See Rooting in a Bag, New Style

Goog timing Jon on that method.
For me this last time around unless i find room for 1 plant  next time around im going to skip the baggie method and go right to the cup and sm finnish pellet and use the rooting gel once again.
Best Health

Jon:
This is a neat method and I will try it.  The same clear plastic newspaper bags that I have been saving for air layering will work with your method, and I already have the tailpiece.  

These newspaper bags have other advantages; they are much deeper even than the 42 ounce soft drink cups and you can get many more of them in a rooting box than you can with the cups.  Let's see how practical this idea is.
Ox

Interesting, my wife has some of these same bags leftover from bagging granola mix for friends over the holidays.

I wanted to mention two things.  First, a typo:

Drop the cutting in. If they are two "curly" to fit through, put the cutting in first, and use the tail piece as a funnel.
 
Should be "too" curly.
 
Second, a comment about it:  On a daily basis, I need to write up help documents which explain step-by-step for idiot users which leave no room for assumption on the part of the user.  The one thing that may not be clear to some people is that the piece of pipe is to be used as a guide to insert the cutting, then funnel in the mix, at which time it is removed.  I mean, if you look at the pictures, it is clear.  But I know how people tend to 'jump' steps or not put the pictures and words together, so I thought it might be advisable to mention that the pipe would be removed later, and is only to be used as a guide.
 
Otherwise, interesting method.  Looks very easy.  I would like to try this one some day.

Jason, thanx. I have been collecting the pieces, and barely got it finished before I had to leave. I find I am a better proofreader, if I step away from something for a few days. When you're in the midst of it, you get to a point where you know it so well, that you don't really see it anymore. I want to add some more comments, and stuff, but wanted to get it started. Don't even have it linked from the website, yet.

I had good success with the old bag method, but some cuttings seemed to need something more. I had toyed with the idea of watering the cuttings in the cups with a compost tea to try and stimulate better root growth, without having organic elements in with the perlite which caused such sticking problems.. We'll see how this works. It is more compact that the cups, and I can use the space savings. I still have to work out slitting the bags without damaging the roots (one point in favor of the split cup idea). I just started doing this, and have about 100+ in the greenhouse. A few more weeks will tell a better story, but the initial results are encouraging.

Thanks Jon for posting.
One thing is not clear if the cuttings go straight into the narrow open plastic bags from the fridge (or whatever) or the cuttings still preferably go through pre-rooting (or pre-initials) in the zipped baggie method before placed in the rooting mix in these narrow bags with the bottom slit?  

Currently, they are not pre-rooted, and most are fresh cut, most not refrigerated.

Cannot see that it matters;  the baggie method simply produces intials before placing in the rooting mix.  Some of us do this, some do not, so using the plastic bags would leave us the same choices we had before--to baggie or not to baggie.
Ox

This is quite interesting, and beneficial in a few ways. For one it takes up way less room, I too have had issues when Removing rooted cuttings from the cups with potting mix this should take care of that problem. Thanks for posting Jon this will sure come in handy with the next batch of cuttings.

Jon, just a suggestion but if you cut the bag across the bottom from corner drain to corner drain, wouldn't they just slip right out the bottom when you're ready to pot? I guess that would depend on top growth or how straight or branched the cutting is. I like the idea of this method. Thanks!

Added a little more info and linked to to the "Growing Tips" page.

I just ordered some of these bags today from their canadian warehouse pretty affordable. Thanks for the link Jon

I have used this method, but instead of the plastic bags, I have used the small and large bottle liners that we use for our grandchildren and get trashed.  The large Playtex liner works best as it will bulge a bit more in the middle and it is 6 inches tall.  I recognize the bags that were shown were 8 inches, but the 6 inch works well. Also, the bags that the daughter-in-law catches the breast milk in works well.  It is a bit larger in circumference and is 6 inches in height as well. Thanks - Don

Don, Thanx. Everyone has their own variation, and a different way to be cheap (er, inexpensive) and all that input is good. I start from what I have chosen, and everyone gets to customize and/or improve from there. At least people have a source for the bags, and now they have 2 or 3. Maybe 2 mil is to too thick, or too thin, but it was my best guess and seems to work. Much of what I do, I have learned from others, both on the forum, and off, so I am not claiming a lot of credit - just hoping to help the cause. It is the community aspect that I enjoy and value the most. Please keep joining in.

