I had to take a break from the Apple tech guy after 3 1/2 hours of tedious BS trying to hunt down a number of glitches caused by an OS 10.8.3 up grade. These appeared as a result of my being convinced this upgrade would solve the problems. Wrong -- now my laptop is like a piece of bacon in a campfire. It looks great and the sizzle's still there but I can't get it from where it is to where I want it to be without help. Be it a pointy stick or a geek who knows his stuff -- at this point I have neither.

So I wiped the small drop of blood running from my ear down to the point where it met the one running from the exploding capillaries in my sinuses and decided it was time to hang up the phone and take a break. I decided to water my figs. Apple's engineers probably needed a break from me as well. They were perplexed and as frustrated as I was -- almost. It wasn't their data and records that seem to have vanished into the ether.

As soon as I walked out the back door I noticed large insects chris-crossing my lawn.
Cicadas! There were only half a dozen on my trees -- hardly enough for a proper meal so I let them be. 

This weekend will be different, however, and dozens will find their way into the WOK provided I can figure out where my cleaning ladies hid it. Hot sesame oil, garlic, anise and  celery will round out the flavor. I still have my black wild rice (actually grass seed) I've been saving for this meal and my mood has gone from dark and stressed out to almost down right glee.

Cicadas aren't as addictive as ripe figs but they sure are a rare treat. I'm sure within the week I'll feel like yelling out the window for them to shut up, but until then bon appetite.

mgginva,
My experience with the Apple support is VERY negative, they treat you as a complete dumb a** assuming your education is 2nd grade at most. Any deeper questions I had just were hitting the wall.
And I was talking to the live people at an Apple store, the infamous Genius Bar. For now, I treat the Apple OS as a broken Linux. It works for what it was designed for and it's good enough. 
I think in 3 1/2 hours you could find a solution on the internet just Googling for it.

I'll be looking forward to pictures of that dish!

If you get to a senior tech on the phone you will eventually get things either fixed or replaced. I think the lower level folks have lost a step but Apple still supports it's stuff really well. I've never talked to a "Genius" at one of their stores. I think the new OS is nothing great but I'm on my 28th Apple and I've had pretty good experiences up until the last few years. But they've replaced my last 2 laptops for free and I'd still rather have an Apple then anything else. But to be really honest I'd be happy living down at the end of a very long road with no phone, no internet and no cell coverage. If someone wants to talk to me they can right a letter. Yep -- a tad burned out these days.
As far as finding the problem on google -- not this time. My laptop is doing some really really odd stuff. I'm waiting for their upper level engineers now as I'm climbing up the "tech ladder".

Andy,
I've posted this before - this is from 17 years ago.

It is quite fun watching the ducks chase them across the yard, they make a good crunch when caught.  

I can't believe that you were serious about eating those.   If you want any earwigs, pill bugs, cockroaches, or stink bugs, I will send you some as a side dish.  

I'll add the fire ants for an appetizer!

Here you go:
http://shine.yahoo.com/shine-food/chef-puts-cicadas-menu-yes-8217-bug-soup-183700433.html

with some cicada recipes!

Folks,
Thanks for the offers but not all insects are good eating. 

Because cicadas emerge only to mate and only sip a bit of sap - they don't eat anything - they are very clean. 

As far as other decent bug food --meal worms, crickets, grasshoppers (not my favorite), scorpions (these are very good) and some grubs are all ok, but the cicadas - especially if you get them right after they shed their skin (and taste like really good fresh sweet corn) - are the best. 

The US is one of the few societies that doesn't eat bugs -- well except lobster, crab, shrimp, etc. which are just big ocean bugs.

Your children will eat bugs as they will end up being one of the few affordable sources of healthy proteins in the future. 

As we breed ourselves into a state where food will get to be more and more expensive the lowly insect will be one of the few sources of protein the non rich will be able to afford.

And as far as yukky to eat. I'd sure rather eat a bug then boiled okra. 

And if you truly knew what was in processed foods - like for example - processed human hair and duck feathers in breads and other baked goods (like hamburger buns - especially stuff from China - you'd be far more open to a good clean all natural cicada.

