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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Fertigation of cuttings will result in faster growth, healthier and more productive fig trees.

There has been much published about figs needing minimal fertilization. Its been my observation that this comment has been perpetuated and leads to lack of fertilization of newly rooted cuttings and young fig trees. The reduced fertilizer requirement actually applies to fruiting trees not young fig trees or cuttings. Fruiting fig trees need to produce less vegetation and more figs, therefore reduced Nitrogen levels is advisable.

Rooted Cuttings and young trees on the other hand need as much vegetative growth as possible and should be provided with a fertilization schedule with a balanced fertilizer. I've fertilized rooted cuttings with a dilute water soluble fertilizer (Miracle Grow All purpose). Starting with 1/2 teaspoon / gallon of water for newly rooted cuttings and progressing to 1 teaspoon / gallon of water with 1/4 teaspoon of Epsom salt once they are planted in 1 gallon pots. In the early stages of growth, the cuttings are fertigated, watered only with this dilute fertilizer solution.

Comparing the node spacing at the base of the young tree (the new growth from the cutting), its easy to see which plants have had good initial growth and which plants have struggled to grow. Close nodal spacing (measured in fractions of an inch) will result in slower growing trees, while longer nodal spacing will result in faster growing more productive trees.

Whether you use a dilute Organic Fertilizer or a dilute Mineral Fertilizer the newly rooted cuttings and young plants should be provided all the balanced nutrients that they need for early vegetative growth.
Dieseler

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Pete types Close nodal spacing (measured in fractions of inches) will result in slower growing trees, while longer nodal spacing will result in faster growing more productive trees.

There are exceptions like Negretta in our yard with natural close nodal spacing and therefor slower growing but a
tremendous producer as i have shown over the years.
WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Could not agree more Pete.
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Martin,
Thanks for commenting.
There are always exceptions to nodal spacing distances based on the particular cultivar, but fertigation will work for every fig cutting regardless of the specific growth habits of that cultivar.


WillsC,
Thanks for commenting.
drphil69

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
I'm still new to this but I cupped up in 2 parts MG pearlite and 1 part MG seed starting mix then went to 50/50 MG pearlite and MG potting mix for the 1 gal and they are growing great. Ive been alternating watering with weak MG soln and 'great white' mycorrhizae.
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Chivas

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
I agree but with one exception, swelling figs require more potassium for the fruits, so they may not require much while fruiting, potassium will help encourage quality, size and productivity.
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pino

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Great topic Pete! 
This is timely information for me since I just got some nice RDB cuttings that I really want see succeed.
So, I picked up some "MG quick start" 4-12-4 that according to the label promotes vigorous root growth and reduce transplant shock.   However it calls for 1 capful /2 gallons.  The capful is about 80mm.  I was going to add to the water for perlite rooting mix.
Wonder if this is too strong a solution or maybe I should wait for when transplanting?
Thanks
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Phil,
Thanks for commenting and sharing your info.
I believe that there is substantial anecdotal evidence out there to corroborate by opening statement and your observations, including the Basic Plant Science. I've been gardening for decades and providing diluted fertilizer to seedlings and young potted plants has always been a standard procedure that I learned from other gardeners. I just used the same procedures on fig cuttings and am posting my observations. Others should try it with one cutting to see for themselves.


Chivas,
Thanks for commenting.
I'm in complete agreement about Potassium and its importance to fig production. My statement about fertigation is directed more to getting cuttings off to a good start. You may remember that I use Espoma-Tone Organic fertilizers in addition to the Miracle Grow for older Fig Trees to provide for balanced nutrients and beneficial soil microbes.


