Is there anything I could have done to avoid this?  Seems like they tossed something very heavy onto it.

      

This is the first time I've had a tree destroyed during shipping.

This was a Peter's Honey. :(

ohh, that is sad.
I'd go to the office and complaint, then demand for explanation followed by apologies and compensation by USPS.

Yes. I will certainly file an insurance claim.  Priority mail includes $50 of insurance.   I'll refund the cost to the buyer, and the bottom part of that tree will probably put out new growth anyway.

Been there with the PO. They do bad things to plants.

Would ups or FedEx be better? Though a little pricier.

I do not think one is necessarily better than the other.  Packages get stacked on top of each other.  Stuff shifts around during transport.  Things get crushed.

I guess the big red FRAGILE written on every side of the box means nothing to them. Lol

Hey James, Sorry to hear the news. I shipped a few trees last week to someone in Florida and they were damaged pretty badly by USPS. Thankfully only one of the three trees were severely damaged. This was the first time I've had a problem. Just file a complaint online and it should get resolved within a month. Did you have luck with the Dr. Gowaty cuttings? If you need more just let me know. All the best, Charles

I just started sending live figs in the last month or so.  Now you're scaring me.  I don't see how one could pack it any better other than to put it in a rigid container.

Frustrating at the very least...but, I see two trees for the price of one.  Root the top, and continue to grow the bottom, which already has roots.

It is aggravating, though.  It could've been worse.


Frank

[QUOTE=eatmoreyeah]Hey James,

Sorry to hear the news. I shipped a few trees last week to someone in Florida and they were damaged pretty badly by USPS. Thankfully only one of the three trees were severely damaged. This was the first time I've had a problem. Just file a complaint online and it should get resolved within a month.

Did you have luck with the Dr. Gowaty cuttings? If you need more just let me know.

All the best,
Charles[/QUOTE]

As of matter of fact, this one went to Florida too.

Dr. Gowaty is doing fine. Its about a foot tall now. =)

I have never had them damaged like this but I have had them left outside in the hot sun most of the day.

Can also try a sturdier box, I usually go with a corrugated cardboard box instead, more rigid.  I don't know if it would have helped in this case, looks like it had been tossed around or something heavy fell on in.

I have had damaged boxes with UPS, but nothing that severe. Had several with USPS and lost packages, as well.  UPS hasn't lost anything, yet. FedEx overnight is great, but ground service had a way of taking 8-10 days for a 4 day trip. The ground service just doesn't care about travel time.

I got one in the mail like that 2 weeks ago.  The mail man actually placed it in my hands like that!  I asked him what happened.  He said; "all boxes are thrown around".. ..."senders need to do a super job to keep them from getting crush by packing them stronger"...."we got too many packages to move and can't worry about them getting crush"..."its the nature of our job".

I said to him....."and you wonder why folks don't use the mail service that much anymore?"  "you guys are a joke!"  He told me to file a damage report at the post office----the US Gov is cheap and you get what you pay for.

I had this happen a couple times to trees I shipped as well.  It's no big deal.  First off, you can file a claim and get $50.  Then, the tree will probably come back anyway.  So it's like having your cake and eating it too. 

People complain that it's too expensive to ship things.  If they took additional measures to ensure nothing ever got damaged, that might double the cost of shipping. 

There are options for shipping very delicate items where they take great care.  These options are much more expensive. 

Like someone said, you get what you pay for.  Personally, I would rather a package gets destroyed occasionally than pay twice as much. 

If they can't get the job done the right way, then step aside and let someone else take over. We do not pay to have packages crushed or look like they have been put through a compactor. I do not remember the USPS advertising their shipping conditions as: $20 perfect condition.... $15 slightly damaged.... $10 severely damaged....$5 may not arrive!

