bird netting enclosure -

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TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1283100610 I've been wanting to do this for quite a while, and am finally getting started on a bird netting enclosure large enough to protect figs as well as several other non-citrus fruits (the birds don't bother the citrus). I had put it on hold when I couldn't find an affordable source of netting with really small openings, but have decided to go ahead with a commercial mesh that's 5/8" x 3/4". We have one tiny bird species (verdin) that can squeeze through it, but it should stop all the others. Fig beetles can fit through as well, but I'll have to live with them. Cost is a big concern right now, so everything has to be done for very little $$$. A low perimeter fence of salvaged chicken wire will keep the rabbits and javelinas out (the posts are salvaged 1/2" x 1/2" square steel rods, but rebar would work just as well). The "footprint" is 120 feet by 28 feet (with a corner cut off due to a power line easement), and the height will be 12 feet at the center ridge and 9 feet at the edges. The "tent" part will require about thirty 10' lengths of 3/4" EMT conduit, about 1000' of tie wire, and a 400' x 14' roll of bird netting ($123 plus shipping from http://www.amigoni.com/bird%20netting.htm). Since I'm enclosing existing trees (persimmon, apple, 2 peach, 2 apricot, & 2 plum) I'm stuck with a layout that isn't the most efficient, but there should still be enough room to plant several of my UCD cuttings and other potted figs in the ground this spring. I'll post progress shots as I work on it.
satellitehead Registered: 1257988353 Posts: 3,687	1283113094 Very cool. Please do keep this updated, with pics, I'm very interested to see what you come up with, now that I'm having problems with birds also.
snaglpus Registered: 1244258188 Posts: 4,072	1283138280 This good news Ken. thank you. I am planning on planting 40 trees this year and need at least 100 yards of netting to protect my trees next year. thanks, Dennis
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1283144715 Dennis & Jason-- I'm glad my future fig-fortress may end up being useful to other bird-plagued fignuts. I'll definitely post updates as it comes together. The framework for supporting the netting should be a very economical way to enclose a large area--I just hope it turns out to be as easy in reality as it looks in my imagination! One thing I still haven't worked out--does anybody know of a cheap, UV-stable string or light twine that would work for splicing adjacent sections of mesh together? The plastic twines I've tried end up disintegrating after a year or two of desert sunshine.
noss Registered: 1244523274 Posts: 2,122	1283158751 Ken, What about fishing line? I've had windchimes that are rigged with fishing line that seem to still be going strong. noss
genecolin Registered: 1248866064 Posts: 1,542	1283163642 Ken, Vivian is right. That new braided fishing line is stronger than anything else on the market and will last for years. I've been fishing with some for 4 or 5 years and its still as strong a new. "gene"
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1283172484 Thanks, Gene and Noss. Fishing line sounds very promising--I'll see what I can find out about how it holds up to constant sunlight. If it's UV stable, it would be ideal.
noss Registered: 1244523274 Posts: 2,122	1283235321 Gene, Do you find the braided line is mor UV resistant than the regular line. I cannot, for the life of me think of what it's called... Oh monofilament? I'm glad to hear how long your braided line has lasted for you. We just started using it when the watergrass was cutting the monofilament lines we had. noss
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1284310764 UPDATE 12 Sep 2010 It's now cleared and fenced. This view is about midway along the south side, looking east. Posts are about 7'-6" on center. The little shed at the far end is an old playhouse that I relocated for keeping pots and stuff. The thing to the right of it is a compost pile. Next I'll rig the post-and-wire framework that will support the bird netting. I will probably wait until spring to install the netting, though, since there's nothing that needs to be protected before then. I looked at Home Depot's EMT conduit, and although I had planned to use 3/4" diameter tubing, I think 1/2" will be strong enough--for about half the price. It's less than $2 per 10' length, so I should be able to get all the posts for less than $60, plus tax.
