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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Hi I'm Sid, from the Big island of Hawaii, I have been a member for awhile but using the search button answered all my questions until now...

So 4 years ago I bought a fig at the Hilo Walmart labeled Black Mission fig.  I planted it and let it grow for 3 years. December 2014 I took a few hundred cuttings off it and rooted them.  They are now producing fruits, but the leaves and fruit are not matching any pictures of black mission.  Another problem is how many I have, out of 200 or so cuttings 100 survived and are in 5 gal pots (2 1/2ft -4 ft tall).  I'm planning on planting a 3 acre orchard and selling the fruits at stores and farmers markets but "Black Fig"(unknown) does not look good on packaging. :)  Anyone recognize the leaf pattern or fruit, I had ripe ones but missed them because I was not here at the time. :( 

01.jpg  02.jpg  03.jpg 




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figherder

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Maybe VDB?

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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Thanks for the photo for comparison. 

The leaf pattern does look similar, the stem color of mine is reddish pink at the base and end and peachy colored at middle.  Are there other close relatives to VDB that have the reddish pink stem coloration?
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figherder

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Yes the red is different but soil or climate could make a difference. Post a pic of ripe fruit when you get one and that will make it easier.
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americanfiglover

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Those some beautiful leaves on your plant Sid.
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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Ok should be about 60 days for the fruit to ripen.  Soil mix is 1/1/1 Fox-farm Ocean Forest, Pro Mix Hp, and Black cinder 3/8th fines.  Fertilizer is 2 tablespoons 18/6/8/ Nutricote 180 days slow release with micro-nutrients.  Temperature is very cold here,  I am shivering right now,  its 62 degrees at 7am and often barely hits 70 degree high.

I got most of my figs from Hilo Walmart.  I will post pics of them all together, I should have plenty of fruits from all of them except desert king,  I read it can't fruit 1st year.   

Thanks
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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Welcome!  I definitely have zone envy.
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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Update with ripe fig pics.  We had  about 12 inches of rain in the last 2 weeks, tropical depression rain and a heavy thunderstorm.  This fig did not split at the eye, just a surface skin crack, which I hear is common for black mission figs.  The eye appears to be tight no bugs or mold.  The skin is very thin and delicate, not tough at all, you can eat the entire fig to the stem.  Texture was syrupy, jelly-like, almost no seed crunch.  Taste, I am not sure I ate it to fast to put my finger on what it tasted like, tasted like a good fig. :p   1st fig I have had off this variety will give it a 8/10.  I was pretty worried it was going to be terrible tasting.  I am now glad I have 100 of them in 10 gallon pots. :) 
 

20150819_093013.jpg  20150819_093246.jpg  20150819_093412.jpg

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greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
I would say a VdB-like fig as well. The leaves are not from a Black Mission I know of for sure.
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Bass

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
VDB or Negronne
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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
That looks good! I have a black mission that is similar to yours but my fruit isn't quite as red in the inside.

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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Thank you all for your expert input.


I have a VDB I purchased from Dave on the forum.  I will grow it up and I can compare them side by side. 
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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
I got a 2nd fig off the tree that does not look very much like the 1st one.  As you can see no gap in the center of this one and much darker red color.  The taste was much more rich and dense, more of a berry flavor.  This one gave 9/10.  Hope they stay like this.   

20150821_134527.jpg

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Figgyme

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
mutation from original one. possible? 
Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Update. I got 25 VDB from 4 different sources. I'm going to go out on a limb... And say there are enough differences between my (black mission)(uk)fig and the other 4 VDB to have doubt. My fig has very big thumbs, VDB has little or no thumbs. The average leaf pattern has become rounder and less finger like. And the red pigmentation on the stems of my fig is from sunburn, but VDB does not have the red pigments, even in the full sun it does not get red on the stems. Picture: left, VDB #1, middle, my mystery fig (black mission) (uk), right, VDB #2. The other 2 versions I have are to young to have mature adult leaves but appear to be similar to VDB #1 & #2. Hopefully I can get all 4 VDB fruiting this summer and can do a side by side, by side by side, :) of the ripe figs.

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
figgysid1

Those leaves are not of VdB.
The pinkish hue on leaf stems usually indicate the origin being from seed usually. Also can be hybrid,  most hybrids do have pinkish hue on their leaf stems. But I can always be wrong too :)

How old is the plant, and when in it's life span did it start fruiting?

edit: Is this plant in Hawaii?
       Does Hawaii have fig wasps?
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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
The cuttings were taken December 2014, I don't have the older parent tree since I moved and left it in ground. They were transferred to 5 gal pots from 7 inch tree tubes in February 2015, 3-5 inches tall avg. So they are all about 1 year old, 6 died so I have 94 now. Size now, they are 5-8ft tall in 10gal pots. Fruit production was about at 6 months to produce ripe figs, 20-30 figs per tree. They do grow faster than most varieties mostly vertically not horizontal. They are growing in Hawaii, no ficus carica fig wasps, but other ficus wasps are established here, still unsure if they have any effect on ficus carica.
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FigWhisperer

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
ok, we will get there slowly LOL

more questions. (about the mother tree)

Have you observed the mother tree, I am interested in mother tree more than the cuttings that you got from, which are clones of the mother. (good thing)

-Do you remember the mother tree?
-Was she from a seed (grown by itself) or another cutting (given to you) or bought tree (from third party)?
-How old was she when started to fruit?
-Where was she living? If there were wasps there?
----------------------------------------------------------

more questions. (about the fruit in the pictures)

