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Jerry_M

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Posted Reply with quote  #301 
Haha, Zidi and Marabout were purchased by my ignorance. I just recently learned they are smyrna figs. I bought the cuttings based on the description of the fig. They are going to the trash. I don't think the wasp would live in Texas.

I am growing out 84 seedlings that may not yield a single common fig. There is no need to keep two more that are known to be smyrnas.:)
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Posted Reply with quote  #302 
I guess if it is a smyrna then no eatable brebas, I thought it was a san pedro.
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Posted Reply with quote  #303 
Got my cuttings in the cloner last night! Temp is staying around 72 degrees, so i think i'm golden on that front. Will monitor them and add some more rapidstart in 3 days time. Hopefully will have some progress in 3 weeks time to show some results!

20160203_101657-1280x720.jpg 

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Posted Reply with quote  #304 
My bottle of Clear-Rez arrived and I poured in several ounces.  After checking CL and PH, it looks like this stuff lowers PH, but has no effect on CL?  I've been adding PH up to counter but it doesn't seem to increase much.  Looking at the bottle, it is Hypochloros-Acid while HTH is Calcium-Hypochlorite and Clorox is sodium chloride.

It makes sense that the sodium in Clorox can be bad for plants.  But what is the deal with the acid in Clear-Rez lowering the PH?  I have some HTH coming and will wait for that to arrive before adding anything else.  that way, I can control the PH and chlorine independently.

Does anyone else have any experience with clear-rez lowering PH?
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Posted Reply with quote  #305 
I have not used it, but looking at the MSDS it lists the PH as 5 - 6.5 so it does seem that it would lower the PH from most tap water.  Maybe the Clear-Rez is buffered or pre-PH adjusted to make the chlorine more effective.

Calcium Hypochlorite definitely raises the PH.  Makes you wonder if all those articles stating that Clear-Rez and the HTH pool shock are the same, are correct.

The desired Chlorine levels are really low.  Maybe your test kit is just not showing it.  Do a chlorine test on straight Clear-Res or a 10:1 dilution.  I would bet the chlorine reading will be off the chart.

Right now I am sticking with straight water.  I damaged my cuttings with the Clorox and I can't afford to shorten the cuttings any more!  I have two cuttings that are really important to me, and they are only about 2.5 inches long at this point.  They have strong initials forming again and I am not messing with them or the water until they are out of the cloner!
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Smyfigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #306 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danw
OK Fine!  You guys are freaking me out.  I just changed out the water and dropped the temperature to 68 degrees.  I guess that is where water holds the most oxygen?

Anyway I will see how this goes.  I am slapping in some cuttings from my Osborn Prolific for an experiment.  I will get the cuttings nice and full of roots, then I will soak one of them in plain water and the other in water laced with the pool shock at 0.5 ppm.  I will then take lots of pictures and document what happens to each of the cuttings.


Dan


Great idea, Danw!  I will look forward to this.  Love it!
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Isaac1

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Posted Reply with quote  #307 
Calcium Hyopochlorite has a net effect of being almost pH neutral, however it will initially cause a pH spike which will then drop as the chlorine is consumed in organic reactions.and out gasing.

p.s. I too have cuttings in a cloner, in my case I have 12 cuttings in a home built tote cloner with an ultrasonic fogger plugged into a temperature controlled outlet box set to cut out if temperature of the water reaches 82F, temperature tends to stay around 75 F except in the afternoon sun when it may cut off on overheat from time to time (room temp ranges from 70-75F).  I am on day 9 so am hopeful I will start to see some action soon.  I have searched many threads here and never could find any information on optimal temperature, so I thought under 82F is probably safe based on other plants.
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Posted Reply with quote  #308 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac1
     ... I thought under 82F is probably safe based on other plants.