And if you eat red candy, eat tinted yogurt or drink red juices, etc. you are already probably eating crushed african beetle abdomens. And if the candy has a shiny coating it's probably shellac - another insect product.

Or how about that hamburger you had for lunch made out of ground beef from a thousand different cows that contains hormones and feces and multiple toxins including veterinary medicines, heavy metals, antibiotics and flesh eating bacteria - and that meat was washed in ammonia?

Or how about the cheese made with cloned, genetically modified rennet -- mucosa from a calf's 4th stomach?

Or the milk shake full of hormones out lawed just about everywhere but the US that'l give you prostate, breast or colon cancer? And - oh yea - it probably also has beaver anal gland secretions and urine in it as well.

And you all think an organic, free range, all natural insect like a cicada's gross? Not this fat white boy.

And just one last thing -- the cicadas are FREE.

So you prefer to eat a cicada......that lived it's entire life in the ground feeding on plant roots next to a sewer leach field or drenched in who knows what chemicals by homeowners treating their lawn or in the soil of a superfund site?   Point is you do not know where that bug came from or the conditions it grew up under.  You are taking just as big a risk as they guy eating the hamburger.   Even if you are collecting the bugs from your own yard you don't know what chemical a previous owner dumped on the ground or where the fill came from when the house was built.    I for one would have no trouble trying the cicada though......the repulsion some feel is just in their heads.  It would be the same feeling a hindu would have about us eating beef.   

Personally I let the chickens and ducks eat the bugs then I eat them:)  Or their eggs.  

W,
You draw an awful lot of conclusions.

The cicadas in that picture were collected on a friend''s farm. It is located in the national forest and is an organic asparagus farm. He is an entomologist at Va Tech and his wife is a soil scientist. We took great care to assure that our dinner was toxin free.

The soil on the 3 acres I live on was brought here by 600 dump trucks 13 years ago and I know exactly where it came from and it was pretty thoroughly  tested before I paid for it. In some areas of this property I added 16 feet of top soil -- all clean and all tested.

At my house the septic field does not leach toxins as I don't flush them down the toilet. Neither did the person who lived here before me or the one who lived here before that. The neighborhood I live in practices strict controls on any poisons. All things sprayed in the common areas -- the woods and along our roads are subject to approval by myself and any other resident that has a voice.

Before moving here I lived on an organic farm and before that I lived on another organic farm. 

There aren't any superfund sites near my home. I'm sure some of the cicadas I'm exposed to may have been on nearby properties where roundup or Sevin's been sprayed but I'm not sure how easily either of those substances enter into a subterranean insect feeding on tree roots.

I think you're very wrong in your opinion of what I'm exposing myself to when harvesting the cicadas I eat, but you're welcome to your opinion.

I'm off now to visit some friends who live 200 miles away and as their farm is quite remote and inside the national forest and organic as well, I think I'll be able to find safe bugs to eat. As far as eating the ones in my yard - I'm sure they are far cleaner then the cattle and sheep in the fields nearby.

Michael,

I drew no more conclusions about the food you are eating than you did about the food a nation full of people are eating.  

My point is you have no idea what chemicals are in the bugs you are consuming unless the bugs were tested.  You are making assumptions they are clean and chemical free while stating all other foods are poison    How could you possibly know what previous owners of your property did or did not put down the toilet?  If they ever ate or had a guest that ate food and used the facilities.well guess where those "toxins" are?    I'm sure a bit of soil from some of the trucks of fill might have been tested but not all the soil so you have no idea what is in the soil.   What if the grandparents of those organic rural asparagus farm cicada fed in a Monsanto GMO cornfield!!!  You are doomed, doomed.    

It is funny though how you can attack and look down your nose at those eating beef or other non organic foods but when it is pointed out you have no idea what is in the bugs you are eating you get a tad defensive..... but in any event don't take it too personally just having a conversation.

Mgginva: I was just joking.  Kudos to you for eating them and using organic methods.   