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1286385701 UPDATE 06 Oct 2010 The basic framework is up, using 1/2" EMT electrical conduit posts to support a 14' x 15' grid of rebar tie-wire, which will hold up the plastic bird netting. (Post spacing is 15 feet on center down the length of the enclosure, and 14 feet on center across the width.) Please note that there are power lines and phone wires visible, which aren't part of the framework. To avoid having anything stick up above the wire support grid (where it might snag the bird netting), I drilled four holes in each post, roughly an inch and a half from the end, so that wires could be mounted by threading them through the end of the post and back out through one of the drilled holes. To make it easier to thread the wires, I "flared," or angled, each drilled hole with an old nail-set: To keep things as cheap as possible, I secured each wire by wrapping it a couple of times around a "hog ring", and then crimping the C-shaped ring to form a tight "O". This creates a stop, so the wire can't be pulled back through the drilled hole. (A more expensive, but better approach, would be to use threaded cable clamps, which can easily be removed if adjustments are needed. Stainless steel cable would be better than tie wire, and abrasion to the bird netting could be reduced by sleeving 1/4" irrigation tubing over the cable.) I measured and laid out much of the wire grid while the posts were still lying on the ground, and then raised them all up and made the final crimp-connections from a ladder. (This was necessary because I had to work around existing branches; if someone was starting with bare ground or very young trees, they could make all the connections at ground level before raising the posts.) The bottoms of the posts simply rest on the ground and do not have to be anchored (although once I install the netting I'll put a piece of brick or tile under each post to keep it from settling into the ground); everything is held in place by the tension of the wires, which are secured to the chicken wire fence. Tension on the wire is increased by moving the bases of the angled perimeter posts closer to the fence. (Although I don't much like the look of the angled posts, I chose to install them this way due to space limitations. Doing so will allow the netting to hang straight down at the perimeter, while avoiding any "shear" stresses on the posts, which aren't strong enough to resist any significant lateral force. With this arrangement the only stress on the posts is compression, and the weight they support is quite minimal. It would have been possible to keep all the posts vertical, but I would have had to move the fence out about 3-4 more feet, and I just didn't have enough room.) The posts that support the central ridge are 12 1/2' high, and vertical; to get the extra height I used a coupler (see below) to splice a short piece to each standard 10' length. The perimeter height is currently 9 feet (10' post at an angle), but once I install the netting, I may be able to raise this a little higher, if there's enough overlap between netting and fence to allow it.
genecolin Registered: 1248866064 Posts: 1,542	1286411600 Ken, looking forward to your pictures. I need to improve on my bird netting next year and want to look at all possible solutions. Thanks for the update. "gene"
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1286418206 Gene-- My son showed me a different way to include the photos, so I was able to go back and add them to my previous post. Hopefully, they will illustrate what I was trying to describe.
genecolin Registered: 1248866064 Posts: 1,542	1286446173 OK now I understand, pretty simple. That's gonna be a big birdless cage. I won't need one that large for the coming year but I do have to make mind larger and stronger. Thanks for the ideas and the source of the netting. "gene"
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1303840529 UPDATE 4 April 2011 Finally! A bird-free zone! I still have a few minor details to wrap up, but the "anti-aviary" is virtually finished--just in time to save most of the apricots, as well as all the peaches, apples, plums, and persimmons. My feathered freeloaders start pecking the green apricots when they're only about the size of my finger tip, so they've already gotten a few, but hopefully that's the last they'll get from now on! After the low, chicken wire, perimeter fence was in place, but before installing the bird netting, I noticed little hoof prints in the dirt along with signs that a javelina had been rooting around for melon rinds in the compost under the Fuyu--evidently it shoved the top of the wire down just far enough to topple into the enclosure. Fortunately, it didn't bother my figs. I reinforced the fence here and there but it kept getting in, night after night, so I resurrected my old "Fido-Shock" electric fence charger and added a series of four hot wires, just outside the chicken wire, as a little extra deterrent. So far, so good. If I had it to do over again, I'd scrape up the money and buy new chicken wire, or better yet, 1/2" galvanized hardware cloth, for the perimeter fence. I also think I should have used 3/4 inch conduit instead of 1/2 inch, although it's already made it through some strong winds with no problem. I also wish I had rigged the netting support with the same 17 gauge galvanized wire I used for the electric fence--but the tie wire should still be fine. Splicing the netting together was a much bigger job than I had anticipated (two long seams for a total of approximately 260 feet of hand "stitching"), but 14 feet is as wide as it comes, so there was no way around it. I had been thinking of keeping chickens inside the cage as well, but I also want to use it for growing squash, tomatoes, and other vegetables. My wife pointed out that chickens would gobble the veggies as fast as I could plant them, so I guess the chickens won't work out after all. Too bad--I was looking forward to having some. The newly-planted figs seem to be growing nicely, although leaf-cutter ants (another plague for Tucson gardeners) attacked my Black Madeira. They couldn't snip through the thick petioles like they do on most trees, but they still managed to chew up all the leaf edges. Oh well--no real harm done. All in all it has been a very cost-effective and fun project, and I'm optimistic it will work out quite well. I'm really looking forward to eating a lot of figs in a few years!
