I like to bump this thread up im sure some members have not seen it.

Thanks for bumping this one up, I enjoyed reading through it.

Martin,

I'm wondering...  If I want to take cuttings, or air layer from a particular fig tree, would it make a difference if I did so from branches that grew in a more robust, healthy-looking way?  I'm about to air layer such a branch that was more loaded with figs and dropped fewer of them, just for fun to see if it would behave differently from the parent tree, but maybe it wouldn't make any difference.  That trunk of the bush may just have a better root system, or something.

noss

Not sure, but if you try would enjoy reading your results.

Personally if a tree likes to drop figs for me i dont keep it.

For scion i have my own best results when i cut last seasons bud tip piece right before tree wakes up and start propagating it.

This is interesting reading.  

Glad you bumped this, Danny.  Very good discussion and the sad reality of this hobby.

Bumping this very old thread. I'm not expecting any great revelations here (although that would be nice)....Searching the forum it's become obvious that one could bang their head clear through a wall trying to positively identify a particular variant fig....

The question I'd like to offer for additional discussion is off on just a slight tangent - That is - how does a "named" fig get it's officially recognized name. Here's what I mean. I could buy what is clearly a Dalmatie. It's looks and behaves like a Dalmatie. But if root a bunch and call them Pipino's Delight, of course I'm being disingenuous.

I understand the Desert King comes from a fig tree found in 1930, near Madera, California. OK, by whom and at what point could it be legitimately called by that name?  Why did [whomever] get to legitimately name a brown turkey? Why are we not calling it an "unknown brown turkey"?

Alternately, I take a variety that's been grown for generations on an old family homestead for generations. following attempts in the community and perhaps DNA tests there is no conclusive match... Is it an "unknown Pipino's Delight"? Can I then legitimately name this fig and declare it the mother tree? A new and unique cultivar? Why not? Who gets to decide?

As far as I know there's no internationally recognized "fig" body that examines and defines species.....or is there?

Is this problem the same for peach or apple trees? Or olives?

Can of worms - REOPENED

At one time, long ago and far, far, away I asked a similar question and as I remember Jon Encanto Farms, Grand Guru, Exalted Poopah of this forum, etc, etc said that UCD/Riverside had germoplasm/DNA/??? on all the figs in their inventory and that they had numbers assigned as well as the common name.  I have seen a list, somewhere.

I would not swear to any of the above but I believe it to be true.  I would ask someone that has connections to UCD/Riverside to confirm this if possible.

The only rule that I am aware of in the naming of figs is that the word "Unknown" should be included in all names.

Hey Danny. I'm not sure I follow the last bit... it's not "unknown desert king" or "unknown black mission"...right?

Jon shared some really interesting variants on this thread....the different stuff he had growing off of the same tree is very strange....

But back to the name...If I give my fig a name and there's no reasonable contest that it's unique...then what makes it any more unknown that a named fig?

I don't have an answer but I have an opinion, and what's better than that?
We are talking about a fig you found growing somewhere. It is assumed this is a fig from a cutting and not a seed. (A seed is inherently unique and this method would not apply.). I would think there should be some kind of organized way to do give it an official name.
Proposal:
1) Take what you think is unique and disperse it throughout the fig community so others can grow it and report on the variety. Maybe it's terrible, maybe someone else is growing it and it can be positively identified as a known variety.
2) have a DNA test to determine if is actually something else. (I would imagine that there is not DNA on record for every known variety but a lot of them.)
3) Wait a predetermined amount of time for growers to give their collective opinions. 5-10 years?
4) You get to name your fig.

If this works for everyone let's make it happen.
BTW I have about 60 unknown varieties

You can do whatever you want in naming anything.  Most people naming figs are renaming something that already has a name though it may not be known to the renaming individual or members of the forum.

The CURRENT thinking/wisdom is to include the word "Unknown".  This is not my wisdom, it has been discussed on several occasions and seems like a good idea to a lot of people.

What is, is, what was, is was.  Who knows what the Native name in the native country really is for all figs.  I know of a tree in New Delhi, India that I asked what it kind of fig it was and 2 of the "natives" in our office said 2 different names, who knows?

The only named figs that I personally know how it was named are the LSU Scott's Black/Yellow.  How do I know?, I asked Dr Johnson at LSU.  Named for a friend of Ed O'Rourke who came down on his vacations and helped at the Center, or so the story goes.

Ingevald outlined the scope of fig naming issues.

To use a math analogy there are a some equations that can't be solved.  If fig names were a math equation they would be one..lol

Think of the many countries growing figs and of the 1000's of  fig varieties and only a handful are named for reasons such as agriculture cultivars, history..) 
Most of the fig varieties referred to as black fig, white fig, red fig from this place or that place.  This has served their purpose well since everyone grew figs to feed their family and livestock and there was a limited market for selling nursery products.