We don't have them yet but there's big front page article in today Bergen Record

"likely between May 18 and 24, when the soil reaches the magic temperature of 64 degrees"

http://www.northjersey.com/news/Cicada.html

W,
Once again you are drawing conclusions that aren't supported.

Did I say they were clean (see below) or that all other foods are not. Of all the foods in the world how many did I discuss?

I have spent a lot of energy including 5 years of college studying animal production, biology and poultry science.

W, again you just jump to conclusions. I know because this house was originally my mother's home - then my brother's.

Where would this Monsanto GMO field have been. You obviously have never lived in the country surrounded by educated people - a rare but wonderful side effect of the Va Tech experience is a lot of students stay around. Everyone knows everyone else's business. If you bother to check you can get detailed soils maps of Va and find out any place that's been disturbed.

We'd never allow Monsanto to move into the area.

Look as I don't feel like bouncing this back and forth all night so here are a few simple facts;
If the cicadas are exposed to toxins they won't even emerge as they are fairly fragile. Your super fund site cicada just does not exist.
Think about it. If the things are exposed to toxins - they will die. To emerge they need to be healthy - not exposed to poisons. 

On the other hand if you study our food in the US you'll find a terrible record of abuse and very unhealthy practices. A lot of what we do in the US is out lawed in Europe, for example.

I'm not even going to answer the tiny amount of dirt w/ toxins stuff as it's obvious you aren't being serious or have zero understanding of what a toxin or chemical load is and what it means.

And you obviously know nothing about Va's policy of testing dirt. They will, for example test -for free - 16 samples of my fig dirt any time I ask. For larger projects they will do much more and the soil scientist I hired is someone I trust to know his business.

Just exactly how far do you think cicadas travel?

And again you draw conclusions. I eat beef. I buy grass fed beef by the 1/4 every year. I was just pointing out a few facts that folks should have to read every day before they feed their kids ground beef from Safeway, etc.

I'm not taking it too personally I'm just frustrated as you seem to read into my post what you want to read - not what I said. We have words as they have specific meanings.
Ahhh----------
Hopefully I don't sound too harsh. It's been a bad day. Instead of a lovely day in pristine woods some jerk from New Jersey in a Lincoln Navigator ran me off rt 81 at 85mph right into the medium. I was really lucky as the car probably decelerated to 35 before I was pushed off the shoulder, but I love this car and have had it for a very long time (Jag XJR - 1996 with only 80k miles). Now it's barely made it home and probably isn't worth fixing according to the insurance Co. -- and replacing it will not be easy   ---arrgghh - sorry - I'm venting.
I hate car accidents and I'm grumpy as hell so forgive me if I'm not being nice - I don't mean to be.

Look if you are really serious about discussing toxins and cicadas and our food production - I'd be happy to chat with you on the phone --- this typing takes too much time. But if you just want to learn a bit about good food practices and healthy farming look up Polyface farm in Va. There's a ton to be learned. And these guys are the best.

Sorry evry one else -- I'll answer tomorrow. I'm going to eat a bunch of aspirin and have a big drink and go to bed. Whine whine whine

agh - I'm back
so

greenfig my Apple support issues may be mute as I had my lap top open on the passenger seat playing a book --A Confederacy of Dunces --- great book -- when I got run off the road and it hit the dash pretty damn hard. I can't get it to boot up. Having to use my company computer.
Just a bad day.

KK - if you need a recipe let me know. I'm going to try batter fried as soon as they arrive here. My safari was a failure. 
All those from the northern states please cover your ears.
GD yankees! Always driving through and causing trouble on their way to Disneyland.
Ok I feel better now.

Michael,

I was poking a bit of fun at you...you really were not supposed to take the ribbing that seriously or get so upset you had to write that diatribe.   The fact remains you have no idea what toxins are in the bugs.  If you have a link to a university study that states cicada larvae are killed by even a tiny amount of any and every toxin I would love to read it.  Larvae of many insects are actually very tough.....for example Black soldier fly larvae can survive many minutes at the bottom of a glass full of rubbing alcohol.  

