pieces equals more surface area to absorb, so it would hold more and you could water less. That's probably very important in very hot and dry climates. Personally I would rather error on the side of drainage, which the bigger pieces I think provide. I was also curious if there were any other reasons not to use the bigger pieces. Figpit - I've been thinking about getting a chipper/shredder for just that reason. Well, for other uses too, like shredding leaves for compost, small branches, etc. __________________ Phil - Zone 7A - Newark, DE Newbie fig lover just trying to learn.

recomer20

Registered:1378013757
Posts: 402

Posted 1403474390	Reply with quote #9

Looking good, Phil! __________________ Rick C. Birmingham, AL z7b --- INGROUND: S.C.Lemon ("Dr.Welch"), LSUpurple, Celeste (Std) POTTED 3rd Yr: Alma, Atreano, BattGreen, GrnGreek, HardyChicago, ItalianBlack (Becnel), LSUGold?, MBvs, Sal's EL, Southern BT?, St.Jean, Jackie'sUnk POTTED 2nd Yr: SunbirdUnkJP, BourjNoire, JHAdriatic, ValleNegra ROOTING: RdB, ScottsBlk, BlkGreek-MN,Preto

susieqz

Registered:1372082549
Posts: 971

Posted 1403474662	Reply with quote #10

phil, if you use fines only, and stick to the 5-1-1 ratio, you will have a very fast draining mix. your mix won't drain properly because you used 3 parts compost. you may end up with perched water. next time, try sticking to the proper ratio and compare for yourself. using regular mulch won't cure this. the reason for screening to get fines is to regulate particle size. this is not hard to do. just buy a piece of 1/2'' hardware mesh and screen it. if you don't wanna do that, pet stores and amazon have fines under the name of reptibark. or, orchard supply stores have a very nice grade of fines in my opinion, properly made 5-1-1 is the perfect potting medium for any plant. the only thing i ever vary is lime, acid loving plants like the mix as is, but figs do need lime as 5-1-1 is acidic. __________________ susie wish list: nothing. i can't grow cuttings . right now, i have 6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.

DonCentralTexas

Registered:1390420422
Posts: 475

Posted 1403486850	Reply with quote #11

What ever your doing seems to be doing the trick...Great amount of healthy growth in such a short time! I bet they rocket after the up-pot. __________________ Don (Near Austin, TX zone 8b) If you have these for sale/trade PM me: Zingarella, Grantham's Royal, Calderona, Genovese Nero, Noir de Barbentane

drphil69

Registered:1390113240
Posts: 803

Posted 1403487136	Reply with quote #12

Quote: Originally Posted by susieqz phil, if you use fines only, and stick to the 5-1-1 ratio, you will have a very fast draining mix. your mix won't drain properly because you used 3 parts compost. you may end up with perched water. next time, try sticking to the proper ratio and compare for yourself. using regular mulch won't cure this. the reason for screening to get fines is to regulate particle size. this is not hard to do. just buy a piece of 1/2'' hardware mesh and screen it. if you don't wanna do that, pet stores and amazon have fines under the name of reptibark. or, orchard supply stores have a very nice grade of fines in my opinion, properly made 5-1-1 is the perfect potting medium for any plant. the only thing i ever vary is lime, acid loving plants like the mix as is, but figs do need lime as 5-1-1 is acidic. Thanks Susie. I understand the reason for screening is to get fines. What I and others were questioning is why does it have to be fines? Or more specifically, I wanted to know if there is any negative impact due to using the larger particles as well. __________________ Phil - Zone 7A - Newark, DE Newbie fig lover just trying to learn.

hoosierbanana

Registered:1287901146
Posts: 2,186

Posted 1403488694	Reply with quote #13

Dries quicker, like you said. And also has a lower CEC so won't hold onto ferts as much as fines. Alexanders Lawn and Garden in Newark carries Agway products. Their PBM is almost all bark and only has a few pieces over and inch. __________________ 7a, DE

drphil69

Registered:1390113240
Posts: 803

Posted 1403490728	Reply with quote #14

Quote: Originally Posted by hoosierbanana Dries quicker, like you said. And also has a lower CEC so won't hold onto ferts as much as fines. Alexanders Lawn and Garden in Newark carries Agway products. Their PBM is almost all bark and only has a few pieces over and inch. Thanks Brent! I was just looking at agway PBM and it looks very fine. I'll stop by there and see what they have. __________________ Phil - Zone 7A - Newark, DE Newbie fig lover just trying to learn.

