I do not own one but thought some of you would be interested. I don't really like the idea of pumping all the nasty chemicals that are in gasoline into the soil but I guess lot's end up there anyway.

http://www.undergroundexterm.com/

Brent!!  You have become my new hero!  It's so much cheaper than that Rodenator, but if it works like they say, it's going on the list!  Wonder how long it would take to do 1.4 acres....

It would take a really long hose!!

Suzi

Great Suzi, let us know how it works. I read some discussions on another forum about how this and the rodenator could end up killing unintended animals that live in abandoned burrows; like those cute little owls and black footed ferrets. So please try to be careful and target what you know are active holes.

I remember a neighbor used this idea on moles,
and voles in his lawn when I was a just a small boy in Connecticut.
Worked great as I remember!

I just sent the dude an email asking how to know if a hole is active.  The property is studded with holes, and if there are leaves on the ground, you find yourself sinking into a tunnel that you didn't know was there.  It's hard to walk on the land there are so many tunnels.  I also asked him how long to let the car idle if you have several hoses joined together.  No way can we drive a car down that rocky hill!

Do ATV's use gas?  Maybe we can rent one to navigate the hill.

GO NINERS!
Suzi

You can/will risk damage to your engine if not used properly.
The engine needs to breathe. Cut off the supply and it's over.

These engines are not designed for such a long and constricted travel to escape. An unseen kink to the hose is all it takes.

Suzi not arguing with Rafed hes right about the kink.
But being in the auto biz (mech) for 20+yrs I had my shop piped with 2.5 in galvanized pipe like used for a direct vent gas fireplace around the whole shop exiting the roof and I also had to run cars at 55mph on my dyno for NYSI  for extended periods of time you can always install a flapper in the exhaust just like Rafed would have on the top of one of his exhaust stacks on a truck they keep rain out when engine is off but positioned the right way and they would work as a dump valve in case you get a kinked or clogged up hose.

Why not use firewood or charcoal? Just BBQ and throw in the charcoal and cover the hole. It will consume Oxygen, and produce CO at the same time.

Thanks for all the warnings!  I copied them into a word doc for JD, so we do things correctly.

hmmmmmmmmm, Jimmychao!  So one piece of charcoal per hole?  I wish there was a way to figure out where the other end of the tunnel is.  So many holes everywhere.  JD wonders if that would be enough, and I'd hate to start a brush fire accidentally.........

Suzi

Well Anthony,

You just took an idea and perfected it.

2.5 pipe would be more practicle than a typical garden hose that's probably less than a half inch inside diameter.

Suzi,

If you use firewood, you should see smoke coming out of the hole if they are connected. Then you can plug that hole with dirt. Not sure how much firewood or charcoal will needed. You just need to clean up the bush around the hole you are going to throw in the firewood. Once you cover the hole, I don't see the risk of getting bush fire, because it will burn slowly underground.

You could go to a welding gas supply shop,
and rent a cylinders(s) of Carbon Monoxide.
More mobile to move around that way.
They come in 20 lbs, 50lbs, 100lbs, and up sized tanks.
They will even deliver, and pick up in tank sizes over 50lbs.
or if you get multipal tanks. For example: four to five 20lb tanks at a time.
Expect to be charged for pickup, and delivery though.
There is an inital (refundable) deposit on the tank, and regulator,
But, they are usually pretty cheap to refill if need be.
Attach any length of flexable aquarium air hose to the regular,
Then a 3 foot length if ridgid air tubing to the end of the flexable air hose.
And then go along and stick the ridgid tubing into the hill as you walk along,
turning on/off the regular with no bending or stooping that way.

How about some calcium carbide down the hole?

This is my favorite thread!  Such great information!  I love the smoke coming out the other hole to see what is connected!  I love the idea of the portable Carbon Monoxide cylinders.  And the idea of a pipe instead of a hose that could kink.

Suzi

The only problem I see with the car engine idea is, 
the odor of the exhaust would tip them off that they've been invaded,
and they would quickly exit their tunnels unharmed.

Pure Carbon Monoxide from the cylinder is colorless, odorless, and tasteless.
They have no idea they're being gassed. They simply go to sleep, 
and their heart simply stops. Most humane, non-poisonous way to go.
Great instant fertilizer too! LOL

Well, I did a little more reading.

Rafed, it is apparently not designed to fit tightly so some gases and moisture can escape and that is supposed to prevent back pressure. There is a locking screw that holds it on so as long as it is not too tight it should blow off if it is blocked.