Yes, Jon, you are right. necessity is the mother of invention and everyone comes up with variations sometimes to suit their needs. I bought cuttings of cold hardy grapes in the fall of 2008 and they were pretty long with nodes far apart. I was told to wait until spring to start the rooting process with any method but I was impatient and wanted to do it in parallel with figs. I could not find long enough bags or glasses. Then it occurred to me that I have an old box of 11' x 8.5" transparency sheets no longer needed for presentations. I made cylindrical pots of different sizes to fig a straight or crooked grape vine cutting (narrow or wide) holding in shape with scotch tape. Closed the bottom with  criss-crossed scotch tape that also provided some holes at the bottom. I made some extra holes on the sides near the bottom. These long cylinders worked fine with perlite for rooting.

Well, thinking off it, I did (something) very similar ~3 years ago.

I did not use any "funnel" for the dirt; just used a pet-food-scoop with a

spill-catching container. The potting medium used was more of a

(~2-3:1 soil/perlte mix). No, I did not a have 100%  success,

but I was satisfied with (say 75%+?). 

One big problem I had was watering. The flimbsy plastic bag tops

Bottom line:
I think that all this by-passes the initial-root-baggie-method
and goes back to just putting a fig-twig in some good
rooting medium?

Gorgi from my own experience I have to say the #1 thing I like about rooting cuttings in the bag is that out of the 12 I have rooted not one has had the roots stick to the bag unlike the plastic cups. It takes up less room , you can still see root growth through the plastic and when you are red to pot it up you simply fill a pot with the mix make a hole in the center, then cut the side of the plastic bag and bottom hold it gently in your hands put it in the hole and voila. I use a bit more soil than Jon thats probably why its easier for me to do it this way. The ones I had alot of perlite it just falls apart once you cut the plastic bag but again it does not damage the roots. Im happy with the results thanks Jon for posting this.

Yes, minimum-tender-root-disturbance has always been my objective.
I have seen pics of fig-roots up in the air, so others seem to differ.
Yes, plastic bags are very easy to slit-thru, as are foam cups...
As a matter of fact, I never had a problem of releasing the whole
root-ball from any container - one just needs to know what he/she is doing.

Clear containers are good to see the root-growth process, though
NOT necessarily to any benefit for the rooting twig. Also, if not
transplanted soon enough, some green-moss seems to develop
on the inside of the clear container - not sure if this is good or bad?

Yesterday I bought new windshield wiper blades for my car [I'd rather get just the blade inserts themselves but no one seems to sell them anymore, grrr].

[IMG]http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/file?id=955079[/IMG]

When I took them out of the packages, I noticed that the packaging is a strong, clear piece of hexagonal plastic. The paper lining comes out without any problem and you can squeeze the plastic until it makes a roundish hexagonal tube that is about 1.5"-1.75" [3,8cm-4,5cm] in diameter.

[IMG]http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/file?id=955080[/IMG]


The nice thing is with the tube being clear, you can see what's going on when you are filling it. Since this is something that just gets thrown in the trash [or plastic recycling bin], it comes as a 'freebie' if you are buying wiper blades. After buying one set of wiper blades, you can cut several sizes of the clear tube.

You can see the brand I got [Goodyear], but I am pretty sure most wiper blades are packaged in a similar material.

Just thought I'd share it.

Here are some pix of cuttings moved to 1 gallon pots yesterday.

Gorgi,

You are right, this is different from the "original" rooting in a bag in that is uses some organic material. You can still start root initials in a bag, as before. This replaces the step of the plastic cups. I bypassed the initial rooting in the bag because I wanted to see if organic materials would, as I suspected, help initiate rooting and that seems to be the case. I had heard of dipping/soaking them in willow-tea and an aid to rooting. Hormone had given very bad results, So I theorized that some organic "juices" might be beneficial, and that does seem to be the case.

If current results continue, it will reach near 100% success, and much quicker than the previous method.

I also think that by burying about 95% of the twig, the moisture balance is easier to maintain. I have some cuttings that were 10-11 inches long, and when buried in 8" of rooting mix, they have pretty much died back (dessicated) to the soil line, but are fine below the soil line and in most cases, so far, sprouting from lower nodes.

