I have read about Black Madeira many time on this forum with references to its slow growing/difficult to root nature and delicious flavor.  All are characteristics which I assume make it even more desirable in pot.  I am sure with UC Davis no longer sending cuttings to gardeners this makes the market even hotter. So, I keep watching E-bay just to see how much these things are going for.  A grafted tree just sold for a princely sum (based on my meager self imposed fig allowance).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Madeira-Fig-Tree-GRAFTED-excellent-tasty-variety-/271882172316?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f4d70b79c

In this case $130 for a grafted plant. Congrats to Harvey by the way it looks you are selling some really great looking trees.  Another went a few days ago for almost the same price.  I personally wonder how high these can go...my guess is even higher.

Anyway what is the highest you have seen a potted fig or cutting go for and what variety? What is your personal arc of the covenant that you would go beyond your normal price limits to obtain?  

I believe there was one not long ago, a dall'osso maybe? And an italian 258 that sold for bookoo bucks. But I think the one may have been fraudulent.
I did spend a lot on a de la reina, that was my dream fig though.

Shawn,

Wait until October and get one from JF&E (assuming they are in stock then) it's a 3+ tall tree typically for $29.99 + shipping.

Thus far accounts of buyers day it is a true Black Maderia.

https://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/JFE/product-category/fruit-trees/fig/

I remember a Dall'Osso going for $1025.00. 2 others for $500.00+. The highest I've seen was an Italian 258 that went for $1500.00. Dollars don't go far these days.

Unfortunately I am in California which is on the "no fly list" for many of these online nurseries including JF&E.

Some of those prices are pretty amazing, but I guess it is all about supply and demand.  I am sure that for many of these growers it doesnt even scratch the surface for the considerable investments they have made in this hobby.  I guess Italian 258 is off my list personal seeking list lol

[QUOTE=COGardener]Shawn,

Wait until October and get one from JF&E (assuming they are in stock then) it's a 3+ tall tree typically for $29.99 + shipping.

Thus far accounts of buyers day it is a true Black Maderia.

https://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/JFE/product-category/fruit-trees/fig/


[/QUOTE]

COG, who got these that believe they are correct? I believe the one I got my brother in law from them, is NOT a true Black Madeira.

Thanks, Shawn.  I have sold three others recently for more than the one that ended today.  Personally, I've paid more than that for some things that I think aren't as worthy but opinions vary.  As I pointed out in my auction, the grafted Black Madeira tree in my orchard was about 10 times the size of a non-grafted one planted right next to it of the same age.  By my calculations, that would make the non-grafted one worth 10% of the grafted one. :)

I have not seen anybody yet give an opinion on the authenticity of the Black Madeira sold by JF&E.  While they have been considered to be a reliable nursery, they are relying on their source being accurate.  They have also sold a supposed FMV-free Black Ischia and the photos I've seen of those don't look right and some owners have said they are taking a wait and see attitude.  I'm not saying this to promote the price of my Black Madeira but simply giving my honest observation on the matter.

I believe the record price for a fig tree was $1,500 paid for a very nice Italian 258 specimen sold by Ryan in Florida last summer.  There are always some people with the financial resources to buy what is important to them and there are always people with more limited resources that will question others.  I gave up trying to judge who is right.  One reason I like selling most things on eBay as I can avoid fretting over the price to set things at and let the market decide.

I've paid over $200 for a Dall'Osso from Olga.  Was it worth?  That depends on your definition of "worth".  To me it was because I've never seen a fig like it and only one other person had it in the US that I knew of.  My original tree died but not before I was lucky enough to get cuttings from it so one day I will be selling my tree.

Ebay.  I love ebay----but one should do their homework when buying from "unknown sellers".  Do I sell on eBay?   Yes.  I just have not put any of my figs on eBay YET!  But I will.  Ebay helped me build my fig collection and I am grateful.  For those who don't have the funds to bid on eBay should stay away because price wars do occur which should tell you that item is a sought item and hard to find.  But, if you're a collector like me, no price can stop you from getting what you want.  (smile)

I remember paying $150 bucks 3 years ago for a Black Maderia.  Why did I pay that much for it?  I paid that price because I've tasted Black Maderia figs from my garden and from UCD---and I've purchased reliable figs from the seller in previous years and his trees are superb.  In other words....I knew him and his shipping is always impectable!  The tree I got from him was the largest tree I've every purchased on line!  The box was 4 feet tall and 5 feet wide.  The tree was crated and glued inside to keep it from moving.  The tree still had figs on that also ripen that year!  Now, that's a seller I will always buy from!  Shipping was expensive but I knew the tree was worth it. 

