These ones were soft and spongy, you could easily put your finger through it... don't expect to see Wasps flying all around you when you cut the capri fig, they will emerge so slowly from in between flowers...you'll see few here in the pics, last 2 pics have few... the last one if you see, Bottom Left side on the cut part... and the one before last pic... Top Left side of the cut fig has one .

@donpaid, as to your last question: Breeding experiment sounds like a nice project. You got anything in mind? I have few things going on the side...

Aaron,

Thank you for showing those pictures of the Glendale Church Caprifig.
On average circumstances Profichi are still through the ripening process and wasps not yet ready to hatch.
This should happen approx in a month time, that's what I expect from the majority of Caprifigs around here.

However if certain branches of the tree are over exposed, getting direct sun radiation, and the ambient temperatures go beyond 35ºC (95ºF) through consecutive days... with low humidity,.. the heat may easily cook the larvae/insects inside the galls and the figs may drop from the tree.

Your pictures show Profichi for some reason ripening ahead of time.
The gall translucid capsules do show a dark creature inside indicating that wasps are there, also figs display a large set of male flowers which means plenty of pollen.

Are there any receptive Smyrna or Common figs ?  ..about size of an index nail ? If you have some you could try and get several of those softer caprifigs on a string and place them on a branch under the shade of the leaves.

Francisco

Aaron,

I have two large trees of an unknown San Pedro variety. For some reason, the main crop rarely gets pollinated; so it's nice to have delicious brebas in early summer, but a little disappointing to see the main crops never reach an edible, jelly-like state.

This year I wanted to try and hang some caprifigs in the trees like they do in Turkey and I'm sure other parts of the world, to see if I can get more main crops to ripen. Also, I want to try and save some seeds from those pollinated mains and see what happens. The caprifig I found has awesome prominent red/orange stems. Would be interesting to see what comes from a green/yellow fig pollinated by a dark variety with red stems.

Are you conducting any experiments/fig projects as well?

-Daniele

Any fruit on any stressed tree is a big energy drain... 

-Thanks Francisco,Unless this phenomenon is strictly due to the mother tree's settings, location, orientation to the sun and overall environment. I'm wondering if this is a variety of capri that produces wasps for a very long lasting season, if so, this could be a very valuable variety to have as a pollinator for any Smyrna, San Pedro or even common fig.

I threw the cut capri figs into the bucket of the Capri from church that I had pulled from the mother tree (picture in post #1) and I'm sure there are a lot of wasps that will emerge from those cut figs, If they make it and find the baby figs that are forming on the freshly rooted trees then they will survive I guess, otherwise next year for sure...I have very few baby figs flowering , they are all of the January-February rooting, but there are few figs developing here and there.
  
 

-Daniele, I have a pollination project developing but I am not in liberty of discussing it at this time... too early, also it's going to require Copywriting.

    Aaron,

Profichi, I am aware of,  do ripen either by mid June or mid July but never liberate wasps for more than a period of  over 3 or 4 weeks (effectively 3 weeks is the average).. Favorable climate, a moderately warm Spring , frequent irrigation, etc may promote earlier ripening on that Caprifig... and on ground trees, their roots occasionally find ample supplies of hidden,  good  nutrients, boosting its development.

Let me show you on a couple of pictures how a particular Profichi looks like now, in my environment. It is still 'green' unripe, very hard on touch,  the insects still through their metamorphosis, and the male flowers too stiff and not yet letting any pollen out. It makes sense to say that it still needs an extra month or so to be ready.

As soon as it becomes 'spongy' a good sign of being  ripe, then, time to pick them up from the tree and hang them on the receptive figs

Francisco

Is there any way to tell if this is a persistent caprifig or not?

Francisco, 
do you think this is abnormal for the tree to behave like this or we tapped into a new type of Capri fig that provides longer season of wasps?

Aaron,

All books, reports, writings, papers from many authors from the last quarter of the 19th century up to now always relate the ripening of the pollinating Caprifig (Profichi) to the receptiveness of the Smyrna, Common and San Pedro (main crop) figs.
This date, with slight variations, is referred as the 16th of June on every year. I believe Nature decided this way, which makes good sense, once as wasps leave the wild fig carrying the pollen, there will be many female fruit (caducous) ready and anxious to get it. On some years my potted Profichi may start sending out wasps around the 10th of June

So, it would not be normal for your Caprifig to ripe their fruit one month ahead of time..If this is so, where the poor insects go ? I am not aware of any caducous or persistent figs receptive now... May be I am wrong ... at least mine are not at all ready, be they ground or potted figs.

Bob,

Good question. I don't think so. My understanding of a Persistent Caprifig from what has been written in the forum by many members is a fruit from the Profichi crop (the first) that do not contain any wasps, just plenty of male flowers loaded with pollen. Nobody here cares for such Profichis.
I would welcome a good definition of such fig and if at all possible some pictures. I know it is there... but where ?

Francisco

Francisco,
this is puzzling indeed, all remains to see is how long is the wasp season for this tree... Would be awesome to see it outlast all the other capri wasp release seasons, :)
Then it would be an unusual find indeed.

Those do not look very appetizing.

Bob,
Thank you for your transcription and link. It will not be easy to find those figs.
The Mammoni crop, should in my view be the one to consider first as it is the only crop of the Caprifig with genuine female flowers and to take wasps from the Profichi more or less loaded with fertine pollen

Francisco

Aaron,

I refer to the pictures you have sent a while ago and ask you if you have any cutaway of those figs you say dated March 23rd.

