Napa's Floor Dry question

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greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1417654175 · Edited	Reply with quote #1

I stopped by at a Napa's store and got a bag of their Oil Absorbent (Floor Dry) to use for a soil mix. The particle size was a bit smaller than I expected, about a third of a corn kernel. Is this the right stuff or they sell some other Oil Absorbent that comes in larger particles? Could you post a photo if yes, please? Thanks! Here is a stock photo I found online that represents what I mean: __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

Ampersand

Registered:1389979527
Posts: 728

Posted 1417655544	Reply with quote #2

Was it this one? http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Oil-Absorbent-24-QT-Diatomaceous-Earth-Absorbent/_/R-NFQ8822_0189041133 Haven't gotten it yet, but it's what what recommended by hoosierbanana. ascpete also mentioned using this: http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/safe-t-sorbtrade%3B-oil-absorbent-40-lb

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1417656125	Reply with quote #3

Kelby, It is the one from your first link, Diatomaceous Earth. The second link points to Montmorillonite clay which may work in a similar way but I have not tried it yet. __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

needaclone

Registered:1346812939
Posts: 604

Posted 1417656340	Reply with quote #4

Greenfig, I wonder if that stock photo shows sifted or unsifted Floor Dry. Those particles in the image actually look pretty big (i.e. a good size) to me. The equivalent calcined clay product I get from Advanced Auto Parts has a much larger range of sizes, including very small pieces and some powder, that really should be sifted out. Also, note that DE (diatomaceous earth) IS different than the calcined clay used in Napa floor dry and turface and such... Cheers, Jim __________________ Clarksburg, NJ - Zone 6b Wishlist - A wise man recommended: Nero600M . Malta Black . Tacoma (Takoma) Violet . Gino's . Adriatic JH . Vista Mission . Florea . Atreano . ...also...RdB, Bethlehem Black, Negronne, Grise de St. Jean, Livano, Col de Dame Blanc/Gris/Noir, Vasilika Sika, Longue D'Aout, Italian 258, Pennsylvania 6-5000

bada_bing

Registered:1352361905
Posts: 59

Posted 1417656347	Reply with quote #5

I've used NAPA part #8822 as a mix component for several years. It looks similar to the photo posted. It is recommended as a substitute component for "5-1-1 gritty mix" which was originally formulated for potted citrus trees and works very nicely for figs. It drains fast and holds quite a bit of air and water. Good stuff, but it requires a good, regular fertilizer program and it doesn't hold enough water for extended dry spells in hot climates without regular watering __________________ bada_bing in Tucson, zone 9a or at work in Prudhoe bay, I don't think the zones go that low My in ground trees: VdB, Panache My potted figs : Vista, RdB, Strawberry verte, Atreano, Black Madeira Tissue culture plants: Hardy Chicago, "Blue" Ischia, Desert King, LSU Purple, Kadota, Celeste Hope to find: CdDx, Maltese Beauty, BlacK Ischia, desert adapted figs

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1417656522	Reply with quote #6

Greenfig, Kelby's links show the correct products... They should also say "Calcined" on the label, Calcined clay or Calcined Diatomaceous Earth. The product from Tractor Supply is Calcined clay and is 1/2 the price of the NAPA Floor Dry #8822.

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1417657096 · Edited	Reply with quote #7

Thanks, guys! Pete, I paid $7.99 for a 24 qts bag, I am not sure about the Tractor Supply's price but what I paid is not bad. It is local and I do not pay for shipping. Anybody tried to root (or grow) the cuttings in this without mixing with anything else? It seems the absorption is quite high and there will be enough oxygen for the young roots and not much free water. Also, the gnats might not like this too! I have a few cuttings in a box with coco and will try to pot them up in a cup with Napa 8822 next. This link is quite interesting: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0210341723793.html?90 __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1417657245	Reply with quote #8