I think this has happened to all of us a time or two.  I had many boxes arrive at my door step looking just like yours, usually the tree isn't damaged inside but I had a pastiliere from rain forest arrive and the tree was in 2 pieces , snapped about halfway. The tree is growing good now but  I hate getting a package that looks like it was dragged behind the mail truck to my house.

Those pictures are pretty convincing. Hopefully you wont have issues with the claim. You'll have to show them some paperwork to prove the value. I had to jump through some hoops before with valuation. Not a plant, but a used car part from a seller online.

Even if only 2, 1, or 0.01% of the packages have a problem, it is still a staggering number. For Fedex and UPS, as well. Let me know if you guys accomplish your work accurately better than 98% of the time. I might hire you. Hell, even the best batter in the major league hit 36.6% of the times at bat...

Find out who the driver was to that delivery.
He should be DINGed for being so unprofessional. Leaving a package in that condition and no comments attached to it is not acceptable!

The advantage to using USPS is Saturday delivery and possibly cost.

The disadvantage is demonstrated in the pictures.

Probably too much defending of shipping companies in this post, but I've got enough experience in that field that I figured I'd share my thoughts.

Enigma and Rob appear to have this pretty well figured out. I worked for UPS for seven years both as a package handler in the sorting (warehouse) facility and later in management during and for several years after college. While I can't write definitively regarding the USPS, I doubt they operate all that much differently in their package sorting and transport facilities than either of their private competitors mentioned in this thread. There are rules about package handling and they are generally obeyed by the employees, who I would imagine would like to keep their jobs. But you are talking about a very large volume of packages making their way through these facilities out of trucks/bins and onto conveyor belts and down chutes and stacked into trucks or airplanes to later have the process performed in reverse. In cases of non-air delivery across several states or across the country this process can be repeated two or three times. There are many opportunities for things to go wrong and for packages to be damaged, destroyed or even to disappear entirely. That most of us have had few problems with damage to the live plants we ship despite the process they endure in transit (and the above doesn't really come close to describing what it's like to watch the controlled chaos that is an active package processing facility during peak volume times - the logistics are daunting) is a testament to the hard work done attempting to preserve the integrity of your packages by the vast majority of employees in these organizations.   

Suggesting that no packages should ever be damaged or their contents destroyed or that companies/govt organizations that do should close up the shop and make way for companies that can do it better is fine, but ignores the fact that such is already the case as far as competition. UPS and FedEx as well as other, smaller package transport companies are privately held, yet they still damage items shipped with them just like the USPS. Perhaps they have lower damage percentages, but I doubt those numbers are out there for comparison. The USPS is also much less expensive for most shipping options. There will be the occasional damaged package as long as items are shipped in boxes that can be damaged and are packaged in a way that allows their contents to be tumbled around inside...or until we all have private transporters ala Star Trek. I wouldn't hold my breath on either development.

[QUOTE=DallasFigs]Yes. I will certainly file an insurance claim.  Priority mail includes $50 of insurance.   I'll refund the cost to the buyer, and the bottom part of that tree will probably put out new growth anyway.[/QUOTE]

If you are paid the claim the Poat Office keeps the tree. Since the tree was delivered the receiver needs to file the claim, and take the tree to the post office. I delivered mail on a rural route for over 20 years and know first hand about damage. 90% of the time it is caused when the parcels are routed to the individual routs the morning of the delivery. Each route has a hamper on wheels about the size of a refrigertor.  Parcels are thrown to individual parcel hampers for the routes. Notice the word "THROWN". The number of hampers could be as high as 100 or more, The mail clerk stands near the center with the hampers arranged in a somewhat circle pattern sevaral hampers deep. If your fig tree is thrown before the set of World Book encyclopedias, guess what?

[QUOTE=Aaron4USA]Find out who the driver was to that delivery.
He should be DINGed for being so unprofessional. Leaving a package in that condition and no comments attached to it is not acceptable![/QUOTE]

I delivered hundreds if not a thousand damaged parcels. The Post Office has no responsibility if you don't insure it. What is the deliver person going to do but say he/she is sorry. And that would be a stretch. If you don't insure they can even misdeliver it and you are SOL.