FrozenJoe Registered: 1244509224 Posts: 1,115	1303849266 Very impressive Ken. It looks like you've put a ton of work into that enclosure. Wish I had something like that!
loslunasfarms Registered: 1189011868 Posts: 380	1303850097 Where do you purchase your bark?
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1303851833 Thanks Joe. If you ever decide to build one, I'd be happy to share any info or give you a rough idea of materials cost based on the size you want. I think it could be easily adapted to most any scale. LosLunas--it's actually just mulch that a local landscape service delivers at no cost if he's working in the area and it happens to be my turn (there's a long waiting list), along with my own prunings that I run through a little cheapo electric chipper-shredder from Harbour Freight.
Chivas Registered: 1283819505 Posts: 1,675	1303853232 That is a very beautiful set up you have, thank you for sharing it and going through the step by step, I hope it works well for the season and those to come.
paully22 Registered: 1195324538 Posts: 2,719	1303868655 Excellent job Ken. Shall let my brother know about your neat netting job. He has a serious bird problem.
noss Registered: 1244523274 Posts: 2,122	1303876800 Hi Ken, What did you use to sew the netting on/together? That enclosure looks great! What a good job you did with it. noss
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1303880405 Noss--I found a local awning manufacturer willing to reel off three hundred feet of UV resistant, high-density polyethylene thread--basically the same material and thickness as the netting.
JD Registered: 1252379847 Posts: 1,162	1303935253 Very nice Ken. It gives me some ideas for a scaled down version to protect my blueberry and figs this season.What are you using at the tops/tips of the 1/2" emc to support the netting and stabilize the emc via the wire? JD
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1303945198 Hi JD-- I had posted photos back in October but they disappeared, so here are some that should illustrate it pretty well. First, I drilled holes in the EMT to thread the wires through. Then I flared them (if that's the right word) with a nailset to make it easy to fit the wire through the hole by feeding it into the open end of the EMT. At this point, all the poles are lying on the ground--I simply measured and cut the wires, and then made a sharp little bend where I wanted it to meet the top of the tube. The whole grid of wires was laid out and connected at ground level. To secure the wires to the EMT, I wrapped each wire once around a hog-ring (positioned to act as a "stop" to prevent the wire from pulling back through the hole), and then crimped the hog-ring to secure it. (I would advise clipping the loose wire ends off at a couple of inches rather than leaving them long the way I did, and that way the ends won't catch in the netting as you're installing it.) I connected the end of each perimeter wire to the perimeter fence and then raised the poles up one by one, just like pushing up a tent pole. The grid of wires, anchored at the edges to the fence, is all that holds the tops of the poles in position, and the bottoms just rest on the surface of the ground (or on bricks, rather, which prevent the poles from sinking into the ground when it rains). So, there's no "shear" force on the poles at all--it's strictly a very small compressive load consisting of just enough tension on the wires to hold things in place, and the negligible weight/wind resistance of the netting. It's especially convenient if you need to reach up to the netting or the top of a pole for some reason, because all you have to do is lift the bottom of the pole a few inches off the ground and swing it out, which drops the top down to where you can reach it, and then put it back in position. Easy to build, and easy to maintain. I was able to erect the whole framework right over my existing trees, and then pull the netting up over the top with almost no need for a ladder.
goldie Registered: 1287693665 Posts: 61	1304183992 I can't wait to show my husband! Great job.
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1305825296 It's SO NICE to go out and see fruit ripening with no bird bites! I love it! There are lots of persimmons and peaches, but far fewer apricots, apples, and plums. I don't know if it's lack of bees, wrong pollinator trees, poor soil, inadequate pruning, or what, but at least the fruit that does set gets a chance to develop, and now I can focus on figuring out how to improve yields instead of battling birds, javelinas & coyotes. The cage is also home to ten little in-ground figs with room for about six more. The few veggies planted here and there have been growing nicely as well, now that the quail can no longer nip them off as soon as the first tender shoots break the surface. The black plastic around the perimeter is to keep out smaller birds that can squeeze through larger wire (1 1/2" stucco mesh) that was used in some sections. If I had done it right, with a 3' high perimeter fence of half-inch galvanized welded wire, the plastic wouldn't have been necessary, but hey--live and learn.