Rich60

Registered:1398748769
Posts: 46

Posted 1403492858	Reply with quote #15

Great looking plant Phil I use Agway PBM and love it great mix mostly all bark fines i mix it with Pro-mix HP . What brand lime are you using i tried HD lime the 40 lbs bag and it kill one of my Fig Trees it was Soil Doctor Pelletized LawnLime i put a very little on the top of the soil i know a lot of people use it but i am not so sure i will put lime in again they say it should be Dolomitic lime from near the ocean this brand is Dolomitic Lime but it all so said fast-Acting i am knew here so i don't know if it was wrong to put on top because i see a lot of people mix it in there mix . Well again great job with the plant it looks great . Rich :)

Figaro

Registered:1360799941
Posts: 436

Posted 1403495520	Reply with quote #16

Quote: Originally Posted by Rich60 Great looking plant Phil I use Agway PBM and love it great mix mostly all bark fines i mix it with Pro-mix HP . What brand lime are you using i tried HD lime the 40 lbs bag and it kill one of my Fig Trees it was Soil Doctor Pelletized LawnLime i put a very little on the top of the soil i know a lot of people use it but i am not so sure i will put lime in again they say it should be Dolomitic lime from near the ocean this brand is Dolomitic Lime but it all so said fast-Acting i am knew here so i don't know if it was wrong to put on top because i see a lot of people mix it in there mix . Well again great job with the plant it looks great . Rich :) Rich, I believe where you really went wrong was with the "fast acting" and I've seen warnings to stay away from pelletized, but I believe that's because most pelletized is fast-acting. __________________ ============================ [B]Figaro Zone 10b - South Florida[/I] Growing: Black Mission, Strawberry Verte, LSU Hollier, LSU Purple, LSU Scotts Black, Cajun Gold, Panachee, Excel, UCR 291-4, UCR 143-36, Violette de Bordeaux, Ronde de Bordeaux, Calvert, Black Madeira, Col De Dame Blanc Wish List: CdDN, CdDG, Ischia Black, Galicia Negra ============================

Rich60

Registered:1398748769
Posts: 46

Posted 1403498799	Reply with quote #17

Hey Figaro So what kind should i use i have post before but no reply i am trying to find out the brand every body is using this is the lime Bill's Figs uses its the same brand but says Granular limestone mine says Pettetized i guess your right Pettetized will kill as i know now. Thanks for your feed back . Rich :)

Rich60

Registered:1398748769
Posts: 46

Posted 1403503245	Reply with quote #18

Hey Figaro I found the right stuff Bill's Fig's uses it's Granula Limestone .

Charley

Registered:1401162922
Posts: 63

Posted 1403527181	Reply with quote #19

Quote: Originally Posted by Rich60 Hey Figaro So what kind should i use i have post before but no reply i am trying to find out the brand every body is using this is the lime Bill's Figs uses its the same brand but says Granular limestone mine says Pettetized i guess your right Pettetized will kill as i know now. Thanks for your feed back . Rich :) The difference is that the Pelletized has been ground very fine, into dust. Farmers use it that way to spread on fields to get a quick reaction and fast availability. That dust can be formed into pellets with a binder for easier and cleaner application. Once wetted it is immediately available and will immediately affect the soil pH and availability of other minerals. The grannular form is crushed but is just like very small gravel. It takes years and years for it to dissolve. One way to think about it is to consider pelletized lime as powdered sugar and the grannular as rock candy that takes much longer to disolve. Of course the time scale is decades rather than hours. __________________ Zone 6a - Kentucky