Some people were saying that because cars are so much cleaner now it will not work as well. Some people say it fixed their problem good. One said it made him sick because he hung out in the area too long. One guy suggested taking the muffler off a lawnmower and threading the hose right in, then someone else pointed out that would melt the hose for sure and the first guy said yeah, I was joking because it is stupid idea and I was just showcasing that...

The Amazon reviews are either great (maybe a little too great?) or really bad with most of those complaining that it did not fit on a pipe larger than 3" or work with dual exhaust and others said it does not have clear instructions. One person said it did not work because the ground is not air tight so maybe soil type is a real factor.

When I was a kid we had woodchucks. We'd throw smoke bombs in their holes to help find other exits. Then we block the other exits with a shovel full of dirt and if close enough to the house we flood them out with the hose. If not we pour gasoline down the hole and either just wait as the gas is a super irritant and causes them to come out or we'd light the gas and it would suck the oxygen out of the tunnels.
Like Jimmy says above you can use charcoal, etc. if you want to be "green" about it.
Unfortunately since 9-11 most of the things we used when I was a kid just aren't legal any more. 

I still want one of these but the tanks needed to go along with it are too cumbersome for little 'o me especially for a hillside.

http://www.rodenator.com/pests-controls-videos-rodenators

These guys look like they are having way too much fun blowing things up. One good thing about this is it collapses the holes and kills the varmit all at once.

Sue

I received a nice email back from the inventor: 

I found another idea today on the web.  DRY ICE!
I like it because you don't have to worry about wrecking your engine or starting a fire:

Instructions

1. • 1

     Use landscaping flags to mark the location of every gopher hole in your yard. If your yard is very close to your neighbor's you may need to coordinate efforts with them, so that the gophers don't run for cover temporarily in the neighbor's yard.

   • 2

     Put on a heavy insulated glove before you touch the dry ice. It's very dangerous to touch it with your bare skin, you can become injured. Also wear protective eye goggles whenever you have to break dry ice.

   •  
   • 3

     Use a chisel and a hammer to break the dry ice into 1-2 inch chunks. If you're lucky, your brick or cube will come pre-scored, but this isn't often the case. They don't need to be exact, but 1-2 inches is a guide.

   • 4

     Place a chunk of dry ice into each gopher hole as deeply as you can reach with your arm. Immediately cover the hole with dirt.

   • 5

     Repeat with the rest of the holes as quickly as you can. The dry ice will sublimate (not melt) and carbon dioxide will sink down into the holes, cutting off the oxygen supply for the gophers and gently sending them to sleep. Forever. Mwahahahahaha.

Sounds like blind ambition.

I hope it works for you , but just remember the massive wildfires we've had in our area. People we know got burned alive. Just take great care with it.

Suzi, so does that bring new meaning to MPG,  "miles per gopher"? of os that GPG, "gallons per gopher"?

Has anyone considered why the mole is hated?

He does not eat roots!

He does eat a great amount of grubs that do considerable damage to roots.

He will not poop in the yard!

He will aerate compacted soils.

He is very territorial occupying about an acre which he will defend and allow no other moles until he dies or a lady mole comes by.

If you kill him his territory will be occupied with a new mole almost immediately.

He patrols his territory (your yard) almost non stop exterminating subterranean bugs and grubs and yes he'll eat an earthworm too.

His fur is softer than chinchilla and repels dirt.

He really isn't a bad guy but the grubs he eats are!

Do a little research and you might find out he is beneficial to you.

Surface tunnels wreak havoc in suburban yards. I would as soon have the mole, but most people prefer the lawn.

You've piqued my interest Darkman. Why do people hate them? Just for the holes they make? I thought they did damage plants. (We have no gophers or moles/voles at my place. The trade off is a backyard that is 60ft by 30ft).

Lawn dies when grubs eat roots, moles are blamed?

Not sure about moles.  We don't have those.  What we do have are gophers who will eat the roots of any plant or tree including roses and figs!  We also have voles and rats who eat plants and trees too!  The only lawn we have is an artificial turf putting green that even the rabbits don't bother.  Coyotes and Bobcats take care of some of the rabbits, but even THEY hate gophers and voles.  Did I mention rattlesnakes? 

Definitely going to try the dry ice trick first!

Suzi

[QUOTE=DesertDance]

Definitely going to try the dry ice trick first!

Suzi[/QUOTE]

Call your local dry ice distributor,
they sell dry ice in pellet form,
usually comes in 50lb bags,
no breaking and cheaper than supermarket.
It will also sublimate faster because there is more surface area per pound.

Realize, whatever method you choose to try,
plan on repeating it several times a year or more.
There is no one time solution really,
you can only mitigate the problem to some degree.
But the method you choose and its success rate for your situation
will only determine the frequency you will need to repeat this process.