Far as farming I know enough:)  Grew up on a farm, a working dairy.  Have had animals my entire life.  I still raise rabbits 8 does and 2 bucks, ducks 21 and chickens 18 and until recently quail.   

Tuesday I was at a commercial blueberry farm a friend owns and watched as the migrants were putting the certified organic blueberries in the clamshells.  Right outside the door of the packing shed was a 55 gallon barrel of glyphosphate they spray on the weeds and several drums of 93% sulfuric acid they add to the irrigation water to neutralize the bicarbonates in our water.  As I am sure you know neither of those items are allowed in certified organic production......the certified organic label is a joke, a trick to get people to pay twice the price.   

Sorry about your car.....your unsuccessful bug hunt and your computer.......

W,
Believe me I'm not upset - just disappointed in you to be honest. You really should try and stick with the facts. You exaggerate things to an absurd level to try and make your point rather then do your homework and stay within what is actually said. This thread was started by me pretty tongue in cheek. That you again draw another conclusion just does seem to be your MO.

I've read some of your posts and you seem to be a good guy.
I just think you are mentally lazy. Why didn't you post a link about your beetles and your claim about how tough they are?

Why don't YOU take a look online and read about cicadas and toxins?  I'd think as you're in a discussion about them that you'd actually try and learn something about them. 
You seem far more interested in trying to look intelligent then in learning about the subject being discussed.

I called Va Tech today and spoke with an entomologist just to make sure I was not bending the facts. I am very good about my fact checking -- something you need to improve. I've been online making sure I'm not misrepresenting the truth. I think discussions that may effect other's choices are important and should be accurate. 

It's sad your friends are so dishonest. Mine aren't. Perhaps that explains your need to manufacture exaggerated "facts'. Maybe there's a part of you that resents folks that practice more sensible farming methods because the ones you call friends are not exactly good examples - in fairness you only mentioned one. That you stand by while your buddy is so cavalier about other folks health, very possibly playing Russian Roulette with the lives of others is sad and you should rethink your ethics on this issue.

You are part of the problem as you preach a very ignorant message that you seem to think isn't harmful -- yet it is. What if you convince just one idiot parent that your views are valid and their kid gets cancer. Do you care? Now you're claiming you were just ribbing me and I took it "too" seriously. . . -- come on that's just such a cheap tactic and not a believable one.  I can say the same about you if I felt the need to deflect the fact my argument isn't panning out. Cheap shot.

 Your belief you know enough is so telling. A true farmer recognizes things change constantly and there is never a time when a real farmer "knows enough".

I'm happy you have a few critters to enjoy.  A few yard birds and bunnies, however, isn't farming.

I do appreciate your comments about my beloved car and laptop - thank you. I hope to go on another bug hunt soon. Too bad you are so far away. A couple beers and some nice breaded cicadas and perhaps you'd see the light. Perhaps I'd be able to convince you to rethink how words are powerful and misrepresenting the truth can harm others. Maybe I could get you to tour Polyface farm and you could see what farming should be like. Maybe after that you might realize that your absurd diatribe could actually harm someone and just because your buddy doesn't care if he hurts folks you still can.

There was a very interesting and fascinating Science Friday program (today) about eating insects.   The link is here http://sciencefriday.com/blogs/05/16/2013/don-t-forget-to-eat-your-creepy-crawlies.html

Enjoy - 

Ingevald

thx B - there's a definite trend to try and get folks more used to insects as food as they very well may be our protein of the future.
Almost got killed today. Sure hope I don't wake up with any injuries I don't feel yet.
Hot out your way?
mgg

Hi Michael,

I don't know why I've been reading anything about eating bugs because they are full of squishy bug guts and I can't even bring myself to step on one.  If I accidentally do so, they crunch.  Agh!  But, Michael, if I had to eat a bug, I'd sure want you to be around to season and cook it.  Now I need to not read any more about eating bugs because I just can't handle it.

