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Encanto Farms Nursery > Topics > Common figs and pollination
 
 


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mic

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 

Hello,

I understand that Smyrna figs require pollination for their fruit to mature and that common figs do not.

However, can a common fig be pollinated? Would it improve it's eating quality? Would it make any difference if it was pollinated by a persistent caprifig or a caducous caprifig?

Thank you
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Mic ~ Australia ~ Equivalent to US Zone 10
americanfiglover

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
From my understanding that's how the breeding program work. X + common fig = new breed?

However it takes time to get the fig you want from the seeds because they can end up not being a new common fig or the fruit might not be good.
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mic

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Thank you Jarrett.

Ah, after reading your reply I realise common figs are the same as persistant figs.

So does a pollinated common fig taste better than an unpollinated one?  Or is the quality unchanged?
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Mic ~ Australia ~ Equivalent to US Zone 10
don_sanders

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
I've read that it does change the taste. One reference mentioned a nutty flavor. I don't have any wasps around here so I'll probably never taste one.
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Don - Columbus, OH. Zone 5b/6a Wish list: Rafed/Adriano's Genovese Nero, Your favorite fig.
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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
With pollination the common fig fruit size increases. This is normal for many fruits. The developing seed draws extra sugar into the fruit. Also the seed embryo develops and you are crushing and eating that seed. The embryo contains many compounds that an undeveloped seed won't like oils and proteins. That changes the taste.
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Steve in Alpine TX 7b/8a
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lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Hello Mic

Hope you not upset if I show these pics under your very interesting topic...

This a Common variety very popular in Portugal (Beb.Branca)

Here a picture showing this fig without pollination by the insect.


P1020640.jpg BBranca non pollinated.jpg 
The following pictures show the same cultivar, having been duly caprified, thus pollinated by the Blastophaga.

P1040049.JPG 

P1040050.JPG 

P1040054 - Cópia.JPG 

P1040055.JPG 

No doubt that it is a far better fruit and ...BIG!

Francisco
Portugal
sarahkt

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Francisco, gorgeous pics, thanks for sharing! This strengthens my resolve to try to get a stable wasp and caprifig set up where I live.
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Sarah from Bay Area, CA (zone: 9B)
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lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Sarah,

Thank you for your kind comments
From old readings and more recent  reporting I understand  that there are wild figs in your area and ripening their Profichi crop around a month later than  their equivalents on other warmer counties of the State. IMO and because Nature does it mostly right your edibles (Caducous - Persistent and San Pedro) will be receptive by now as well.
You could well watch what happens soon to your DK main crop.(?)  -May be some uninvited and elusive  but friendly pollinators come to your orchard and bring you a surprise.

Francisco
Portugal
sarahkt

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
A couple neighbors told me their attempts to get fruit from main crop DK or Smyrna figs failed, as recently as a couple years ago. That tells me the wasp isn't close enough, even if the caprifigs are. I'll wait and see what happens this year, but if it doesn't work, then time to try a drastic measure. :) Those pictures of with and without pollination on your figs, and others I've seen, point to its being worthwhile!
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Sarah from Bay Area, CA (zone: 9B)
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mic

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Hi Don,

I don't have the fig wasp around here either but I was thinking I might like to try to introduce them. Not for a nutty flavour though.
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Mic ~ Australia ~ Equivalent to US Zone 10
mic

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Hi Steve,

It sounds like positive changes then unless the new compounds in the seeds are significant and undesirable. Might explain the nutty flavour Don mentioned. Thanks for the info.
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Mic ~ Australia ~ Equivalent to US Zone 10
mic

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Francisco,

Ofcourse I don't mind if you post pictures here, especially ones as spectacular as these!

And they answer the question emphatically.  Thank you very much for posting them. They are more than enough to convince me to try to set up a wasp colony.

Do you know what they were pollinated with? (Caducous or Persistent caprifig?)  Or if it make any difference? (apart from the type of offspring)
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Mic ~ Australia ~ Equivalent to US Zone 10
mic

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Sarah,

I think I'm thinking along the same lines as you. First job is to find some capri fig cuttings.
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Mic ~ Australia ~ Equivalent to US Zone 10
fignutty

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Mic:

I've got the caprifigs cuttings started. I'm hoping to get a colony of wasps going in my greenhouse. Test out that nutty flavor. It might not all be good but worth a try.
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Steve in Alpine TX 7b/8a
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lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Hi Mic,

Thank you.

To your question on the type of Caprifig issuing pollinators to caprificate those figs,  I believe they were the caducous type as most in my area
Among the Caducous Caprifigs their pollen seem to give the fruit they pollinate some distinct attributes, be they weight, flavor, more or less syrup, etc..

In the early years of the XX century, Australia and South Africa having closely followed the fig developments happening in California , managed a few years later to establish in their Med. type of climate zones, quite extensive fig orchards of the Turkish Sarilop cultivar as well as the indispensable Caprifig.
The main objective was the production of large quantities of high quality dry figs.

A long established fig grower in Sothern Australia (Willabrand) has apparently patented a brand of Smyrna fig and called it 'Spanish Dessert'. I am not sure but think that on past threads in this forum some members from Australia said that on some nurseries one could buy young trees of this variety as well as Caprifigs.

Francisco
Portugal
aaa

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Hi Mic
i can send you capri cuttings. 
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bigbendfigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Steve,
Keep us posted on this experiment.  I have a few young trees.  My friend told me we have wasps, but have not seen any.  I am very interested in your results.
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Dan  zone 9A
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sarahkt

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
A generous forum member has already offered me a rooted caprifig (thanks!!!). The next step, introducing the wasp and establishing a stable colony, is outside of my experience. Anyone have success with this and can relate what worked for them?
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Sarah from Bay Area, CA (zone: 9B)
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mic

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Lampo,

That is interesting about the variation in effect. I'll keep an eye out if anyone has done some research into this.