It sounds like you have so many holes, you might need to fill some
before starting any treatment, air exchange is probably too high
to make any gas or vapor treatment effective,
and when you do use this method, do it on a calm day for best results.

You might want to consider using insulating spray foam in a can,
what you can find at home depot/lowes.
This is essentially the same product used when they cap empty mine shafts,
just not as strong.
They can chew through it, but maybe eat it will kill them :-)
Plugging many of your holes will make you gas treatment more effective,
and thus lessen the frequency you need to do this to stay ahead of your problem.
Good Luck

Question,  how are you going to trellis for your grapes on such uneven terrain ?

Hungryjack, thanks for all that great advice!  I put it on my critter control word doc for the property, so I don't forget any of it!

Trellising the grapes will happen on all the chain link fence posts around the property.  At least 3/4 of an acre is fully fenced.  The other grapes will be head trained.  They will look like small trees, and I plan to group them by varietal.  Like Ficus Carica, different varieties of Vitis Vinefera have different growth patterns.  Some do better head trained than trained on trellises, especially on hillsides.  Zinfandel is one.

Here is an example of head trained grapes:


They look like mini trees!

Suzi

Darman et al,
  It isn't the mole that's the bad guy (other than tunneling near the surface and making trip hazards) -- it is his cousin the vole that does the majority of the plant damage that people on this forum are most concerned with.
Jim

OK, good luck with the varmints.
I would hire some local help for the day,
get a couple of cases of spray foam
and let them fill as many holes as  possible before gassing them,
it will be much more effective that way.

Didn't know they grew grapes commercially that way,
or the name it was called, thanks.
I have two grape "trees" in containers that were given to me,
they look exactly like the ones in your photos,
not sure of the variety, one is red other is green, seeded.

I wanted to create some more of these,
but was unsure of what varieties to use.

Can you suggest some varieties for me to use
that have the proper growth habit.
Will grow some in containers and others in the ground.

My use is for consumption, not wine making,
high flavor, seed or seeded is fine.
Really want to grow for flavor.

What do you suggest.

Hungryjack, there are videos on You Tube about Head Trained vines.  Do a search for head trained pruning, and you will be amazed.  Any variety can be head trained, and you can train them as high as you wish.  Some prefer lower trees, and some higher!  I have many in containers, but they will be going in-ground once we get control of those pests!!

Table grapes for eating.  Hmmmmmmmmm.  We grow wine grapes only.  I do have one table grape.  Perlette, but only because it's sweet enough to make wine from.  We live in two different climates, and it would be really hard for me to tell you what grapes do well in your climate, but if you have time, you can spend hours at The National Grapevine Registry, and by clicking on a name it will tell you if it is a wine or table grape.  I love doing research there because it tells you where the vine originated, and if it's from a colder climate area, you will know it will do well for you also.  It also tells you where you can purchase the grape.

Good luck and thanks for all the gopher control tips!

Suzi

Suzi thanks for posting that site . We have talked about growing "eating grapes" here (FL) as part of our edible landscaping plan . Looks like that site has a huge amount of info.
 
Been really busy here planning and revamping (taking out unwanted growth) sections of our property . Our home is on 3/4 of an acre , and we want to make sure everything is planned for the best use of space.
  All of my cuttings (about 30) from this fall and later have rooted and been repotted , with about 12 more cuttings coming along, albeit slowly.
Also been painting the interior of the house. Waiting on estimates for the larger rooms with 30ft ceilings! Neither one of us want to try and tackle that. The other rooms and halls are no problem though.
Plus preparing to host a baby shower for our daughter in law and the upcoming birth our our 4th grandson !

Sorry to have hijacked the posting here.

Thanks again Suzi and keep us posted as to all your work on your newest property aquisition - love to see it all as you do it !

I only defend the mole not the rest of the critters that are very destructive. I am fortunate to only have moles. You can't really count our "Gopher" which is also a tortoise and endangered. We do have grey squirrels AKA tree rats that eat all your produce but there is an easy solution to that. Fried squirrel and squirrel stew! I completely support everyone’s right to defend their fruits.

I'm not a nut who thinks every thing should be relocated.

My apologies to those who do.

The grape head trained pruning was unique. I wonder if that would work with our Southern Muscadines. Mine are about five to six foot tall and I will be installing and training them to a T trellis this year. The trellis will run down the center of my citrus rows and be at about seven feet tall. At that height it should give me quite a few years before the citrus and muscadines all blend together! LOL

[QUOTE=Darkman]

Not too many grapes that can be grown in Florida. Pierce disease prevents that. They are working on hybridizing the various true grapes and muscadines that are resistant to the disease. Maybe in ten years they will have a marketable plant ready for trials.[/QUOTE]

Well thanks Charles that answers my question ! I've not tried muscadine grapes , but see them all over  in nurseries. Are they good eating or not worth the trouble?