  Isaac,

    I am the furthest thing from a cloner expert that one might be...    but I'll just pass along my experience with those warmer temps:   31 of my 32 cuttings rotted with avg temperatures of 80*.   At 71*, I'm having better luck, but using these cloners on these 2nd yr+ wood cuttings is looking to be fraught with much more likelihood of cutting decomposition than using green cuttings that the Happy-Smoke folks are cloning.      YMMV

    Blue
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Posted Reply with quote  #309 
I am learning as I go, with the rest of you.
Reading on line 68 degrees seems to be the optimal temp for oxygen retention
in the water. I was running before at 77-80 degrees and I think I cooked em.
After dropping the water temp and wrapping the sides of the cloner with
insulation (thin foam sheets) it holds water temps steady.
My cloner holds 12-13 gallon and I installed a 50 watt aquarium heater.
I have a digital tester to monitor water temps. I had a couple fresh (a few cuttings sitting in the crisper drawer for a year) and added those. 2 have rooted in 2 weeks and have been transplanted
into cups.
Next I will add a big air stone for extra oxygen in the water,
I also have 3 varieties of tomatoes growing in the cloner and they seem quite happy.

One revision that I made to the sprayer heads is used dremel with a cut off wheel to angle the top of the slot at
a upwards angle. now they spray up and out instead of just straight out.
It works better.

I also use Superthrive, but not at their recommended amount, just for trace minerals.
This is a new learning process and I am sure having fun at it.
Take care all

Doug
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thepodpiper

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Posted Reply with quote  #310 
I did not go through all 300+ replies so this may or may not have been mentioned already but does someone have a trick to getting the foam inserts holes enlarged to fit the cuttings better?
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GreenFin

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Posted Reply with quote  #311 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluemalibu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac1
     ... I thought under 82F is probably safe based on other plants.
Isaac,

    I am the furthest thing from a cloner expert that one might be...    but I'll just pass along my experience with those warmer temps:   31 of my 32 cuttings rotted with avg temperatures of 80*.   At 71*, I'm having better luck, but using these cloners on these 2nd yr+ wood cuttings is looking to be fraught with much more likelihood of cutting decomposition than using green cuttings that the Happy-Smoke folks are cloning.      YMMV

    Blue

I'm disappointed with how my woody cuttings are doing, too.

I bought my cloners for handling green cuttings, but my first test run started 3 weeks ago is all woody cuttings...and they're all rotting.  Above the reservoir they're fine and leafing out and look great, but under the plastic they're all going to mush, and all roots and root initials just turn brown right away.

My tap water is extremely hard and has a pH over 8, but I have figs flourishing in aquaponics systems that have a pH over 8, so I don't see why that would be a major problem.

I got some calcium hypochlorite and maintain low chlorine levels, so that's not the problem.  Temps are consistently around 70-72F.

One thing it might be is that I added some Clonex nutrient solution to the reservoir when I was first starting, so the water has been rich (high in nitrates, etc).  I'm not talking about Clonex rooting gel (though I did use that, too), I'm talking about their big 32oz bottle of nutrient solution.   

I'll do another run with different cuttings and no nutrient solution to see if I get better results.  If that doesn't work, I'll try another run with the pH forced down to 6.5 or so.  If that still doesn't work, I may just give up for now on using cloners for woody cuttings, especially since the cup/humidity bin method has been such a reliable method for me.
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Bluemalibu

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Posted Reply with quote  #312 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFin

I'm disappointed with how my woody cuttings are doing, too...  they're all going to mush


  Sorry that you too are experiencing the curse of the cloner, James.

   On a little brighter note, between the several scion exchanges, I collected enough cuttings to perhaps allow you to start about six Hative d' Argentueil plants.  PM me an address to ship them to you.

   Blue
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #313 
James, I'm so sorry for your loss. I really am. I recommend trying again in late spring. This is my third year using the cloner. My first attempts were dry runs using the 5gal bucket. I tried them in Summer and Fall. Each time the cuttings ....all the cuttings died. However, the system does work. It's my go to method now for cloning. I do tinker around with other methods. Here in the Southeast the weather fluctuates a lot. And figs grow very well but every 5, 7, or 10 years, we receive a sever freeze. The mount Etna types are hard to kill here and the same goes for a few others like Desert King. But in my clmate gnats are everywhere ! They can kill newly rooted cutting in no time which is why I have not potted up those inside my EZ cloner 64. All 64 cuttings rooted.