Around that date, a genuine Caprifig will show :

A few Mamme or winter figs, near the tops of some branches,  changing color, becoming ripe, soft and letting many wasps to leave this Mamme synconium to enter into surrounding new/young Caprifigs, the Profichi, the following crop.
These Profichi will accept the wasps which will deposit their load of new eggs inside the fig's gall flowers.
At this point in time there is NO POLLEN involved

Three months after that March 20 ish (more or less one or two days) i.e. around 20th June all those Profichi shall gradually ripen issuing thousands of wasps loaded with pollen .
This is the only Caprifig crop with wasps and pollen

You have to bear in mind that over and above the genuine Caprifigs, there are many more wild figs which are not necessarily Caprifigs...To be sure of what they are, we have to cut these fruit open and inspect its inside.
I shall include a picture of a genuine Caprifig on the 20th of March 2012 to illustrate what I said above

Francisco



 

ok, Francisco, I am getting it now... this wasp business is not so simple, LOL

Francisco, the fig breeder told me a couple of months ago that the only way to determine if a caprig is persistent or not is to bag it or somehow prevent access to if from a wasp.  If it is not visited by a wasp yet it matures on the tree (doesn't drop), then it is judged to be a persistent fig.  I now have about 11 caprifig selections and hope they will all bear fruit next year at which time I will bag some of the fruit to evaluate persistence.  I will leave some without bags so that I can better determine dropping/maturity, etc.

OK Harvey
I see what you mean. This 'eye blinding' exercise shall be made on the first Caprifig crop (Profichi) ?
Please clarify.
There are many wild figs around here some Caprifigs other not. On a number of them there seems to exist certain varieties which look like good pollinators but once inspected inside,  they show an empty synconium, no gall flowers but plenty of male flowers with pollen..farmers discard these figs for lack of wasps to convey the pollen to the female trees.

When there was the mentioning of viable seeds from Caprifigs I thought of the Mammoni, the only crop with female flowers eventually pollinated by wasps when they moving in after leaving the previous crop (Profichi) and this to happen sometime during the month of July or August for late Profichi

Francisco

Sorry, yes, I should have said, the persistence should be evaluated on the profichi crop.

Thanks!  Please let us know.  Aaron, are you game to ask the church people if they'll let you try the same thing as Harvey's doing?

Francisco,
regarding this tree being off a month or so... would the early wasp release benefit surrounding local breba crops of any type of bifera figs? either Common, San Pedro or Smyrna?

This Church Capri is a confused one for sure... but I will follow further with her and see how long her wasp season lasts, this is an important issue to me ...
 

Bob, what do you want me to do exactly? I have full access to the tree, not to worry, just tell me when and what to do.

OK guys, shell I remove the post #38 in order to concentrate only on the Church Capri Tree, so, we don't get confused with the Beverly Hills Capri that does NOT produce wasps? Because that one has a different dates involved with Mamme and Profichi than the Church Capri.

Aaron,

My understanding is that brebas (any brebas) will not accept, nor need waps. They are already ripe or about to be at that time .

Regarding your post #38, pls keep all your records.. My big question on this post  relates to the development of the figs shown at that date (March 23rd)
The smaller and last pic on this post, shows:

-That those 'green' figs are excessively large to be Profichi, which would be smaller, glossy and 'solid' !
-Mamme (winter figs) at that date do not sport those colors nor shape neither appear on a similar association..... they look some other wild fig , hollow, not a Caprifig.

A cutaway of one of those fruits would be required to bring some light on the subject.

Francisco

Francisco, I think you are taking about the tree in this thread..Do I have a Caprifig?

Well, first of all I'm not going to tell you what to do but I will, with the help of Harvey and Francisco, dream and scheme and enlist your help.  The overall purpose is to find as many persistant caprifigs as possible to use in breeding and see what characteristics each brings to the table.  Your 'Mission', should you choose to accept it, is to

1. Find out if any caprifig you meet is persistent or not
2. Bring some wasp bearing caprifigs to the BevHills caprifig tree to see if it can start producing wasps on its own.
3. Mail me cuttings (at the right time) and wasp laden caprifigs (at the right time) until I have my own colony of wasp bearing caprifig trees.

I am prepared to help with expenses for 1 & 2 and reward you handsomely for #3, of course   :)

I don't think there needs to be much secrecy here for what I plan to do.  If 1000 of us did exactly the same thing we'd all get different results.  That's the nature of genetics.  Harvey may have more sophisticated stuff up his sleeve   :)

Now if any of you have friends with a genetics lab it would be great to have them develop a non-destructive test for the heterozygous Pp seeds.  That would save a lot of time!

For step 1, Harvey's the expert there.  You'd have to cover a few of the tiny profichi with a plastic or organza bag to see if they drop when not entered by wasps.  Harvey, Francisco, we'll need you to fill in the details.

Francisco, is it possible that Aaron's climate may have more variability than yours and that would cause some variation in times of 'off-wasping' (like off-gassing  :- ) Or wasp emergence  between different cultivars of caprifigs?

I'm would guess that a cooler climate than yours would have later wasp emergence, wouldn't it?  And a warmer climate might have emergence sooner?