Thanks for posting the link to the grape registry, helpful.

[QUOTE=Pattee]I've not tried muscadine grapes , but see them all over  in nurseries. Are they good eating or not worth the trouble?[/QUOTE]

That's a tough question! To me muscadines are almost a different fruit. There are similarities but muscadines are, how can I say this, not very dignified. Most people find the hull (skin) to tough to chew and will have to remove (spit) them from their mouth.

And then there are the seeds, sometimes fifty percent of the volume of the muscadine that you also probably will not eat and must be removed from your mouth. I've seen small children resemble a machine gun ejecting them in high velocity burst.

Now then there is the pulp a squishy viscous glob they may have what resembles and feels like a small worm but it's not so don't worry.

What's left is a very defined taste that southerners love. It's rich, full and musky.

Many of these traits are not a bother. It just depends on the individual. I even know people that eat everything seeds and all. There are ongoing programs to develop the perfect muscadine. They now have large (think golf ball), thin edible skins and nearly seedless ones. You can grow for fresh eating, juicing and even wine making just like there cousins the grape. They even come in whites, reds, purples and blacks. There is a good future in the muscadines for sure.

My best advice is to find a U-Pick muscadine vineyard and call them up explaining that you would like to wander around taking notes and sampling them. I've done this and I of course paid a fair price to them and even picked several containers to take home too. I labeled ziplock bags picked a good representation and then moved to the next variety.

My wife and I had a wonderfull afternoon and then enjoyed several nights evaluating them. The owners even walked around with us a gave us their opinions and advice on growing them. I now have three ninety foot rows with about twelve varietys. My vineyard is small and young. I'll get a few fruit this year and many more in the years to come.

Having said all that, you can grow grapes here with a lot of work. They'll require a lot of spraying and pest management. I do not think the results would be worth it. The muscadine is native and requires very little care once they are established.

Oh, they are definetly worth it.

If I had a choice, I would rather eat muscadines as the flavor is better than grapes IMO. Like figs,if you don't allow them to get fully ripe,their taste can be bland like an almost ripe fig. These are some smaller size wild muscadines from a large old vine in my backyard.

Just a comment about the original subject....I would NOT use charcoal or anything else that could cause a fire.
Far too many wildfires have been started from such activities.

I agree with not using charcoal for sure!  There is a lot of dry, dead growth on our property from years of neglect, and I would not wish to be responsible for starting a fire!  I do like the dry ice method for sure!  We walked the property, and the holes are too many to count.  I'm thinking we should map the property in a grid, and systematically attack.  If we can cover it all in a month, then do the same thing the next, and the next until we get rid of the pests and then maybe every 3 months. 

I know people in my wine making forum do make muscadine wine, but they make wine from green tomatoes too!  LOL!  They make wine from most fruit and juice concentrates, but unlike grapes, they mainly have to add water, sugar and often raisins for body.

It is very true that humidity is hard on grapes.  They like dry air, and will get powdery mildew if not sprayed with neem oil or something similar.  Where we currently live, it's hot and windy, but because they water the golf course so much, the wind carries that moisture to the vines, and we have to spray for the powdery mildew too!  This won't happen on the new property.  Our big issue is those burrowing pests.

Thanks so much for all the great advice in this thread!
Suzi

How do commercial vineyards deal with critters?

I know there are many small vineyards in the mid south that must deal with this.

Not saying that any of this is a good idea, because the ones from next door would probably just move in in a couple days, but...

I'm not sure about the dry ice idea.  "Dry ice" is carbon dioxide, not carbon monoxide.  There is a big difference.  Carbon dioxide is not poisonous.  You can breath it with no ill effects.  Now, if the air is 100% carbon dioxide, then you will choke off the oxygen supply.  However, there are two problems with this.  First, it's not a sealed system, so you're not going to be able to make the air in a gopher tunnel 100% CO2.  Second, even if you could, the rodents would notice the lack of oxygen and would go running for the exit.  The carbon monoxide way at least has a chance of working, if you can deliver it in strong enough, extended enough dose.  Although they would probably notice this too, if it came from a very hot, smelly vehicle exhaust.  Most animals' sense of smell is much better than ours.

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7433.html

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/QT/gopherscard.html

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74115.html

Great links!  Thanks!
Suzi