I do like waterbugs, though---Crawfish, crabs, lobsters, shrimp---

I'm so sorry you got into a wreck, Michael, and hope you bounce back quickly.  Sorry about your car--I know how it is to be really attached to a vehicle, like you become part of it, or it, you when you climb into it.  I still miss my minivan, even if it was a "tame" kind of vehicle.


Maybe some chocolate-covered cicadas would cheer you up.  Bon apetit!  ;D

noss

Noss,
Thank you. I just woke up and I'm really feeling stiff but otherwise I seem to be fine. I just hope my car can be saved.

I know that eating insects seems disgusting and it took me quite a while to learn to over come my cultural conditioning. In 1981 I had a little farm ands a guy who worked for me used to eat fried grass hoppers. I thought that was disgusting and wouldn't even try one. Eventually though I got used to the idea. I used to live with a woman who was an entomologist - was a good match at the time because I used to collect spiders - and she loved this eatery called the Insect Cafe in Washington, DC. They served a number of dishes made from crickets and meal worms. Eventually out of affection for my sig other I tried the menu and it was pretty good.

The fact is that in the future bugs may turn out to be the only protein we'll be able to afford. It is amazing how much more protein can be raised on a farm by producing insects rather then cattle.

I've done a lot of traveling and in many parts of he world insects are valued as food. I can't eat a lot of the foods that other cultures value -- like fermented duck eggs with fully formed chicks in them or any part of a monkey -- or brains, tripe , stomach, etc. and although there's probably nothing wrong with these, just looking at them awakens my gag reflex.

So, I completely understand your reluctance. 

I' m not a fan of chocolate but I bet someone out there is having a great snack eating chocolate covered cicadas.

I have 2 questions--

one-can you grill these guys since they you got them on a mini stick skewer? how do you like to cook them best? flame grill or pan fry...??

two-how many people are gonna be netting for cicada damage?

Pooya,
You can grill but you need to be careful as they don't stay on the skewers easily once they've been cooked.
I just put those in the pic on skewers as a presentation thing. Those were pan fried in dark sesame oil and anise with garlic.

I'm going to try breading my next batch.
You can grill everything. They are great grilled with those small red bananas we're seeing in the stores lately. After grilling rap in sushi ginger and serve with grilled red bananas and spicy brown rice and Thai beer.
Or slice lamb very thin and rap the cicadas in the lamb slices (if you over cook for even a second this dish will fail) and serve with jellied figs.
Or grill on skewer with long thin chicken slices and serve with a peanut sesame oil sauce.

I don't understand question #2, If you are asking if your figs need protection that was covered in an earlier post and the consensus was you don't need to worry about your trees. If that's not what you're asking - please clarify.

cu
mgg

Ah, I finally got you to do your home work. Good job.
If I upset you I apologize but hey I was just ribbing you and didn't mean to upset you and cause you to post such a diatribe.

i applaud you for your charity in giving away food. I gave away 75 fig trees last year and think charity is a very important part of life. I knew from your past posts you were a good guy.

I do hope you realize with liability laws the way they are no one is going to tell you anything is safe. Consulting your doctor first is the advise given for virtually anything.

Again you draw a wrong conclusion -- what you quote does not counter my posting about toxins. I never stated cicadas were hyper sensitive to toxins -- again you draw wrong conclusions to try and prove your point.

Ok so black fly larvae die when exposed to alcohol. It takes them 2 hours. What about being exposed for 17 years? I am very happy to see you include a link. It really has no bearing on cicadas but . . . 

I never doubted your ability to prove what you say. Just waiting for you to actually join the discussion and do your homework.

If you see a crime being committed and do nothing about it are you responsible if anyone one gets hurt or dies from that crime? I believe you are. You obviously disagree and that is your right.

If I insulted you I apologize and would be very happy to delete any part of my post you feel insults you. It was not my intension. My writing style has been criticized on this forum before and the editor I'm working with says it's "harsh and unforgiving." I'd be the first to admit that although I try to be diplomatic I'm just not very good at it. My senior thesis was called "true but brutal - truth but ripped from polite society." Perhaps you'll see this as an excuse, but I don't mean it that way. I truly did not mean to hurt your feelings and if I did I will do my best to fix that mistake. Just let me know. I'm not saying I'll back off on my opinion on cicadas - but I will try and fix anything you find personally objectionable -- within reason, of course.

