Hello,
I've been searching, reading and using all the great info available on this site. Thanks!
I am new to Figs but not to gardening. Since joining this forum, I have purchased and acquired 20 named 5 unknown fig varieties (named varieties were recommended for the northeast).

Attached are pictures of two unknown trees and figs, any help in finding the actual varietal names is appreciated.

The dark fig has a closed (tight) eye, small seeds and is sweet with a light raspberry finish. The dark fig tree has never been winterized and was severely pruned (to 3 feet) 5 years ago. The tree started ripening figs from mid July and is currently still ripening figs. The tree is approximately 12 Feet tall and 15 feet in diameter. There are currently five (5) one gallon rooted air layers attached under the canopy, on 1-1/2 inch and larger diameter branches. These air layers will be planted at my home in Upstate NY. Due to her age, the owner can no longer pick the figs from this tree. I will be (severely) pruning this tree later this year to the Japanese or Step-over espalier form to allow her easier access to the figs.  I will be calling this fig "BryantDark" for easier referencing.

The white fig has a very small eye, almost no seeds and is sweet with a creamy (rich) finish. The tree started ripening figs in late August and there are only a few figs remaining on the tree. The white fig tree has not been winterized in the last ten years but the roots have been protected with mulch.  I will be calling this fig "KrmkLight" for easier referencing.

neither fig has a distinct "fig" taste (or complex after taste, like Hardy Chicago). Both figs are growing in The Bronx, NY (at different locations). These pictures were taken on 9/28/12. I have access to three other fig trees that may require ID. All seem to be FMD (FMV) symptom free.

Please help with ID.
Thanks

welcome Pete!! sorry I can't help with the ID, hopefully someone will be able to help. those figs look delicious!!

Welcome Pete, I am also new to the fig fever, Cannot help you here, But I am interested In the one of the Air layers or cutting later in the season if they are for sale, I am also in New york like you.
Mark

Hi Pete and welcome . Good looking figs , but sorry I don't know enough as yet about figs to even render a guess. I know someone will though.

CTFIGS, Thanks...They taste good, but I do not have a lot to reference.

Lebmark, Thanks...I have a 1 gallon plant (potted in June) that you can have for free (Dark fig). I am in the Bronx 3-4 days a week (Morris Park section). Hopefully I will be able to offer cuttings for free (from the unknowns), after leaf fall. I purchased plants from Petals from the Past, Almost Eden and Edible Landscaping. Most plants have fruited (most pinched) and at least tripled in size. Only complaint is that these plants came with Leaf Rust which has infected my Local rust free plants. Note the leaf pictures show no signs of rust. With all the rain, it is difficult keeping ahead of the rust (currently 74 potted plants).

Pattee, Thanks...The Dark figs are smaller and lighter in color than the figs that ripened in August or early September. The White figs are also smaller but sweeter.

Pete,
Too new to help but wanted to say hello and welcome.  Good luck with the ID of your figs.  Do you know the history of any of your figs?

Doug, Thanks... I do not know the history of these figs (figs are not part of my ethnic heritage), but I know the neighborhood. I grew up several blocks from the Dark Fig, which is currently owned by an old family friend. The neighborhood had many Italian/Americans 40 years ago. I can personally trace the tree back 35 years at this location. The white fig and the other three unknowns that I am currently growing were passed around by Italian/American neighbors in the Morris Park section of The Bronx. These figs trees are at least 30 years old.

Pete...

Nice story to go with the nicer figs.  Thanks for the posting.  Always interested to read stories about figs that come from my surrounding nabes.  Da-Bronx is loaded with some good unknowns...clean too.  No FMV here!  However, there are some real "dogs" growing around here also.  I've eaten plenty of dry, latexy, corks from neighbor's trees. Yech!

Happy harvesting of your sweet crops.