Pino,
Thanks and thanks for sharing your info.
The Miracle Gro Quick Start doesn't provide Guaranteed Micro Nutrients only the published Guaranteed NPK values. Whatever you use please read the labels, they should provide a balanced NPK and all the micro nutrients, including Magnesium. Miracle Gro All purpose doesn't include Magnesium or Calcium, but I add Epsom Salts (Magnesium) and Calcium is provided in most potting mixes (as Limestone or gypsum).
MG_Comparison_All_Qstart.png  
Also what ever is used it should be 1/3 to 1/4 the normal recommended maintenance dose, and never more than 1/2 the normal. This dilution seems to be a standard dilution that is also practiced in Hydroponic Culture.
Dieseler

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
I know what you mean .
Here is Negretta for its size its the strongest producer in yard .
But as mentioned its an exception.

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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Martin,
Thanks for sharing the picture....
That Negretta looks very healthy and productive.
Dieseler

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Your welcome Pete . ; )
pino

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Thanks Pete for opening my eyes on nutrients and MG.
Can these MG products be used for foliar feeding if required or are there better stuff for that?
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fignutty

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Pete:

I'd agree, high fertility to size up new plants but limited nitrogen fertility to produce fruit. The statement in next to last paragraph "longer nodal spacing will result in faster growing more productive trees" is somewhat misleading and contradictory to lowering nitrogen to encourage fruiting.
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Pino,
Yes, I use the MG All Purpose for foliar feeding and have recommended it here. Its a mineral based product and is relatively free of byproducts. I use it at 1/2 or 1 teaspoon / gallon of water depending on how delicate the plant. For figs I use it at 1 teaspoon / gallon for foliar feeding.
If you have pale leaves, a good use for MG as Foliar feed is to test if a plant is actually nutrient deficient. If its a nutrient deficiency the leaves will green up in days.


Steve,
Thanks for commenting.
I believe my statement was quantified by the use of "cuttings" and "young tree",  but I can see where the one sentence may be taken out of context.
I'm not referring to Fig producing trees, but even fig producing trees need proper fertilization and nutrients...<and can benefit from fertigation.>

<edit>
fignutty

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Pete:

Agreed and thanks for bringing up the topic. So how or when do you switch from growth to fruiting? How long in your experience does it take to slow down a fast growing young plant in order to encourage fruiting? When would you expect fruit on a potted plant, second year from a cutting?

I had a nitrogen retentive soil once that took forever with in ground trees. Get them going and they won't quit. In pots or even with my current soil the plant can be slowed quickly.
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Steve,
You're welcome.

I'm new to figs, but have been experimenting and following forum advise for the past 2 years. The Miracle Gro is stopped at the end of July. But I also use Espoma Garden-Tone at 1/2 recommended application for insoluble and long term fertilization. I dont specifically look to encourage fruiting, most trees will produce a fig at each leaf node, I usually pinch the ones that appear after July 1.

In ground I use Espoma and MG once in the early spring (bud break) and use Compost and Mulch the rest of the season.

<edit> By stopping the MG Liquid fertilization the NPK ratio actually changes, Decreasing N and increasing the K. This Year I will be providing continual MG fertigation to a few bearing fig trees and observe their growth.
thearabicstudent

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Does fertilizer really do much for figs?  I mean they'll grow out of cracks in rocks.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOfStjyrkPM

I can see them needing rock dust though.
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jdsfrance

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Hi Ascpete,
Be it a mature tree or a young rooted cutting, IMO they all require fertilization .
Now each one will do as he wants.
Here with my cold winters coming when they want, I must take everything I can, and get the trees productive as much as I can.
If I mess up a "good" year, the next one might just kill the tree to the ground . So I use fertilization to speed up the trees.

For me, it is better to get the tree bigger and prune, rather than keeping the tree small and not pruning.
For me, I prefer having two medium trees rather than one extra big .
So I fertilize well until August, and then I stop fertilizing.
I water my trees every two or three days when possible ie most of the time.

For the young rooted cuttings, I fertilize as well, as I think that rooting a cutting is a race against problems - insects attacking the roots, cutting not tacking enough water, new roots replacing the roted ones...
That is too the reason I'm rooting direct in compost ...
I'm using mineral balls of fertilizer that I put in the water, and mix well. I let that water settle down for a day or two .
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drphil69

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
This is a great thread!  In addition to all the good info, I learned a new word today - fertigation!

