cyberfarmer
Registered:1293483474 Posts: 544
Posted 1424016497
· Edited
Reply with quote
#1
I found a space that I think is perfect for a row of cordoned figs. I have a row of five olive trees growing along the edge of a terrace. The embankment below the olive terrace ranges from 4 to 8 feet wide and is about a 75% slope. So, it's a long, narrow, steep strip of really good soil (decomposed granite). It is also in the frost-free portion of my property. The olive trees are already spaced 16 feet apart. So, I thought I would place one fig tree on the embankment below each olive. That would also allow the fig tree to take advantage of any water running off from the olive trees when my wife over-waters them (she know better than to water my figs). I will grow each tree on a single trunk, splitting into two main branches going in opposite directions. I think it is reasonable that the two main branches can reach out 8 feet in either direction, so 16 feet seems like pretty good spacing. I also plan to place one temporary tree in between each permanent tree, only until the permanent tree is big enough to use the space. Then, I will transplant the temporary trees to a new cordon of their own somewhere else.
I plan to plant the temporary trees in-ground in pots. That will make transplanting next year a breeze. I am also considering planting the permanent trees in pots with the bottoms cut out. My reasoning is that the pot might help protect the roots from nibbling vermin and would also give the tree a level footing on the steep slope. It would make planting easier and minimize any transplanting shock. I would position a drip line emitter directly into each pot. As the branches spread sideways, I would add more emitters to follow them. The roots would have to grow down below the pot before they could brow sideways. I don't know if that is good or bad. If I plant directly in-ground, I would always use a wire basket to protect the roots anyway. I would also have to build up a berm below each tree to form a well for watering. I would love to hear some opinions about whether or not I should use the pots or just plant them directly in-ground.
As for the varieties, I have to use what I have to work with that is already at the 1. The current candidates are Vista, Violette de Bordeaux, Black Mission, Raspberry Latte, Conadria, Excel, LSU Purple, Purple Smyrna, Strawberry Jam, Peter's Honey, Hardy Chicago or Celeste. I haven't made up my mind yet. Opinions welcome.
So, I humbly request that you submit any ideas or criticism now. I would much rather hear about how stupid my ideas are before I have carried them out. By the way, if there are any good ideas among these plans, I have taken them from other members of this forum.
[Edited to remove typo]
__________________Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
pino
Registered:1383190021 Posts: 2,117
Posted 1424017557
Reply with quote
#2
What do I know about California I live in the great white north..LOL The plan looks good to me! It is similar to what I am planning to replace a row of grapes with a row of figs 250' except that I need to keep my cordons close (or below the ground) for hilling up for the winter. Do you have a photo of the site? Not sure what posts you are using for your fig trellis? I have worked with high-tension wire and it is a real pain. I found, if I keep the rows less than 250' regular trellis wire works fine and much easier to work with. Good luck with it
__________________Pino, zone 6, Niagara, JCJ Acres Wish; Peace on earth and more figs Italian 258, Galicia Negra, Luv, trade suggestions welcome.
DaveL
Registered:1418927587 Posts: 247
Posted 1424018525
Reply with quote
#3
Has anyone used the A M Leonard Pot in Pot container system. A 25 gal pot which is planted in the ground permanently and a 25 gal liner/pot, which contains the plant, is than inserted or removed at will. At $10.00 a set seems like it could be worth a look. Ships in bundle of 10 from amazon. Any thoughts especially from those of us considering in burying in pots?
__________________ Dave
Waterford, Ct. Zone 6B
jtwhit1985
Registered:1418321974 Posts: 14
Posted 1424018693
Reply with quote
#4
I am very new to all things figs but your plan looks solid to me. What kind of container do you plan on leaving permanently in ground?
