Wills and Ampersand are no longer here. What the heck. No one will miss the others. If your banned for the good that you do and trying to keep the foolishness of others to a minimum, why bother?

Wills banned and ampersand

I am sorry to hear Kelby and Wills are effected, hopefully just a probation.

  I am surprised as I never saw them use vulgar statements or profanity here only confront the ignorance and bad manners of the undesirables. It is always the loser of a discussion that turns to vulgarity and profanity on a public forum, those that don’t have the intellect or self control to express themselves.

Maybe if folks express their thoughts here it will be considered members can be re-established if they desire. Maybe some other good folks would consider participating again in the forum as well that have left.  If you find redeeming qualities of a couple others that I hear were removed as well, support them here if you choose. You will find no support from me personally of at least a couple members re-joining here but that's just my insignificant thoughts.

Overwhelmingly the comunity was united and two stood alone in my oppenion. I tried to avoid them at all cost and then the ones that did try to contribute in meaningful ways were banned. It would be great to show your support here if you choose to. Too many have chose to leave because of a few. I know decisions are tough to make on who to remove but it is necessary at times. Who am I to disagree. I guess the other forums don't look so bad after all.

How can you tell who got banned - through personal communication? Or can you search for that?

I too hope Jon treats Kelby and Wills absence as a suspension (a very short one). It is my opinion that the wheat was tossed out with the chaff in this instance.

regards,
billy

Good question, Arne. I would be VERY disappointed to learn that WillsC and Ampersand had actually been banned.

Look at the members names in the search

It doesn't sound right, I'm missing something, I checked both profiles and everything looks normal. Surely this is a mistake to ban them and  Jon let's someone that makes downright vulgar statements that no member should be subject to, especially children and women. to have full reins of the forum. Oh well, I guess stranger things have happened. I think it's just a mistake, I think Jon is above something like this. This is a good forum.

I add my voice to the growing chorus calling for the un-banning of Wills and Ampersand(Kelby).  

Anybody else was banned?

Jon is the moderator of this site and has the right to ban any member who attacks another publicly.  Against forum rules.  The banning may be temporary, but Jon is like Santa.  He knows who's been good and who has not. 

Let's forget about this now and talk figs please?

Suzi

Yes. The two trouble makers apparently were banned.

I have to agree, Hershell.  WillsC is a great guy and has always been extremely helpful and generous to the forum.  It seems the only mistake he made was standing up to a bully he probably should have just ignored.  I don't understand the moderator's decisions on these issues since it seems he let's the problem remain while banning the members who point out the problem.

Just read that kelby and wills are added back.

[QUOTE=figpig_66]Just read that kelby and wills are added back. [/QUOTE]

How do you guys figure this out??

Was posted on another forum i just checked member list. I didnt see wills. But not good i seaching members. I mosly read post for info

Geeeez - what happened?

If my vote counts I throw it into the camp supporting WillsC and Kelby who are both great guys and positive members of this forum.
These guys are not trouble makers.
Please let them come back.
thx,
mgg

Looking forward to the return of Wills and Kelby.

they are not back... they cant log in!!!
that is so sad.

[QUOTE=drivewayfarmer]Looking forward to the return of Wills and Kelby.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

If the ban on Wills and Kelby hold, it will be a turning point for me on this forum. And others as well.

I acknowledge that Jon V. has the right and responsibility to ban members and delete topics that devolve into vulgarity and name calling, he is the administrator, but continually deleting entire Topics doesn't address the root cause of this argument.

Placing Known cultivar names on unknown or found figs only serves to diminish the Hobby by placing inferior and untried cultivars in circulation as known and true cultivars. Its a good argument with a simple solution, one that Jon V uses in his Varieties Database.

I'm with Frank (FMD)....

BTW, I've read the deleted topic and saved a PDF copy, which is not currently relevant to this discussion.