I did by the way start a new thread as this one is getting off topic and personal. The new thread is about those concerns I have found about eating cicadas.

I hope you have a good weekend. Raining like crazy here.

Michael,

No, they do not die when exposed to alcohol they die after two hours of being submerged in rubbing alcohol......trying to minimize that the way you are is silly and you know it:)   

Your criticism of me for not posting links to prove what I say is a bit odd as you posted no links AND STILL HAVE NOT just stated so and so told me blah....which I would add turned out to be false.  

Fine.....if anyone dies from eating the organic blueberries that are not organic I will be sure to come forth.   By the way you are again wrong.....because common law recognizes no requirement to report a crime unless you live in a duty to report state but they are rare....Colorado is one for example but Florida has no such law and almost all the states do not have that law.   Some classes are required to report certain crimes....such as say Doctors and first responders.  

I appreciate the apology, was big of you.  

If you believe your responsibility is only dictated by some law maker in your state legislature I'm just baffled by you.
I'd think your own personal ethics would be what dictates your behavior.

As far as your beetle is concerned I'm more then happy to concede you are correct -- I did not read the link, I just scanned it as I have 8 conversations going on right now. So I am happy to give you that one.

I have to ask you to clarify your second sentence as I don't understand your point.

My apology was heart felt and I do hope there are no hard feelings -- we are after all just debating and messing around. No need to hurt anyone. I am glad you seem to have a good heart and sense of humor. Sometimes in discussions like this folks get really angry about perceived slights and they get just too mad to deal with.

I'm also curious, btw, with what else you are growing. I used to have a couple nice orchards. One was about 150 heirloom fruit trees and the other was 1100 hazelnut trees inoculated with the perigord truffle fungus. I wish I had the place to plant stuff. But I am collecting in pots until I can buy my next farm. I hope to have the figs I want for my next orchard in pots and 5 to 7 years old when I'm ready. I'm about half way there at this point.

Ok back to arguing -- yup I should post links. You got me on that one -- but I did post enough info for you to find stuff to argue about -- like mercury.

If anyone grew blueberries around here and kept toxins like your buddy -- we'd find a way to "educate" him.

[QUOTE=mgginva]KK - if you need a recipe let me know. [/QUOTE]

I’ll take a pass on that, but thanks. Reminds me of when I was in grammar school, must have been  6^th or 7^th grade. There was this specialty store on Park Ave sold all kinds of foodstuff from all over the world. I spotted an assortment of chocolate covered bugs. Bees, ants and a few others, which I can’t remember. You really couldn’t tell by looking, just a chocolate cube. I bought a box and handed them out to some of the girls in the schoolyard during lunch hour. When they found out I thought they were going to neuter me. Truth is I wasn’t man enough to eat one.

KK you crack me up.

Michael,

I don't see selling non organic produce as organic rising to the level that would make me get involved.  I assure you if he starts kicking puppies, stealing old ladies purses or poisoning Gothams water supply I will have a word with him:)  According to him all the Florida commercial blueberry producers cheat........no idea if that is true but my bet is a lot do cheat as I have seen quite a few of their fields and there is no way with our hard lime rich water to get the plants they do without using the acid.  


You asked.....but here is the list of what I grow.  The fig portion is not up to date as I have 63 varieties going at the moment but half are still in the cup or 1 gallon stage but I think 30 or so are in ground.  I am in Florida so it is light on orchard trees as not many grow here.  Blueberry season is just ending.picked 500 pounds or so.  Black mulberry season just ended and the Mysore Raspberries will get the first picking today.  Blackberries will start in two weeks I would guess as they are turning red now.  The peaches and plums should also be ready in the next two weeks. 