Fertigate
— vb  , -ates , -ating , -ated
 to fertilize and irrigate at the same time, by adding fertilizers to the water supply

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GeneDaniels

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chivas
I agree but with one exception, swelling figs require more potassium for the fruits, so they may not require much while fruiting, potassium will help encourage quality, size and productivity.


Chivas, How and when do you give your figs more potassium? Do you use Greensand? When do you apply?
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Dieseler

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
This good thread for many newer members !
I personally doucment with dated pictures when the figs first come out and have good idea
when they will ripen at about half way point they do not get fertilizer anymore .
But
what i also have been doing once figs are spent they get 1 shot of fertilizer.
Yes im the oddball
But we are all different. 

Come to the Darkside.   ; )
Chivas

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
I am trying potassium sulfate this year, I tried it a couple times last year, you can top dress, mix it with your soil or put it in water and feed.  Right now I am top dressing with blood and bone meal so we will see how it goes, I am thinking that it will be be enough to top dress, although it is water soluble and could potentially leach quickly so I will have to keep an eye out on it.
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Thearabicstudent,
Thanks for commenting,
Although they are growing out of cracks, Nature provides the fertilization, otherwise they would not have survived. Seeds were probably deposited in bird guano, the mineral content of the stone, the nutrient rich runoff (which probably also has more guano) has resulted in a growing plant. BTW Miracle Gro and similar fertilizers are nothing more than rock dust... ; ) 


Jdsfrance,
Thanks for commenting and sharing your info.


Phil,
Thanks.
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=6409703 an earlier topic on fertigation...

GeneDaniels,
I personally don't add individual NPK nutrients other than to insure that there is a "balanced" supply readily available for the growing plants.


Martin,
Actually I've saved some of your documented info, which is part of the basis for my fertilization schedules... Miracle Gro.
Ruuting

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
I'm latching to this thread. Thank you for the great information.

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PepperMan

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
I have also learned a lot, good topic! I've been using quarter strength foliage pro, gonna step it up to half after they leave quart pots into gallons next week. Foliar feedings seem to help the slow rooters as well.
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kubota1

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Pete, I agree 100% with the fertilizing of young plants. This year I started watering with a diluted fertilizer every day. My newly rooted plants have looked great. I don't know if it's the fertilizer or the varieties this year, but I've pulled more figs off this winter. I actually left a few on because of how quick they'd put out another. In one of the pictures you will see a newly started plant with 12" leaves.

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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Ruuting,
Thanks, you're welcome.


Chad,
Thanks for commenting and sharing your info.
I posted a simple comparison of Foliage Pro to dilute MG last year and they were very similar in nutrient content (@ 1 teaspoon MG / gallon.)


Art,
Thanks for commenting and sharing your info and pictures.
Those are some some healthy looking plants.
What fertilizer are you using and what is the dilution?
kubota1

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
Pete, The fertilizer that I am using on my starters is made by Pennington. It's very similar to Miracle
Grow. I just happened to get a very good deal at the end of last year. It's 24-8-16 in tablet form. They are made for the Pennington sprayer. The tablets are similar to a chlorine tablet. I'd just drop one tablet into a 5 gallon bucket full of water.
I would take a roughly 3/4 full water can and fill the rest with the fertilizer. I just eyeball it. Probably different ratio every day.
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Ruuting

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Art, Holy Mackerel! Are those from this year? From Bill Saxon?
That's insane! I need a greenhouse...

Edit - I just read your post again, they are from this year!
Grow, babies, GROW!
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Rui
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kubota1

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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Rui, They are growing under T5 lights in my basement. I think Tomorrow I will pot up a couple and put them in the greenhouse. Then they should really take off.