Dan_la Registered: 1189771593 Posts: 1,438	1305825838 Very very nice. Your hard work is paying off. Dan Semper Fi-cus
go4broek Registered: 1287592943 Posts: 1,200	1305827197 very cool! My master plan was just to overwhelm the little buggers with numbers of things to eat. lol
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1307736991 In the interest of full disclosure, I've learned that the netting isn't quite as effective as I'd hoped. Early on, when the cage was in the planning stage, I conducted a test with a piece of the netting and a verdin (a tiny bird with a gigantic appetite). I put him in a big tin can, rubber-banded the mesh over the top and laid the can on its side. The verdin squeezed through in nothing flat. So, I knew these cute little stinkers would be able to get through, but hoped the netting would at least be a deterrent. Unfortunately, as the peaches and the second apricot tree peaked, the verdins became highly motivated and are now quite skilled at popping in and out through the netting, wherever and whenever they feel like it. I was just out looking things over and saw three of them zip right through the mesh in about five minutes. It's still 100% effective on all the other birds, so once the figs get decent-sized I may be able to keep most of the fruit. But, it's disappointing, and of course, the birds go for the nicest, ripest fruit. Anybody else who uses this netting will likely be okay if their local birds aren't that small, but the maximum opening size to stop verdins is 1/2 by 1/2, and this looks to be about 5/8 x 5/8. So, I'll be trying to come up with a new way to stop them.
hoosierbanana Registered: 1287901146 Posts: 2,186	1307762766 Maybe a cat or two? Reflective tape works for a while at least on the birds around here.
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1307766661 Yes, the cat idea is worth thinking about, but I'm afraid the birds wouldn't get in range very often--most of the fruit is out on skinny branches that wouldn't support a cat. I even had a fleeting thought about getting a falconer's permit so I could put a kestrel on guard duty, but I'd probably need a whole team of them. The verdins are pretty bold--I don't think they'd be fooled more than a few minutes by reflective tape or other scare-type measures. On the bright side, I emailed the netting supplier to say that if he ever starts carrying 1/2x1/2 in large quantities to let me know, and he wrote back and said he just found a supplier and will be sending me details. Probably not in the budget for this year, but maybe next. In the meantime, if anyone is being bothered by finch-sized (or larger) birds and wants a screaming deal on a single, huge, already-spliced sheet of netting, 42 feet x 135 feet with 3/4x3/4 openings (they're a little bigger than I was guessing in my previous post), just let me know!
hoosierbanana Registered: 1287901146 Posts: 2,186	1307833097 How about playing their alarm call? It is the third call on this recording here http://www.mirror-pole.com/collpage/verdin/verdin.mp3. Good luck, they do look like tough little birds.
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1307837101 Interesting--that's just how they sound when I go inside the cage, but they don't seem very alarmed--often they just flit to the other side of the tree. Perhaps that call also means, "Here comes our waiter--maybe he's bringing dessert!" Several forum members have said that mesh is the only way to protect fruit from birds, and I'm convinced they're right. Birds seem to get used to deterrents very quickly, and then ignore them. In this case, I was the victim of my own wishful thinking--I figured that the slightly larger mesh openings would still exclude all, or at least, most, of the verdins, and that a few tiny birds couldn't do that much damage. Ha! I didn't realize there would be so many--the netting actually makes it better for them because they don't have to compete with the big birds, and they seem to be flocking from all over. Even if I was inclined to shoot them, which I'm not, there are simply too many for it to be effective. So, at some point I'll have to bite the bullet (or the B.B.) and buy the smaller-sized netting. My wife at least supports the idea--after tasting all those peaches along with the first batch of apricots (before the little stinkers figured out how to get in), I think she would do whatever it takes to keep harvesting tree-ripened fruit. In the meantime, I'll be out there with clothespins and newspaper, covering the last of the apricots and the first of the plums--maybe losing a few battles but still confident about eventually winning the war.
terowan Registered: 1236978318 Posts: 95	1307844234 Ken, do you have enough leftover 3/4 x 3/4 netting to put another layer on top of the original? Maybe the holes would not line up and so would be smaller.
