Quote: Originally Posted by adipose
Look, I'm not going to say this is a Ponzi scheme, but the main reason this cannot be called a Ponzi scheme is, no returns have been paid out.
If James had been buying cuttings/trees with the money we sent for 2017, and delivering them on-time for 2016 orders, knowing that he would never be able to deliver 2017 orders without money from 2018-2019 orders, that would be a Ponzi scheme.
Instead what we have is investments have been paid all the way into Oct. 2017 orders, and no returns have been paid. So, he is not trying to make the investment appear better than it is by paying out early returns. However, as soon as people start receiving their cuttings, at that point one could make the argument for a Ponzi scheme, as backwards as that sounds.
The more accurate and concerning description of the situation, should figs fail to be delivered, would be "failed enterprise." If James runs out of money before delivering any 2016 figs, that would mean the 2017 investments were used for 2016 orders. That would border on "Ponzi," because it would mean he was underwater, knew it, and used money from new "investors" to cover current demands. If he runs out after delivering 2016 orders but before starting 2017 orders, the same would apply.
Wikipedia:
Perhaps the term "Ponzi" is inadequate here as no "high returns" were ever promised, and we can arguably be called customers rather than investors. On the other hand, James described us as investors, made it clear he needed the seed capital to begin the project, and took money with no products to deliver. $7 Black Madeira could be called a "high return," if you will. If he can't do it without 2017 money--then "Ponzi" could apply.
I think the honest truth that we all should acknowledge is--James did not have money to pay his heating bills at the beginning of this. The investment we have seen evidence of has surely depleted the 2016 investments that he enumerated based on my earlier questions. At this point he must be going into pocket. But how deep is that pocket, if he couldn't afford to heat his greenhouses originally? If that pocket is empty, the only place to take from is 2017 orders.
Adipose-Why don't you contact James and ask him these questions if you are so concerned about it? You have came up with personal questions like about "James and his Money"..... Oh yea, I never heard James say he was not able to pay his heating Bill! So the best thing for you to do is get it from the Horse's Mouth.
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