Frank
Bronx, Throggs Neck

Welcome to the forum

The first one looks like one of the varieties that goes by the name Sicilian Red (or sometimes Red Sicilian).  However, there seem to be at least two different cultivars that get called Sicilian Red, so I won't be surprised if you find other members with more expertise telling you it's not Red Sicilian.  (Maybe the "other" version of Red Sicilian is considered the true one by that name).  Here's a link to another ID with pics:  http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Red-Sicilian-fig-5532817 
(the color of the interior could be from different levels of ripeness, but in most characteristics it looks close).  

From the leaf, it seems like one of the Mount Etna types.

Welcome to the forum.  Happy figging.

Mike   central NY state, zone 5

Sixth row, down two. Looks a lot like your white fig (leaf) known as Marsielles. Don't know the other still comparing.

I enjoy seeing members discover new varieties

Frank, Thanks...I have found other large trees, but the figs are usually tasteless or have large eyes and were rotting. I have taken cuttings from the five best trees that I had found (there are hundreds more).

Jennifer, Thanks for the welcome. I'm happy to be here. I have White Marseilles (from Petals from the Past) and they are different.

Mike, Thanks... The dark fig does look like the linked pictures of Red Sicilian. I guessed that the fig may be a Dark Sicilian and a Mount Etna Type. The major difference that I can see in the pictures is the fig eyes. At no time in the ripening process did the fig eyes on the dark fig open. The eyes stayed fairly closed and did not split, even with the heavy rains we had this year. At several points the tree was standing in 3-4 inches of water runoff (for several days). The dark figs are usually darker (burgundy), but the Red Sicilian looks very close, especially with the thin skins. Thanks again.

Another note: If the figs are left out at room temperature for 1 to 2 day after picking the berry flavor increases (I accidentally left a few figs in the car).


  

Jennifer,  
Pete's white fig is not Marseilles, in my opinion.  The eye is different, the shape of the fig is different, the flesh is different (in color, in texture, in size of filaments), Pete's fig is hollow in the center and Marseilles is not, and the leaf texture seems different too.  I don't know what it is, but I believe it is not Marseilles.

Mike   central NY state, zone 5

IDing Etnas seems really tricky. The fruit looks just like Sals but might be something else. Sals has a real sugary pop that I like.

Hoosierbanana, Thanks for commenting. I don't believe it is a Sal's (EL) because of the Forum description of the taste and pictures. I had a few ripe Hardy Chicago figs and they have a complex taste and a memorable finish (after taste). I have another dark unknown that has that complex type taste and I believe it may be similar to Sal's (EL), the leaves also match the posted Sal's (EL), five lobed shallow sinus. I aborted the Sal's (EL) fruit and opted for vegetative growth. I will be able to compare next year.

[QUOTE]... The major difference that I can see in the pictures is the fig eyes. At no time in the ripening process did the fig eyes on the dark fig open. The eyes stayed fairly closed and did not split, even with the heavy rains we had this year.  ... [/QUOTE]

Yeah, I noticed your comments about the eye in your first description, and wondered about that.  Overall I think there are slight differences among individual figs or even "strains" but still often considered variations within a given cultivar.  (It can get pretty arbitrary where the lines are drawn... from your comments I guess you're on top of that notion).  I do think that the splitting characteristics can arise from genetic difference or from culture difference as well.  The eye closure seems interesting and notable though, and yet from your photo, the one on the right didn't look completely closed (as the one on the left does), when I looked at it.  It looks fairly tight, but not completely closed.  It was hard to tell without some end-on pics... maybe the picture is misleading, since your description seems pretty clear and concise :-).  But In any case, I think that fig is pretty closely related to those Sicilian varieties (and likely came from there).