Quote: Originally Posted by needaclone Greenfig, I wonder if that stock photo shows sifted or unsifted Floor Dry. Those particles in the image actually look pretty big (i.e. a good size) to me. The equivalent calcined clay product I get from Advanced Auto Parts has a much larger range of sizes, including very small pieces and some powder, that really should be sifted out. Also, note that DE (diatomaceous earth) IS different than the calcined clay used in Napa floor dry and turface and such... Cheers, Jim Jim, It is possible that the photo displays the sifted Floor Dry. My bag has some smaller particles but not too much, it is not like a perlite bag with lots of dust. I can live with this or sift a little. __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1417657683	Reply with quote #9

Greenfig, A 40lb bag at Tractor supply is $6.00... Yes, several members including myself have tried rooting in a high % absorbent mix. in my experience it works but the calcined Clay locks up too much moisture and becomes a problem when it needs to be watered. Its better used as a smaller portion of varied mix. BTW, I've also rooted cuttings in the Gritty Mix successfully, its the 1-1-1 ratio all sifted. Pine Bark Fines - Crushed Granite (Pullet Grit) - Calcined Clay. Good Luck.

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1417658092	Reply with quote #10

Wow, ok $6 for 40lb is hard to beat! Pete, thanks for the suggestions. I have a bag of small bark fines (Orchid's bark, about a pea size particles, very uniform), will try your mix too. I like that it is going to be heavier than a perlite+coco mix I currently use. The cups will be much more stable. How often do you water and fertilize the cuttings in the Pine Bark Fines - Crushed Granite (Pullet Grit) - Calcined Clay mix? __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1417659892	Reply with quote #11

Greenfig, You're welcome. The Gritty Mix was introduced by Al Tapla at GardenWeb. I don't currently use that mix to root or grow cuttings My Current method is rooting cuttings in a sifted 1-1-1-1/2 mix (Bark Fines - Coco Coir - Perlite - Calcined Clay) directly in 2 Liter Soda Bottle SIPs. They are fertigated as soon as roots are visible. The SIPs and Fertigation schedules were posted under my topics earlier this year. The larger particles are sifted with a window screen sieve.

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1417689775	Reply with quote #12

Pete, Yes, I have read many posts at Gardenweb about the Gritty Mix and the 5-1-1. Tapla is a very patient man explaining all the benefits and shortcomings of his mixes in great details. It was 2 or so years ago, when I was looking for a citrus container mix. Since then I decided to plant the lemons/oranges in the ground and they like it there very much. Now it is more about them figs :) __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

Ampersand

Registered:1389979527
Posts: 728

Posted 1417701985	Reply with quote #13

Does anyone know if these products can be used in replacement of Turface in the Gritty Mix? I can't imagine you can get a better price for that type of product than from TSC. I'd like to try the gritty mix, but I don't think it's too easy to get around here and I'm sure it'll cost me.

DonCentralTexas

Registered:1390420422
Posts: 475

Posted 1417702543	Reply with quote #14

With the 1-1-1 gritty mix of Pine Bark Fines, Turface (calcined clay), granite grit does one still need Dolomite? If so how much Dolomite per one gallon of mix? Thanks __________________ Don (Near Austin, TX zone 8b) If you have these for sale/trade PM me: Zingarella, Grantham's Royal, Calderona, Genovese Nero, Noir de Barbentane

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1417702797 · Edited	Reply with quote #15

Kelby, Turface is a calcined clay product and so is the Tractor supply Oil Absorbent. I've used the Tractor supply Oil Absorbent instead of Turface, but make sure the bag specifically says *Calcined Clay*. http://www.turface.com/sites/default/files/landscape_brochure.pdf Good Luck. Don, Here are a few links to the Gritty Mix recipes... http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg1216020727009.html http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg031028425011.html Good Luck.