That one with the large leaves I think is going to be promising. I found that one last summer and it never gets covered. (No dieback this very, very cold winter) Only one in my area that didn't die to the ground.
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bullet08

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
everything in moderation. but even little fertilizer goes far with figs. i usually fertilize my young trees once they have roots. but if they don't, i fertilize them to see if that will push root or top. once they are in 1 gal, i usually don't fertilize for few weeks. once they are settled in 1 gal, i start fertilizing them with weak MG. about 2 tiny scoop on the green scoops that comes with it. once the roots start to circle around i go full strength. 

too much fertilizer can cause possible issue, but little when young can push the growth a lot. 
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***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
KK

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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
I fert newly rooted cuttings every 10-14 days with MG. The scoop MG provides has a big end and a small end. I use 2 level small ends to a gallon of water.  I only water where the roots are. 
Dieseler

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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
Pete im honored.
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
Art,
Thanks for the reply.
It may be pushing it, but could you please take a picture or post the Guaranteed Analysis on the back label of the container, I'm interested in the micro nutrients for comparison, I believe it may have a Sulfur content. I checked on the web and the analysis nor a picture is posted. Thanks.


Pete,
Thanks for commenting and posting your info.
Yes, the idea is to not over fertilize and provide a low dose that can be safely used by the young plant.


KK,
Thanks for commenting and posting your info.
The small end of the MG scoop is 1/2 teaspoon, so you're fertilizing with 1 teaspoon / gallon of water.


Martin,
Credit where credit is due, Thanks.
rafed

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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
Pete,

Excellent topic.

I have never been a fan of fertilizing young rooted plants or a big fan of using MG.
I do use MG from time to time but I prefer 10-10-10 or 20-20-20.

But this year I rolled the dice and did both.
I fertilized my young rooted plants using 1/3 to 1/2 dose with MG all purpose fertilizer and these plants are taking off!

But one question,
Do you think a fertilizer (of any type) can have a negative effect on gnat or any other insect or pest larvae?
Has this thought ever cross your mind?
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
Rafed,
Thanks, and thanks for commenting and sharing your info.

Yes, I actually have observed difference between Organic fertilizers, Miracle Gro fertilizer and increased insect and microbial activity including Fungus gnats. There is always more activity in the mixes that contain Organic fertilizers and much less in those fertilized with Miracle Gro. That's why I had always posted on my use of only dilute MG on cuttings up to the 1 gallon stage. Also most Organic fertilizers promote fungal growth directly (mycorrhizae) or indirectly which attracts fungus gnats.

My only problem with most 10-10-10 or 20-20-20 fertilizers is that they do not contain micro nutrients. For container grown plants these nutrients have to be added since they are essential.
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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
Pete,
Thanks for the info. I am fertilising my young plants once a week with diluted fertiliser. They indeed grow faster than those that I didn't fertilised.

Norhayati
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rafed

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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
Thanks Pete,

I always enjoy your posts. Keep up the good work.
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
Norhayati,
You're welcome and thanks for commenting and sharing your info.


Rafed,
You're welcome.
Thanks.
james

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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
I was fertigating my containers between 2006 and 2010 (when I was growing in containers) with a Dramm Syphonject.  It is a brass nozzle that fits between the bib and the hose.  A small hose comes out of the side and goes into a bucket with the nutrient solution.  When the water is turned on, the solution is sucked in.  When it worked, it was great, but it was temperamental.  It definitely beat the hell out of hand watering 130 trees.

Pete, now that I am going back to growing in containers, "automated fertigation" is a large part of the motivation of using a hydroponic system.
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rafaelissimmo

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Posted Reply with quote  #41 
Hi Pete great thread. For two years I have been following Jon's advice to soak with water and then one hour later water with a half strength miracle gro solution. All I know, it has produced impressive growth for me for the last two years. This is different from fertigation, which if I understand you correctly, should be the exclusive form of watering done on a 1-gallon young plant, as an example? Thank you.
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #42 
James,
Thanks for commenting and sharing your info.
The SIP (Sub-Irrigated Planter) in combination with a nutrient solution (dilute fertilizer) reservoir is the next step in my fertigation experiment (automated fertigation). After researching the Nutrient Solutions (Fertilizers) that were being used for Hydroponic Culture I realized that many of the Guaranteed Nutrient Analysis used on Commercial Hydroponic crops are very close to those that I had already been using successfully for feeding cuttings and 1 gallon fig trees. I will be testing to see if continued fertigation will work for fruiting trees.


