Ok, now that I have your attention...

Here is a cutting with more than 3" of thick, solid growth on the main shoot, but there are still only minimal roots. Thus, the importance of the clear cup, to determine what is going on below the soil line. When there was 2"+ of growth, there were no roots evident, anywhere.

Yes, this really is Black Madeira, with which I had about 6% success last season. This season is looking better, as I fine tune my approach to this variety, but it still illustrates the difficulties of rooting this particular variety, along with others. The top-growth evidences the great energy which was stored in the cutting, but channeling it to root growth is not easy.

Ref: Quote "The top-growth evidences the great energy which was stored in the cutting, but channeling it to root growth is not easy." Unquote.

There has been a question always lurking in the back of my mind and that is "Why can't the green emerging shoots above the rooring medium be cut off to divert energy to the roots growth?". There may be a good reason for not cutting off the green shoot but what is this reason?"

In reference to OttawanZ5's query, I would opine that healthy green growth should be left on the cutting because the leaves with their chlorophyll serve to capture light energy and transfer it to the fig. If the leaves are removed, the energy stored in the cutting that was used in the production of those leaves is lost. If no roots emerge, then the leaves will wither in time, due to lack of water and other nutrients. (Someone such as Al, from the Fig and Garden Forum, probably has a more precise and technical explanation of what occurs.) Emerging small figs on the cutting should be removed, since their growth will result in a net loss of energy to the cutting and little, if any, potential gain. The bottom line is, that in order to thrive, the cutting will need both leaves and roots. It seems sensible to try to preserve the leaves long enough in order for the roots to emerge. Empirically, I notice with my cuttings, that the leaves have to be kept in a medium that is sufficiently moist, preferably surrounded with humid air, in order to prevent the leaves withering prior to root growth. My cuttings don't seem to do as well if they are in an area that is dehumidified (with an air conditioning system). The outside air on our back deck (open to the air, but with a roof overhead) is much more humid. The temperature varies a good deal (from the upper 40's F to over 80 F), but seems to be the best environment for me to root the cuttings with minimal intervention. As the season has progressed in Zone 8B Texas, there is much less variation in temperature, and the range is more conducive to rooting and active growth of the cuttings. To control the humidity of the cuttings indoors, a covering of some sort is helpful, such as plastic hairnets over the cups. Of course, in such an environment, mold is always a concern. With my cuttings exposed to the open air, even with very high humidity, I don't seem to have much problem with mold.

There may be a good reason for not cutting off the green shoot but what is this reason?

I've had many cuttings (some with roots, some before roots) with shoots similar to this in which the shoots have dried, become damaged, etc.  I have yet to see one survive. 

Thus, the importance of the clear cup, to determine what is going on below the soil line.

How is your treatment different if there are roots vs. if there are no roots?

If you have no roots, humidity control is more critical. Leaves provide more surface area for transpiration, and thus drying of the cutting - and thus the need to provide humidity sufficient to suppress moisture loss in the twig. Same principle as transplanting a plant. You have to compensate for the loss of root-mass, and water intake by decreasing leaves (water loss), or increasing humidity, until new roots grow and the balance is restored.

As for cutting off the new growth, that might work, but might also run the risk of not being able to grow new growth, later, depending on whether there are any buds/nodes left.

Wow, only 6% last year Jon, that makes me feel less bad with my failed attempt this year.

Do you mind sharing what you did differently this year or is it a trade secret?

I'm feeling good (right now) about my four Black Madeira grown from one UC Davis cutting. They are not out of the woods yet and do seem to struggle more than most (Col de Dame was extra enthusiastic). I liked your suggestion about over fertilization of your BM, Jon and it seemed to help these to give them more than usual. Barnisotte on the other hand has been even tougher.

Jon,

I have read your post on B. Maderia and the difficulty in rooting it. The one cutting I got from UCD was placed in a one gallon pot with 1 half each of potting soil and perlite. I now have a healthy plant about a foot tall and will move it to a permanent location in the open ground in several weeks. I guess this is pure luck. The humidity in my area probably helped greatly when the first leaves appeared.

Jack

Jack,

It has always had good, early top growth. Getting roots to catch up has been the issue. Which has meant keeping the humidity up, to suppress too much evaporation from the top growth. Not uncommon to have 6" of top growth and still no roots. It may be that the early growth robs energy, making it harder to grow roots.