By going straight to the plastic bags with rooting mix, I am using less labor than if I bagged them the old way, and then transferred them to cups. And these take up much less space, so I have moved all of my rooting twigs from the house to my small greenhouse, which now have something on the order of 1100 little plastic bags in it.

Cheaper, faster, easier is an on-going quest.

help!!!! my husband had to leave the country on business and left me with these fig cuttings to deal with! so they are sprouting roots now and he wants me to move them into these uline bags.  how long do the roots need to be before i move them?

thanks in advance

If you are seeing root formation, you can do it now. If you are not seeing root formation, you can do it now. Not a problem. I have been putting my cuttings directly into the 3 x 8 bags without out pre-rooting them, and they are doing great.

Jon, do you sell rooted cuttings in plastic sleeves ? I had success in rooting in plastic bag and they go straight into 1 gal pots. Thanks to Nelson for the batch of bags to try.

Paul I have been having the best results with the bags so far the transfer rate from bag to 1-2G pots have been 100% have not lost anything yet. Knock on wood

thanks so much for your info!  I really want to do this right for him.. I do not have a green thumb so its kind of a big deal!

Paul,  I had thought about it, but not quite ready to go there. Not sure about the durability of cuttings in that state. Still have packaging issues to work out as well. Maybe next season.

one more thing, could y'all tell me how long I can keep them in these little baggies?
thanks again!

It seems to be working for me. Less soil. Less work. Less space required. And roots galore. Each time I cup-to-pot, I notice how much medium is unused. This was is impressive. Note I have three cuttings that started with no roots initials (primordia). The others already had initials.

Thanks for the 411 Jon

JD

Here are a few snapshots:

JD, for the benefit of others, what kind of bags are you using?

 I dug up my buried cuttings yesterday.   In he fall I took a double handful of cuttings off my bronze Paradiso, the Joe Morle tree.  I put them in a bucket on sand, covered them with more sand and buried the bucket to the rim in the ground.  I then put a half barrel over that.  Two of the cuttings were left sticking out of the sand.

The two sticking out of the sand had leaves growing yesterday, but not a root or sign of a root.  Those buried deeper had green buds showing, some already splitting, but no roots.  I did not even see anything resembling root initials.  The sand was damp but not soggy, and quite cold.  I dumped the sand in the half barrel and set it in a shady spot.  I then potted fourteen of the best looking cuttings in 32 ounce cups of potting mix, tossing the rest.  I put another half barrel over that to control humidity. 

We will see what happens now.  I fully expect the cuttings to "take".  Using the potting mix VS vermiculite or perlite does not bother me as those I rooted earlier this year took well and the roots show very well in the clear cups.  When the cup is full of roots you really do not care that you've not used a "standard:" rooting medium.

The half-barrel is one of the white ones that soda syrup comes in, fifty gallon size.  It would have held perhaps twenty cuttings.  The clear Walmart boxes I've been using crack from sunlight.  The white barrels seem to be indestructible, and of course the half barrel is much deeper than the boxes.   No telling how many of the newspaper baggies it might have held.  For a serious grower, baggies in a barrel might work out very well.  I paid, I think, $7 for these barrels, then cut them in half.

I will remove the half barrel on top and replace it with a film of dry-cleaner plastic when the cuttings have started well. 
Ox

Since I started using this method I have not bothered with anything else.

Hardy Chicago cuttings

[IMG]http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/nelson20vt/Hardy%20Chicago/103_0134.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/nelson20vt/Hardy%20Chicago/103_0135.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/nelson20vt/Hardy%20Chicago/103_0136.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/nelson20vt/Hardy%20Chicago/103_0140.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/nelson20vt/Hardy%20Chicago/103_0130.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/nelson20vt/Hardy%20Chicago/103_0118.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/nelson20vt/Hardy%20Chicago/103_0119.jpg[/IMG]

Violette De Bordeaux

[IMG]http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/nelson20vt/Hardy%20Chicago/103_0131.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/nelson20vt/Hardy%20Chicago/103_0132.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/nelson20vt/Hardy%20Chicago/103_0133.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/nelson20vt/103_0129.jpg[/IMG]

That is what I am seeing, and I have even stopped pre-rooting them in bags (with moss or paper or whatever). I am going straight from frig to the "new bags" and into the greenhouse. I am convinced that the organic compounds from the compost or other organic material in the mix is a natural rooting hormone/stimulant.

