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$7 fig trees for spring/summer delivery, around 150+ varieties

Proverbs 22:1 " A GOOD name is rather to be chosen than great riches and loving favor rather than silver and gold". James W Sperman it is time to clear your name and make things right among the good people that trusted you to make good on your deal that you offered to us, at the very least give an update. Your name is the very first gift your parents gave you when you entered this world and you have a chance to clear your name by making things right with the good hearted people on this forum. If I were you I would start by shipping the very first order that was placed today and stop taking new money, work your way out of this hole and get your name back
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If you feel you were scammed, file a complaint here:

https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

I was urged to file a complaint online at this web address and stop James from taking more people's money.
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Does anyone personally know James, that can pay him a visit to see what's going on? No delivery, no updates, no response to PMs/emails, and now people are reporting of not getting refunds. 
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Yes James should be responding, no one disputes that...but we (the people who purchased) should have all known there would be no refunds up front. The only thing that sickens me is asking for a refund when you should know full well that it's not possible or right. If everyone does this it's obvious the whole system would fall apart. But hey, long as it doesn't affect you?
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I'm sure by this time he is facing legal problems, and is going to need all the money he can get. He could face felony charges. Depends how many have complained. I was a supporter but now feel he must be shut down. Fig trees for sale now are for October 2017 delivery.
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Yes James should be responding, no one disputes that...but we (the people who purchased) should have all known there would be no refunds up front. The only thing that sickens me is asking for a refund when you should know full well that it's not possible or right. If everyone does this it's obvious the whole system would fall apart. But hey, long as it doesn't affect you?


I'm confused, is James running a charity or a business?? Should people still give him money on a hope he is going to start sending orders from late 2015??

Folks, file a complaint and stop this madness:

https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

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Um, it's not possible or right to ask for a refund for a product one paid for and haven't received as promised? Since when? James certainly isn't running a charity or asking for donations. He is running a business. 

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Originally Posted by droshi
Yes James should be responding, no one disputes that...but we (the people who purchased) should have all known there would be no refunds up front. The only thing that sickens me is asking for a refund when you should know full well that it's not possible or right. If everyone does this it's obvious the whole system would fall apart. But hey, long as it doesn't affect you?
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Originally Posted by M_Engr
Um, it's not possible or right to ask for a refund for a product one paid for and haven't received as promised? Since when? James certainly isn't running a charity or asking for donations. He is running a business. 



No, he asked for startup capital for this business venture. Much different. Of course it's not a charity (why people say this is beyond me), but I guess the problem is that many didn't understand the risk they were taking.

Same things happened with the first failed kickstarter ventures. But no one calls kickstarter a charity and many ship dates have been missed with eventual successful project completion.

Problem is that there's not someone in the middle like kickstarter to make the process go smooth, or when the money gets lost for people to accept it. Yes he should have just put the project on kickstarter and charged $15 per tree and not given any refunds...it may have led to better project success chances. Hindsight being 20/20.

Then again the project could fail no matter how much capital he has or gets.

My advice to everyone asking for a refund is to stay far away from kickstarter or any future project which promises to operate exactly the same way because you will likely be disappointed.
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That's an interesting point of view.  By the way, I have some nice property in Florida that I'll sell you for cheap if you would like to contribute some startup capital for my business.

Greenfin even mentioned that he would issue refunds on any trees that didn't ship by July.


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Originally Posted by GreenFin

If any of the trees you order aren’t ready by July, perhaps because of slow growth or excessive demand, I’ll ship the ones that are ready and give you the choice to either get a refund on the others or to wait and receive them whenever they're ready.
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Originally Posted by cponzi
That's an interesting point of view.  By the way, I have some nice property in Florida that I'll sell you for cheap if you would like to contribute some startup capital for my business.

Greenfin even mentioned that he would issue refunds on any trees that didn't ship by July.