Rafael,
Thanks for commenting and sharing you info.
I followed the same advise, but soon realized that watering with 1/2 strength was enough to insure that there was no damage to younger more tender plants. Since I never let my potting mix "dry out", I have stopped the practice of pre-wetting the mix before fertilizing for older plants and just fertilze more often to get the same dose (full strength is 1/week and  1/2 strength is 2/week).
Yes, fertigation is much closer to hydroponics in practice. The plant is always watered with a weak fertilizer solution. In the case of Miracle Gro All Purpose, you are using the recommended dose but spreading it over the entire recommended time period at 1/3 strength (1 teaspoon).
kubota1

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Posted Reply with quote  #43 
Pete, You are right it does have a sulfur content in it. What are your thoughts?

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kubota1

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Posted Reply with quote  #44 
In a couple months I'm going to switch to this. (N-P-K 10-30-20)

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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #45 
Sulfur is a needed element for plants, even for plants that tend to like alkaline conditions.  
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #46 
Art,
What WillsC said...
Sulfur is a necessary nutrient. Its often supplied after the chemical decomposition of other fertilizer ingredients.
Thanks for the reply...
The Nitrogen ratios (nitrate and urea) are also balanced.
Chivas

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Posted Reply with quote  #47 
I tried your foliar feed late last season Pete, I shouldn't have as it was too late in the season and it worked too well, promoted too much soft growth when I did.  That being said the miracle grow foliar feed works well as you posted at the rates you posted, the only thing I did was add some iron chelate (6% stains everything blood red if you get it on your hands or clothes).  I know you will have great success with your fertigation program as it works well in Spain for figs and other fruiting plants around the world.  I am just learning more about gypsum and it's benefits so I am curious how much sodium the miracle grow has in it (probably not much is my guess) but I have learned that magnesium and sodium will make soil heavy and clump up, then with addition of gypsum and high calicum ag lime (little magneisum) you can lighten the soil.

 I only bring this up as I believe you are still adding dolomite lime to your container mix, you have excellent results as it goes but I wonder if gypsum would help at all in addition to the lime application?  It will also help balance the potassium and phosphorus levels in a soil while help keep calcium more available, although it has been suggested that it should only be added after getting most of your calcium from ag lime and dolomite lime so not much is needed compared to the limestone.  I am assuming you don't have any issues with these elements (especially from your pictures) but have you ever thought about adding gypsum for any reason or have you used it with not much effect as some would claim it has?
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #48 
Chivas,
The Miracle Gro Analysis doesn't list any Sodium, but there is probably trace amounts.
Yes, I always use Dolemite Limestone, I add it to everything.
I actually acquired some gypsum to try in the Hydroponic/SIP tests on older plants. I'm using it for its quicker breakdown and absorption.  I'm also adding small amounts of Ironite Supplement (4.5%) this year, it includes Sulfur (10%), it made a very noticeable difference in plant growth last year but I'm still testing its use.
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Posted Reply with quote  #49 
Pete,
You always post such good information and I thank you. I am starting your method today!
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Chivas

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Posted Reply with quote  #50 
What type of gypsum are you using?  I tried a granular one last year, I wouldn't mind to find the finely ground one as I think it would be better for absorption as well.  I put 1 cup on a 18 gallon pot last year, how are you applying it and approximately how much are thinking to use?

I think you will have nothing but good luck with that ironite, I am hoping the blood meal I am trying as fertilizer will help for iron and the molasses I will be adding as well, it may not be enough iron though.
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