Here's one example.








Here's another.

Lovely pics Jon, thats what I like about the baggie easy to cut the baggie and the roots never stick to the plastic wich wich gives it an excellent trasfer rate with no root damage.

Jon,
I am using vacuum bags (Food Saver) cut at 3.5" wide. Figured I give them a try since I had them. They are working VERY well.I am about 60% of the way to having roots like those you show in the May 1st photos.
JD

In the two weeks I was gone, a coworker cared for my cuttings. She thinks she might have under-watered them, but I assured her that they look great, and in fact it was much better than if she had overwatered them!


[IMG]http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/file?id=975398[/IMG]

i think i spy a schuyler fig ;)

A new source of rooting bags: air pillows used in packaging.

Over the weekend, I received several items from Amazon.com and saw that the box was nearly filled with a string of 7" x 4" air pillows. They have perforations that makes it easy to pull them apart.

Anyone who receives packages on a constant basis probably gets [and tosses] these air pillows.

I think I am going to try this method exlucisvely for rooting this year.  I ordered a carton of the baggies this eve for delivery.  I will probably be starting my cuttings when UCD cuttings arrive this year (hope that's soon based on others' experience?)

Jason, I use it for about 99.5% of my rooting, currently. I do some in potting soil, in bulk when I get tired of doing them on per bag and I have 50 extra cuttings of something. Otherwise, it is "new bag style".

Love the recycled air pack idea.

My source of "Jon bags" is I make them myself. I take quart size zip lock bags, cut the zipper off and then use my vacuum sealer to make two seals down the middle of the bag. I then cut between the seals to get 2 smaller bags. It takes a little time and attention to get the seal just right but for the cost of the bags, $1.50, I get 50 "Jon bags". Worth the trouble if you don't need 1000 bags.
"gene"

Picked up 90 air pillows at work today, and probably 40 last Friday. They were happy to get rid of them.

Hmm...maybe I should offer to trade these for cuttings!

Gene: That's pretty much what I've been doing. I've just been recycling used zipper bags. As long as they aren't too badly "used".

I don't have a vacume sealer per say but I did pick up this old thing at a yard sale over a year ago. It just heat seals the edges. Not bad for $1.50. Especially considering it works just fine :-) :

Bill, a good thing who ever sold it didn't know it was really a "Jon Bag" maker. Then it would have been like some lost piece of art and the price would probably have been double, ha. Good find on your part.
"gene"

ha. Yeah Gene. It certainly ain't nothin fancy. But you know that old saying - "One mans trash is another mans treasure". It's wasn't considered entirely trash, but not far from it at only a buck & a half. Works great as long as I don't need anything larger than 8" X 8". 

Hello all!  I'm a new fig grower, and have been trying a variation on what you all are describing.  In orchid growing there's something called "spag and bag" where you wrap an orchid plant in damp spagnum moss, seal it up in a plastic bag, and forget about it for a while.  (Or at least that's how I interpret this technique.  And it has worked for me.)

Anyway, I'm doing more or less what you all suggest, with some of the cuttings that I picked up at a recent scion exchange. 

But in my case, I've sealed up the top of the bag, because that's how I got orchids to come back from the dead.  No top opening, no drain holes.  It's kind of a set-it and forget-it approach.

The tips of the figs are sticking out from the bag, and there are nice green swellings where leaves seem to want to form.

What all of your photos suggest is an opened bag.  Do you have any thoughts on my method?

Hi Lisa. Welcome to the forum. You've found the best place on the web to learn about figs & fig propagation -IMO.

There may not be anything wrong with your method. Personally, I'd prefer the option of being able to open my bag to check on the cuttings every couple days or so. Most of us here might be a little too paranoid about not letting in the fresh air every now & then to help keep mold at bay (one of the biggest issues when rooting fig cuttings like this).

Not saying your method  won't work. Just sharing my personal thoughts. As long as the sp-moss isn't too damp, your cuttings will likely start to root. Otherwise mold and/or rot may become a concern.

Keep asking questions. Everyone here will be glad to help :-) .  

Hi Lisa,

Welcome.  :)

It will be interesting to hear how your experiment with the fig cutting works out.

noss

How seriously should I worry about mold? 

(And thanks for making me feel welcome.)