I hope you have good luck with them.  I too am on a quest to find varieties that will grow and produce well in upstate NY, (I'm a bit farther "up" than you are I guess, up in Broome County), with minimal winter protection (hopefully I'll find some that when mature can survive with mostly passive protective measures).  I have a Red Sicilian that was given to me by another member, and it's one of the ones that I might trial inground up against a southern exposed wall, once it gets a few years older.  My area is a true zone 5a though (it was 4b until the most recent maps came out), and I'm guessing you're more like zone 6 down there in Ulster County.  I'll be interested to hear how that one does for you, after you have it at your Ulster locale.

Mike   central NY state, zone 5

I really like Mt. Etnas, I have a bunch too but so far only tasted figs from Sal's, Gino's, Marseilles Black VS, and a couple of local unknowns.

Mike, I agree that there are differences due to culture in figs. I have observed several. An obvious one is in leaves, the mother dark fig tree has wide lobes, and all my rooted clones have narrow lobes, resembling those of Hardy Chicago. One large Cutting (over 1 inch in diameter and 4 feet tall), which is planted in a 5 gallon container produced fig embryos that were dark red not pale green.

I should have used "Tight" instead of "Closed" for the description of the fig eye. It is very tight until ripening at which point it remains fairly tight. As per other fig eye discussions on this forum, I am aware that ripe fig eyes are never closed, and that as they ripen they open. In my limited observations, I have found several figs that open just enough to allow fruit flies and small ants to enter. These openings are small, not as large as Brown Turkey's, but there is still a small pathway to the interior of the fig. The dark fig's eyes did enlarge but did not open, at no time did I find small fruit flies or small ants inside of intact figs. The only way that these figs soured or rotted was when holes were made on the sides by Wasps and Birds.

One of my goals for growing figs is to establish a similar in ground orchard. I am in the Rondout Valley and it has been revised to zone 6. Best of Luck to you also. I can send cuttings for your trials, when they are available and I would be interested to hear your observations.

Pete,
I agree with the other post and it is a great story. I would imagine that the families would only take the time to preserve and plant the figs that were the very best in flavor.  Beautiful looking plants. Would love to trade in the future when I have something to offer.  It looks like you are well on your way to pinning down an identification. 

[QUOTE=ascpete]dmartin, Thanks... I do not know the history of these figs (figs are not part of my ethnic heritage), but I know the neighborhood. I grew up several blocks from the Dark Fig, which is currently owned by an old family friend. The neighborhood had many Italian/Americans 40 years ago. I can personally trace the tree back 35 years at this location. The white fig and the other three unknowns that I am currently growing were passed around by Italian/American neighbors in the Morris Park section of The Bronx. These figs trees are at least 30 years old.[/QUOTE]

dmartin, The dark fig tree is a very healthy and productive plant. To my knowledge It has not been fertilized or watered (other than rain) in the past 20 years. PM me and I will notify you when cuttings for the dark fig are available.

Pete,
PM sent.  Thank you.

It's nice "meeting" you Pete.  Rondout Valley has some beautiful country... how far are you from Minnewaska?  Once we get into leaf-dropping time and I do my fall pruning, I'll let you know what cuttings might be available to trade some with you.
  
As for culture differences... yeah... lots of impact.  I'm becoming convinced that splitting (or not) is one of the characteristics that is heavily affected by culture.  And ability to hold the fruit until ripening versus dropping them, seems heavily influenced by culture too.  In one of the varieties I have, I've got two trees that are clones from the same branch of the same mother, living in identical pots right next to each other through the summer.  But they're in different soil... one in promix with a few things added, and the other in native soil.  (I ran out of promix when I potted them).  Both trees are thriving, and both made figs this year, but one of them held the figs to ripen and the other dropped them all.  The dynamics, mechanics, and chemistry that's involved in how the roots regulate water management and nutrient uptake... it's just a huge impact for these potted trees.  I wouldn't be surprised if that sort of thing explains why some people say that Celeste splits and drops fruit, yet other people report no problem at all with that.  It could be genetic differences in their strains of Celeste, but from what I've seen it could just as easily be culture variations, maybe even more likely.  Variations in culture just seem huge.