I never worked with Kelby, but Wills has been great. I would kindly request the ban be removed as well.

ascpete,

Good to see you post. Welcome back. I never have communicated direct with you, but always enjoyed the info you placed out there.  It is obvious that that you put a lot of thought into fig culture. It upset me when it seemed like an undesirable  discouraged you from the forum.

I can not belive that those that stand to confront this AROGANT PUNK Aa... got baned.
This is just not right and I won't be around here for long if this is true. 

Phil (Strudeldog),
Thanks.
I'm not back, as a vacationing forum member I just had to post my support for the banned members. It would be great if we could have constructive discourse without name calling and trolling.

I missed whatever might have been posted last night, but I read a certain contentious thread or two during the day yesterday.  Unless I missed some late posts that totally changed the game, I would say that banning Wills and Kelby (and ONLY Wills and Kelby) was not the move I would have made in this situation.
  An aggressive defense is not the same as an unprovoked attack.  And many of the heated disagreements I've seen over the last few months were based on a sense of protecting/informing folks (noobies or otherwise) from misinformation...i.e. for the good of the forum as a whole.

The thing I always loved about this forum was that it was NOT like other forums.  That has become less and less true as the days go by.


(Pete, good to see you posting again, even if it doesn't last long...)
Jim

For many of the reasons already provided on this thread, I strongly urge Jon to unban, take out of timeout or otherwise reinstate Wills and Kelby to the forum. Conversely, and this comes from a somebody who generally follows a live and let live philosophy, I would not be upset if the other two who were removed are not invited back. One is at the center of, is, in fact, the cause of repeated forum upsets and the other sews discord whenever he sees an opportunity. They, more than any other members, make what was once a warm and inviting environment a much less hospitable place.

As a newbie, I'd like to voice my support for WillsC and Ampersand(Kelby). I have learned not only from their recent posts but their past posts. I have read Kelby's thread on Cold Hardy Figs many times.

I hope it's only a temporary suspension vs a permanent ban.

Kelby and wills are two of the nicest people on here that I've had interactions with. But when pushed I'm sure that they push back. Golden rule folks...

Here's a wakeup call to every member of the forum: if you stand up, even politely, against perceived injustice, your account might be deleted without notice or explanation. So all of us need to be careful how we mix it up here. Kelby was unfailingly polite in his comments, and against severe provocation. Perhaps it was imprudent of him to post a PM, but I for one will miss him. Good to see Pete again.

I have lots of thoughts on this but will just write Jon personally.

I learned to walk away from fights a long time ago because I very well might have killed someone if I didn't because of a bad temper.  Heck, I walked away from a boss 30 years ago and he told me to come back and I told him if I did I was going to take his head off.  I know some folks would have wished I didn't walk away....

NOT  WillsC ,,,,,,,,WILL  is a great guy and has always helped me, he gave my plenty of helpful info .also very  generous  on his cuttings .someone tell me this is a bad dream

Looks like I missed everything. Who else were banned ?
I hope it was a suspension for Wills and Kelby.

Just to clarify as there are multiple Aaron and Rich.   Aaron4USA  RichinNJ   are the accounts as well we believe are effected, and who I reference as undesirables.

HOW BOUT THOSE FIG????????

I don't put up with stupidity and I have always simply ignored people like the Aaron who I believe must have been at fault.  If I didn't understand how forum moderators tend to have other things they need to do, I'd have been surprised at how long Aaron lasted.  A very toxic enthusiasm...

That said, I don't know about Kelby, but WillsC seems to have been a productive commentator.  If the behavior wasn't that bad, I would welcome him back.

That said, there is too much nutbar behavior from people who have dollar signs for eyes.  Or petty pride, which is just as bad, particularly when it's not boasting about the best tree in a neighborhood or technique for some specific need--in a globally connected and hugely complex world.  Figs just aren't very important, and all of us hobbyist and UPick farmers are just here to do something we desire to do.  It should be fun.

I believe Jon waited long enough hoping the clash of egos will end because most members are mature (albeit with  varying sizes of egos).

Many time it started as a reaction to "I, my, me" attitude apparent in some posts then followed by pushback by others who also  ignored the interest of other members that is not to escalate the duels but better dampen it down.