No, that's the beauty, I don't like that business proposition (with no price or size land attached). But if I did and gave you money, I wouldn't ask for it back and complain because I would know it was a long shot. Hey maybe if your swampland was 100+ acres for $50 I may be interested. Just know what you're buying for how much is the key. I'd also be visiting the land and bring my fan boat. Then again I'm reasonably sure by "nice property in Florida" you mean swampland...if not and it's a deliberate attempt to mislead then yeah.

I don't think the $7 rare fig proposition is a bad deal, it's just a risky one. Deliberate misleading can be fraud, but in the case of our figs I don't feel that's the case. A risky pre-order endeavor sure. But who wouldn't have risked $7-15 on some very rare fig trees? At least that's how I looked at it and I do recognize that is just my opinion and perception.

If buyers thought it was a guarantee or there was no risk, then I'm not sure what to say. I'm just voicing my opinion that it was clear to me as a buyer.
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Originally Posted by droshi
Yes James should be responding, no one disputes that...but we (the people who purchased) should have all known there would be no refunds up front. The only thing that sickens me is asking for a refund when you should know full well that it's not possible or right. If everyone does this it's obvious the whole system would fall apart. But hey, long as it doesn't affect you?


There is evidence in this thread that anyone who asked for a refund was getting one, back when.  This was used as an argument that "everything was fine" since you could always ask for a refund at any time.  This has led to an assumption that refunds were allowed, and honored by James simply by asking.  If that is not the case then it would be great if James would say so.

"If you ask for a refund you won't get it."

I don't think James wants to say that, but until he does, the assumption will continue that he will give refunds to anyone who doesn't want to wait any longer.
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Originally Posted by adipose


There is evidence in this thread that anyone who asked for a refund was getting one, back when.  This was used as an argument that "everything was fine" since you could always ask for a refund at any time.  This has led to an assumption that refunds were allowed, and honored by James simply by asking.  If that is not the case then it would be great if James would say so.

"If you ask for a refund you won't get it."

I don't think James wants to say that, but until he does, the assumption will continue that he will give refunds to anyone who doesn't want to wait any longer.


I agree it should be clear. Initially when I paid, it was clear to me that no refunds were possible. That he even gave any is a gesture of more than goodwill since it was reasonably known you shouldn't be getting them. He also mentioned he must eat the PayPal fees for those that are beyond the PayPal return window, he's just sending you money back not a "refund."

Obviously if you just pay today, you can get your money back within the normal PayPal return window, I'm mostly talking about any payments that have gone well beyond that window.

Since we are just speculating on what happened, I'll just guess that all the money went into fig trees and infrastructure as we had agreed, and now he has run out of money to refund people so it has to stop. New orders again are always protected by PayPal, even if James withdraws all the money and has spent it, PayPal will eat that cost. But old orders we know should have the money already long spent. So far we have only gotten pictures for our money, which surprisingly is actually something.
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Porca Miseria (aka., James)  ...
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I cant believe you are trying to convince buyers that the seller has no obligation to refund money on goods not delivered.  I have more respect for the outright cheerleaders than this BS logic.  HE offered the product and HE offered to give refunds.  I wish I lived in your world.  How's the weather there?

Oh, by the way.  Lets hear from all the cheerleaders about droshi not being legit because he just showed up 2 days ago and has 9 posts!  Maybe it's an alias for James?
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Originally Posted by bamafig
I cant believe you are trying to convince buyers that the seller has no obligation to refund money on goods not delivered.  I have more respect for the outright cheerleaders than this BS logic.  HE offered the product and HE offered to give refunds.  I wish I lived in your world.  How's the weather there?

Oh, by the way.  Lets hear from all the cheerleaders about droshi not being legit because he just showed up 2 days ago and has 9 posts!  Maybe it's an alias for James?


I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, and I wouldn't suggest anyone sign up now. I think he should have closed sign ups a while ago. This error combined with poor communication are his main faults.

He doesn't have obligation to refund, he has an obligation to deliver on the product.