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1307846512 Thanks Tim--it's a good thought. However, I calculated just the amount I would need and bought only that much--nothing was left over, other than a narrow "safety margin" around the edges to make sure I didn't run short. Fortunately I took care not to trim it or make cuts anywhere, so it's still a nice clean rectangle, and I expect I'll be able to find someone who can use it through ebay or craigslist, once I've replaced it with 1/2x1/2. Hopefully the price of the new material will be in the same ballpark as what I originally bought, so it won't break the budget!
hoosierbanana Registered: 1287901146 Posts: 2,186	1307864970 Too bad you can't just shrink it in the dryer! A kestrel is not a bad idea, maybe call up local wildlife rescues and tell them you have an enclosure for a bird that cannot go back to the wild. Win-win right? You would only need a wildlife holding permit for that.
go4broek Registered: 1287592943 Posts: 1,200	1307881330 Ken, I had just placed an order for 600'x14' of that netting to cover my garden and greenhouse area after seen your posts. Hopefully I can get it changed to the smaller size since that pesky little bird is danger close according to a map I found. Thanks for letting us know about that rascal! I was only tracking mockingirds and cardinals as major bandits around here.
snaglpus Registered: 1244258188 Posts: 4,072	1307883982 Ken, I love your set up. You have a good investment. I'm at that point where I have to cover my entire orchard. I thought that netting was 1/2 inch or at least like the kind you get a your local hardware store. I found the 3 birds that are attacking my trees. Now they have started on my container trees. I already lost several White marseilles figs but haven't given up. I guess if my trees were large and were full of fruit I wouldn't mind so much but they aren't. The area I plan on covering is a backwards "F" shape which is about 80 feet long and 40 feet wide. First I have to start and finish my irrigation system, I'm starting that on Thursday. Then comes the bird netting. Fox Sparrows are the biggest problem in my area. I think netting is the only solution to keeping them out. thanks for posting and good luck!
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1320340270 UPDATE Sad to say, but unless the netting supplier comes through on his promise to start carrying the 1/2x1/2 mesh in 2012, the fruit cage experiment will all be for naught. The verdins may be tiny but their appetites are gigantic, and they've come to absolutely love the cage since they can zip right through the mesh with ease and don't have to compete with any larger birds, which can't get in. In effect, all I've done is create a verdins-only, fresh-fruit buffet. I took these bird-damage shots a few minutes ago; now the only safe figs are the ones wearing armor. At any rate, I've been able to determine that the basic concept is sound, so if I can find the smaller mesh in bulk for a low enough price, I'm confident it will work like a charm. Until then, I'm saving plastic berry boxes.
pitangadiego Registered: 1188871011 Posts: 5,447	1320343650 Ken, See Birdnet See you Saturday?
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1320347531 Thanks Jon; good info, but unless I can find comparable prices to what I purchased previously, it will be outside of my budget. Unfortunately, I won't be able to make it up to Phoenix on Saturday after all. I'm helping with a family friend's eagle scout project in the morning and serving food at a church barbecue in the afternoon. There's never enough time to do it all! Good luck with your talk--I expect it will be worth more than all the pomegranate presentations put together!
pitangadiego Registered: 1188871011 Posts: 5,447	1320364780 Ken, Maybe you can stagger two layers of the larger-opening net to make one layer that has holes half the size.
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1320419456 Maybe--although I think it would be close to impossible to keep both layers offset to just the right amount. For now, I'll wait for the 1/2x1/2 to be available in bulk at a wholesale price. I checked with the distributor yesterday, and he said he's still planning to carry it, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
FrozenJoe Registered: 1244509224 Posts: 1,115	1320426248 Ken, In the meanwhile you can get some 1/2" bird netting and throw it over the individual trees to save whats left of your crop for this year. Home Depot and Lowes sell it. Joe
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1320426498 Thanks Joe, good idea.
lukeott Registered: 1311470849 Posts: 645	1320444321 Hey Ken, pretty neat set up. i was thinking about your problem with the birds and other pest. my father in law use to live in fort pierce florida and his neighbor had a pool which had a screen house covering the pool. the fella said if you own a pool in florida it was a must. so my thought is maybe looking into screening. some of that stuff last a long time and that would stop birds and bugs. wouldn't hurt to look into, i'm sure they make it in wide and long rolls. hope this helps, might be something i might try to do in the future. luke
TucsonKen Registered: 1246833094 Posts: 1,298	1320445153 Another good idea--thanks Luke. window screen would definitely work to keep the birds and other critters out, but would add a lot of weight and wind resistance, which would ultimately require a redo of the structure as well. I won't rule it out, but definitely want to eliminate the least expensive, easiest, lowest visual-impact options first. One way or the other, though, I'm committed to finding a workable, convenient solution for protecting a sizeable bunch of trees.