[QUOTE=snaglpus]I got one in the mail like that 2 weeks ago.  The mail man actually placed it in my hands like that!  I asked him what happened.  He said; "all boxes are thrown around".. ..."senders need to do a super job to keep them from getting crush by packing them stronger"...."we got too many packages to move and can't worry about them getting crush"..."its the nature of our job".

I said to him....."and you wonder why folks don't use the mail service that much anymore?"  "you guys are a joke!"  He told me to file a damage report at the post office----the US Gov is cheap and you get what you pay for.[/QUOTE] Dennis, you must have a patience of an elephant, I would've knocked his teeth out for talking to me like that. But then again...this is LA and we don't tolerate such poor standards here... I would seriously have him fired on the spot for giving such an answer...what does it tell us about our government. By saying that , he is actually doing Anti-Propaganda to his own employer and that's grounds for firing right there.
I am getting really upset reading all these abuse some of you take and do nothing about it....where are we, in Fuc#&%@ communist country where citizen's rights don't mean a thang? Please!

I understand that it can and does happen... and maybe to only a very small percentage of packages overall.  I've only shipped about 10 trees total, so right now I'm at a 10% loss rate.  So I should expect the next 90 trees to be safe, right?? lol  That'll put it down to %1 loss.  Somehow, I don't like my odds..

I guess as long as USPS honors the claims, as a seller there's no real loss.  Only frustration for the buyer.  

I gave the buyer a full refund and filed the claim to recoup the costs.  I asked the seller to hang on to the box and tree for a while in case they ask for it.  And if they never ask for the tree back, then he could keep it, as I'm sure it will put out new leaves in a couple of weeks.

[QUOTE=Aaron4USA]I would've knocked his teeth out for talking to me like that.
But then again...
this is LA and we don't tolerate such poor standards here...
I would seriously have him fired on the spot for giving such an answer...![/QUOTE]

Really,
you would have done all that,
first be a tough guy knocking someones teeth out,
then you would have snapped your fingers and had a union worker fired.
LMFAO.

Dude, this entire post, you are once again in a complete fantasy world with your expectations,
what your supposed reactions would be
and you tossed in some governments conspiracy theories as well.

Reread your comments above,
your far from rational in any of them.

Reality check is needed for you in the perfect world of LA.

Or maybe you are the husband of one of those reality TV  wife shows,
if you are,  just come clean,
it would explain a whole lot of things.  :-)

[QUOTE=DallasFigs]Is there anything I could have done to avoid this?
[/QUOTE]

A simple stick, that in inserted into the container
and reaches to the top of the box, secured next to the trunk of the tree.
Would have not prevented the box from being crushed,
but would have probably saved the tree from serious damage,
and potentially avoided the damage claim.

Standard method I use when shipping trees.

Oops. I can see this thread going off the rails purty quickly. Aaron's post was a definitely unreasonably aggressive and a bit out there, but you do like to poke the hornet's nest, Jack. Let's try to keep this one civil.

[QUOTE=Posturedoc]Oops. I can see this thread going off the rails purty quickly. Aaron's post was a definitely unreasonably aggressive and a bit out there, but you do like to poke the hornet's nest, Jack. Let's try to keep this one civil.[/QUOTE]
Someone has to point out this insanity,
otherwise it will continue to multiply with this individual,
and I don't see how that would be productive or beneficial to this board.
It reaches all aspects, from imbecilic concepts about propagation and plant biology,
to package delivery.

Not poking,
pointing out this fact.

I poke MUCH harder  ;-)

[QUOTE=Posturedoc]Oops. I can see this thread going off the rails purty quickly. Aaron's post was a definitely unreasonably aggressive and a bit out there, but you do like to poke the hornet's nest, Jack. Let's try to keep this one civil.[/QUOTE]

It did contain such a stick. The stick, somehow, escaped harm.

