Coll de Dame varieties

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mfehmi

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Posts: 94

Posted 1474930235	Reply with quote #1

Those anyone could tell me which in your opinion are the best varieties of coll de dame figs? I heard a lot of good things about Coll de dame Grise. One variety that looks good, but it's very expensive is Coll de dame roja, did anyone tried that one? __________________ Wish list: Sbayi, Khurtmani, Black Madeira, Figo Preto, Galicia Negra, RdB

pitangadiego

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Posted 1474948937	Reply with quote #2

Col de Dame is a great fig. Do not know the rest by experience. __________________ Encanto Farms Nursery http://encantofarms.com http://figs4fun.com http://webebananas.com "pitangadiego" everywhere

Bluemalibu

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Posts: 230

Posted 1474949478	Reply with quote #3

To my taste, CdD-Blanc was much more intensely flavored than CdD-Gris. (Gris instead of Grise because the fig neck is grey, not the gal). I have Roja growing as well, but it has yet to fruit. It is reputed to be every bit as good as Blanc, but indeed it will cost you a pretty penny to add it to the collection. __________________ Ebay: Bluemalibu NorCal, 9B - Fig Heaven. No fog, no snow; just lots of sunshine!

mfehmi

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Posts: 94

Posted 1474974195	Reply with quote #4

Quote: Originally Posted by Bluemalibu To my taste, CdD-Blanc was much more intensely flavored than CdD-Gris. (Gris instead of Grise because the fig neck is grey, not the gal). I have Roja growing as well, but it has yet to fruit. It is reputed to be every bit as good as Blanc, but indeed it will cost you a pretty penny to add it to the collection. I've seen the two names, Grise and Gris and Indon't know which is the right one. Grise is the french for gray and Gris is gray in spanish, but as I understand this variety is French, so that adds to my confusion. On the other hand CdD Roja is Spanish fig tree and Roja means red in spanish. But moving foward of the confusing names, thanks for your imput about the CdD Gris and Blanc. I will consider CdD Blanc. I wish you have already tasted CdD Roja already. __________________ Wish list: Sbayi, Khurtmani, Black Madeira, Figo Preto, Galicia Negra, RdB

rafaelissimmo

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Posts: 1,473

Posted 1474974996	Reply with quote #5

A very touchy Frenchman appeared on the other forum (he has not been seen since) to announce that the proper waay to say it is Grise. There is no Spanish version so you need not trouble yourself with any confusion. I grow 5 different Col de Dames and I do not see much difference. There may be one or two from Mallorca that are radically different from the others, that is where the unusual ones are from. My personal favorite is CdD Blanca-Negra, which matures a bit earlier than the others. __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

mfehmi

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Posts: 94

Posted 1474980028	Reply with quote #6

Quote: Originally Posted by rafaelissimmo A very touchy Frenchman appeared on the other forum (he has not been seen since) to announce that the proper waay to say it is Grise. There is no Spanish version so you need not trouble yourself with any confusion. I grow 5 different Col de Dames and I do not see much difference. There may be one or two from Mallorca that are radically different from the others, that is where the unusual ones are from. My personal favorite is CdD Blanca-Negra, which matures a bit earlier than the others. Thanks for the aclarations regarding the name. Could you tell is which varieties of CdD are you growing? __________________ Wish list: Sbayi, Khurtmani, Black Madeira, Figo Preto, Galicia Negra, RdB

Sas

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Posts: 1,363

Posted 1475008660	Reply with quote #7

In the French language Le Col is used as a masculine and not La Col as a feminin name. Therefore when calling the color of those figs, you are referring to le Col. The names would be Gris, Blanc or Noir without the (e) at the end. You don't say Col de Dame Blanche. The same name is used in Spanish as Col de Signora. Roja would be similar to Gris. I am currently growing all three in ground and so far the most productive is the Blanc (UCD).The most vigorous grower is the Gris. I agree with Blue that the Blanc (UCD) is currently my preferred of all three and perhaps of my entire collection. There's another version of Blanc (Baud) that I'm finding to be hard to get to produce in pots. My observation far is that this variety (any Color) needs several years before you get good results and needs lots of heat in order to ripen its fruit. It's a late variety. __________________ Sas from North Austin TX Zone 8B Wish list: Becane

mfehmi

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Posts: 94

Posted 1475016373	Reply with quote #8

Quote: Originally Posted by Sas I am currently growing all three in ground and so far the most productive is the Blanc (UCD).The most vigorous grower is the Gris. I agree with Blue that the Blanc (UCD) is currently my preferred of all three and perhaps of my entire collection. My observation far is that this variety (any Color) needs several years before you get good results and needs lots of heat in order to ripen its fruit. It's a late variety. It seems that CdD Blanc is getting more points. Thanks for sharing that. How many years do you think until they produce good quality figs? For me heat it's not a problem, I got heat here all year long. __________________ Wish list: Sbayi, Khurtmani, Black Madeira, Figo Preto, Galicia Negra, RdB