I didn't think of it before but there are probably even more different varieties of caprifig than the other types. So, depending on how big a difference different pollen makes, then it occurs to me that finding a great caprifig variety might be just as important as finding a great "edible fruit" (female?) variety.

I haven't noticed much discussion about the best capri fig varieties, so perhaps either there isn't much difference when compared with other factors.  Or perhaps it isn't recognised yet.
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Mic ~ Australia ~ Equivalent to US Zone 10
mic

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Aaa,

Thank you for your kind offer, I would very much appreciate that.

Although I understand the chances of obtaining anything good are very low, I started trying to grow some from seeds I extracted from the dried Turkish figs I buy in the supermarket. Some have popped up and I am nursing them through the winter. I was thinking maybe one of them becomes a caprifig. But if you have a real one you could share then that would be very nice.

Shall I send a PM to exchange details etc?

Thank you
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Mic ~ Australia ~ Equivalent to US Zone 10
mic

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Steve,

You are a couple of steps ahead of me. I too would be very interested to hear of your progress and learn from your experiences so please keep us posted.
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Mic ~ Australia ~ Equivalent to US Zone 10
aaa

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
Mic
i have 3 differant types of capris,
yes pm me your details.
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lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Mic,

I would recommend reading the Caprification chapters of Gustav Eisen's book ..

'The Fig: its History, Culture, and Curing with a Descriptive Catalogue of the Known Varieties of Fig'

It's an old book (1901) but quite interesting namely on what concerns the Caprifig..Pollination.

Fig seedlings may give you :

A) Caprifigs never showing any fruit

B) Poor Caprifigs taking several years to show a few fruit

C) Better Caprifigs capable of being prolific on one or even two if its crops but failing at least one crop most of the seasons. This problem could be overcome if there are more wild figs in the area

D) Excellent Caprifigs , Caducous robust plants,  prolific on any of the mandatory 3 crops and producing great numbers of large Profichi with a lot of insects and plenty of male flowers (pollen)

E) The more elusive of all - the Persistent Caprifig generating pollen and 100% free of any insect intervention.

F) New, adible figs mostly Smyrna but rare . Already shown these on the forum sometime ago

P1050286.JPG 

This Profichi cutaway comes from a very prolific Caprifig, always showing abundant crops year round.
Note the great number of full galls and the 'sizable' bush of male flowers.
Picture taken on May10/2014, less than 2 weeks before the eclosion of the insects

Francisco
Portugal
mic

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Francisco, I'll definitely look the book up, thanks for the pointer.

Why would the Persistent caprifig (E) be a desirable type?

From reading previous threads I understand the likelihood of a poor outcomes is greater than good ones. And I think Herman or Ingevald pointed out previously that due to the choices made in Turkey to produce the dried figs, the odds are even worse for seedlings grown from dried Turkish figs. So I am not expecting anything from that route (but you never know ;)  ( http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/growing-figs-from-seeds-2471900 )

Another great photo!
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Mic ~ Australia ~ Equivalent to US Zone 10
mic

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Don,

About the nutty flavour, I might have stumbled on the reference you remembered. It says about Smyrna figs:

"These figs require pollination with caprifigs (caprification). The process of caprification is important in dried fig production, as the seeds contribute to the nutty flavour of the dried product."

The source is an informative fact sheet from our local government: http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/119501/fig-growing-nsw.pdf
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Mic ~ Australia ~ Equivalent to US Zone 10
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Mic,

The Persistent Caprifig  pollen is used on fig breeding by individuals and/or laboratories involved on creating new fig hybrids of the Common types (Persistent)..
The hybrids Conadria (common), the Desert King (San Pedro) for instance, are  man made figs  from such breeding programs.

This is also interesting reading and a good source of information on the subject:
https://archive.org/stream/caprifigscaprifi319cond#page/n0/mode/2up

Francisco
Portugal
jdsfrance

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Hi lampo,
Do you still have the link to the infos on the desert king ?
Last time I searched, I found that desert king was found growing in the 1900 in the USA and propagated from that tree. So no human action on desert king from what I have found.
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mic

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
Francisco,

Thanks for the link to Condit. Very interesting.

On pages 371-374 it claims some say caprification of common figs "injures the quality" and "decreases the sugar content", however the consensus appears to be this is not the case, especially when considering individual figs. Also the effects appear to differ significantly between varieties.

An interesting aside, it also says that Pingo de Mel is an edible caprifig.
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Mic ~ Australia ~ Equivalent to US Zone 10
pino

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Read that Pingo di mel is same as Gillette.  Gillette is also supposed to be a capri fig that is edible.
I lost my pingo di mel cuttings but now I have a 2yr old Gillette plant  so I can't compare them but next year may get to taste an edible capri fig. 
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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
If Pingo de Mel is an edible caprifig, then wouldn't that mean that Adriano, a sport of Pingo de Mel, is also an edible caprifig? Would this be verifiable by microscopic examination of the fig synconiums?
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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
I doubt Pingo de Mel is a persistent capri since I have never seen one that contains pollen.
Or it may contain very little pollen which is insufficient to perform hand-pollination...
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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mic
Hi Don,

I don't have the fig wasp around here either but I was thinking I might like to try to introduce them. Not for a nutty flavour though.


Hi mic,
What state are in?
I had believed the capri fig was not in my area in southern victoria,
But last summer, one of my figs produced fruit loaded with seeds. I do have capri figs here. A friend about 15 minutes drive away, is sure he has the wasp at his place. His neighbour has a capri fig that he was considering removing until my friend stongly suggested he not. I am hoping to get cuttings of it and a few wasp loaded fruits.
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