Black Maderia figs have a very unique flavor and taste.  Plus when ripe---they have this thick goob of honey in the center.  They are very sweet figs with a strong mulberry/black berry taste that lingers on your palate.  I've never tasted a fig like Black Maderia which is why I was willing to pay top dollar at that time for one tree.

And while I'm on my soap box----Please get over this "leaf pattern" thing on figs.  I'm not trying to be mean by saying that.  What I'm saying is---over the years of visiting UCD and their large selection of fig trees, fig leaves vary from single lobe, 3 lobe, 5 lobe and 7 lobe.....all on one tree.  Don't belive me?  Ask Jon.  We saw it time a time again at UCD.  And they do nothing to their trees except give them water and fertilizer.  Some trees do have a certain leaf shape (like Vas... SIka, Ronde de Bordeaux, Brunswick, Long Brown Honey to name a few)  but most times leaf pattern isn't enough to pin point justification on idenfiying a fig tree.  You can with a leaf with its fruit!  And sometimes looking a fig fruit isn't enough!  Confusing?  You bet!  Welcome to the world of figs!  Case in point....here is a picture of a fig.  Can you guess what varitiey it is?

    
 
 
Again, I'm not being mean here.  I'm just saying....

Figs are very unique plants.  They really are.  This is why I am addicted to them!  I learn something new about them all the time. I have several Texas Everbearing fig trees from a variety of sources.  I collect them because I want to see what that person or company thinks a Texas Everbearing fig tree is.  Some say it's the same as Brown Turkey...some say its the same as Celeste.  So, who's right?  Well, honestly, they all are right!  If a collector grew Celeste, Brown Turkey and Texas Everbearing side by side, they can tell you which is which.  My first Texas Everbearing was 8 feet tall.  I got it 4 years ago and the leaf pattern a perfect 3 lobes all around.  Thanks to the ambrosia beetle, today my tree is now 3 feet tall and the leaf pattern is 7 lobe all around!  The figs look similar to Celeste but has a more richer flavor and jucier they Celeste.  The figs are longer than Celeste and the tree is nowhere hardier than Celeste.  The pulp is red and very sweet.  Brown Turkey on the other hand is hardy but not as hardy as Celeste.  The outside color is a greyish brown color with an amber center.  Most are not that sweet but the figs get better with age.  Caprified brown turkey and California Brown Turkey figs are very sweet and very rich....just look out and stay away from the Monrovia strain.....they are always tasteless IMHO.  Now, getting back to Black Maderia...

 I'm the guy that bought the last 3 - 3 gallon Black Maderia fig trees from Just Fruits & Exotics.  I called and spoke to the owners about that fig jsut before I bought them.  I did not ask him if it was a Black Maderia fig tree.  I asked him for the source of the tree.  I knew this would be a touchy subject for some resellers.  But I wanted to know and he did not tell me.  What he said was, he can guarantee the fig tree did come from Maderia and it is black.  And that was good enough for me.  I've seen photos of the figs online and I think I know what this figs might be but I won't say at this time.  I 'm gonna wait till this summer and post pictures from my trees.  My 3 trees have not grown much but they are 4 feet tall and growing right next to my Black Maderia UCD, Black Maderia RW, and my other Black Maderias.  All 5 have leafed out and have tiny nubs on them.  

If you saw the Black Maderia fig tree at UCD you will be shocked!  It's barley 6 feet tall.  And the same goes for Black Ischia---it being a little taller.  Both trees have an extreme case of FMV and is very dwarfed.  So, if you have a Black Maderia or Black Ischia fig tree...no matter where it came from, I recommend holding on to it.  To me, these are on the top of the King of fig chart -- in the Black fig category.  Smith is too in the rainbow or tri-color category.

I appauld Harvey for selling figs on eBay.  He is such a super great guy!  I got the chance to meet him face to face last year at UCD.  We had some great conversations and I look forward to many more!  He's trying to keep us all safe when buying on eBay and I appreciate that.  So, thanks Harvey!

Sorry for the long note.....I've been very busy outside cleaning up my trees daily and haven't said much on the forum.  I need to stop here or I'll talk for hours.....

Dennis,

Thanks for the detailed info and sharing your experience.  It was a great read for me being new to this hobby.  