Sorry Neil my friend I am with Jack on this one.  Of course if Aaron did smack the mail carrier we would be spared his posts so.....never mind, go ahead Aaron smack away.  

I didn't realize I was going to insight a riot here..

I must have been lucky, only 1 box damaged, took 35 days to be returned, brainless buyer.

I guess, by a couple of posts, this kind of shipping is something that we should expect, something we should accept, so life goes on, and guess what, shipping damages will keep on as long as the carriers know we expect and accept them to happen. I think the downsizing of the workforce has caused major problems not only in the delivery business but all service and other areas in our lives. But....that's another topic.

Before this thread gets deleted, I'd like to say something :) I was impressed with the way Almost Eden shipped some fig plants I ordered last year. They came in 4" pots. Each pot had its soil covered with wet newspaper, which was taped down with packing tape to keep it from shifting or drying. Two pots were placed facing each other, and stakes (longer than the two plants and their pots combined) were taped around the pots. Corrugated sheets of cardboard were then rolled around the two pots and cage of stakes. Amazing job. I bet you could drop that packaging from a second story window and not harm the plants inside. Harvey does a nice job with packaging his plants too. Adding a couple of sticks really makes a difference. I was just clearing some weeds, and I broke a branch off my Takoma Violet. It sucks...but the plant will be alright, and I get to try my hand at summer cuttings. I'm not gonna beat myself up over it. It was an accident. In a way (not a mean way) it's kind of funny to see the "frag" or "fragile" in the shots of this crushed box.

Why would the thread get deleted?

I was reading a thread last week and when I came back to finish reading it, it was gone! I thought I was crazy or something, like maybe I imagined it. But it just disappeared.

Jack you must be a communist, I swear!

So, are you guys saying it is ok for a "union worker" like Jack A** put it to hand you a broken package and leave? and if you ask him what happened , he just say to you awe well, accidents happen. Is this good? 

[QUOTE=Aaron4USA]Jack you must be a communist, I swear![/QUOTE]

Still batting 100% sparky,
hard core  CAPITALIST.

How you can infer I'm a communist is amusing,
got no clue how you came up with that,
the magic of your mind I guess.

If you want to insult me,   maybe call me a racist,
would make about as much sense as communist,
but is more politically and emotionally charged word today.
Communist would have been a good slur in the 1960/70's

In the new millennium, 
calling me a racist is far more effective.

[QUOTE=Aaron4USA]So, are you guys saying it is ok for a "union worker" like Jack A** put it to hand you a broken package and leave? and if you ask him what happened , he just say to you awe well, accidents happen. Is this good? [/QUOTE]

Sorry, no union member here.
No boss either,  I'm the owner/boss.

Well,  if a delivery person hands me a damaged package,
and lets say I'm a world class @sshole,

I would assume its his fault and hold him personally responsible for the damage.
Even if the package was damaged before it reached his truck>
When he saw it, he should have immediately started an investigation on why, where
and how it was damaged, this should have been done before he left for deliveries that day.
Not knowing, and telling me "accidents happen",  while this might be the truth,
is completely unacceptable to me,
and the driver is lucky I did not behead him for this response.
But then again...
this is _ _ _ _ _ and we don't tolerate such poor standards here...

While there is no doubt in my mind that you are an @sshole, hence calling you Jack A** every time I refer to your posts, you came to a logical conclusion... at the end. G'night.
And NO, I am no celebrity.

[QUOTE=Aaron4USA]I am no celebrity. [/QUOTE]

Ok, thanks for the response.

Can I ask a favor,
I'm really curious.
What do you do for a living/job/profession ?

Today is a nice shiny day with a lot of (catch-up) fig-work to do for me ...

Sun is shining, little chance of downpours, just another day in fig heaven.

Jon, can you close this thread.. this is serving no more purpose.

The person who started the thread can close the thread, that's you James.