__________________ Travis
DesertDance
Registered:1247674606 Posts: 4,518
Posted 1424019444
Reply with quote
#5
I like your plan! Seems good! Decomposed granite is what we have, and I wouldn't consider it good soil, but we try to amend ours. Our big problem is digging holes. We always run into granite that is not yet decomposed... AKA boulders underground. Good luck with that plan! Suzi
__________________ Zone 9b, Southern California. "First year they sleep, Second year they creep, Third year they leap!" Wish List: I wish all of you happy fig collecting! My wishes have been fulfilled!
rcantor
Registered:1309799312 Posts: 5,724
Posted 1424021344
Reply with quote
#6
I mostly like your plan but I question the wisdom of planting what you have now as the permanent rather than the temporary trees. You're looking at several lifetimes of figs and you're in Zone 10. Why plant a Mission when you could plant Ronde de Bordeau, Col de Dame Grise, Maltese Falcon or Beauty, Sunfire, MVSB, Black Madeira, St Rita, JH Adriatic and on & on. I'd suggest waiting until you audition several of the best figs and then plant the winners. Plant some early, some late, some mid season. Visit Jon, Harvey and several of the other CA growers. If you invest 3 years to get the best figs your great, great grandchildren will thank you for it. I'd donate some cuttings to the cause.
__________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
cyberfarmer
Registered:1293483474 Posts: 544
Posted 1424031801
Reply with quote
#7
@Pino: here is the photo you asked for. The row in question is the one marked "Proposed Cordon #1". The temp trees in between could get moved over to "Proposed Cordon #2" later, or to some other spot, or to replace any of the "permanent" trees that aren't working out.
@Pino: I think I got most of my ideas from this post:
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/japanese-fig-culture-some-links-7128063, but have also been reading what other members have been doing with stepovers. I did not know that there was such thing as low-tension wire trellis. In my ignorance, I assumed that the wire must be pulled tight in order to provide support. Could you please point me to some information about the type of trellis you use?
@Dave: I think I would like a system like that if I were planning on moving the trees more than once. However, the permanent ones would have bottoms cut out so that the roots can go into the ground and grow big. The temporary ones will keep their bottoms and get pulled out within a year.
@Travis: They are in regular 5 gallon black nursery containers. I would bury the uphill lip right down to soil level, while the downhill rim would protrude from the hillside a bit like a step. I have considered lining the bottom with some gopher wire in case we have any deep tunnellers.
@Suzi: let me know if you ever want to borrow my jack hammer. It cuts through those DG boulders like butter! Most of my DG is already broken down and is easy to dig. It drains a little bit too well, but keeping a nice thick layer of wood chips on top of it and spreading our goat and chicken poop everywhere definitely helps it build some hummus. Leguminous cover crops such as biomass peas do wonders for improving soil structure. I am amazed at how just one year of growing thick cover crops has made my ground feel more like soil than sand.
@Bob: I know exactly what you are saying. Thanks to the generosity of members in this forum, I already have Rdb, CdD, MvsB, Black Madeira, Nero 600 and several other really top notch varieties in cups in my humidity bins right now. I think that in my climate, Vista or VdB could be as good as any other fig. Otherwise, I am hoping that It won't be too difficult to graft other varieties onto the cordons later. Worst case, I call this a practice run and rip them out of the ground and replant with my best varieties and do a better job of it having had more experience.
__________________Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
DesertDance
Registered:1247674606 Posts: 4,518
Posted 1424033722
Reply with quote
#8
Explain to me about biomass peas. Where to buy and when to plant? JD just left for tonight's Ducks game in Anaheim. I'll tell him about the jack hammer. Maybe we'll just swing down and borrow yours, give it a try, and if it works, either rent or buy one. Serious boulders up here. Some you can watch decompose in front of your eyes. Other boulders are a little tougher. I looked for biomass peas on Ebay. NO items listed. I know it's called something else......... Thanks! Suzi
__________________ Zone 9b, Southern California. "First year they sleep, Second year they creep, Third year they leap!" Wish List: I wish all of you happy fig collecting! My wishes have been fulfilled!
