Fig Pits to restrain growth and promote fruit

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Ampersand

Registered:1389979527
Posts: 728

Posted 1397669604	Reply with quote #1

I was perusing a book on fruits and veggies today, not only did the book have a chapter on figs (to my surprise) but it had an interesting idea I haven't seen mentioned before: the "fig pit". Seems essentially to be container growing in the ground. I'd expect much less fuss with watering. If it were set up along a house or wall like in the picture I'd expect large gains in winter survival. Thoughts, comments?

bigbadbill

Registered:1357527109
Posts: 376

Posted 1397671998	Reply with quote #2

I like that, Kelby. I may try it this planting season. Even if die back is significant again next year, the depth of the pit is sufficient to at least withstand prolonged cold in 6b. Good find. Thanks __________________ SE Pa, zone 6b https://www.facebook.com/offthebeatenpathnurseries

Rewton

Registered:1291943117
Posts: 1,946

Posted 1397673977	Reply with quote #3

It's hard to tell from the photo but it seems like the hole is lined with wooden boards rather than paving slabs? I'm wondering whether having the roots confined like that would result in the same issue that leads to root pruning to be necessary for container figs. But perhaps enough roots escape through the bottom to prevent this problem? I have about a dozen that would like to trial in-ground (in a relatively small area) for about 3 years. I would then cull many of them and possibly move others around. So this approach might make sense but it does look like a lot of work. __________________ Steve MD zone 7a

bigbadbill

Registered:1357527109
Posts: 376

Posted 1397677398	Reply with quote #4

I was thinking the same regarding roots out the bottom. Figs are weeds, and I think can find a way out eventually. I look at it ( if it works) as a small initial investment of time, but less in the long run, as wrapping and protecting methods over the years gets old fast. __________________ SE Pa, zone 6b https://www.facebook.com/offthebeatenpathnurseries

susieqz

Registered:1372082549
Posts: 971

Posted 1397692893	Reply with quote #5

i've heard that the idea that restricting root growth to increase fruit production is a myth, but lots of people believe it. has there been a study? is it true? __________________ susie wish list: nothing. i can't grow cuttings . right now, i have 6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.

bullet08

Registered:1284496248
Posts: 6,920

Posted 1397693167	Reply with quote #6

root restriction didn't work with Kathleen's Black. __________________ Pete Durham, NC Zone 7b "don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill "the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher *** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. * * and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...***

susieqz

Registered:1372082549
Posts: 971

Posted 1397693439	Reply with quote #7

soundsright pete. i think it's an old wives tale __________________ susie wish list: nothing. i can't grow cuttings . right now, i have 6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.

rcantor

Registered:1309799312
Posts: 5,724

Posted 1397695927	Reply with quote #8

I don't believe it. Potted figs never bear as much as trees in ground with no root restrictions. Pure malarkey. __________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.

susieqz

Registered:1372082549
Posts: 971

Posted 1397696101	Reply with quote #9

it's good rafed has actual data. i agree, bob. __________________ susie wish list: nothing. i can't grow cuttings . right now, i have 6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.

greysmith

Registered:1394039826
Posts: 254

Posted 1397697137	Reply with quote #10

Cherries have pits, figs have seeds. Putting a fig in a pit sounds unnatural to me. __________________ S central KY, zone 6b

javajunkie

Registered:1362970391
Posts: 1,523

Posted 1397698228	Reply with quote #11

That may be a great solution to my really crappy soil! I understand that nemotodes don't like cement so cement blocks may be the ticket! Thank you for posting this idea. __________________ Tami SE Texas

drphil69

Registered:1390113240
Posts: 803

Posted 1397699486	Reply with quote #12

Quote: Originally Posted by javajunkie That may be a great solution to my really crappy soil! I understand that nemotodes don't like cement so cement blocks may be the ticket! Thank you for posting this idea. I was thinking the same thing! I have a house in coastal NC, RKN heaven. __________________ Phil - Zone 7A - Newark, DE Newbie fig lover just trying to learn.