Sas

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Posted 1475018522	Reply with quote #9

I would give it at least seven years. The soil will make a huge difference. I've got my Col de Dame Blanc (UCD) planted in clay soil and despite this, it fruited from cutting in its first year. But it is very sensitive to winter freezes. I don't have it protected so it keeps getting damaged . Tried to wrap it the previous year and I did not see any major difference. From year one, it produces at least a couple of dozen figs each year, not enough to satisfy. For me, the flavor of Col de Dame Blanc wraps the full flavor spectrum of all the best tasting fig varieties whether light or dark colored including Black Madeira in one. It's the grand finale of my fig season.. Based on one of Blue's Post(Thank You), I recently was able to find the new variety that some say was better than the Col de Dame Blanc, namely Emalyn's Purple. Time will tell. It is very important to remember that the top performance of a fig in a certain location does not mean that it will perform the same way somewhere else. If you've got the heat then this is what this tree likes. My tree sits in full sun in temperatures exceeding 110 on some summer days. __________________ Sas from North Austin TX Zone 8B Wish list: Becane

Porfirio

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Posts: 103

Posted 1475019642 · Edited	Reply with quote #10

Quote: Originally Posted by mfehmi I've seen the two names, Grise and Gris and Indon't know which is the right one. Grise is the french for gray and Gris is gray in spanish, but as I understand this variety is French, so that adds to my confusion. On the other hand CdD Roja is Spanish fig tree and Roja means red in spanish. But moving foward of the confusing names, thanks for your imput about the CdD Gris and Blanc. I will consider CdD Blanc. I wish you have already tasted CdD Roja already. Hi mfehmi I dont have col-de dame but in french grise is female gender and gris is for male.So bought words exist in french. Hope it helps. __________________ Rio Zone 5 Montreal Canada

mfehmi

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Posts: 94

Posted 1475020159	Reply with quote #11

Quote: Originally Posted by Sas I would give it at least seven years. The soil will make a huge difference. I've got my Col de Dame Blanc (UCD) planted in clay soil and despite this, it fruited from cutting in its first year. But it is very sensitive to winter freezes. I don't have it protected so it keeps getting damaged . Tried to wrap it the previous year and I did not see any major difference. From year one, it produces at least a couple of dozen figs each year, not enough to satisfy. For me, the flavor of Col de Dame Blanc wraps the full flavor spectrum of all the best tasting fig varieties whether light or dark colored including Black Madeira in one. It's the grand finale of my fig season.. Based on one of Blue's Post(Thank You), I recently was able to find the new variety that some say was better than the Col de Dame Blanc, namely Emalyn's Purple. Time will tell. It is very important to remember that the top performance of a fig in a certain location does not mean that it will perform the same way somewhere else. If you've got the heat then this is what this tree likes. My tree sits in full sun in temperatures exceeding 110 on some summer days. Very good information!!!! And I have heat here, my summers are close to 100, but the main diference with Texas is that I don't have winter here. The coldest it gets is 75 on very few nights. So maybe the extra heat in the winter months could help the tree even more. I will try it and I hope to report about that in the near future. __________________ Wish list: Sbayi, Khurtmani, Black Madeira, Figo Preto, Galicia Negra, RdB

mfehmi

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Posts: 94

Posted 1475020211	Reply with quote #12

Quote: Originally Posted by Porfirio Hi mfehmi I dont have col-de dame but in french grise is female gender and gris is for male.So bought words exist in french. Hope it helps. Thanks for the info!! __________________ Wish list: Sbayi, Khurtmani, Black Madeira, Figo Preto, Galicia Negra, RdB

Sas

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Posted 1475020688	Reply with quote #13