cis4elk
Registered:1347840383 Posts: 1,718
Posted 1424036750
Reply with quote
#9
Territorial seed sells many varieties of cover crop, not to mention a great selection of everything else.http://www.territorialseed.com/category/s?keyword=cover+crop
__________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)
pino
Registered:1383190021 Posts: 2,117
Posted 1424038524
Reply with quote
#10
Paul That is a very nice setting for a couple rows of figs. Here is a link of the trellis system I use for my grapes. I am planning to try similar with figs this year. The wire I use is from the local co-op. Same thickness as the high-tensile but it is much easier to bend and work with. High tensile is a very strong wire and is a must if you have long rows. Long term the high-tensile will last longer and may not stretch as much and need to tighten every year.http://viticulture.hort.iastate.edu/info/pdf/domototrellis.pdf
__________________Pino, zone 6, Niagara, JCJ Acres Wish; Peace on earth and more figs Italian 258, Galicia Negra, Luv, trade suggestions welcome.
jtwhit1985
Registered:1418321974 Posts: 14
Posted 1424041151
Reply with quote
#11
Seems like nursery pots would degrade over time. Might not or maybe that's not a concern. Just a thought.
__________________ Travis
cyberfarmer
Registered:1293483474 Posts: 544
Posted 1424046026
Reply with quote
#12
@Suzi: Oops, they're called Biomaster Peas: http://www.groworganic.com/biomaster-peas-raw-lb.html I had to inoculate with whatever microorganism that helps them to fix nitrogen. Then we spread them anywhere near where we had drip lines but nothing growing yet, like in between trees. We planted in late fall and cut down in early summer. I thought it would takes years of doing this to see a difference. However, when I later dug holes near where the peas had grown, the soil was spongier than the soil just a few feet away. @pino: Sounds like for my short rows, lower tension would work fine.. might just need to add an extra post in the middle to keep the runs shorter. @Travis: Yes, I would expect so. But, by then, the root system would be big enough to tolerate some gnawing from the gophers. Also, I think they gophers (or moles or voles or whatever) seem to prefer young and tender trees. I think they are less interested in the tougher mature roots. The wire gopher baskets I use are designed to rust apart after a few years so that the root ball can expand.
__________________Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
james
Registered:1189185103 Posts: 1,653
Posted 1424060833
· Edited
Reply with quote
#13
Hi Paul, I had buried trees planted in Air-Pots. As the trees got older, the holes in the containers girdled the roots. As the solid plastic container begins to degrade, you may find yourself with a similar situation. Having said that, the root pruning containers do allow for the roots to grow into the native soil without too much circling. Use one that is large enough to sustain the tree for at least five years (at least 25 gallons). ~james
__________________ In containers - Littleton, CO (zone 5b) In ground - N.E of Austin, TX (zone 8b) 2016 Wish List: Dārk Pōrtuguese, Grānthāms Royāl, Lātarolla, Negrettā, Nōire de Bārbentāne, Rockāway Green, Viōlet Sepōr , Viōlette Dā uphine . Iranian figs are always welcome.
elin
Registered:1360863025 Posts: 1,271
Posted 1424063097
Reply with quote
#14
Hi paul
watch this link:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1893343/visit-with-richard-watts-with-pics
The pix show clearly he is using pots probable for the same reason-tight space.
If i was you i would terrace the ground like in the picture i attach
There are alot of benefits to terracing i believe that it will restrict growth in a tight space due to
Air pruning.