Talk with you later.

Mike   central NY state, zone 5

Mike,
Thank you, the feeling is mutual. I am closer to the west end of the valley, on the south facing slope, about 10 miles from Minnewaska. I look forward to your list. Thanks again.

Hello from NY as well Pete!

Westchester county, though!

It would be nice to trade some cuttings in a couple months, will get back on that, I am very much interested in obtaining some trees that are already "weathered" up here in the region.

Take care, and good luck with the ID attempt!

I wonder if the 'neglect' of proper pruning forced the tree into making smaller fruits.   when the tree puts so much energy in making foliage where not needed, it lacks for fruiting. Or over producing also can make smaller fruits, this happens to other fruits as well (apples, peaches)- should have some to compare after a proper pruning.  In my tall tree, I get larger fruits where I pruned better, the branches I ignored, also ignored me!   

I believe the smaller fruit described above may be due to the trees winding down production and colder air temperatures. Your observations on pruning would apply to all fruit and flowers. If fruit is thinned and unnecessary foliage pruned the resulting fruit would typically be larger and possibly tastier. It may also ripen earlier. Most commercial fruiting trees and vines (grapes) are pruned for fruit production. That is one reason why I will be pruning using the Japanese espalier methods.

I was gifted a mature fig tree that has been growing next to the Bryantdark mother tree (it is visible in the first picture in the opening post of this topic). I had to transplant the tree ASAP because the in ground fig trees in NYC are breaking bud (waking from dormancy). The figs ripen later than the Bryantdark but have a mild "fig" taste and are sweeter.

 I will be calling it NolaDark for reference.
The tree has been cut back to ground level for the past 20 years, but has always grown back. I will try to post pictures of mature figs later this season.


 It took 6 hours to dig out and the main trunk (root) had a caliper of about 4 inches at 18 inches below soil line. The main trunk (root) was cut with a saw. The pruned ends are currently rooting in Sphagnum moss.

Pete, this tree will reward you for your long sweaty effort.
that is a nice rescue!

[QUOTE=MichaelTucson] In one of the varieties I have, I've got two trees that are clones from the same branch of the same mother, living in identical pots right next to each other through the summer.  But they're in different soil... one in promix with a few things added, and the other in native soil.  (I ran out of promix when I potted them).  Both trees are thriving, and both made figs this year, but one of them held the figs to ripen and the other dropped them all. [/QUOTE]


I thought I asked this and you already answered but maybe it was on a different thread.  Which dropped the fruit, the one in promix or the one in the native soil?  Thanks.

Some people save dogs, some people save cats, some people save turtles and dolphins, some people save injured animals, then there are those of us that save figs.  Thanks Pete for saving that NY fig tree!

Grasa, ... Hopefully. The effort was spread out over two evenings and one extended lunch "hour".

Steve, ... Hopefully the tree will thank me with figs this year.

Update: 4/26/13... Breba figs are currently swelling and leaf buds are opening on the Bryantdark in ground fig tree in NYC. Highs are 60's and Lows are 50's.

Goodie goodie can't wait!!!!!!!!!

Zone8
South West TX

Pete, My Chicago Hardy finally broke bud and threw out brebas up in Dutchess today.

Pete:

We are very grateful that you have done so much hard work saving some of these heirloom treasures.  You have been quite generous with the air-layers, and especially your friendship.  I personally want to thank you for the "Bryant-Dark" air-layer.  I think it will give me figs this season.  I can't wait!

Continued good luck and much success with your fig collection.


Frank

Update... 6/6/2013

Frank, ... You're welcome and Thanks, collecting and sharing cuttings from these plants not only benefit me (with healthy plants and figs) but also the community as a whole by placing healthy productive cultivars into circulation. Posting pictures of the tree's seasonal growth is to document The fruiting characteristics which will be applicable anywhere the tree is grown. 