FYI, when it comes to flavor, the closest fig to Col de Dame I found, is the store bought Panache from California. My Panache in pot has not produced a single fig in four years. __________________ Sas from North Austin TX Zone 8B Wish list: Becane

Sas

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Posted 1475021327	Reply with quote #14

For comparison purposes the first picture is of Col de Dame Blanc, the second Noir and the third Gris. They are all almost the same age. You could see the difference in size between the Gris and the Blanc or Noir. These fall pictures of the trees were taken earlier today. Attached Images image.jpeg (476.39 KB, 74 views) image.jpeg (502.24 KB, 71 views) image.jpeg (403.24 KB, 74 views) __________________ Sas from North Austin TX Zone 8B Wish list: Becane

brianm

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Posts: 971

Posted 1475022159	Reply with quote #15

Sas is very accurate in his descriptions. CDDB is a full spectrum fig. It is amazing and should do well in your zone.Panache is very similar. __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra,UC Davis Black Ischia, Maltese Raven

DonCentralTexas

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Posts: 475

Posted 1475022632	Reply with quote #16

I agree. I have CdDB and CdDN, and between them, so far, I like the taste of Blanc better. Both are good though, so I don't want someone reading this to think Noir is a slacker fig. As Sas said it is the grand finale of the season. In my yard, it is second only to Preto in flavor. __________________ Don (Near Austin, TX zone 8b) If you have these for sale/trade PM me: Zingarella, Grantham's Royal, Calderona, Genovese Nero, Noir de Barbentane

electromie

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Posts: 23

Posted 1475022844	Reply with quote #17

How about Col de Dame Bordissotenca? Any review on this variety? __________________ Wishlist: Galicia Negra, Sanguinato, Maltese Beauty, LSU Red, Genovese Nero

mfehmi

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Posts: 94

Posted 1475022954	Reply with quote #18

SAS: CdD Gris is very Vigorous from what you're showing in the photos. __________________ Wish list: Sbayi, Khurtmani, Black Madeira, Figo Preto, Galicia Negra, RdB

Figinfever

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Posts: 245

Posted 1475024701	Reply with quote #19

Thank you mfehmi for starting this thread and forum members for all the great information. Looks like CdDB or CdD Blanca/Negra is going on my list. __________________ Dan, West Central FL 9a Wishlist- Great tasting dark or light figs with deep red interiors: White Madeira, Craven's Craving, Portugal Black Madeira, Sultani, Violeta, USDA Black Ischia, Dall'Osso, CdDB or CdDB-N

mfehmi

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Posts: 94

Posted 1475026090	Reply with quote #20

A lot of great members here sharing excellent information about CdD. Thank you all guys!!! __________________ Wish list: Sbayi, Khurtmani, Black Madeira, Figo Preto, Galicia Negra, RdB

scott_ga

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Posts: 302

Posted 1475026480	Reply with quote #21

Here, CDD Blanc very bright berry taste and very resistant to rain. CDD Noir not as berry tasting, but very good, just a little different. Eye seems more open. Both very late and take a lot of heat. CDD is a little smaller than Black Madeira here and Black Madeira still the taste champ for fresh eating. CDD Noir CDD Blanc 3 Black Madeira and CDD Noir __________________ Scott North Georgia Zone 7b

Figinfever

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Posts: 245

Posted 1475027049	Reply with quote #22

Quote: Originally Posted by scott_ga Here, CDD Blanc very bright berry taste and very resistant to rain. CDD Noir not as berry tasting, but very good, just a little different. Eye seems more open. Both very late and take a lot of heat. CDD is a little smaller than Black Madeira here and Black Madeira still the taste champ for fresh eating. CDD Noir CDD Blanc 3 Black Madeira and CDD Noir Thanks for the pics. CDD Blanc interior looks dark crimson and Noir looks lighter red to my eyes. Is the color true to life or is it the lighting? __________________ Dan, West Central FL 9a Wishlist- Great tasting dark or light figs with deep red interiors: White Madeira, Craven's Craving, Portugal Black Madeira, Sultani, Violeta, USDA Black Ischia, Dall'Osso, CdDB or CdDB-N

Bluemalibu

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Posted 1475035293	Reply with quote #23