Recently fig collection has grown into an exciting hobby for many and there has been some efforts for naming standards. 

The Ira Condit study is the best one I have read and seems to include many of the figs known at that time. 
Condit also points out the issues with fig naming.  Showing how the same fig is called by different names and some names refer to multiple figs and some fig names are obviously wrong, on and on. 
The UC Davis collection is named and numbered, LSU collection and many nursery growers have their own named collection. (Poms, Baud, Belloni, Jon ....) 

How to bring all these partial efforts together into one comprehensive library is no easy task? 
What is the requirement for this all encompassing fig library and associated cost?
 
Let's face it how many perfectly ripe figs grown in an ideal environment have you tasted that didn't taste amazing? 
Which brings us back to why figs were seldom named in the od days.

IMO;
How to give names to new discovered figs is a topic covered on this forum many times before.  Not sure what the last consensus was but should include some basic steps;

1. Investigate if the new fig has already been named
- search existing fig names and photos 
- post fruit, and leaf photos, fig detail description and the fig's story including origin on the forums see if anyone has any ideas or recognizes it.
2. Using the information gathered above and the figs origin, looks, and characteristics give an appropriate NEW name to the fig and suffix it with Unknown. 
3. Over years distribute the figs to others and gather feedback on how it grows in different environments and how it compares to other known figs.
4. adjust the fig name if necessary with notifications to people who now also have the fig.
5. At some point the unknown suffix can be dropped as it has been on the existing known figs.  For good naming practice replace the unk. with the discoverer's initials as in the case of; Marseilles Black VS, Dauphine (Baud) ...

Obviously there are many opinions on fig naming.  To reach an agreed to consensus a new topic should be started by someone willing to own the result including publishing it and ensure people adhere to it in future.

This is exactly the way I was thinking. Here you have a bunch of varietiescurrently defined as "unknown". 
To me it seems unreasonable 
that you mightcare for and propagate one of your varieties for years, only to havesomeone name your 
UK Naples Dark a "UK Napoli Nero"
 (or something moreobscure). IMO there needs to be established some due diligence process,followed by a recognized 
body(or bodies) 
who officially recognize theseare unique cultivars.At some point - if it's established as unique, 
then it's a discovery andno longer an unknown. 
I suppose the question then is who decides and based on what criteria. I can't imagine what that would take. 
It would seem that if due diligence is done, then Naples Dark is no more unknown
than black madeira.

I know I'm coming at this from a position of ignorance. I don't know how the names
of most known figs were defined....

I suppose one other thing for consideration is as to weather this is all out of 
a desire to give credit for a discovery or if the community is seeking to 
own the variety as say, Monsanto does with a strain of food crop.
As it is now I can share figs, named or unnamed, freely with other fig-lovers.
Simply with an effort to provide as much respect as I can as to its lineage. 

This old topic will always be an ever-present issue that we will have to contend with.   Thanks for the recent comments.

Maybe there will be a time when an affordable DNA testing kit will be available to determine the identity of the figs we encounter.   I think that the USDA has tested all of the figs in its database.   Perhaps the data from our tests could be compared against their data or the data from other germplasm collections.   Of course the figs that were donated to them may fall into one of the original categories that I outlined in the beginning of this note.  

There are other germplasm collections in the world that have also had their DNA tested and am sure that that these organizations have shared and compared their data with one another. 

Efforts to accurately document figs have been thought about by many of us.   Here, the F4F site has attempted to help solve the problem with its own varietal database and via discussions on the forums where members post pictures, describe flavors and other characteristics.    Other forums such as Our Figs have also been working on such measures.

The USDA has their public accessible database on figs where some descriptive information can be extracted, including the original donor of the plant material.   The photographic record is missing as well as some other data points.  

Over the years, I have encountered members with ambitions to create databases.   The efforts are genuine but it takes time...

I think that if you are interested in fig identification, one of the old referenced documents is worth visiting.  The IPGRI Descriptors for Fig document is excellent.  Here is an updated link.
http://www.bioversityinternational.org/uploads/tx_news/Descriptors_for_fig__Ficus_carica__907.pdf
It goes into more detail that is likely necessary but is an excellent way to document figs in the traditional way, without access to DNA analysis. 

Another good exercise is outlined in this document that I've posted before - Morphological and Pomological Characteristics of Fig cultivars from Varamin, Iran.    http://www.academicjournals.org/article/article1380961172_Darjazi.pdf

We all have to do the best that we can with the identification and naming issues.   Tracking a variety as far back as possible and hanging on to that information is a good start.

Byron (Ingevald)

Thanks Byron. Looking at those documents just briefly...I feel I could quickly be in over my head. 

It's looking to me that until the resources and organization exists to do what Pino and ADelmanto are suggesting, the best way to know what you're really getting is to know the mother tree.....And the people who are caring for them....