Ampersand

Registered:1389979527
Posts: 728

Posted 1417704341	Reply with quote #16

Thanks, Pete! If I have duplicates I'll to do a trial comparing some mixes next year....5-1-1, 5-1-1-1, Gritty, and my own "whatever is in the shed" mix.

zone5figger

Registered:1395082963
Posts: 250

Posted 1417705066	Reply with quote #17

Biochar is supposed to offer benefits of both peat and perlite in a pottings mix, pushes pH towards alkaline, and provide additional bonus of a carbon negative ingredient. 'Super' enough? http://www.biochar-international.org/node/4268 __________________ Jesse- zone 5, 1000' elevation

Ampersand

Registered:1389979527
Posts: 728

Posted 1417706565	Reply with quote #18

I wrote a term paper in college about bio-char (terra preta) in the Amazon, it's neat stuff.

needaclone

Registered:1346812939
Posts: 604

Posted 1417706949	Reply with quote #19

That Tractor Supply price is very good. The equivalent product at Advance Auto Parts (Moltan Thrifty Sorb) is about $8.50 for a 40 lb bag. Jim __________________ Clarksburg, NJ - Zone 6b Wishlist - A wise man recommended: Nero600M . Malta Black . Tacoma (Takoma) Violet . Gino's . Adriatic JH . Vista Mission . Florea . Atreano . ...also...RdB, Bethlehem Black, Negronne, Grise de St. Jean, Livano, Col de Dame Blanc/Gris/Noir, Vasilika Sika, Longue D'Aout, Italian 258, Pennsylvania 6-5000

eboone

Registered:1378418906
Posts: 1,100

Posted 1417713597	Reply with quote #20

Just slightly off subject - the granite grit is rather expensive around here, sold for grit to help with digestion for your chickens. Small bag at Tractor Supply cost much more than the 40 lb bag of Oil Absorb. No granite mountains around here to go collect my own decomposed granite like I did out West __________________ Ed Zone 6A - Southwest PA --------------------------- Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid), Col Littman's Black Cross. And any cold hardy early fig.

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1417715059	Reply with quote #21

Ed, Pullet or Layer Grit is available locally at my local Feed Store for ~ $8.00 for 50lb bag. It may also be available at Agway in larger bags at a lower price. Good Luck.

GregMartin

Registered:1370378358
Posts: 550

Posted 1417742035	Reply with quote #22

Jesse/Kelby, I think that hydrophilic biochar would be the best option, but I've only worked with it in mixes. This winter I plan to start working with it as the major or only component for seed starting and potted plant apps. Once I finish trialing I promise to post results. I've worked with Napa's floor dry and it has amazing capacity to hold water while leaving good air access to the roots. Having said that I found that it had negative impact on the citrus seedlings I trialed in it unless I pre-burned it out in a fire. The bag I bought had a noticeable hydrocarbon smell when I saturated it with water. After I burned it off in a fire that smell went away. I blame those residual hydrocarbons on the poor plant performance. So beware! For it's intended use there's no reason for them to eliminate all the hydrocarbons that are frequently found in diatomite. Calcined clay products won't have that issue. __________________ zone 5 Maine Seeking: Saint Martin, Naples White, Black Tuscan, Bécane, French Alps, Abruzzi, Tenica, Wild Mountain Figs from the coldest corners (Iranian, Turkish or other...would love seeds too)

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1417743178	Reply with quote #23

Greg, What was the problem you experienced with the citrus seedlings? Just the smell or the propertied of the Floor Dry's particles too? __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

GregMartin

Registered:1370378358
Posts: 550

Posted 1417772624	Reply with quote #24

The seedlings were growing out more slowly in mixes that had a large percentage of out of the bag Floor Dry compared to other mixes I was experimenting with. This was not the case when I burned whatever was in the Floor Dry. Maybe at smaller percentages it wouldn't be noticeable. I was experimenting with mixes that had little to no organics as I was curious about potting mix options that wouldn't rot over time. __________________ zone 5 Maine Seeking: Saint Martin, Naples White, Black Tuscan, Bécane, French Alps, Abruzzi, Tenica, Wild Mountain Figs from the coldest corners (Iranian, Turkish or other...would love seeds too)

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1417787390 · Edited	Reply with quote #25