Pictures of the Bryant Dark mother tree taken 6/5/2013.
Pictures of the Krmklight mother tree taken 5/3/2013 and 6/5/2013 with breba and main crop embryos.


 

Update: 6/21/2013

Unknown-Bryantdark and Unknown-Krmklight mother trees.

Krmklight today...After.

Update 7/19/13

Pictures of ripe Bryantdark breba.
The Jammy looking breba has the same taste as main crop figs.
The fig that was half eaten by birds (I ate the other half) was ripe, soft but firm and had a sweet acidic flavor similar to the acidic flavor of Hardy Chicago, but stronger. I prefer the flavor of the ripe (sweet acidic) over the very ripe (light raspberry jam) breba, neither has a figgy flavor..
Note the eyes are tight even on the "over ripe" fig, there was no leakage.


The figs also stay on the tree and do not drop or shake loose. The picture (poor quality) above from last year, of the main crop figs drying on the tree.

Looks great.  I love how dark the center is.

Pete....

More great documentation, and photos. 

"Bryant Dark"...potentially a two crop tree?  Breba, and main-cropper, that's good, and the story gets better as the photo essay goes along.

If it rivals "Bensonhurst Purple" / "Hardy Chicago" how can you lose?  Delicious figs, plus no FMD/V and, it grows unprotected in The Bronx, NYC,  Zone-7.

Thanks for the up-dated information.


Frank

Wow Pete those breba look super tasty.

Bob C,
The picture was taken in natural sunlight, and I had to get a good angle for better illumination, its actually a bit darker than pictured. The picture below was taken in Florescent lighting and is also lot lighter (and more yellow) than actual.

Frank,
Thanks.
It doesn't come close to Hardy Chicago in flavor. It just had the acidic finish flavor of HC. HC has a figgy flavor and a complex taste, with that acidic finish (after taste). I prefer the flavor of Hardy Chicago over the Bryantdark. The Bryantdark mother tree ripens figs from now until frost. The pictured figs were what was missed, after the tree was harvested earlier in the day. It is currently ripening about a dozen per day.
In fact Hardy Chicago is and has been my benchmark for dark figs, until I taste something better.

JohnnieB,
It was!

Attached is a picture of someone eating their first fig... one of the Bryantdark breba. I think we have another one hooked.

Wow Pete , I love the color - that jammy look ! Can't wait for mine to come of age. Thanks for all the updates .

You guys really inspire me!

Pete...

For me, any fig will do....even, "Brown Turkey" is just fine by me, as long as they are ripe.  Hate the latex hit on the tongue, from picked-to-soon figs.

Photo/text documentation is first-rate, and actually, interesting to follow.  Can't wait for the batch of ripe fig photos coming shortly.

Frank

Hi Pete,

I'm new to the forum and have been trying to learn as much as I can about the different varieties of figs.  I noticed early in this thread you had mentioned the possibility of cuttings from the unknown trees.  If you have any available the the BryantDark and the KrmkLight trees, I'd be happy to pay for the cuttings and postage.  PM me if you have any or will have any.

Thanks,
Jules 

Hello Jules,
This is actually the wrong time of the year for cuttings. Please PM me later in the year, and I will notify you when they become available. Thanks.

Update 7/26/13
Attached are pictures of Krmklight Breba picked today. On an extended lunch break, I went visiting looking for a few ripe breba figs. I was given permission to pick these two. They are not fully ripe, but it was "either now or never", there were only a few breba left on the tree.
The figs were sweet and mildly creamy without a figgy flavor, If they were fully ripe they may have been as sweet as the main crop figs from last year.

Update 8/23/13
Attached pictures of main crop figs harvested today from the Bryantdark in ground mother tree. Approximately 7 gallons were picked from an 8 foot ladder in 30 minutes, and the top of the tree was out of reach. The flavor is the same as last year no fig taste, sweet with a mild raspberry flavor and some seed crunch. Figs have been ripening for the past 1-1/2 weeks.