Quote: Originally Posted by Sas FYI, when it comes to flavor, the closest fig to Col de Dame I found, is the store bought Panache from California. Great assessment, Sas... At the UCD Fig Tasting last month, there was a placard next to the Panache offering, which stated that all of their research to date has led to them to believe that Panache is a Rimada within the CdD family. __________________ Ebay: Bluemalibu NorCal, 9B - Fig Heaven. No fog, no snow; just lots of sunshine!

jdsfrance

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Posts: 2,591

Posted 1475049739	Reply with quote #24

Hi, As for using feminine or masculine, just lets use a reference for that: Baud . He uses masculine so Col de dame Blanc Col de dame Noir Col de dame Gris Panaché is from the strain Bourjassotte. You could probably try to grow bourjassotte noir. __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

tinyfish

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Posts: 223

Posted 1475052283	Reply with quote #25

Quote: Originally Posted by Sas For comparison purposes the first picture is of Col de Dame Blanc, the second Noir and the third Gris. They are all almost the same age. You could see the difference in size between the Gris and the Blanc or Noir. These fall pictures of the trees were taken earlier today. What a good size and shape to the Gris.

DevIsgro

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Posts: 637

Posted 1475064713	Reply with quote #26

I saw panache mentioned as Bourjasotte Grise Panache once __________________ Currently growing 50-60 varieties, this season's cuttings dependant. Hopefully I'll get to taste a few more this year...

rayrose

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Posts: 76

Posted 1475068044	Reply with quote #27

Is the Spanish fig Cuello de Dama Blanco the same as Col de Dame Blanc? __________________ Ray zone 8 Columbia, SC

Stormy

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Posts: 71

Posted 1475105455	Reply with quote #28

When referring to a feminin noun, the adjective should be put in feminin too, so the only grammitically correct way to put is a Col de Dame Noire, respective Blanche and Grise because fig in french is feminin. You say "une figue". On the other hand, IF the color refers to the neck (le col), which is masculin, you omit the e at the end of the words. But I doubt it refers to the neck alone. About the colors of that strain of figs, I find it very hard to describe the right color. For instance, the CDD I bought was labeled as a black one. When I just bought it, there was a single fig on that tiny busch which had ripened at the nursery and which was very dark. The taste was very rich. Now three years later, the plant has trippled in size, it is in a pot in my greenhouse and it ripens the fruits very well each year but the color has never been as dark then when I brought it home the first time. It is more like a mixture of green and purple. In a few days I will have some more ripe fruits and I will post a picture to clarify. The taste is always very good though, it really stands out from all the rest. __________________ Stormy

Sas

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Posted 1475107476	Reply with quote #29

According to Baud Col de Dame has the following synonyms. Col de Dame Blanc = Col de Signora, Fraga. Col de Dame Noir = Col de Signora. Col de Dame Gris = Col de Signora. So Cuello de Dama Blanco is a translation from French into Spanish perhaps, but there is some local description in Spain of a fig that might not be what Baud had in mind. This is where the origin of the fig matters. I agree with JD that when discussing the names of these figs Baud should be the reference. __________________ Sas from North Austin TX Zone 8B Wish list: Becane

Sas

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Posted 1475107832	Reply with quote #30

Quote: Originally Posted by Bluemalibu Great assessment, Sas... At the UCD Fig Tasting last month, there was a placard next to the Panache offering, which stated that all of their research to date has led to them to believe that Panache is a Rimada within the CdD family. This is some great info! Thank You. __________________ Sas from North Austin TX Zone 8B Wish list: Becane

Figgyme

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Posted 1475108147	Reply with quote #31

In Mallorca, the owner of fig orchard suggest Coll De Dama Blanca. He grow several varieties, at least 20, for making jam or fresh products. These are pictures from Mallorca orchard.

Sas

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Posted 1475108306	Reply with quote #32

Stormy, "It is more like a mixture of green and purple. In a few days I will have some more ripe fruits and I will post a picture to clarify. The taste is always very good though, it really stands out from all the rest." I've seen such colors with the Bourjasotte Grise. But it would be hard to judge a very young tree. The color of the fruit might change from one season to the next depending on the health of the tree among other things. Please post some pictures when available. __________________ Sas from North Austin TX Zone 8B Wish list: Becane