I do hydrate my cutting first before placing them in the cloner.....sometimes for a whole day in plain water. I also cut the bottom off, score it, add rooting gel with a brush, and then in the cloner. A do add the Hydrogen perixiode every couple of days but some times I forget even though I have a repeat event reminder on my phone. So, give it another try. For me, fig cuttings are ready to pot up in 17-20 days depending on the freshness of the cutting. And again the beauty of it all for me is, no gnats.

Cheers!
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #314 
Thanks everyone for all of your comments!!! Soon JV will lock this post. It's one of the highest post replied upon! That makes me smile!

Wishing everyone an amazing fig year!!!
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Dennis
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Jerry_M

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Posted Reply with quote  #315 
Dennis, looks like you will need to start a "Clone your cuttings & never see gnats!" Part 2. :)
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Jerry
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Posted Reply with quote  #316 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluemalibu
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFin

I'm disappointed with how my woody cuttings are doing, too...  they're all going to mush


  Sorry that you too are experiencing the curse of the cloner, James.

   On a little brighter note, between the several scion exchanges, I collected enough cuttings to perhaps allow you to start about six Hative d' Argentueil plants.  PM me an address to ship them to you.

   Blue

My goodness that sure is kind, thank you :)
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GreenFin

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Posted Reply with quote  #317 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snaglpus
James, I'm so sorry for your loss. I really am. I recommend trying again in late spring. This is my third year using the cloner. My first attempts were dry runs using the 5gal bucket. I tried them in Summer and Fall. Each time the cuttings ....all the cuttings died. However, the system does work. It's my go to method now for cloning. I do tinker around with other methods. Here in the Southeast the weather fluctuates a lot. And figs grow very well but every 5, 7, or 10 years, we receive a sever freeze. The mount Etna types are hard to kill here and the same goes for a few others like Desert King. But in my clmate gnats are everywhere ! They can kill newly rooted cutting in no time which is why I have not potted up those inside my EZ cloner 64. All 64 cuttings rooted. I do hydrate my cutting first before placing them in the cloner.....sometimes for a whole day in plain water. I also cut the bottom off, score it, add rooting gel with a brush, and then in the cloner. A do add the Hydrogen perixiode every couple of days but some times I forget even though I have a repeat event reminder on my phone. So, give it another try. For me, fig cuttings are ready to pot up in 17-20 days depending on the freshness of the cutting. And again the beauty of it all for me is, no gnats. Cheers!

Thanks for the kind words, Dennis!  And thanks for starting and continuing to reply to this great thread :)

I was disappointed and frustrated earlier, and that tone probably came through in my post, but I'll keep working at it.  I'm a believer in the concept and think that I'm just encountering a water chemistry problem in my system. 
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thepodpiper

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Posted Reply with quote  #318 
Great thread. Thought I would throw out a couple pics of my new cloner sprinkler heads. Started out with just the two heads on the ends but just did not quite get the middle, then after putting in the two blue spinning 360's they alone would have been enough. Great coverage.  Pvc is not glued.


  20160207_174616_resized.jpg 

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thepodpiper

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Posted Reply with quote  #319 
With this head I started with just the red but added the blues due to just barely missing the ends it is now a little overkill but excellent coverage.

Again, no glue on the pvc. 20160207_164033_resized.jpg 

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Posted Reply with quote  #320 
Thepodpiper, looking good and welcome to the club of clones. Let us know more of your set up and keep us informed of your successes and/or miss steps. BTW, Dennis is club president.
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #321 
LOL Dave!
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Isaac1

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Posted Reply with quote  #322 
Well my cuttings are not looking good, I am at day 15 with the ultrasonic fogger and only 2 stems have just the smallest hint of roots forming with no visible change to them in the last 2 days.  If I don't see progress in another 4 or 5 days I am thinking about tossing them and starting over changing a few details, cycle timer, etc.
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Posted Reply with quote  #323 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac1
Well my cuttings are not looking good, I am at day 15 with the ultrasonic fogger and only 2 stems have just the smallest hint of roots forming with no visible change to them in the last 2 days.  If I don't see progress in another 4 or 5 days I am thinking about tossing them and starting over changing a few details, cycle timer, etc.