The clashes did not end. So, Jon had to take action. It will be naive to think that it was not expected coming. It could have been expected within +/- an hour or two (literally)!

Jon has life beside the Fig4Fun. Fig4Fun is not for-a-profit organization but in a way a service to the fig hobby community. He can't be expected to monitor minute by minute, and some do appreciate Jon's patient way of dealing with such situation hoping patience will prevail but everything has a limit. Forum has been graciously made available and maintained by Jon for the hobby happiness of all. Jon has avoided rush reactions. He finally felt the limit has been reached and breached and so he acted.

He must have weighed the situation our time and banned the people who in his view acted-or-reacted outside the expected norms and eventually banned them. I believe Jon has earned the privilege to have room when and how to take action. He also has the good of the forum at his heart. Giving him feedback is one thing but putting undue pressure on him can be problematic. What can legally prevent him to switch the F4F off in disgust. We try to login one day and the Forum is not available. Yes, some may not care but many do care and enjoy it and wish to continue in a good atmosphere for all.  Occasional misunderstanding can be cleared in decent ways.

I agree that he ban should not be permanent. A forced first sabbatical for (n to 6 ) months may be expected to serve the purpose. If the undesired  attitude is resumed by the member then longer ban.

It is not the first time that egos clashes happened here. It happened before some years ago. Fortunately, the Forum stayed quiet when some with big egos left but after causing some good members to leave in disgust. Let us hope normalcy returns and stays.

It is just my opinion.

Dang.  Wills is my gardening mentor, he got me started with blueberries and then on figs.  He is not too far from me, so I have been to his place a few times.  That is a shame. 

I don't have a comment either way but wanted to be clear.  Did all four of them get banned?  Kelby, WillC, Aaron4USA, and RichinNJ?

I'd also like to see Kelby and Wills back.  Really good guys.

I respect Jon's right to make his own decisions for what he feels is the good of the forum.   

But I would appreciate some word on what he has decided to do with this mess and with these folks, and I suspect that many of the others posting in this thread would also.

Hmm, I guess I missed it all.  I have bought material from Wills and Kelby always seemed nice.   I thought this was a place where I can learn about figs from people who have ideas and facts and just plain ole in depth knowledge and experience that would make me a better figger rather than a muncher.  As some have said, there is always a second chance.    It is kinda like your puppy: mostly good and loveable with big feet that stumble and make mistakes that can be forgiven.  You don't throw him out the door in the snow.  I would like to see them back if they will come.   Just a newbie weighing in.   Can't we all dig in the dirt together :)

adoresfigs45.  Been her longer than most.  Here is the history.  This was a fig only place until a few newbies with egos wanted to take over.  All hell broke out.  MEN!  They don't do well with that.  Huge cyber fights started.  The real figgers just cringed.  That would be me.  But our leader, Jon, figured out the problem and banned a few for a while.  Don't think it's permanent.  Just meant to teach a lesson.  Sort of like the California 3 strikes rule.  They have been warned.  Still doing it.  Now on suspension.  do it again?  Banned forever!!
Suzi

Thanks Suzi, I was worried for a while, I am glad that you know what Jon is doing and informed us. Thanks again.

Jon, can we have our Wills and Kelby back....please?

They're both very productive and helpful members.

[QUOTE=GregMartin]Jon, can we have our Wills and Kelby back....please?

They're both very productive and helpful members.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100%

Let me ask you a question.  Would you like a private message you sent put public?  I doubt it.  This is what started the drama.  This is why the boys are sitting on stools and on time out.  Can you picture them?  They watch, but they cant say a word.  They are all little bad boys.  Time out.  Jon is dad.  He decides when the time out is over, and they better behave!
Suzi

I am trying to follow this issue and asked this about 3-4 hours ago, so who all is banned?  (Hopefully temporarily like Lisa articulated).  I am hopeful some of these responses are based on fact and not knee-gerk emotions.  Just asking.