javajunkie

Registered:1362970391
Posts: 1,523

Posted 1397700931	Reply with quote #13

It seems like the "solution" is always out there, I just have to wait for someone smarter than me to post it! LOL __________________ Tami SE Texas

Ampersand

Registered:1389979527
Posts: 728

Posted 1397732647	Reply with quote #14

Glad some of you can use the idea! Susie/Pete/Bob: I was always a little suspicious of the idea container grown trees produce more fruit. If anything the fruit to growth ratio might be a little higher and dwarfing effect of a container might promote earlier fruit production, but an in ground ground should produce more fruit ultimately. Unless you consider the setbacks of winterkill on in ground plants versus shuffling. Tami/Phil: Let us know how this works for RKN if you try it. They might be able to go through the cracks at the corners...maybe seal with caulk? Or get big concrete cylinders like they use for sewer drains and plant in those!

javajunkie

Registered:1362970391
Posts: 1,523

Posted 1397733008	Reply with quote #15

Kelby, my understanding is that there would be no need to seal it, they avoid cement so having it there may work. I have been advised to plant next to driveway and walkways for that reason but that's not where I need the trees to be. This idea opens up many more possibilities for me. __________________ Tami SE Texas

Ampersand

Registered:1389979527
Posts: 728

Posted 1397734495	Reply with quote #16

Interesting! I have no experience with RKN, so I wasn't sure. I wonder if the lime in the cement repels them? Must be something in it they don't like.

jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1397811019	Reply with quote #17

Hi Ampersand, IMO: Because that box is made of wood, it will rot - so this is not a perennial solution. In my tests I use plastic ... you know 80LDPT. Now why cage the trees : Reason 1: "They say" the trees are more productive ... IMO, still to be proven . I "needed" to test that theory . Reason 2: Avoid pests entry - underground rodents so to be precise . Those dirty ones you don't see them and all of a sudden the trees collapses and you're too late to save her. Reason 3: In that closed space you can put a totally different dirt, and it won't mix and disappear in the surrounding dirt. I use compost as I naturally have clay ground Reason 4: For Zone 7: and less if you use a dark container 80LDPT and let 20 centimeters out of the dirt, the tree gets extra heat from that heating surface - at least I believe. Reason 5: When you water the tree, the water is all dedicated to that plant and doesn't overflow all around Now ok wonderful where are the drawbacks : In case of drought the surrounding humidity is not shared with the inside of the container, and so the tree can get hit by lack of water -which was the case for me for 3 trees last year Holidays you know ... But I was on time to save most of the leaves and maincrop . I don't have drip system. I hope that in the future I won't have that problem as I removed the bottoms from my containers and so water and roots should be able to travel in and out. I know that this would work for grapes as they are known for their deep roots ... As for figs ... Their roots are mostly at surface level but who knows, they might adapt . If the container is too small the tree might have a lack of vigor - 80 Liters should be enough . Another drawback, man ! In clay ground making the hole for the containers takes two biers and 2 hours with the shovel, hammer, crowbar and chisel! That was when the ground was dry - It really was rock hard ! A last advantage, for winter protection, I put an 80LDPT upside down and as the openings do match, the protection is quite good IMO. So now, it is up to you to test ! __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

bullet08

Registered:1284496248
Posts: 6,920

Posted 1397816046	Reply with quote #18

in an area where it rains a lot, wouldn't that trap lot of water like in clay jar type situation? __________________ Pete Durham, NC Zone 7b "don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill "the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher *** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. * * and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...***

Ampersand

Registered:1389979527
Posts: 728

Posted 1397816416	Reply with quote #19

JDS: I think you covered the pros and cons pretty well there! It says in the picture (that is literally what I scanned from the book) to use paving slabs, so it might look like wood but I would hope not and certainly don't condone using wood. I'm not thinking of using it, but just thought I'd share it. Pete: I guess that's the idea of the crushed pots/gravel in the bottom? Though in areas that often get multiple inches it may not be enough. Like the Carolinas where you get those things called hurricanes, hahah.