I see no options to do that.

[QUOTE=DallasFigs]I see no options to do that.[/QUOTE]

Delete your original post of the thread. The top one. All the other posts in the thread will be deleted also.

To be honest I just assumed that aaron's post was something he wrote in jest to vent some angry he would feel in the same situation, I didn't think he really would do.

That being said who has some more tips on how to pack their boxes when shipping to try and avoid this happening to someone else, so far I have said more rigid box, Jack as said a stack, Ruttings mentioned how almost eden packs which sound like it is a great option as well.
Before this thread gets deleted, I'd like to say something :)
I was impressed with the way Almost Eden shipped some fig plants I ordered last year. 
They came in 4" pots. 
Each pot had its soil covered with wet newspaper, which was taped down with packing tape to keep it from shifting or drying. 
Two pots were placed facing each other, and stakes (longer than the two plants and their pots combined) were taped around the pots. 
Corrugated sheets of cardboard were then rolled around the two pots and cage of stakes. 
Amazing job. I bet you could drop that packaging from a second story window and not harm the plants inside. 

Harvey does a nice job with packaging his plants too. Adding a couple of sticks really makes a difference.  From Ruuting.

[QUOTE=Chivas]

That being said who has some more tips on how to pack their boxes when shipping to try and avoid this happening to someone else, so far I have said more rigid box,
[/QUOTE]

Box in a box is very effective.

Filling the void in the box with packing material like peanuts helps prevents the crushing you experienced.

Also choice of box,  some of the prio mail boxes are of a thinner gauge cardboard
and do not stand up to the abuse as well.
For plants in smaller diameter containers, 
I would choose the prio mail triangle shaped tube/box,
more resistance to side crushing.

More rectangular shape a box is, the more susceptible to crushing.

Our LA friend was not joking, how he thinks,
as his subsequent posts prove out.
And if a damaged package inspires irrational rage and the desire
to cause bodily harm to a delivery person,
that person could use a mental health checkup, just sayin.

Box in a box is very effective.

Filling the void in the box with packing material like peanuts helps prevents the crushing you experienced.

Also choice of box,  some of the prio mail boxes are of a thinner gauge cardboard
and do not stand up to the abuse as well.
For plants in smaller diameter containers, 
I would choose the prio mail triangle shaped tube/box,
more resistance to side crushing.

More rectangular shape a box is, the more susceptible to crushing.



These are very good tips, I have used packing peanuts before but only within the trees, usually just crumpled up penny savers to keep them from being tossed around, but the box in box also makes sense, when I have to transport plants in low temperatures (40 degrees or lower) I always place inside a garbage bag that I inflated then place inside a second bag that I inflate as well, different concepts but very similar for using the buffer space like a shock to reduce movement, I like this one a lot.

I always seem to forget about the cardboard tubes, these seem like an obvious choice for the size plants you talk about, very simple solution for those types of plants.

Your pictures of the box pretty much says it all.  They had the gall to leave that on your doorstep?  Talk to your local postmaster, not the carrier.  That is appalling.  They will, however, only cover your actual cost (receipt required).

As an avid fig grower and a letter carrier for the USPS I will not defend the P.O. Other than to say that we do not always have control over the packages we receive or their conditions. When I sort my packages before I hit the street some of them may be damaged. Most of the packages that are priority or express are shipped on Fed Ex planes. Those are 1 to 5 day delivery packages. Anything more than that such as first class and parcel post are shipped in our own trucks. Sometimes we receive them damaged, others are damaged in the sorting process in the postal plants. With the new Priority you get $50 worth of insurance for free. If you have something more valuable you can pay for additional insurance. I know it does'nt make you feel better, but no matter what company you use there will be some damage to packages due to the volume of packages moved. I use the P.O. to ship most of the packages I send. No matter how much you bad mouth the P.O. We still provide great service. If I get a package and it is damaged I will always try and deliver it in person to the receiver. Some people ask me why I'm delivering a package that is damaged and the answer is that I'm required to. The sender is paying to have it delivered regardless of its condition. If it is so badly damaged that the contents are destroyed, contact the sender and they can get their money back. You know it makes me laugh at people sometimes when they expect there to be no accidents or damage to their mail or packages but in there own lives do the expect to never have accidents at their homes or in their jobs. It's an unreasonable expectation. The best thing you can do is contact the sender and maybe they will send you a new one.