Smyfigs

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Posts: 1,658

Posted 1475110098	Reply with quote #33

That is some color!!! __________________ Meg-Hardiness Zone 10a Looking for... Socorro Blk Wuhan Jolly Tiger Lamperia Preta Herschtetten St. Jean Black Ischia "The best way to show my gratitude is to accept everything, even my problems, with joy." ~ Mother Teresa "Do not pass by a man in need for you may be the hand of God to him." ~Proverbs 3:27~ "He performs wonders that cannot be fathomed, miracles that cannot be counted." ~Job 5:4

Stormy

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Posts: 71

Posted 1475110980	Reply with quote #34

" I've seen such colors with the Bourjasotte Grise. But it would be hard to judge a very young tree. The color of the fruit might change from one season to the next depending on the health of the tree among other things. Please post some pictures when available. I will in a few days, the color is much like the third picture from Mallorca. __________________ Stormy

rayrose

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Posts: 76

Posted 1475155460	Reply with quote #35

This is the description from Baud. IGUIER - Ficus carica COL of white lady Fig Tree Col of Dame white: Fig of fall synonyms: Col of Signora, Fraga. Area of fruiting culture: Unifère very late to thick skin, of excellent quality in taste. Fruit of 50 to 60 grams to flesh dark red. Do differs from other neck of lady that by the color of the epidermis. Development of the important tree, of 5 to 8 meters in diameter for 3.5 to 5 meters in height according to the importance of interventions in size. Cultivation area south area, everywhere where the rear-seasons are warm and ensolleillées. I checked the description and photographs from a Spanish Nursery that sells Cuella and they are not the same fig. So I've answered my own question. __________________ Ray zone 8 Columbia, SC

rafaelissimmo

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Posted 1475157935 · Edited	Reply with quote #36

I hate to tell people they are totally wrong but on this thread two statements are TOTALLY WRONG so here it goes: 1. Panachee is not in the Col de Dame family. It is not a Coll' de Dama Rimada, and I don't care what any placards said. Panachee is a variegated version of the Bordissota/Bourjasotte/Brogiotto cultivar, hence Panachee in spanish is also known as Bordossot Blanca Rimada. In order to be part of the Col de Dame family a fig must have the particular neck and Panachee does not. You do not need to be an expert or a geneticist to see this. This should also put to rest the rumor that Bourjasotte Grise has anything to do with Col de Dame. It does not. And for the record I do grow both Panachee and Coll' de Dama Rimada (MP) for several seasons so I also have personal observation on this. 2. Cuello de Dama in Spanish is occasionally used as a synonym for Col de Dame but let us remember that the Col de Dame variety is native to Catalunia and Mallorca, and not other regions of Spain. There, it is known in the Catalan language as Coll' de Dama and sometimes Coll' de Senyora. Cuello de Dama is an entirely different variety of fig native to the Extremadura region, near Badajoz. It is often used for dried figs and is entirely inferior to Col de Dame, which is one of the most superior figs grown in the world. __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

Sas

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Posted 1475161719	Reply with quote #37

Rafael, perhaps I started this conversation by saying that the Panache was the closest in taste to the Col de Dame Blanc. I was making an observation based on personal experience when it comes to taste and not scientific research. My background as a scientist (not figs) tells me that research by academics is much more accurate than simple observation especially if genetic tests were performed. So if a placard at the UCD fig tasting event said that "all of their research to date has led to them to believe that Panache is a Rimada within the CdD family", then I presume that it must be based on some lab research, which I take more seriously than my taste buds or what a fig looks like. The only way that this could be wrong is that if they placed the wrong placard next to the Panache. In the end many fig varieties are closely related, but some more than others. __________________ Sas from North Austin TX Zone 8B Wish list: Becane

Jsacadura

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Posts: 346

Posted 1475166531	Reply with quote #38

Ray, >>Is the Spanish fig Cuello de Dama Blanco the same as Col de Dame Blanc? No. As Rafael says they are 2 different varieties and Cuello de Dama Blanca (native to Extremadura) is regarded as an inferior variety compared to Coll de Dama Blanca (from Cataluña and Mallorca) Here's Coll de Dama Blanca in Pon's Book: And the same fig in a Mallorca's figs book: Now, Cuello de Dama Blanca in the book "Variedades de Higuera" - a spanish book with several identified varieties: In Spain, they name "Cuello de Dama Blanca" to a few slightly different figs according to the spanish region they are grown. A spanish friend has this variety from Extremadura. Here's are a couple of photos of his figs: __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

rafaelissimmo

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Posted 1475174856	Reply with quote #39