bullet08

Registered:1284496248
Posts: 6,920

Posted 1397816681	Reply with quote #20

kelby, it's one of the reasons why i keep all mine in the container. at our location, planting them in ground would be ideal, but the soil around my house is all clay. even if i amend the soil, it will just be a clay jar. adding crushed pots and gravel will only make it clay jar with lot of crap in the bottom :) __________________ Pete Durham, NC Zone 7b "don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill "the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher *** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. * * and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...***

Ampersand

Registered:1389979527
Posts: 728

Posted 1397818888	Reply with quote #21

Quote: Originally Posted by bullet08 kelby, it's one of the reasons why i keep all mine in the container. at our location, planting them in ground would be ideal, but the soil around my house is all clay. even if i amend the soil, it will just be a clay jar. adding crushed pots and gravel will only make it clay jar with lot of crap in the bottom :) Just do what I do: dig bigger holes. When I plant trees sometimes I remove nearly a yard of clay. The things I do for fruit. Doesn't help they graded my property in a really strange way since I live on a hill. Last week I had 2" topsoil, a foot of clay, then 2" of topsoil under that.

susieqz

Registered:1372082549
Posts: 971

Posted 1397826522	Reply with quote #22

jds: you have trees inground as a control? if so, i hope you post the differences. um, bullet? do you believe that fig roots won't penetrate clay soil? kelby's way feels right. __________________ susie wish list: nothing. i can't grow cuttings . right now, i have 6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.

bullet08

Registered:1284496248
Posts: 6,920

Posted 1397827426	Reply with quote #23

penetrating is not the issue. the water will not drain fast enough and the roots will sit in water for long time. and if it rains like it did last yr, it will cause lot of issues. if timing is wrong, main crop will be ruined. also, under the clay, we have of ton of crushed concretes that builders filled the land with. our roses area having problem in those. all the trees in our front yard are having issues. not willing to take too much chance with figs. i been toying with an idea of planting one or two duplicates to see how it goes.. but not finding optimal space. our back yard is very small, but our front yard is a good size. putting tree in the front yard is not something my wife wants to do, other than the ones already there. __________________ Pete Durham, NC Zone 7b "don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill "the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher *** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. * * and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...***

susieqz

Registered:1372082549
Posts: 971

Posted 1397830822	Reply with quote #24

well, i hope that issue isn't deadly. i have sandy clay. under the layer of drifting sand, the soil is so hard i needed a pick to open my first hole luckily, i learned that digging a small hole n filling it with water would allow some digging after 15 minutes. it takes 15 minutes for the water to move down. therefore, bullet, my roots will sit in water. oh, 2' down is a sheet of rock that extends for miles. if your fears are correct, i'm screwed, but i gotta try. __________________ susie wish list: nothing. i can't grow cuttings . right now, i have 6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.

bullet08

Registered:1284496248
Posts: 6,920

Posted 1397831046	Reply with quote #25

15 min isn't bad at all. last i checked it's more like 6-8 hrs here. __________________ Pete Durham, NC Zone 7b "don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill "the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher *** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. * * and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...***

susieqz

Registered:1372082549
Posts: 971

Posted 1397832079	Reply with quote #26

wow ! now i understand your concerns. that's real clay ! i wondered why all your trees were in pots. now i know. __________________ susie wish list: nothing. i can't grow cuttings . right now, i have 6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.