W, 
That's impressive. I love the muscadine list. We could probably trade some figs. I've got 197 varieties as of yesterday but I see a few I don't have.
I used to collect contorted trees and my favorites were the mulberries.
You've got a bunch of stuff I couldn't grow here but it seems you have a really interesting collection.
500 pounds is a lot for a home patch. Impressive.
I just got my first couple pons in a trade. Not sure about them yet.
mgg

The poms got me a good start on the fig collection with a trade with Dom and John.  I am more than happy to trade this fall/winter, can send the full list privately and each fig has the source where I got it.  

We had a large market garden on the farm where I grew up and that made me interested in the fruiting plants so have always grown them.  

The 500 pounds is decent but eventually as the plants grow I should double that.  I have added new BB plants yearly as I have had the time to create new rows and the last of them will go in this winter and the rabbiteye are all coming out..just don't get enough chill hours on them for a decent fruit set.  

One of my favorite things to do is pick BB's and make Jam, -- both with and without sugar. As a matter of fact my last jar left with my mom last time she came up (6 months ago) from SC.
My mailman at my last farm grew the nicest BB's and charged almost nothing at his pick your own farm.
My last planting was honeyberries but my relationship with my farm partner (read girlfriend) crapped out so here I am 200 miles away. I never got to try them.
I just bought some dwarf cherries. Many years ago (1981) I had a little farm and there were the blackest cherry trees I've ever seen. Unfortunately they didn't set cherries every year, but the years they did they were the best I've ever had. I think the next time I'm down that way i'll ask for some wood to graft.
Ok, in the fall let's do some trades.
mgg

Michael,

Sweetcherries and Concord grapes are the two things I miss most about NW PA...well and maybe the steelhead fishing but the grouper and cobia here more than make up for that.  Sadly can't grow concords here but Nesbitt tastes almost identical.  There is no replacement for the cherries though that suit me.  

Do you have snook? Cobia sure are tasty. I've never had a steelhead. I went all the way to Belize once for 5 days of snook fishing. Was excellent.
You have a real catch 22 there as your temps allow you to grow great things but without the chill hours stuff like cheeries and stone fruits aren't possible.
Tough trade off.

Too cold for mangos but too warm for cherries.  The citrus are nice.   Not only is it the lack of chill it is the hot humid rainy summer......fungal diseases would go nuts.

We do have snook here and the further south you go the better it gets.  Sixty miles to my south in Tampa bay there are a ton of them.  I like cobia, have caught them to 80 pounds.  The gag and red grouper here are king though as far as eating quality.  The water here is very shallow so even say 13 miles out you are still only in 15 feet of water so the fishing here is incredibly good......it is why I chose this area to retire to.  

Wow does sound really nice. 80 pound cobia! Wow -- packing my car, yuk yuk. Too bad it just clunks and the wheel wobbles.

We get really hot humid summers here and grapes must be sprayed. It is really bad. The president of the Va grape growers used to try and talk me into grapes every year as I had a perfect 80+ acres for grapes in Va. But the thing was the profit was 2k per acre and it was heavily reliant on fungicides. Considering I already had 1100 trees I was growing for the fungus that they were inoculated with, it didn't seem a real smart thing to do. But every year he'd start his campaign anyway.

I've never had a lot of success with grapes - except concords, but I do like what I'm reading about some of the new varieties - but a lot of them are unavailable as they aren't for sale -- like witches fingers, for ex.

I've never fished the area where you live -- sort of guessing as I'm not 100% sure -- but I've fished all over the world. I'd love a shot at a big cobia. My last fishing spot was the lakes on the northern island of New Zealand as they claim to have the largest rainbow trout in the world. They do seem to and it was great. While I was there I also caught 100+ red snappers in Aukland harbor (it was enough to feed the folks on our ship a couple times) and the next day caught some trevally We were in a 22 foot boat and got hassled by a big bull killer whale. He gave us a couple bumps and soaked us with spray a few times. Scared the crap out of my guide. It was one of my top 5 days. The diving birds there are very accomplished thieves and until you feed them most of your bait fish they'll just take everything you hook.

Michael,

To be more exact I am in Citrus county.  