Sas thank you for the reply, I actually love the taste of Panachee, it is an excellent fig, both lemony and berry like, but the Col de dame texture is clearly different, it is berry like but with a pasty texture, low on seeds and crunch. __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

Stormy

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Posts: 71

Posted 1475183552 · Edited	Reply with quote #40

Hey all, as promised a few pics of my Col de Dame. In a few days I will have perfectly ripe figs again, with pics also off course. Indeed the best tasting fig in my collection. I picked a nice ripe one today and added the pics here below. The more I read about the CDD, especially since this thread, the more I start to doubt that this is an actual CDD. It kind of misses the thick neck, which is so characteristic for the type. __________________ Stormy

rayrose

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Posts: 76

Posted 1475206392 · Edited	Reply with quote #41

Thanks Jaime, I was able to find similar info and pics at this Spanish nursery http://viverosvipesa.com/listado.asp?familia=higuera Ray __________________ Ray zone 8 Columbia, SC

Bluemalibu

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Posts: 230

Posted 1475263714	Reply with quote #42

Quote: Originally Posted by Sas Rafael, perhaps I started this conversation by saying that the Panache was the closest in taste to the Col de Dame Blanc. I was making an observation based on personal experience when it comes to taste and not scientific research. My background as a scientist (not figs) tells me that research by academics is much more accurate than simple observation especially if genetic tests were performed. So if a placard at the UCD fig tasting event said that "all of their research to date has led to them to believe that Panache is a Rimada within the CdD family", then I presume that it must be based on some lab research, which I take more seriously than my taste buds or what a fig looks like. We are cut from the same cloth Sas. I was speaking with UCD's lead research geneticist at the Wolfskill event, and shared figs (pictured below) that I had brought from my orchard with both he, and with Howard Garrison. Howard has over 25 years with these figs, and heads up their ficus division at Davis. As we spoke, I made the same observation as you stated above, commenting on how close Panache and CdD-Blanc tasted to me. Howard caught me totally off guard, first by telling me that the figs that I had shared were the most delicious that he has tasted; and then by directing me to the placard connecting Panache with the CdD figs. Quote: Originally Posted by rafaelissimmo I hate to tell people they are totally wrong but on this thread two statements are TOTALLY WRONG so here it goes: 1. Panachee is not in the Col de Dame family. It is not a Coll' de Dama Rimada, and I don't care what any placards said. ...You do not need to be an expert or a geneticist to see this. LOL!!! I should have known better than to think that I might drop back over here to assist fellow growers and to share information from a university's ficus researcher, without having my input to be met with another serving of vitriol. What an utter waste of my time... I was able to share over 70 lbs of cuttings last year with other enthusiasts here on the forum, without ever placing a single item up for sale. Since then, I have been blessed to have added an additional 160 or so wonderful cultivars to the orchard. Some of which are only in the hands of one or two other growers within the US. For those that have spoken with me about receiving cuttings or airlayers of these rare strains, you can contact me at OurFigs. __________________ Ebay: Bluemalibu NorCal, 9B - Fig Heaven. No fog, no snow; just lots of sunshine!

Smyfigs

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Posts: 1,658

Posted 1475286682 · Edited	Reply with quote #43

Wow, really great info everyone!! Great question Mefhemi Great photos, Stormy! Love the research, Jamie! Blue, love the details about your experience at the wolfskill meeting! I wish I could have been there (invited :-)). Maybe next time? I have not tasted CdDB but i hope to do so in the next couple of years. However, I have tasted Panache and it is sbsolutely deliscious! Its a very flavorful fig. I just bought two trees because I felt it is worth the money. I hope they fruit next year. Oh such great minds! Thanks all! I love it! __________________ Meg-Hardiness Zone 10a Looking for... Socorro Blk Wuhan Jolly Tiger Lamperia Preta Herschtetten St. Jean Black Ischia "The best way to show my gratitude is to accept everything, even my problems, with joy." ~ Mother Teresa "Do not pass by a man in need for you may be the hand of God to him." ~Proverbs 3:27~ "He performs wonders that cannot be fathomed, miracles that cannot be counted." ~Job 5:4