Sorry
But I hate to see people go Postal on each other

Swizzle

Swizzle, this is the best post on this thread, your words and attitude made the difference. If all carriers responded like you on a damaged delivery the receiver would understand, maybe not be happy, but would understand. You changed my view, not 100%, but close.

Some cardboard boxes used for shipping plants are too flimsy, IMO.  Use heavyweight cardboard and select a size that is appropriate for the plant.  Moisture from the plant and potting soil should be separated by some barrier such as a plastic bag from getting the cardboard damp.  I've received too many boxes where the cardboard was soggy in spots.

Neil is spot on, IMO, all carriers are pretty much the same as far as package handling.  Out of about 1,000 packages shipped by USPS last year 1 got beat up really bad and returned to me without a legible shipping address so USPS insurance paid me the insured amount plus postage.  About 2 or 3 packages took more than a week and about a dozen took 4-5 days instead of the expected 2-3 days.

Some packages arrived by UPS to me earlier this year with damaged goods but I felt it was the fault of poor packaging by Amazon.  Because of the number of customers complaining of damaged packages for this particular item, Amazon temporarily discontinued selling the item until the figured out what to do.  My UPS driver told me to check out YouTube for videos of how their packages are handled in sorting centers and that helps give a pretty good idea why any package is subject to damage.  Imagine a case of 10 reams of printer paper coming down the line on your fig tree!

  I've had pretty good results with plants that are sent in shipping tubes.  I don't know if it is the odd shape of the tube that doesn't lend itself to being stacked along with the boxes, the extra rigidness of the round shape, or a combination of factors.  I've only had one shipping tube crushed/collapsed and the contents were still salvageable.  I've never seen an instance where there was significant damage to the shipping tube caused by pressure applied to the ends.

I have had some very large expensive figs come to me in perfect condition.  Not a ding.   Then then next day I received three shipments.  One box was empty  just a stick.  (I have ordered from this person before with no problems) so I guess that was an exception.  The second box was strange looking.   When opened, katy bar the door.  The inner box was original box badly smashed.  Poor plant inside was scared spitless.  The post office had repacked it I guess after using it for volleyball practice.  The last box was bent in two.  The plant was lucky it was smaller and was in the larger half.   I can safely say this.  Our rural post office takes care to deliver things right end up and with care.  I am on first name basis with the UPS driver and he is always very good.  It is the time between that you just never know.   Gee when you see someone on TV wiping a hamburger on the floor before serving it to someone that you wonder what this world is coming to.   We should all move close to one another so we can drive over and pick up our fig prizes.    Perfect World.    LOL  :)

[QUOTE=DallasFigs]Is there anything I could have done to avoid this?  Seems like they tossed something very heavy onto it.

      

This is the first time I've had a tree destroyed during shipping.

This was a Peter's Honey. :(

[/QUOTE]~YES, GOOD THING THEY WROTE FRAGILE ON PACKAGE,I AM NOT  HAPPY WITH OUR POSTAL DELIVERIES EITHER,I KNOW THEY HAVE ALOT TO DELIVER AND HANDLE,BUT SOMETIMES I THINK ,DO THEY REALLY CARE HOW THEY HANDLE  SOME OF THESE PACKAGES ,SO SORRY TO SEE THIS~

That's totally unacceptable. I would claim 50.00 insurance.

[QUOTE=brianm]That's totally unacceptable. I would claim 50.00 insurance. [/QUOTE]~i agree ~