Attached Images
image.jpg (459.59 KB, 22 views)
__________________ Eli ,Israel ,Zone 10? Too humid and hot, yada yada yadahttps://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1298814119 Growing : Sbayi, Hmadi, Black Portugal, Black Brazil,Excell, Flanders, Hmari , RDB, Niagra Black,Natalina, CDDN,Maya, Preto Torres, Preto Arge
jdsfrance
Registered:1376988473 Posts: 2,591
Posted 1424084366
Reply with quote
#15
Hi cyberfarmer, Your idea is good. Let us know how they grow. ... Where is the BUT ? Lets pretend I have some questions instead : If doing a cordon, and planning for cutting down to the scaffold branches each year ... You are throwing away the breba crop . Is that your plan ? ... Why ? If doing a cordon, you're looking at small size cultivars, or not ? Since you're in a zone 10 ( OMG, Zone 10 !), your fig trees don't suffer from die-back, so they could grow larger. Now if I had to do that, I would grow them in "bushy cordon", with 4 stems coming out of the dirt at each spot - for more productivity. As for the pots with bottom removed, because you have a dripping system, you won't have my problem of trees suffering from lack of watering in the summer. I use pots and 80 liters trashcans - in your case, I would use the trashcans - because you won't be moving them around, you don't need heavy duty containers. My using of buried pots and trashcans with bottom removed is because of rodents and winter protection and so far , so good . Here in leveled dirt, it seems that a 30 cm /1' deep pot with bottom removed is enough to let the rodents pass by the trees, and not being attracted to the root system - at least, for the last 3 years it has been enough by me . You could take the opportunity to replace all the dirt inside the container with potting dirt/compost from the nurseries - this is what I do as I have a clay ground that is prone to the clay-jar effect . So for draining I replace most of the dirt . Just remember, that fig trees in a pot will be slower to grow and less aggressive . As for the container lasting or not, here my older are 4 years old, and to my big surprise they still look nice. When shoveling nearby, I just open all my eyes for not to hit the container with the shovel.
__________________ ------------------------
Climate from -25°C to + 35°C
Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here
DesertDance
Registered:1247674606 Posts: 4,518
Posted 1424097773
· Edited
Reply with quote
#16
Thanks for the link Paul! The inoculation confused me until I went to the link. I think I get it! So you plant in fall. Bummer. I was ready to do this now, but it probably gets too hot. Next year! I was wondering why you want to keep your trees so small too, but I guess you know your land and what you've got room for. We aren't doing a B&B like you, so we only care to keep the trees low enough to be able to reach the figs and have the trees not block our views. Good luck with your plan, and thanks for the help in enriching our awful DG! Suzi PS, Calvin that is a nice link you shared too! I'll spend some time wandering around in there! Thanks
__________________ Zone 9b, Southern California. "First year they sleep, Second year they creep, Third year they leap!" Wish List: I wish all of you happy fig collecting! My wishes have been fulfilled!
cyberfarmer
Registered:1293483474 Posts: 544
Posted 1424110393
Reply with quote
#17
Hi JD,
Thanks for all the comments. Regarding breba crop, I was planning on removing alternate vertical shoots every other year. So, after the first year, I would take off half of them and keep the remaining branches pinched at the top guide wire. Those branches would form a breba crop the next year and I would also have a new set of shoots for my main crop. At the end of that year I would remove the 2 year old shoots and keep the ones from current year. I am entirely inexperienced at this, but I think I read something like that in one of the Japanese fig cordon articles. If that doesn't work, I am fine with having only main crop. Let's face it, very soon I will have more figs than I know what to do with!
The main reason I am planting this style is that my wife wanted me to put in a few vineyard rows because she likes the way they look. I'd rather grow figs than grapes, so that's what she gets. We have a few acres, so I will have plenty of room for a few full size fig trees, some well pruned central leader trees, some Japanese bush style, a frankenfig... I'm just having fun. I also think the cordon will be a great place to practice grafting. If I have some really great varieties on other trees, I'll prune them in winter and graft the cuttings onto the verticals in spring. Finally, if I have guests visiting who want to pick figs, I would prefer to have them walk on level ground picking at eye level.
Regarding "bushy cordon", I have a few trees that have two equal trunks. I considered just bending each one at scaffold height. However, I am leaning toward single trunk because that would allow me to wrap it in sheet metal to prevent rodents from climbing up. That is more difficult to do with a multi-trunk. I think that if I want higher density, I will just leave the "temporary" trees in the ground so that I have 8 foot spacing instead of 16.
I'm very glad to hear that in your experience, the pots deter rodents. That is the main reason I want to leave the pots on. It just occurred to me that the pots might encourage the roots to go deeper rather than wider. I wonder if that would discourage lateral growth of the branches as well? Uh oh.
__________________Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )