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Subject: OT Anyone growing hardy pomegranates? Replies: 45
Posted By: knutinh Views: 650
 
On a practical note: pomme fruit stores well (like apples). So store bought fruit should be about the same quality as home-made, unlike figs?

Of course, growing against all odds and advice is an interesting challenge in itself.


Subject: OT Anyone growing hardy pomegranates? Replies: 45
Posted By: knutinh Views: 650
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevIsgro
I would imagine that is correct. I haven't seen any scholarly articles mentioning how readily they hybridize or seedling test results per variety, but some variation would make sense. With the low cost of a pomegranate tree usually I don't personally see much the point of seedlings for readily available varieties. But that's me and I'm also running low on space ;)

Pommegranate is not a plant that you can buy over the counter where I live, and import of any living plant material except for seeds means phyto sanitary certificate, cost and time.

I planted the seeds with the kids for fun.

-k

Subject: OT Anyone growing hardy pomegranates? Replies: 45
Posted By: knutinh Views: 650
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamafig
Do pom cuttings root the same as fig cuttings?  In zone 8 how long from cutting to fruit, give or take?

I planted some seeds from shop bought fruit ("wonderful", I assume).

Most popped up and were eagerly growing in my window shelves. I re-potted them outside in early summer. Those who went straight outside had a shock, and I doubt that they had the strength to survive winter. I planted a couple in a garden cold bench. Perhaps they will survive.

Subject: OT Anyone growing hardy pomegranates? Replies: 45
Posted By: knutinh Views: 650
 
There are a number of sources on growing pommegranades in cooler climates.

http://www.ediblelandscaping.com and http://www.palmapalmetto.de are particulary relevant because they have pommes (and fig) supposedly suited for cooler climates and because they are willing to ship to non US customers.

The most interesting seems to be from russia. Salavatski, Parfianka, Kazake, Entekeh-Sabi...

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1520016/pomegranates-in-colder-climates
"Climates that do not allow pomegranate to ripen have cool and/or short summers. These are seldom the same climates that are too cold in winter for the plant. In other words, pomegranates do well in zone 7 Albuquerque, but probably not in zone 8 Seattle for example."

While my climate may allow for pommes to survive (I live in Norway), I doubt that my summers are sufficiently long and hot to mature fruit on plants that come from inland russia.

On a resent trip to China (Xi'an), I saw miles and miles of pommegranate fields. They seemed to wrap each individual fruit into some bag, possibly to avoid birds/insects?

Subject: Figs up north (europe) Replies: 28
Posted By: knutinh Views: 830
 
So my unknown (presumed Brown Turkey) has ripened 2 nice fruit earlier this summer.

Now, I have 6 fruits on the bush, 2 of which are darkening on one side (see picture). 
IMG_0592.jpg 
Leaves have been yellowing and dropping at a modest pace. No fruit dropping.

We have been fortunate with a mild autumn so far:
weather2.png 
but not any more it seems:
weather.png
Is there any hope? Should I remove any figs? I presume that winter survival is improved by having a gradual autumn / winter adapatation.

regards
k


Subject: Mountain Figs - cold hardy early ripening Replies: 85
Posted By: knutinh Views: 8,704
 
This forum is a great resource!

Some thoughts:
*A plant living (high) in the mountains of Italy or Iran may well have freezing winter temps and chilly summer nights. But (I presume) a long, relatively hot and dry summer with plenty of sunlight. While e.g. -15 degrees celcius might be tolerated there, this value may or may not be what limits how far up north the plant will succeed along the coast, where low temps are moderated by the proximity to water mass, but so is summer heat and sunlight is limited.
*Plant survival and (worthwhile) fruiting quality and quantity may not be perfectly correlated. Some species may be prone to being killed in winter but otherwise put up good fruit in numbers, while others might grow healthy but never be able to set good fruit. The former may be suited for heavy winter protection or lugging pots inside, while the latter may need a green house.

I do wonder how I can improve micro climate, and what can be gained from this. Well-drained soil is needed by most plants in my (humid) climate. This means more rapid heat up in spring, but more frequent watering. Planting against a reflective south wall/fence of some heat retention seems like a good idea. Using black woven ground cover. Using large stones for heat retention and weed protection. The next step probably is a green house of some sort, or plastic for wind shade.

Mt Etna type figs seems more prevalent in the US than in europe?

This page describes a thorough study to find figs suited for Denmark:
http://www.westergaards.dk/node/182

This page describes one mans attempts at growing figs in Sweden:
http://www.fruitiers-rares.info/articles57a62/article59-Fig-growing-in-Sweden-Ficus-carica.html

K

Subject: Figs up north (europe) Replies: 28
Posted By: knutinh Views: 830
 
My first ripe fig. A bit of a cheat because it was allready unripe on the tree when I bought it early this summer.

Tasted a lot better than any store bought fig I have tasted.

Lots of small figlets now forming on the branches. Guess they will not mature this season.

I will try keeping the plants alive in pots this winter, will try in ground next year if everything works out.

Have been feeding them highly diluted tomato fertilizer along with a good watering about once a week. Seems to fit our temps and moisture quite well.

Attached Images
jpeg image.jpeg (54016, 11 views)


Subject: Figs up north (europe) Replies: 28
Posted By: knutinh Views: 830
 
One of my figs is turning purple on the underside (from green). How far away from maturing might that be?

I also have the leaves shaded by other leaves turn uellow and can be plucked off. Is that usual?

K

Attached Images
jpeg image.jpeg (276158, 20 views)


Subject: Figs up north (europe) Replies: 28
Posted By: knutinh Views: 830
 
Focusing on fruiting quality and quantity. Is it the lack of heat, the rain or lack of sunshine that is the dominant factor?

I have potted my plants up against the south-southeast wall of my house where there is some shelter from the rain and on a massive concrete slab that retains heat in the evening. The idea is that black pots will give some extra heat to the soil, while the white pebble will reflect some sunlight back to the plant. Going further would be a greenhouse (or greenhouse-like) solution, but due to space constraints I would rather not.

Sunshine I cannot practically improve.

Subject: USDA Zone Replies: 15
Posted By: knutinh Views: 274
 
Palmapalmetto.de have a number of figs. I am trying in Norway, I expect that Germany has a better climate for figs.

Subject: Ideal Fig growning Environement? Replies: 4
Posted By: knutinh Views: 220
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingingGardener
Hi,

I'm building a Solar Greenhouse and would love feedback from all you experts out there as to what the ideal temperature and humidity for figs in general would be.  I know there are different varieties all over the world in various ecosystems.  But if you had to pick for figs in general what would it be?

I'm excited to have a big FIG HOUSE and would love your suggestions and input to make it ideal for several varieties.

I'm in Zone 5 SE Iowa & have 20+ varieties and about 40-50 Chicago Hardy (because I knew they would work here: Lots of babies this year.) 

Trying to approximate a mediterranean climate sounds like a good idea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_climate

I would think through:
1. Ventilation. Enough. Automatic.
2. Plant in pots or in ground? For tomato, I'd plant in pots to be able to swap the soil and avoid disease. For long-lived trees, I' be tempted to plant in ground.
3. How cold are your winters? Do you plan to heat during winter, or add extra insulation?
4. Adding some "thermal mass" might make sense if you have excess heat during the day (need to ventilate), but cold nights.
5. Certain diseases thrive in green houses (hot, humid, no rain, no wind).

-k

Subject: Fig - Dalmatie vs Fig - Precoce de Dalmatie Replies: 23
Posted By: knutinh Views: 1,768
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsfrance
Hi,
As already written, I'm still to see a "Precoce de Dalmatie" fig tree offered in a nursery here, knowing that this strain is supposed to be cold hardy ... Kind of weird because I'm in a cooler region of France.
So for now for me "Precoce de Dalmatie" is an internet legend or a marketing name for something else.

When I decide to buy a tree, I do it on feelings . If the tree is "beautiful" ( and blinks her eyes to me ) -medium sized, strong and not expensive -, I give it a try.
"Precoce de  Dalmatie" could turn into a good discovery; But for now, just a myth for me .
If you have access to this strain try it, and let us know :) .

Ill be receiving one plant named precoce de dalmatie from Denmark in 2017. It is described as related to brown turkey and bornholm figs.
http://www.westergaards.dk/figen/precose%20de%20dalmatie

Subject: Figs up north (europe) Replies: 28
Posted By: knutinh Views: 830
 
image (2).jpeg 
So I ended up buying two figs, one at each of the major garden centers at $50 each.

The left one was just a stick in a pot. It fell over one weekend while I was away, so leafs had some damage, but it is coming around nicely. It is marked as "Ficus carica - Brown Turkey" and the stickers says that it needs pollinating (!), warns about needing H-3 (Oslo climate) and evenly moist soil.

The right one seems to be one year older and has two large-ish green fruit on it. Just labelled as "Ficus Carica", but I am guessing that it is a Brown Turkey as well.

Both have been repotted with mixed peat/clay/compost/leca-balls soil in (somewhat) insulated aerofoam pots with drainage holes, gravel at the bottom and get a south-southeast location up against the wall (some shelter for the rain) on a concrete slab that keeps solar heat well during the afternoon.

I am getting 'Precoce de Dalmatie', 'Petrovaca' and 'White Marseille' bare-root imported from Denmark in the spring of 2017. Guess I'll get to learn this summer (and not least winter).

Early summer has been just about as good as it will ever be over here. Temperature touching (ever so shortly) 30 degrees Celsius in early June and drought is pretty much unheard of. This means the luxury of fighting spider mites instead of slugs, but I am sure that will soon change :-)

@woodenman: yes, I have read that piece with some interest. His experience seems highly relevant to my quest. So doing in-ground figs here without special care seems to be hard. I am not sure yet if moving potted plants or sheltering in-ground plants will be my thing eventually, I will focus on getting the two potted plants that I have survive this winter.

-k


Subject: Grafting a fig tree with other type of fruit trees? Replies: 30
Posted By: knutinh Views: 7,297
 
What about non-hardy figs onto a hardy root stock?

Subject: Figs up north (europe) Replies: 28
Posted By: knutinh Views: 830
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodenman
Yeah, I knew you were EEC and not EU, though I knew that you shared a lot of the rules and thought that this may be one of those occasions.

I wouldn't rely on an HC seed being anything like the parent plant - it's very much a lucky dip and you may even end up with an inedible male plant or a fig that needs the wasp.



I see. So how does the fig community get the diversity and genetic improvement that tends to accompany plant cultivation?
Quote:

I believe that shipping is a problem, but importing plants on foot seems to be OK as long as you're not going to be setting up a commercial plantation with it (at when sourced from the EU). http://www.toll.no/en/goods/plants-and-seeds/regulations-for-fruits-vegetables-plants-flowers-and-seeds/ says you're allowed 5 potted (house) plants. No mention of cuttings, though I guess you could stick them in a pot of compost - probably better to send them an e-mail though, but a cutting should be 'safer' than a whole soil-bound plant.

The link below says that you are allowed to bring when travelling:
5 potted house plants
25 cut flowers
50 packs of seeds
3kg of flower buds/onions
10kg of vegetables fruits and berries

Other than that, the rule is that plant material must be accompanied by phyto sanitary certificate. Cuttings are explicitly mentioned as part of that requirement.

http://www.mattilsynet.no/planter_og_dyrking/import_av_planter_mm/Privat_import_av_planter_og_fro/regler_for_innforsel_av_planter_og_fro_mm_for_reisende_og_i_flyttelass.12600

I have two locally bought figs now ($40 a piece). One marked as ficus brown turkey, the other not marked. The first is just a long stick with some foliage, the other has dense foliage and two fruits on it. They seem to be happy behind an ad hoc transparent plastic shelter in the spring heat that we are having right now (18C in daytime, 8C at night).

Subject: Figs up north (europe) Replies: 28
Posted By: knutinh Views: 830
 
So do you think that the success of hardy chicago is due to having a main crop on same-year growth (thus giving some fruit despite dying down to the ground in winter)? And that this works if you have a really hot and long summer (inland northern US, but not scandinavia). As HC comes from mt Edna (?) one would think that european nurseries had similar species that never travelled across the pond.

Unfortunately, Norwegian authorities consider cuttings the same way as bare root plants. You need a phyto sanitary certificate when bringing plants across our borders or run the risk of being indicted. I recently visited the Netherlands and Boskoop. Lots of interesting plants, but I had to let the idea of bringing some go. We are not a part of the EU (though we do have to follow most decitions of the EU without having a vote - so much for the sovereignty that was the motivation for us not joining the EU).

I have a BT and an unmarked (Most probably BT) that I bought in local nurseries. I will try the out and get some feel for how hard this is. Any Import will have to be in spring 2017. If I can find generous Norwegians with more diversity and local experience I might be able to beg for cuttings. I also have the option of searching national nurseries for more figs (there might be bornholm/precoce de dalmatie and some afghanistanica plants in nurseries in southwestern nurseries that do not ship...)

http://www.odegard-plantesalg.no/default.aspx?mod=4&m1=15
"Ficus carica Bornholm,fiken
" " afganica
" " Brown Turkey"

If, say, a Hardy Chicago fig fruited in an area with the fig wasp, what would the properties of that seed be? Completely random? Likely but not certainly similar to HC? Would its offspring also need the wasp to fruit?

-k

Subject: Figs up north (europe) Replies: 28
Posted By: knutinh Views: 830
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lampo
Hello Knut

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks.
Quote:

I do have a lot of appreciation of what you fellows do to ripen figs in your latitudes and climates
You must love figs very much!

Or some sort of masochism :-)

Truth be told, I have never tasted "fresh" fig. I am told that the difference between fresh fig and "picked unripe, then transported across the world" is somewhat like fresh vs unfresh Strawberry or Tomato. That makes me curious.

We do have specialties of our own, though. The feeling of finding ripe "mountain gold" (cloudberry) is really special. And in that case, our climate actually works for us, not against us.
[6b701856ecc56322d0d577a5fb23a5ee-1] 

Quote:

IMO, a well designed GH seems to be part of the answer to the problem

I am hoping to find some hardy figs that will survive in a pot freeland if I protect it in winter. Eventually, I might add GH types to mix with my tomatoes and cucumbers.

-k

Subject: Figs up north (europe) Replies: 28
Posted By: knutinh Views: 830
 
Report from a Danish nursery (in Danish) that sourced 30 different species of Figs possibly suited for the Danish climate from nurseries, associations and private collectors over a 10 year period (2005-2015). They looked for figs that would fruit without the fig wasp, being winter hardy and setting fruit up north.

About 50% of the plants were indistinguishable from Brown Turkey, and they continued trials on the 14 unique ones. They seem to claim that the "Danish" fig (Bornholm) is the same as Brown Turkey, this comes as a surprise to me. They did trials in a 200m^2 plastic tunnel and in the open. 

Conclusion:
Nearly only Brown Turkey (and its clones) gives good results in the open. Petrovaca, Hardy Chicago and White Marseilles should be tried in sheltered spots where they mature nicely and at about the same time as Brown Turkey. In a greenhouse, you have more possibilities, even for main-crop oriented ones.

http://www.westergaards.dk/node/182

From their site:
'Brown Turkey' is the most used fig in cool climates. It is a part of the complex called "Bornholm figs". 95% of the free-range figs fruiting in Denmark is thought to be Brown Turkey.

http://www.westergaards.dk/figen/brown%20tyrkey

'Précoce de Dalmatie' is very similar to Brown Turkey, and is also a part of the "Bornholm fig" complex. Good for free range.

http://www.westergaards.dk/figen/precose%20de%20dalmatie



Subject: Winter storage Replies: 3
Posted By: knutinh Views: 85
 
My first attempt at getting figs in Norway, after much head-scratching. This is up North, close to the sea/Gulf stream, so cool/short summers, cold winters (but perhaps not as cold as inland Canada/Russia), generally humid climate. 

I have the options of:
1. Leaving plants in ground (either in a constricted pot buried in the ground, or planted directly into the ground). Doing a raised bed would allow for better drainage, but perhaps less insulation from frost? I can apply insulation mats to the ground and wrap the plant in fleece.

2. Moving potted plants into a unheated garage (no wind, no rain, lots of air, dry, but will be nominally as cold as outside). I fear that no matter how much wrapping, once temps hit -20 degrees C, the pot will (eventually) freeze solid and kill the plant?

3. Moving plants into an insulated cold bench (no wind, no rain, little air, probably some moist, receiving some heat from the ground/sun). Will I be bothered by rot, mold etc?

4. Moving potted plants into a cellar storage room. Not directly heated, but stays around 15 degrees C year around due to heat leakage from the rest of the house. This is the room where I plant my seedlings, so expect some CCFL lighting in spring.

5. Burying the plants in a ditch, covering with dead leaves and soil. Sceptical about the moist.

There are solutions for electric heating mats, but I would rather not go that route. These options tends to be self-regulating for some target temp, but when it gets really cold (when you need them the most), I believe that they tend to switch off due to ice build-up?

regards
k

Subject: Figs up north (europe) Replies: 28
Posted By: knutinh Views: 830
 
Thank you. Would that be Florea (Michurinska-10)?
http://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-home/16881-early-ripening-fig-varieties
http://drbelljuiceplus.com/2015/02/04/three-cold-tolerant-fig-varieties-to-grow-in-the-northeast/

What about 'LSU O'Rourke', 'Nordland Bergfeige', 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maris

Here in Poland we speak about summer when daily avg is >15C

Regards from Poland ;)


Thanks for rubbing it in :-)

mnd.nob.png 
We have had some days in may that are extraordinary, though. 24C at this time of year is pure luxury (I guess that Poland has been the same lately?)

cheers
-k

Subject: Figs up north (europe) Replies: 28
Posted By: knutinh Views: 830
 
>>you need cold hardy fig tree.
Agreed.

I'll add that the sun rise over the horizon 18 hours in june/july, 6 hours in late december. We have 763mm of precipitation, distributed among 166 rainy days (dryer winters than summers, september is wettest). The official statistics period is for 1961-1990. If one looks at 1991-present, temperatures seems to have risen by 1-2 degrees C. Global warming or statistical quirk, I guess.

The figs on offer here tends to be Brown Turkey. But then, our garden centers tends to sell whatever their Dutch suppliers have at hand, rather than what is suited for our climate (I see that a lot with Apricot and Grapes). To a lesser degree, I see Bornholm (AKA Precoce de Dalmatie? AKA Bornholm Diamond?) and Ficus Afghanistanica, Ficus 'Ice Crystal'. But talk about 'Hardy Chicago' makes it sound like a perfect hardy, good-tasting fig. Mysteriously, it seems to not be available here in Europe. Is it more of an "inland climate" fig? (surviving dry, cold winters, needing really hot/long summers)?

Locally, there are not that many fig-growers to consult that I know of. I don't know if that is because it is really hard, or because we simple do not have traditions for doing so (no large mediterranean groups of immigrants here). I know that some have been able to fruit Brown Turkey. I have read this article about growing figs in Sweden. It seems very relevant:
http://www.fruitiers-rares.info/articles57a62/article59-Fig-growing-in-Sweden-Ficus-carica.html

(In general) to combat the climate challenges over here, what would you recommend? I assume that putting lots of drainage around its feet (rather relying on active watering) in order to allow it to dry somewhat up periodically and during winter is a good thing. But does it dislike wet foliage? (should I plant it close to a wall such that it will not be hit by direct rain, should I encase it in white fiber cloth, or is a green house the only way?). Is it feasible to survive winter outside (first winter? second?) using winter fleece, covering the ground with mulch/isolation mats? Or should I keep it in a pot, move it (I have a cold garage, a 15 degree C cellar and an isolated cold-bench outside).

I do know that for grapes, it is recommended to chose a south-facing slope, to avoid planting at the bottom of the slope, to use black glassfibre cover of the soil (avoid weeds, get more heating from the sun, let through water/nutrients), plant against a brick wall/fence (preferred) or a white wooden house wall/fence. Many recommend putting large-ish rocks around the plants feet for heat retention. For many fruit bushes/trees, some kind of espalier/fan-training is recommended in order to maximize sunlight and avoiding damp foliage/branches.

I also have the option of planting at the cabin. There it is even more "coastal" (milder winters, more even summers, full sun, windy). Would have to combat grazing sheep, though :-)
Jan mean temp: -2.0 C 
July mean temp: 16.5 C 
Year average: 6.9 C 
Growth season: 180-200 days (daily avg >5C) 
Summer : 133 days (daily avg >10C)

regards
Knut

Subject: Figs up north (europe) Replies: 28
Posted By: knutinh Views: 830
 
Hello everyone. First post here.

I just got my first fig (Brown Turkey). Living in Norway, I have cold wet winters (typical minimum -20C) and cool wet summers compared to many of you I guess.
Jan mean temp: -4.3 C
July mean temp: 16.4 C
Year average: 5.7 C
Growth season: 188 days (daily avg >5C)
Summer : 133 days (daily avg >10C)

As a bonus, we have a rich supply of Iberian slugs (they eat anything).

But it would be nice to have some fresh figs just for the sport. So is it brown turkey (what garden centers sells here), Brunswick, Bornholm (precose de dalmatie?) or hardy chicago or afghanistan or ice crystal or ciccio nero or fico bianco?

For grapes, we seem to have had some success looking to north america and russia for hardy plants (rather than sunny south europe). So what part of the world should I look to for comparable climate? The northeast of US/Canada?

I have talked with US ediblelandscaping.com and Canadian http://www3.sympatico.ca I have also looked at German http://www.palmapalmetto.com Anyone with experience with any of these? Importing is going to be expensive, some paper work and time consuming (2017 season) so I am hoping to avoid poor choices.

Regards
Knut