I am currently holding at 9 trees as I will be doing a major landscape project in the next 6 months.  This landscape project compounded with my wife already thinking I have a screw loose for getting 9 trees will keep me in check for a while.  Black Madeira is definitely on the wish list and the grafted ones that Harvey sells look like a great tree overcoming some of the problem with Black Madeira.  Has anyone seen a TC Black Madeira and does TC really get rid of FMV? 

Я хотел, чтобы Black Мадейру для выращивания в России, но в присутствии вируса мозаики мне не нужно. Моя коллекция состоит из фиговых растений, свободных от FMV

Shawn, yes....TC plants do not have FMV.  I have not see any TC Black Maderia though.  But that gives me an idea!

[QUOTE=Vladis]Я хотел, чтобы Black Мадейру для выращивания в России, но в присутствии вируса мозаики мне не нужно. Моя коллекция состоит из фиговых растений, свободных от FMV[/QUOTE]

FYI, translated: I wanted Black Madeira for growing in Russia, but in the presence of the mosaic virus I don't need. My collection consists of fig plants, freefrom the FMV

Hey, thanks, Dennis, for sharing your "soap box" insights! :)

Last August, the Ischia Black tree at Wolfskill (there was only one that survived) was only about 15" tall with about 8" of growth.  Howard did say, however, that he had potted back-ups to plant in the new block.  Crazy.  I think that this is another one that I will graft next year to see if a vigorous rootstock will help it's growth.

I know a bit about tissue culture, having experimented with it some.  Tissue culture itself does not remove FMV but during the process the technicians can use various products to attempt to remove such things but it is not easy.  In fact, it is difficult!  Directly south of the USDA office on UCD property is located Foundation Plant Services (the purple building).  This is a private enterprise unit serving the tree and vine nursery industry, handling imports of plant material and removing all plant diseases to make them safe for public distribution.  I know them well as I initiated a project that involved the importation of chestnut material several years ago (they handled the 5 year quarantine).  I spoke with the director of the facility last year about removal of FMV and if they would handle it for me.  She said they would try at a cost of $2,000 but also indicated that they had previously tried and were unsuccessful.  This is a facility with expert staff so this causes me some doubts about anybody claiming FMV-free fig trees.  But I hope I'm wrong!  I'm still debating plunking down the $2,000!

Dennis,
Very good post!  So true about the leaves.  You definitely cannot rely on leaf shapes alone for identification.

Shawn, I bought a few Black Maderia cuttings back in 2011 and had tasted my first one @ Jon's place in 2013. Definitely the best fig I've tasted to date, no if ands or buts.

Last year I got 3 figs from my young tree and while they did not taste as good as Jon's (still better than most even young) this year looks like its shaping to be even better.

If you can find it, pull the trigger and pick it up. :-)

Dennis, you've got me thinking about the JF&E Black Madeira.  According to your post above, the owner said "he can guarantee the fig tree did come from Maderia and it is black"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201341845261 is an auction of an active seller in Portugal that sells a black fig from Madeira.  The photo of fruit he is using was lifted from Nelson where he first posted it at GardenWeb at http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1890883/fig-varieties-from-madeira-island in 2009.  Nelson complained to eBay about the use of his photo and eBay did not take action.  This seller has sold hundreds (possibly thousands) of cuttings to buyers in Thailand and Malaysia who don't really know what they have.  The fig in the photo is known by several names, including Bebera Preta and Abebereira (I believe).  It is not the fig we know here in the U.S. as Black Madeira.  Francisco (lampo) believes that to be Violeta.  Another seller on eBay has sold what he reportedly listed as black fig from Madeira which Keith (kk) bought and reported that he believes it's probably the same as Black Madeira.  I bought cuttings from Keith to grow and make a comparison.  So far, the leaf shape and slow growth are similar to what I expect from Black Madeira.

Harvey, I can also confirm that Keith's (kk) is the real deal if compared to Jon's. My I grew from cuttings from Keith (12/30/11) and has the same unmistakable leaves and fig-a-licious taste as Jon's Black Madeira I tried last summer, just mine is much younger and the flavor was less concentrated.