rcantor

Registered:1309799312
Posts: 5,727

Posted 1403542888	Reply with quote #20

My potting mix is mostly large pine bark chunks with additives like worm castings. I mix the small chunks like what you have into my pro-mix because they hold water. As long as all the small pine bark chips aren't at the bottom layered tightly creating a swamp you should be ok. The compost is all fine particles so that may also create swampy conditions as has been mentioned. Stick your finger in the drainage hole after watering to check. I'll use a handful or 2 of a compost/worm casting/napa floor dry/Espoma mix for every 4-5" deep of large pine chunks in a pot. The fine particle stuff isn't 1/2 of the mix. __________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.

Rich60

Registered:1398748769
Posts: 46

Posted 1403556656	Reply with quote #21

Thanks Guys for all your help. Rich

blueboy1977

Registered:1375760370
Posts: 459

Posted 1403557124	Reply with quote #22

I got so tired of trying to find a good pine bark mulch for potting meduim! Every thing around hear is full of white wood and trying to sift it out is a night mare to say the least. Ive resorted to one of two ways. They sell large pine bark chunks here which I dump out on the drive way and remove all the white wood. Its bigger chuncks so its much eaiser to remove. Then I run over the pile of bark with my lawn mower with the bag on. Then I sift do a desired particle size. The other way is just to buy the Orchid Bark. Its all the perfect size but hard on the wallet. You got to pay to play I guess! The problem with white wood in a mix is that its not composted and when it gets wet in the potting mix the composting process begins. This can cause 2 problems that I know of. One, it heats up as it composts which isnt good. Second, it ties up N2 in the potting mix during the composting process. I have found with my blueberries that a mix high in white wood will require almost double the amount of N2 for the first few months untill the wood breaks down completely. After that the plants will respond nicely. It will slow the growth intially though and its very noticable with my plants. The leafs will yellow pretty quick and growth will come to a hault. I use a organic fert though so I imagine with figs using the MG fert or some other kind of weak chemcial fert every watering could potentially counter act the N2 binding up during the compost process. __________________ Rob Zone 9a/9b were the too meet. South Houston Tx Growing: Black Madeira, Smith, LSU Scott's Black, Improved Celeste, VDB, MBvs, RDB, Unknown Peach/Apricot, Salce, Malta Black, Texas BA-1, JH Adriatic, Atreano, CDDN, CDDB, CDDG, Strawberry Verte

Rich60

Registered:1398748769
Posts: 46

Posted 1403560493	Reply with quote #23

Hey Blueboy1977 Do you have an agway near you they have a pine bark mulch its great right out off the bag hardly any white wood at all i think it was like $6.00 and change . Rich

recomer20

Registered:1378013757
Posts: 402

Posted 1403574015	Reply with quote #24

May be a regional product, but Evergreen Soil Conditioner contains a lot of pine bark fines. A product of Muscle Shoals, AL, but found in all the local big box home improvement stores. I'm using it quite a bit this season for uppottings. Plants seem to really enjoy it as we get quite a bit of rain and the product seems to keep things from getting too soggy and compacted.http://www.walmart.com/ip/Evergreen-Soil-Conditioner-2-cu-ft/16793735 __________________ Rick C. Birmingham, AL z7b --- INGROUND: S.C.Lemon ("Dr.Welch"), LSUpurple, Celeste (Std) POTTED 3rd Yr: Alma, Atreano, BattGreen, GrnGreek, HardyChicago, ItalianBlack (Becnel), LSUGold?, MBvs, Sal's EL, Southern BT?, St.Jean, Jackie'sUnk POTTED 2nd Yr: SunbirdUnkJP, BourjNoire, JHAdriatic, ValleNegra ROOTING: RdB, ScottsBlk, BlkGreek-MN,Preto

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