Don't toss them unless they are rotting.  Sometimes it takes a long time.  I had some take over a month before doing anything.  But then they took off.


Dan
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Posted Reply with quote  #324 
New to figs. Growing in Maine and hoping for good results. Using a cloner with 128 stations and a bulk order from driveway farmer in NH. I'm about 5 weeks into rooting and it's cool to see which strains grow fastest. Some took 4 weeks before fresh green. Other took just days. I have found the strains to be very specific. If one sent out quick shoots, all of that strain sent out quick shoots, and vice Versace. Lots of fun!
I'm using 2x 4' small diameter t5 with a good spectrum of light for rooting.

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Rick_Josef1

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Posted Reply with quote  #325 
Florea, O rourke, hardy Hartford, Malta black, MBVS and Vista were all slow to very slow. RDB , conadria and Adriatic were all my quick growers. Florea, O rourke and MBVS are dead slow but still giving a tiny bit of green.
*** I'm cloning in a 69 degree heated basement and I did not use a light until about 3 weeks in. I figure in the dark down there there is less chance of fungal growth. Also cuts down on electrical usage. I figure with no leaves the cuttings are not missing anything.
Jerry_M

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Posted Reply with quote  #326 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac1
Well my cuttings are not looking good, I am at day 15 with the ultrasonic fogger and only 2 stems have just the smallest hint of roots forming with no visible change to them in the last 2 days.  If I don't see progress in another 4 or 5 days I am thinking about tossing them and starting over changing a few details, cycle timer, etc.


Don't toss them unless they are rotting.  Sometimes it takes a long time.  I had some take over a month before doing anything.  But then they took off.


Dan
Some of a batch I started Jan 9th are just now showing signs of tiny roots. I'd wait before throwing them out if I were you, unless they are rotting as danw suggested.
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Jerry
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thepodpiper

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Posted Reply with quote  #327 
Should I have direct light on the cuttings in cloner as soon as I put them in or is indirect light good. I know what type of light to use just not sure of the right time to add the light.

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Posted Reply with quote  #328 
thepodpiper - I have a single 2 bulb 4 foot shop light above my cloner - about a foot and a half above.  This is much higher than I use on my seedlings or rooted cuttings.  I'm more concerned about roots than leaves - I figure a rooted cutting can leaf out when it wants, but if it leafs out before the roots come, it's a goner.


DanW - A few of my December cuttings are just deciding to show signs of life.  I had a really thin Black Jack; half rotted and I recut it. Now it has some roots coming off the new bottom.


Andrew
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Posted Reply with quote  #329 
I run my lighting on a 30min on/ 30min off cycle. I have room for 4 bulbs in my light but only use 2. Don't want to burn new growth. Also, I change my water every 2 weeks.. Getting great results. Be patient. Some are quick to root, others take more time. Up to a month. My system is just sprayed water from underneath (aeroponic) not a fogger.
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Posted Reply with quote  #330 
Rick, are you seeing any roots at all on your cuttings?
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Posted Reply with quote  #331 
It is getting time for my first water change and cleaning. My question is how have you guys cleaned and sanitized your system? Thanks. Rick, when you change your water, what do you do with your cuttings that were in the cloner? Do you let the water come back to operation temps before reintroducing them?
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Posted Reply with quote  #332 
Rick, are you seeing any roots at all on your cuttings?

YES I'm getting good roots!! I am noticing the cuttings with smaller leaf growth are sending out smaller root number and those with bigger leaves are sending out much more. All are rooting though.

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Posted Reply with quote  #333 
Rick, when you change your water, what do you do with your cuttings that were in the cloner? Do you let the water come back to operation temps before reintroducing them?