MichaelTucson

Registered:1333340598
Posts: 1,216

Posted 1397833811	Reply with quote #27

I agree with Bob: I don't believe the claim. The so-called tip says "Restrain fig roots and the tree will reward you with larger crops". I think that's bunk. You may be able to find some advantages to the technique described there in some very specific scenarios (just as you'll find plenty of disadvantages in lots of other scenarios, probably a larger set). I can devise them too, just as I'm sure most of you can dream up specific scenarios where this would help to solve some problem. But overall this claim is bunk. IMO, it has not even got enough credibility to be worth trying to devise any experiment around the premise. Mike __________________ Pauca sed matura.

susieqz

Registered:1372082549
Posts: 971

Posted 1397834412	Reply with quote #28

mike, logic says your are correct. all my tree sare going in the ground with no root restriction and i fully expect much larger crops. __________________ susie wish list: nothing. i can't grow cuttings . right now, i have 6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.

cis4elk

Registered:1347840383
Posts: 1,718

Posted 1397840042	Reply with quote #29

Hardpan clay? Where there is a will there is a way. Buy some large landscaping bricks or boulders, heck you could even use wood(you'll have to occasionally replace) and do a raised bed, fill it with nice top soil that drains. 4'x4' or larger, and make it a foot or 2 deep. __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

Aaron4USA

Registered:1375832059
Posts: 2,969

Posted 1397841200	Reply with quote #30

In mediterranean, as a lot of people wrote about it, you notice figs grow in rocky areas. The reason that the fig do better in rocky areas than open sandy or clay areas is not because the figs love ROCKS, but, it is because the rocks /boulders/bricks or cement... they hold moisture underneath them and fig roots take advantage of that. Simple:)

susieqz

Registered:1372082549
Posts: 971

Posted 1397841379	Reply with quote #31

pete, that raised bed idea of calvins will work for sure. i bet alan's idea would work too. with all your trees, you deserve a few inground. __________________ susie wish list: nothing. i can't grow cuttings . right now, i have 6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.

Ampersand

Registered:1389979527
Posts: 728

Posted 1397841566	Reply with quote #32

Solution to all your soil problems: dynamite. Or perhaps just a mess maker. Should be fun either way.

susieqz

Registered:1372082549
Posts: 971

Posted 1397845512	Reply with quote #33

oh, a powered post hole digger could make enow holes close together to make it easy, tho not as fun as dynamite. __________________ susie wish list: nothing. i can't grow cuttings . right now, i have 6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.

susieqz

Registered:1372082549
Posts: 971

Posted 1397846553	Reply with quote #34

aaron n alan, i'm in the desert. does that mean i sould use slabs of rock for mulch, instead of wood chips? i can get flat sandstone but it's heavy. __________________ susie wish list: nothing. i can't grow cuttings . right now, i have 6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.

jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1397856759	Reply with quote #35

Hi Bullet08 and Susiegz, You got me laughing - 15 minutes . Let me tell you a story of a man. He sees a fig tree for "cheap" and that should be productive as per the seller - but no name of the strain - who dares to keep that information ? After all that tag does not feed a man (Idiot!)... So the buyer gives the tree a try. Gets back to the garden and digs an hole for an 80L trashcan (who? me! of course.). Well after 40 cm of depth I got tired of hammering the dirt - the dirt was coming out in pellet mode layer by layer - and so I thought : Ok lets put a watering can inside the hole and tomorrow you'll finish it as the dirt will soften and the water will vanish... Well, who's the fool that had to remove his water the next day - 24 hours later ...?!? That is what I call a clay ground - in that case a clay pot . All my water was there the next day staring at me ! I couldn't believe it. Would someone have told that story to me, I would have called him : liar ! To finish about the digging, I removed the water and 10 cm more of dirt, and planted the tree in compost inside the 80Liters trashcan ( bottom cut out ). So far the tree leafed out - but no brebas on her for now ! My 2 cents are on a BT strain or a brunswick perhaps Longue d'aout - time will tell or I'll never know for sure. __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

susieqz

Registered:1372082549
Posts: 971

Posted 1397866528	Reply with quote #36

jds, i'll stop complaining about my soil, even tho it's sterile. worms can't live here. alan, i can't make a wall of stone, but i can circle each tree with dinner plate sized stones. __________________ susie wish list: nothing. i can't grow cuttings . right now, i have 6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.

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