The grapes have only been in two years.  I did not let them fruit the first year.  The muscadines grow FAST......they made it to the wire and filled the 20 foot row in the first season.  This year I let them bloom and they are all loaded....some are just flowering now though one already has grapes bigger than marbles.  That one is on a fence and I can't remember what variety it is:)  The ones in the rows are all marked.  I will have to wait till the fruit ripens to ID it.   As you know we are prevented from growing a lot of varieties of bunch grapes due to Pierces disease. 

The cobia get well over 100 pounds and grow incredibly fast.  They have to be 40" to the fork of the tail just to be legal to keep. 

Cobia and barramundi are supposed to be the next "hot' fish farm fish. Have you ever been to www.iga.org/fish/fish-database.aspx ?
It's worth a look.

Here we always give the Muscadines rows twice as big as the other grapes as they are so hardy.

Did you mean the IGFA?   If so was just looking now. 

I had set the row width wide enough to do the geneva double curtain but in the end went with the single wire but I suppose I could always change it later if I wanted to.....would lose a years production though.  

oops yes that's what I meant. sorry I belong to DAM which is Mothers Against  Dyslexia.

lol:)  

Wills,

I hope it's all right if I join in with your conversation about fruits.

Can you tell me what the name is of the muscadine whose skin is very thin and you can eat it without problems?  I've been trying to find that out for a couple of years now.

I have a little Concord vine I got and it's in its third year.  I just learned about Pierce's disease last year and feel so sad that my vine will die from it.  Is it just that it's in the South, or is this disease all over the country?  I love CGs better than any other grape in the world.  I'm still trying to figure out why a nursery would sell something that gets this disease, or is even not something that is supposed to grow down this far South.

The first season I bought the vine, it had three tiny bunches of grapes and I didn't know to pick them off.  They ripened early and were very good.  Last year, the vine had several more bunches and they were good, too.  I think they ripened in Jun, or July.

This season, there are over 20 little bunches on the vine.

What does Pierce's disease do to the vine to kill it and when will it kill this vine?

Thanks,

noss

Noss,

Of course you can join in :)  

Do you know what color the skin is of the grape you are trying to ID?  Some muscadines have thinner skin than others so would help to narrow it down.  I am far from an expert on grapes but would be happy to help you figure out what the variety is.  

I don't know why stores sell concords down here..they sell raspberries, blackberries and blueberry types that won't grow here either.  

Your Concord could last years, or it could never get Pierces disease (unlikely) you just never know.  Pierces disease is just a southern thing,  starts roughly in South Carolina and the further south you go the worse it gets.  The wild muscadine harbor it but it does not hurt them.  Generally once the plant gets pierces they decline over a couple of years.   It sounds like your vine is free of it so far since it is producing.   If you want a grape that tastes EXACTLY like a concord get Nesbitt....it is bigger than the concord but tastes the same.   When I was visiting Just fruits&Exotics in the panhandle the owner was telling me about a customer that had northern grapes and they grew great and every time in would tell her how wonderful they were doing despite her warning about Pierces.  He went 7 years Pierce free until one year it came in and he lost all his vines.   

WillsC do you sell your fruit?  I'd love to try some plant ripened ice cream bananas and would be happy to pay for them.

When you say too cold for mangoes is it your winter lows that's too cold?  I'm thinking of getting a condo mango and bringing it in my grow room for the winter.  Citrus do fine there.

Rcantor,

We only get 2-5 days a year on average of freezing weather.  I am on a lake which helps my temps as the lake borders my property to the north but not enough to eliminate the freezes.  Of course that is 2-5 freezing days too many for mangoes.   I could grow a potted one I know I just hate having to protect things.  Have the same problem with the Ice cream bananas.  They grow great and fruit but if they fruit too late in the summer they don't have enough time to ripen the fruit.  On the plus side even if the bananas are half grown when the freeze comes you can cut the bunch and gas them in a bag with apples to get them to ripen and they are very good.  Far as selling fruit I don't but i'm sure we could work something out with a fig cutting trade?