I make sure the cuttings just received a 30 minute on cycle before water change. Also my 30 on/off timer is tied into both my sprayer and light so that each is on/off at the same time.I keep all the cuttings in the top half of the unit and just put it off to the side. I then drain and fill with 70 degree water after a quick wipe down of the bottom. I do not use fertilizer or food. The roots get more than enough of these just from the air mixing with the water. Also my water is well water so trace elements necessary for growth are already in place.
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Posted Reply with quote  #334 
Very interesting reading. It will help with your cloning just from the increase in knowledge.
I am guessing trees and plants function and grow via the same principals.
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/where_do_trees_get_their_mass_from
Rick_Josef1

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Posted Reply with quote  #335 
So in other words, people that keep low light conditions when rooting are actually robbing the plants of the necessary carbon it requires for growth. It's best to find a happy medium where you do not burn new growth, but still give a surplus of light and CO2 above, while giving oxygen and nitrogen and trace elements below.
PS. Light and CO2 have no use before leaves are visible, so bombard the root system with as much oxygen and nitrogen (air and water) as possible until you see green. Happy cloning!
Jerry_M

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Posted Reply with quote  #336 
It's been about 4 weeks since my first batch was started. Yesterday all the cuttings were transferred to the bag method to continue the rooting process. About a cup of bleach was added to the 2 gal reservoir and the system was allowed to run through its cycle 2 min on 20 min off for several hours. The unit was washed with hot soapy water, rinsed and new water added. New cuttings were added for the second batch.
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Posted Reply with quote  #337 
Thanks guys, good info.
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Brooklynmatty

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Posted Reply with quote  #338 
This is 12 days in the cloner. I had to throw out one cutting since it was in bad shape. I have a few cuttings that are getting goop on the scores or on the bud scars, this isn't happening with all of them. Wondering if I should scrape off slime as I see it or let it go.

Got some funky root initials and callouses coming along though

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Please use the following thread if your growing my "unknown Sheepshead" to track your progress.
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/saved-brooklyn-tree-unknown-sheepshead-community-growlog-7808733?pid=1290171384

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Posted Reply with quote  #339 
Matt, good question, I have one showing the goop substance and was wondering the same thing. I have cleaned it off in the past, but it keep coming back. Only the same cutting.
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Rick_Josef1

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Posted Reply with quote  #340 
BrooklynnMatty
If I may ask... I see from your pictures that you have what appears to be "cling wrap" on the tops of your cuttings. Am I correct? And if so, is it designed to hold in moisture?
Thanks
Rick
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Posted Reply with quote  #341 
As far as the Slime... I got slimed 2 years ago when I first got my cloner. I tried putting nutrients/fertilizer in the water thinking it would help growth. I believe that's what caused my problem. Now I keep my clones in the cloner for up to 3 months and only use a bit of rooting powder in my reservoir at the beginning. Nothing else but fresh well water there after. I can't honestly tell what is going on under your hood, but I do know that water doesn't usually slime up unless bad bacteria or fungus is given a surplus of food. I would drain, wipe, rinse and fill with A LOT of water and nothing else. Change the water every week. Block any light that might get into the reservoir. Try to starve the growth before it kills your clones. If all else fails go to Walmart and look in the aquarium department. Google search for any fungicide/ Anti-bacterial they have on shelf and see if it comes up safe for live aquatic plants. Then use as directed. Just a few ideas. Hope it helps.
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Posted Reply with quote  #342 
Hey Matt.....Why do you have your cuttings wrapped up?? 
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Brooklynmatty

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Posted Reply with quote  #343 
Rick - its buddy tape. It's a type of grafting tape to prevent moisture loss.

Frank - I used the buddy tape due to low humidity in my office and try and help prevent desiccation of the cuttings above the cloner. Similar to Tim clymers method for low ambient humidity. Once they start getting roots and leaves, I'm sure the film isn't needed anymore. I used parafilm and buddy tape on all my methods this year.

I heard somewhere that the slime might just be latex from the cuttings since its only coming from bud scar and scores, no where else.