HarveyC

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Posts: 3,294

Posted 1475378844	Reply with quote #44

I had been communicating with John Preece, Malli, and Howard already on another matter and brought up this issue about Panache because it seems that they are quite confused about what fig Ira Condit was writing about when they decided to quote him about when Condit was writing about a chimera of Col di Signora Bianca. Col di Signora is a snynonym of Col de Dame, of course (in his book Baud includes a synonym of Col de Signora which is close). Condit himself made a great contribution to our knowledge of figs but also made many mistakes and may not have known exactly what he was writing about either since his comments did include the name Panache or, perhaps, there were different names in use at that time. Condit's comments include the description of a fruit with a pyriform shape which is fitting for the CdD types but not the fig we know as Panache. Here is a photo of the placard in question. In 2006 Malli performed some basic DNA testing of the fig collection (a group of Jon, Sue, Darcy, and myself visited him in 2008 to discuss the methods and equipment, etc., FWIW) and a copy of a research report can be found at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2860561/pdf/10709_2010_Article_9442.pdf and on page 7 it's pretty clear even with this basic testing that Col de Dame Blanc (cataloged as Col de Dame in GRIN) is not closely related to Panache, being shown separately even in the high level groups of G2 and G9. Panache and Col de Dame Blanc are certainly both great figs (as is Coll de Dama Rimada). __________________ Harvey - Correia Farms Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14 http://www.figaholics.com https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

rafaelissimmo

Registered:1335639347
Posts: 1,473

Posted 1475388528 · Edited	Reply with quote #45

Thanks Harvey for pointing out that the saintly placard is based simply enough on an erroneous quote from Condit. If Condit tried to sell you the. Brooklyn Bridge for $1 that would not make it true. It should be plainly evident to any onlooker that a pyriform fig with a neck is completely different from an oblate fig with no neck and different pulp and leaves. And as for Alan's comment, Europe is not the LSU fig field. No one has been "breeding" figs there besides mother nature. All of these mutations are naturally occurring, and as we all know, the best way to come up with a unique fig is to have a bird crap a caprified seed that becomes a common fig. I attached the relevant, erroneous section from Condit's book. For over 1,000 years the papacy lied, in writing, about its earthly empire, basing it on a writing called "the donation of Constatantine." Braver men than myself proved it a forgery. I think we can all agree Condit may have made some mistakes too. Attached Images IMG_7875.JPG (116.37 KB, 18 views) IMG_7876.JPG (55.39 KB, 13 views) __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

Sas

Registered:1350079929
Posts: 1,363

Posted 1475388562	Reply with quote #46

Wow Harvey, I need a whole weekend to make sense of this report, but one thing for sure DNA does not lie. Thanks for posting. __________________ Sas from North Austin TX Zone 8B Wish list: Becane

DevIsgro

Registered:1420826837
Posts: 637

Posted 1475411771	Reply with quote #47

Thanks for the clarification Harvey! This business of genetically testing figs is fascinating. __________________ Currently growing 50-60 varieties, this season's cuttings dependant. Hopefully I'll get to taste a few more this year...

DevIsgro

Registered:1420826837
Posts: 637

Posted 1475411771	Reply with quote #48

Thanks for the clarification Harvey! This business of genetically testing figs is fascinating. __________________ Currently growing 50-60 varieties, this season's cuttings dependant. Hopefully I'll get to taste a few more this year...

Stormy

Registered:1453914706
Posts: 71

Posted 1475425159 · Edited	Reply with quote #49

To SAS and all others, I start to think my reply is a bit off-topic. Confident about the true nature of this fig, my lovely wife bought it in a respected nursery about three years ago, I never asked myself if this could be a different type, until I joined this forum, silly me...:) When we stopped by the same nursery just yesterday, I was struck by the sheer disorder in the different types of figs that they offer. That's why I asked my wife to go back three years in time and try to remember where she picked it from. Now, at the time she came back home with just a picked fig, to let me taste it. The whole idea was if I would like it, then she would buy a tree from the same kind. I did like it, so about two weeks later, she picks up the tree, which she believes is a CDD, and brings it back home. Since I still liked the figs that come off it, I am not displeased off course, but still, wanting to know the real type of fig I am eating has becoming a bit of a challenge actually. And, I think I have found it on Calgoni. Now here are the pics from my alleged CDD. __________________ Stormy

Stormy

Registered:1453914706
Posts: 71

Posted 1475429011 · Edited	Reply with quote #50

The These pics come from their site, a striking ressemblence if you ask me. They are labeled as "Cendrosa", nice name. __________________ Stormy

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