Interesting ... I do not remember anybody mentioned this on the GW forum or here. I potted up 6 cuttings in a mix with the out-of-the-bag Floor Dry, about 25% the volume, will see how they grow. Thanks for experimenting and mentioning! __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

Charlie

Registered:1404043833
Posts: 1,214

Posted 1443750330	Reply with quote #26

How did this work, or not? I've been researching calcined clay and guess where I landed? Right back at f4f lol. Seems for varieties that are said to be hard to root due to excess moisture, it might be just the thing. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1443759943	Reply with quote #27

I add it to every mix ( Promix + compost), I like it a lot. No side effects, creates an airy mix easily and cheaply. __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

Charlie

Registered:1404043833
Posts: 1,214

Posted 1443836954 · Edited	Reply with quote #28

Did some detective work as a comparison of two clay type absorbents. Oil Dry brand from Walmart $4.22 for 25 pounds. Versus... Safe T Sorb from Tractor Supply $6.29 for 40 pounds. Both bags were sifted dry through a standard window screen and the result is seen in two 5 gallon buckets... Overall, the Safe T Sorb was much more dusty and judge for yourself on the volume comparison of what would not go through the window screen. The next two photo's showing particle size comparison. Even though Oil Dry seems to have lost less by screening, the overall particle size is smaller and more uniform than Safe T Sorb, which has larger particles. Both are a type of Montmorillonite clay. Oil Dry states "Bentonite (Calcium Montmorillonite type" while Safe T Sorb states "Calcined Montmorillonite clay". I'm not scientific enough to know the difference if there is one. Both seem equally durable to me when wet and rubbed between the fingers, remaining intact, comparing that to clay kitty litter I tested yesterday that turned to mush fairly easily If both serve the intended purpose equally well, I have to say the oil dry is a better buy, based on what usable portion doesn't fall through the window screen. If larger particle size makes a notable difference then Safe T Sorb might be worth the losses resulted from screening. I'm particularly interested if anyone has had success in rooting cuttings in 100% of either and continued with fertigation of some sort? That's what I'm about to try unless somebody talks me out of it with a bad report. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1443839421	Reply with quote #29

Charlie, Thanks for a nice scientific report :) I tried to root and keep the cuttings in a shoe box with a coco+Napa dry until the roots were about 1.5-2" long before potting them up. The cuttings really liked the mix (the lid was closed most of the time). The mix in the pots had about 15% of the Napa grains. It worked out quite well to keep the moisture more or less even ( with the mulch on top) __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

Charlie

Registered:1404043833
Posts: 1,214

Posted 1443922221	Reply with quote #30

Greg mentioned a hydrocarbon odor coming from the NAPA floor dry product and that Calcined Clay products wouldn't have that issue. The Safe T Sorb most definitely has a hydrocarbon odor when saturated, similar to kerosene. I don't really have a way to burn it off and am afraid to use it. The Oil Dry product has no offensive odors I can detect when wet. I'm soaking some of it now in a cloth pot, set inside a 2.5 gallon glass jug with a weak fertigation solution. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

brianm

Registered:1389664758
Posts: 971

Posted 1443923240	Reply with quote #31

I really don't understand the need for this floor dry. What is the goal here? __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra,UC Davis Black Ischia, Maltese Raven

Charlie

Registered:1404043833
Posts: 1,214

Posted 1443923409	Reply with quote #32

Quote: Originally Posted by brianm I really don't understand the need for this floor dry. What is the goal here? It's fun to experiment. :) __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

brianm

Registered:1389664758
Posts: 971

Posted 1443924696	Reply with quote #33

Ahhhhhhh got it# __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra,UC Davis Black Ischia, Maltese Raven

rcantor

Registered:1309799312
Posts: 5,724

Posted 1443925736	Reply with quote #34

It holds water but also creates air spaces, which should be ideal for rooting figs. __________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.

brianm

Registered:1389664758
Posts: 971

Posted 1443928227	Reply with quote #35

I am just a big believer in cocoa coir. My strike rate is much better this year. __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra,UC Davis Black Ischia, Maltese Raven

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