Rooting some figs is really easy.
I have noticed that hybrids and mixes,or wanabe,are the easiest ro root.
But Rooting some trully excellent tasting cultivars,is a huge chalange.
I have had the same problem,with Black Madeira,as John had.
And I had other experiences as bad as that,but because I was so disapointed,and also that some people might say,that their rooted right away,making me fill like stupid,I will not mention other cultivars,i had problem with,but it is at least one dozen,of very rare,and very excellent figs ,that i just could not root them,from a set of 3 cuttings.
Other example is:UCDAVIS Mission, and say no More.

With my limited number of years of trying to root fig cutting I have found that UCDAVIS' cutting are the hardest cutting for me to get to root.  I have brought back cutting from, Europe, Mexico, and even South Jersey and kept them in my suit case for days that rooted better than USDAVIS' cuttings.

Vern 

I did get 'at least one'  rooting  from my 2006 UCD BM cuttings.
It also produced 1-2 fruits, plus more 'too-late to ripen', here in NJ;
good tasting, but also 'shallow' eye splits.

From my current  6/7 short fat cuttings; maybe 3/4 seem to have made it.
I already have given the first 'sure' one away to a good friend, the rest are
still  'somewhat' iffy.

Right now I am struggling to root my first one  'San Pietro'  from UCD
(#79), after 'them' being NA (at least to me) the previous 2 years...

Yes George you did because ,you are very good at it.
By the way:I also rooted a San Pietro in 2005,but till now it did not grow only 20 inches.
About 5 inches to top,it had a extra branching,but it died this Spring,so it is still ,one 20 inch stem.
Very frustrating.
Best Regards

This is my UCD Blk. Madeira,  Is it still to young to fertilize?
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Cecil

[edit]     Thanks Jon !

No, just water thoroughly, let stand an hour or so, then rewater with 1/2 strength (or less) Miracle-Gro. Less strength, more often is good. Sometimes you won't see much results this season, but it will explode next. Sometimes they grow like weeds this season.

Out of two cuttings I got two to root for me 2 years ago. This year one of them died because of heavy scale infestation, but the other is about a foot tall now.

Jon,

I spoke too soon on my Black Maderia rooting so well. The top growth has totally collapsed. Upon inspection, it had formed no roots, but the cutting appears in good shape. I am going to put it in the fridge for a couple of weeks and try it again. This probably is a waste of time, but I'm going to try it anyway.
This is the only cutting I was not sucessful with.


Jack

Unless I win the contest, my next effort with Black Madeira will be to graft or bud it.  Most of the fault for my failure this year was probably my own doing, but it sounds tough for most and I think my chances would be better going the other route.

Yesterday, I almost threw out a 'seemingly'  failed BM cutting! Had been doing
'nothing' for months,  with  the top part 'kind of dried up'. Upon very, very close
examination (with an 10x magnifier lens), the top tip (bud)  still seemed somewhat
green. The rest of the short, fat, multi-node twig down looking quite healthy, with
a  very robust callus at the bottom,  and some 'minor' hints of root initials.

SOoo, I re-potted  it back!

Moral of the story:
Yes the BM fig is one tough cookie fig to root; but do not give up on it prematurely.

George (NJ).

P.S.,
Not sure what it means, but apart from the fact that BM is a bad rooter;
it's twigs produced the best (ever) callus at the bottom of any fig cutting for me.
Think like of a  1/16 ++  fat 'white' circle...
Go FIGure!.

I received 3 scion of BM from UC Davis in the middle of March.  All 3 are in 1 gallon pots and doing as well as the others.......  Must be beginners luck.

Yes , there is 'something called beginners luck'! I did experience that in many,
many of  my VERY first time experiences,  in lots of  other stuff. Always wondered
what  does  go  wrong upon the 2nd time+ around?!

i have had good beginners luck with Black Madeira, the one that seams to be hard for me to root is Ishia Black only 1 of 6 cuttings took.

I have had 2 oput of 3 rooted  of Black Ischia from UCDAVIS.
So I think sometimes it is just luck.

The one that I am having difficulty with is Yellow Neches.  I have 2 in 1 Gal pots, but they don't have any leaves; roots are fine just no leaves.

Out of 22 scion from UC Davis, 19 are already in pots while 3 are still in vermiculite growing roots.  That has to be beginners luck.  I didn't realize I would wind up with so many fig trees...........