The white speckles and the crack can lead one to believe that the fig could be caprified.
- Have you done any seed test, meaning, have you floated the seeds or can you do it still? If they sink that would mean the seeds are fertile, thus  Caprified.
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Smyfigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Aloha...welcome to the forum!  Hmmm, mystery fig? Very interesting.  And, I am happy to know that you will be planting a fig farm! 
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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Tree was from Walmart, most fruit trees there are imported from the mainland, no nursery name, just labeled black mission fig tree. In ground it took 3 years to produce, but was shaded by larger trees. I did do the seed sinking test on Hardy Chicago and 50/50 sank and floated, a few sprouted. I just checked my 5,000+(-) fig seedlings, you are correct, some of them do have reddish pink stems.
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hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Sid I appreciate your honesty and desire to properly label your figs. But... labeling them Black Mission could make some people pass them by without a second thought; the Black Mission figs most people know are dried or picked unripe for shipping. Your product is the same but also different, and different in a way that means a lot.  IMHO what is best for both you and your customers is to get them to try a sample and buy a carton. 
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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
Ok. I think my main goal is to not ruin the reputation of figs worldwide. I was told by a man from Turkey, that Turkey produces the best tasting figs in the world. And that if I grow figs in Hawaii, they will taste terrible, that anyone who tries them will think that that is how figs taste and will never try a fig again.

So if 10,000 people try my figs, those 10,000 people will never buy another fig for the rest of their lives, which could lead to millions of dollars of lost fig sales for people who do have good tasting figs. He was very upset about it. And I agree with him, that I don't want to singlehandedly ruin the reputation of figs worldwide, by selling substandard tasting fruits.

So I want to make sure I am growing correctly labeled varieties, and I want to trial as many types of figs that I can. So I can pick the right one that will taste great in my area.
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nycfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgysid1
I was told by a man from Turkey, that Turkey produces the best tasting figs in the world. And that if I grow figs in Hawaii, they will taste terrible, that anyone who tries them will think that that is how figs taste and will never try a fig again.


This can't possibly be true as I have the best tasting figs right here in NYC.

Don't you listen to that nonsense, Sid.  You'll grow delicious tasting figs in Hawaii from what I hear.

Not an expert but my guess is Negronne.  Nice looking fig anyway.

I remember some of the older members talking about red stems on leaves and how the coloring can be influenced by the environment.  I think red stems are a sign that the fruit will be dark and/or the pulp will be red.
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hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
What I mean is it should probably say Tree Ripened or something like that way bigger than anything else on the sign because you worked hard to offer that to your customers and its not something they will be able to get just anywhere. Just be sure they taste good and get people to try samples and you will do fine. 

I wonder what that Turkish man would think after he bought some commercial ripe Bursa figs in Europe expecting them to be like they are tree ripened in Turkey... Poor guy doesn't know how lucky he is.
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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
I will make sure to put that on the packages/signs.

I think part of it was me imagining him at a bazaar in Turkey, trying to sell his figs and a tourist couple walks by and one of them says to the other, something like, oh look figs.. And the other one goes, remember honey we tried a fig in Hawaii and you didn't like them.. And they keep walking.. Then the turkish man clenching his fist, raises it in the air and curses my name...

I might just be over thinking things. :)
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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
I bet after 9,999 bad sales at the market some creative entrepreneur would start selling rotten fruit to throw at you ; ) 
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Posted Reply with quote  #27 

  Without being able to compare the taste of the fruit, I'd wager that it would be in the family lines of Ronde de Bordeaux.

  The two depictions of fruit have both historically been prevalent on the same RdB tree, and the shape of the leaf is spot on to my tree.  

   Blue
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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
@bluemalibu: Thanks. I have a few RDB cuttings rooting, I can compare them with that as well.

@NYC: I hope I can produce great tasting figs as well. But even if they are bad tasting, maybe I can sell them to a farmer to feed to their goats and pigs. $50 for a piled high pickup truck bed full of dead ripe Figo preto figs, to mix in with the slop buckets. ;)

I think (trader joes) has the right idea. No one can dispute that it is a black fig. :)

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Stem looks very similar to my Iranian Red (UK) . I got it from an Iranian bloke. My figs were red though, I mean really red. Only one ripened properly and the rest dropped. But I was told it will produce more as the tree matures.

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Smyfigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Figgysid1, One thing interesting too is that the soil on Hilo is very red, right? Though I'm not sure if you used garden soil or purchased?
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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
Hilo area does, pretty much all of the hamakua coast is red clay soil. But fern forest has none. 6 inches of black silt ,sandy soil, from black lava rocks, washed downhill by the rain and settled here. I use only promix hp/bx, Coco coir fiber, coco coir chips, and perlite for all my figs 25% of each per mix. No figs in ground for now. I got 1,100 figs of 60 varieties known and unknowns in pots sized from 3-45 gal. So 96 figs that I'm not completely sure what they are is not that big a deal In the grand scheme of things. :)
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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
Sid,

On that scale, it looks you own the entire island :)
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FigWhisperer

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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
Sid,
After carefully studying your plant and all the information you provided I am reluctant to say that your plant is a Mission Fig/ Franciscana.
The only thing that is still haunting me is the pinkish hue on the leaf stems. Somewhere in the strain there is a trace of a hybrid but it has been dominated (overpowered) by the domestic Mission Variety.
It's a very delicious and hardy variety.
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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to try to help me figure out what is.
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