[QUOTE = HarveyC]  Это объект с помощью специалистов, так это вызывает у меня некоторые сомнения по поводу кого утверждая FMV-бесплатные смоковницы. Но я надеюсь, что я ошибаюсь!  [/ QUOTE]Harvey, issues related to the FMV, other infections and diseases have been studied in the NBS, Yalta back in 1970. Cuttings, seedlings figs for gardeners of the NBS for the USSR implemented only healthy. So, today, on the Black Sea coast of Russia trees, shrubs figs are free from FMV

[QUOTE=HarveyC]
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201341845261 is an auction of an active seller in Portugal that sells a black fig from Madeira.  The fig in the photo is known by several names, including Bebera Preta and Abebereira (I believe). [/QUOTE]

It certainly looks a lot like my Abebereira.

 

[QUOTE=striveforfreedom]Harvey, I can also confirm that Keith's (kk) is the real deal if compared to Jon's. My I grew from cuttings from Keith (12/30/11) and has the same unmistakable leaves and fig-a-licious taste as Jon's Black Madeira I tried last summer, just mine is much younger and the flavor was less concentrated.[/QUOTE]

I believe Harvey was referring to a new black fig KK got from Madeira, not KK's original Black Madeira. Correct Harvey?

I just asked my brother in law for updated pictures of his JFE Black Madeira NOT. He is outside Savanah,GA. There is little doubt in my mind that this is NOT a Black Madeira.

[URL=http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/Salmon_Slam/media/figs/2015May27/20150601_155014.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s378/Salmon_Slam/figs/2015May27/20150601_155014.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/Salmon_Slam/media/figs/2015May27/20150601_160307.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s378/Salmon_Slam/figs/2015May27/20150601_160307.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/Salmon_Slam/media/figs/2015May27/20150601_154951.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s378/Salmon_Slam/figs/2015May27/20150601_154951.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Thanks for the additional information everybody.  Nick, have you shared your thoughts with JF&E?  Maybe they're selling Bebera Preta (Abebereira).

[QUOTE=HarveyC]Thanks for the additional information everybody.  Nick, have you shared your thoughts with JF&E?  Maybe they're selling Bebera Preta (Abebereira).[/QUOTE]

No Harvey. I knew chances were high that it wasn't what they stated, but for $30, my brother got a large healthy fig tree. I was more disappointed that a reputable nursery was selling figs that are obviously not what they claim.

If it is Bebera Preta, I will be a bit jealous of my brother as the cuttings I got this winter of BP didn't make it. :)

Okay, Nick, but I think you'd be doing JF&E a favor by letting them know.  That' is still a pretty good value if it's BP.  And it's good that you've mentioned it here so others know about it.

As far as the price for my grafted BM, my profit just dropped, LOL.  USPS took six days to deliver the third tree I shipped and it arrived with the graft snapped off.  I'm adding a splint for the replacement I'm shipping.  Wish me and the buyer luck! :)

Back on the original topic, I wish somebody had a grafted BM for sale back 6-7 years ago when I first tried growing one.  A generous member sent me an airlayer that I babied for about a year before it died.  Then I rooted my own about 5 years ago and it just recently got big enough to plant into the ground.  Glad I don't have to wait for that one to grow up to size since the one I grafted about 28 months ago is a nice sized tree now putting on plenty of fruit.  I think I'll suggest to Howard at Davis to consider grafting some of his weak growers.

I guess I got lucky that the Black Madeira cuttings that I obtained about 3.5 years ago resulted in a tree with little or no signs of fmv.  It has an average growth rate compared to the other trees in my collection; I don't think grafting would make it grow very much faster though it would be interesting to try.  In it's 2nd season it produced at least 20 figs and I should get quite a few more this year.  I do agree that it is more temperamental to propagate than most figs.  I believe others have had similar experiences with BM as I while still others have a strain of BM that grows very slowly and shows a lot of fmv.  I wonder if it is one of those figs that can grow out of the fmv under certain conditions?  The tree I collected cuttings from had been growing in the ground in zone 7b for a few seasons without protection.  Perhaps it froze to the ground at some point and a healthy sucker grew back in time for me to collect cuttings?

Rewton, do you have a photo of the leaves?
I've had FMV show up one year but following season tree grows vigorously with no sign of FMV.
I've heard gene hosey had a black Madeira with no FMV.

Bass, here is a thread I started last year that shows my Black Madeira (now sold but I am rooting cuttings) and Figo Preto:

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/black-madeira-and-figo-preto-comparison-7063585?pid=1284158792#post1284158792

This Black Madeira did indeed come from Gene's orchard.  I'm sure that tree has since died from the harsh winters we had recently (not to mention animal damage etc.).  According to Gene's records it was obtained from UC-Davis.  I have no explanation for why it is so healthy.  On occasion there will be a leaf with a bit of fmv mottling but that doesn't seem to slow it down.  In my hands Figo Preto is essentially identical (growth, leaves, flavor, productivity, etc) and also a healthy variety.