Darcy,

Be careful with water: plants without leaves use a lot less water than plants with leaves. The temptation is to water them the same, and then you can end up rotting the roots on the leafless plants.

Congrats.

Jon, thanks for the info.  I will water the sticks less than the others.

I though I would revive this thread!

For what it's worth, I phoned Howard Garrison at UCD last week and he made a suggestion that sounded logical to my inexperienced brain. He said it can sometimes be a good idea to apply bottom heat to cuttings while the top end sticks up into much cooler air; the idea being that by cooling the top of the cutting it will retard leaf growth, giving the heated bottom enough time to establish roots. Has anybody else tried this? If so, what kind of results did you get?

Ken,

It is a well known technique. The problem is the cost of the mat and the cost of the electricity. Not too much if you only have a few twigs, but ramps up quickly if you have more than a few.

Ken,

I rigged an Igloo ice chest with a heating mat in the bottom

and I ran some coat hangers from end to end like a clothes line to hold my baggied cuttings with good results last year.
I might add I only had about 12 cuttings!!!!!!!!!!
I know Dan has said negative things about heating pads for rooting cuttings, but it worked for me.

That's my 000.2 cents worth.

Hmmm this sounds interesting, so for this you would leave the cups on the heating mat without a cup covering the top correct? I too have had great success with rooting with the heat mat it seems to root allot quicker too but once roots can be seen and you leave it on there too long they die fairly quick thats another thing I learned this year.

Nelson,

I hung my baggied cuttings about 4" above the heating mat

then when I cupped them up I left them on the mat for maybe a week
to kinda kick start the root growth, then I left them in the Igloo

off of the heat mat until I saw good roots, then I put them on my mantle thing on my computer desk with a cup on top for a dome.

As ya'll know I talk in circles most time, hope ya get the drift of what I'm trying to say?

Ok so when you cup them up and put it back on the mat you had no dome right?

Right, but I moved them within a week, and that is when they got the dome

Ahhh now were cooking. Thanks Cecil will give it a try

Cecil ,
please show him the pictures of that cooler, i thought you did a wonderful job last season with your scion and your setup was simple yet very impressive and worked well dont be shy about it !

I had some disagreements in past about heat and rooting cuttings, i always thought that a little heat definitely helped the rooting process, thats why I stick with that way. 

Hi Martin,

I looked and the post and pictures are lone gone!

I think I deleted the thread and pictures, and I have got rid of that computer so I can't retrieve that Post

Sorry about that!

Thanks for the compliment though.

Thanks, Everybody, for the info on rooting with bottom heat. It sounds like it would be worth a try on some cuttings, so I'll see if I can rig something up. For just a few cuttings, would a heating pad like you'd use for a sore back, set on its lowest setting, be about the right temperature?

 Take a look at www.hydro-gardens.com they have propagation mats, a little more safe. I have used one of theirs for 8 years and it is still in good shape. Just looking they have a 22 X 14 for 42.95 plus the thermostatic control. Good luck!

Thanks, Jstall, that sounds like a better approach.

I have beginers luck I suppose with the Black Maderia, knock on wood.  It has rooted and I only have one cutting so I was happy so far, but no shoot growth yet.  It was the third one to show roots, DiRedo and Panachee being first and about the same time as local italian fig that I am told is an ever bearing.

Chivas,

Be very, very nice to it. I get a lot of cuttings of BM that root, but are dead a year later. Just seem not to thrive. I have taken to overwintering them before I sell them, because they are so sensitive, seemingly.

Pit,
      Any specific tips for her to stay happy?  Specific medium she likes better or likes to dry or stay moist but not soaked, heavy fertilizer or light?  Would it be advisable to keep it alive during winter to keep her growing under a high powered light?

They just are more fussy and/or difficult. Even air-layers took much longer to root than other varieties I have done. It took all winter in the green-house to really get them up and going. All I was trying to say was that they are tempermental, in my experience.

Don't think FMV is the issue, they show few if any signs of FMV.

Maybe it's just one of the susceptible few, but I'm guessing my UCD Black Madeira has a major case of FMV. But, other than distorted leaves and patchy pigment, it seems quite healthy and vigorous, and I'm optimistic it will outgrow the symptoms, or at least that its fruit production won't be affected much. It will go into the ground soon, which I'm also hoping will give it a boost.

Has anyone sourced out one w/o FMV? Seems like everyone has the same problem. Same sources?

Dominick. Good luck.