I will probably change water in a few days, scrape off the excess latex/slime and see how it goes. The cuttings still look great.
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Matt - Long Island - Zone 7B
Wishlist: CDD Roja, Planera, CDD Rimada

Please use the following thread if your growing my "unknown Sheepshead" to track your progress.
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/saved-brooklyn-tree-unknown-sheepshead-community-growlog-7808733?pid=1290171384
kennyrayandersen

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Posts: 26
Posted Reply with quote  #344 
I wanted to try to do some cloning, and a buddy of mine had built a cloner, and he wasn't using it, so I borrowed it. He said I could do what I wanted to it; so...


 hydro_1.jpg

I added some sprayers. The ones on the periphery are 180 degree nozzles, and the ones in the center are 360 degree nozzles.

 hydro_2.jpg 

in the bucket -- note that the cord coming in has had plastic taped over the top of it to prevent leaks.

hydro_3.jpg

I ran plastic from below the  sprayers, and up over the top of the sides. When the lid is on the plastic is then wrapped over the lid top so that there are no leaks whatsoever.

 hydro_4.jpg

24 slots filled up

 hydro_5.jpg

several varieties waiting for roots!

Right now I'm running a repeat timer (http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/westek-timer-hack-7933481?pid=1290912792) @ 1:50 on 12 minutes off (the timer fluctuates just a bit)

FYI, I did gel, let it sit for a couple of hours and then fired it up. The cloning liquid recommended 5 ml/liter. I had roughly 24 liters, so I put in 120 ml

I will report back.

Attached Images
jpeg hydro_6.jpg (83.87 KB, 16 views)


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Zone 8b

Just trying not to kill them!

DaveL

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Posts: 247
Posted Reply with quote  #345 
Looks like a great system. Some nice cuttings also. Keep us updated on your progress.
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Dave
Waterford, Ct. Zone 6B
Jerry_M

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Posted Reply with quote  #346 
Looks good, Kennyray.
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Jerry
Canyon Lake, TX 8b
Wanted: Cajun Gold, Louisiana Honey, Schar Israel-114 grams
Isaac1

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Posts: 19
Posted Reply with quote  #347 
So how is everyone potting up their rooted cuttings when they come out of the cloner, and how much root development are you allowing the the cloner before potting?
DaveL

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Posts: 247
Posted Reply with quote  #348 
Good question, since I haven't potted any up yet, I would also like to know.
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Dave
Waterford, Ct. Zone 6B
Jerry_M

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Posted Reply with quote  #349 
At 4-5 weeks I moved all cuttings from cloner to bags. Roots ranged from 0 to many. One cutting was starting rot. It was a tip cutting with old bark and nodes close as in one on top of the other, probably not a viable cutting for rooting in a cloner. I cut away the rot and stuck it in a bag because it was leafing out.

I then added about a cup of bleach to the 2 gal reservoir and let the cloner cycle for several hours. Then washed with hot soapy water, rinsed and refilled with tap water, adjusted ph to around 6.5 and started a 2nd bath of cuttings.

Attached Images
jpeg 20160214_235523.jpg (890.45 KB, 18 views)


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Jerry
Canyon Lake, TX 8b
Wanted: Cajun Gold, Louisiana Honey, Schar Israel-114 grams

APORTO

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Posts: 101
Posted Reply with quote  #350 
I am around week 20 with the cloner.  Here are my thoughts.  Fig cuttings, not so good.  It looks like some roots are forming, but barely visible, sort of like Brooklynmatty's pics.  Plants and seeds are doing much better.  I have strawberry, pineberry, tomato seeds, and melon seeds.  The Pineberries did the best growing thick white roots that stretched down to the water.  The tomatoes and a hot pepper seed all germinated and are growing nicely.  The melon did not germinate.  Then I added HTH.  I checked the Cl at 1.0 ppm.  This turned all the thick white roots an ugly brown.  Fortunately, the plants showed no ill signs above ground and after a week or so, I see signs of white growth on the roots.
Conclusion: HTH is not a safe alternative to clear-rez.  Aeroponics  benefit plants more than rooting.  I had found a video on Youtube explaining this, but I can't locate it.

I found the posting:

If you go to 7min, the gentleman explains that the aeroponic system started out slower than drip and soil.  It wasn't until the root system developed before the aeroponic plants overtook the others.  Which means potting once roots form is preventing the system from benefiting from its major advantage.
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6B-7A - Woodbridge, CT
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