Remember Dennis I have one in ground and one in a 3 gallon of black madeiras from your cuttings. Obviously being in Fresno out of my 60-70 small trees most have fmv but BM has been highly resistant. I can take pics later today.

To say im excited is an understatement lol

Brian, you have a Black Madeira from cuttings I sent you as well, correct?  Is it still doing well?

Yes that is it in the picture. I have another in a 3 gallon from your cuttings and also a spare 1 gallon I rooted off a cutting I took from the 3 gallon.

I have found this discussion to be an eye opener.  Just so much good info about this variety. It sounds like BM stands up to the hype.  I am looking forward to trying one. I'll have to start saving my lunch money. Also, thanks for the heads-up regarding the Black fig from Madeira being marketed as Black Madeira.  That would be a hug disappointment.

Accept no substitutes for UCD origin Black Madeira if you have a long season.

   

I will need to track one down with the appropriate pedigree.

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/black-madeira-7201798?pid=1285396814

Wow great looking BM Karla.  I am envious.

fascinating, I really want to know what this fig taste like

[QUOTE=johnnyq627][QUOTE=COGardener]Shawn,

Wait until October and get one from JF&E (assuming they are in stock then) it's a 3+ tall tree typically for $29.99 + shipping.

Thus far accounts of buyers day it is a true Black Maderia.

https://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/JFE/product-category/fruit-trees/fig/


[/QUOTE] COG, who got these that believe they are correct? I believe the one I got my brother in law from them, is NOT a true Black Madeira.[/QUOTE] 

Usually, if something is not correct it is posted allover the forums. Since I had not seen anything saying otherwise, it was to just assume it was correct. 

It's to bad that it's not, I was planning to get one come October.  So what is it  then? And has anyone told JF&E that they are misrepresenting the cultivar?

"Edit"  helps to read the whole thread!  I will still be getting one and then labeling it correctly. 

Thank you all for the clarification. 

No one knows what it is yet, or if it is truly even from Madeira. I will ask my brother to keep us posted when the figs ripen though.

[QUOTE=johnnyq627]No one knows what it is yet, or if it is truly even from Madeira. I will ask my brother to keep us posted when the figs ripen though.[/QUOTE]

Ok, Sounds good.  They are not available for shipping until October so there is plenty of time to learn what it is and if it is worth adding to the collection.

Thanks Johhny

Ok I have an update. Brandy at JF&E contacted me today in repsonse to my email. She was extremely nice and very upset about the mix up. She provided me a copy of her USDA receipt from 2008, to show the authenticity of their Black Madeira. She also provided a picture of their mother plant: [URL=http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/Salmon_Slam/media/figs/2015Jun18/Black%20Maderia%20mother%20stock%201.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s378/Salmon_Slam/figs/2015Jun18/Black%20Maderia%20mother%20stock%201.jpg[/IMG][/URL] There were also two pictures of child plants: [URL=http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/Salmon_Slam/media/figs/2015Jun18/Black%20Maderia%20mother%20stock.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s378/Salmon_Slam/figs/2015Jun18/Black%20Maderia%20mother%20stock.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/Salmon_Slam/media/figs/2015Jun18/Black%20Maderia.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s378/Salmon_Slam/figs/2015Jun18/Black%20Maderia.jpg[/IMG][/URL] The pictures she provided look exactly like Black Madeira. Brandy was also very insistent that JF&E has a strong "true to name" gaurantee. I told her my Brother's tree was healthy, so no need for a refund, but that I would like to purchase another true Black Madeira. She insisted that I not pay since I did not get the correct variety. Mistakes happen. Sometimes cuttings get dropped, swapped, confused, etc. The important thing is once realized, the seller makes good. Two important things to note: 1) JF&E appears to have a true Black Madeira UCD 2) There was a mixup with at least a couple of their trees 3) They are willing to ensure their customers are happy I will report back when I receive the replacement tree next week.

I will be curious to see how many TRUE Bmadeiras orders they can fill.

I received the replacement Black Madeira from JF&E last night...

https://youtu.be/p4NN9b4s0kQ

As far as I can tell, it looks to be a Black Madeira. I won't know for sure until it fruits.

Sounds like they took care of you, Nick.  Looking forward to the final results!

i paid 158 for a black maderia plant