Weather here is great, I'm in NC. I only showed up now to post my opinion as a buyer, whoever you think I am I don't really care, but with the internet these days any admin of forums can tell my IP address is nothing like Jame's. Why do things get so hostile around here when people express their opinions and turn into personal attacks? No wonder this thread has had several people want to leave the forums and delete their posts. :(

I like figs and all, but not as much as many of you apparently.
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Droshi, you are just the latest poster to be attacked due to people's frustration over this whole sad situation.

Why people feel they can be hateful to strangers who don't agree lock step with their opinion is a mystery to me.

Anyone with any conscience will eventually be ashamed for their behavior. Please try not to take it personally.
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Originally Posted by droshi
Yes James should be responding, no one disputes that...but we (the people who purchased) should have all known there would be no refunds up front. The only thing that sickens me is asking for a refund when you should know full well that it's not possible or right. If everyone does this it's obvious the whole system would fall apart. But hey, long as it doesn't affect you?


Serious question: At what point in time or event is it apparent that the system has already fallen apart?


~billy
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Originally Posted by KyFig
Droshi, you are just the latest poster to be attacked due to people's frustration over this whole sad situation. Why people feel they can be hateful to strangers who don't agree lock step with their opinion is a mystery to me. Anyone with any conscience will eventually be ashamed for their behavior. Please try not to take it personally.


Thanks will keep in mind.

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Originally Posted by FigaroNewton
Serious question: At what point in time or event is it apparent that the system has already fallen apart?


~billy


Different for everyone, it's apparent that some have already given up and think it to be a failed project. Maybe it has failed for them no matter what happens from this point.

But since you quoted me I'll give my own perspective. Once James says he's thrown in the towel than I'll give up hope of ever getting plants. Otherwise even if it's 5 years from now I think he will try to deliver.

The interesting thing would be if he does eventually deliver, what will everyone say? Yeah it was a wait, but worth it? No never give anyone money again for such a cheap plant and long wait? I think everyone is different in what they care about.

The concerning theme throughout the thread hasn't been as much from buyers who have voiced concerns (and many valid ones), but rather what I perceive to be competitors or even hobbyists who don't want the project to succeed for a variety of reasons. But hey I could be wrong, just my impression.
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Once James says he's thrown in the towel...


I guess the question is, if you never hear from James again, at what point will you draw the same conclusion?
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Originally Posted by adipose


I guess the question is, if you never hear from James again, at what point will you draw the same conclusion?


Even though it seems likely that I'll be ridiculed for my optimism or naivety, I'll still respond.

About 6 months without any update I'd be pretty suspect and a year without any update and I'd lose hope.

I realize that this guy doesn't live in the tropics, and his growing season even with heated greenhouses in Kansas is pretty short. This is why season after season goes by with some progress but not as much as everyone seems to hope. And while he's probably working himself to death for our benefit, he doesn't have a cheap labor force to rely on.

Having said all that...I doubt it changes anyone's opinion on the matter...
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And while he's probably working himself to death for our benefit, That would be cool.
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Originally Posted by hakkamike
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And while he's probably working himself to death for our benefit,
That would be cool.


Guess I would have used a different choice of words than you.

If he did pass away for any reason I would feel pretty bad, especially if it was on account of this thread or the pressure to get some trees produced.

While it remains to be seen if he delivers...either way it's obvious that a lot more work went into this project than he expected. This was all I meant by my original statement along with pointing out that at this price point it's not like he can hire a work force to make it go faster (if that would even help in his climate).
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James has time to create, edit and post videos for YouTube but not send an update to customers? I am glad I wasn't a customer but this is clearly a shady proposition.

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There may have been a few here already that have croaked or will while waiting.
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Originally Posted by bobkelley1


If James refunds my wife's money, then peace be upon him, and I will let the rest of you fight your own fights, and I will never post here again. If he chooses to believe his is safe because the web will shield him he might well be shocked.




I wonder what happened to Mr. Strongarm and his lovely Thai wife. His deadline has come and passed, did he pay James a visit like he implied? Is GreenFin swimming' wit the fishes now?

But seriously, out of all this banter, I wonder why people that live close to him don't cruise on over and "check in"?
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