Fig pollination - Myth kill

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jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1389907400	Reply with quote #1

Hi, I live in a region of France where we don't have the wasp - the area is too cold. It is already sometimes hard to keep the figtrees alive through the winter. Year 2013, October and November where unusually mild allowing lots of figs to ripen - if the figtree strain would allow. Of course, some figs did not make it in time, and I did install the winter protections on the trees to cherish the trees - I put clear plastic bag over them - for some figtrees I added a dark bag over the first one. After some days with morning freezing temps, the temps got a bit higher and I did a check on the figtrees to remove the remaining leaves ... Well I guess you know about this cleanup ... My biggest figtree from the "unknown from the Italian" had some 4 figs that somehow made their way and did sort of ripen - and were kind of molding ... Well nothing really any longer edible -just to mention the skin was hard and too thick - I didn't even dare to taste. I had read here about some people playing with seedlings and that gave me an idea. ... Why don't I give it a try with those lost figs - Somehow people seemed to think that only wasp pollinated figs could have viable seeds. But as of today, 7 fig-weeds are born - and some more start seed-breaking . Unfortunately, a tiny worm messed them up, but I have taken revenge for that. The two on the photo were moved -just after the worm hit them- from the seeding pot to this pot which contains a -should be dead- sucker of the same strain ... Let me see if I can raise them. But back to the fig theory : My figtree is self pollinated AND yes, the seeds are viable even without the wasp ! I have seeds of another strain in an other pot, but no signs of life for now. __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

SoniSoni

Registered:1362273241
Posts: 777

Posted 1389908455	Reply with quote #2

Do you suppose there is another variety of insect could do fig pollination? __________________ Soni GA. 7-8. seeking Galicia Negra, Bianchi Guido, Violette de Sollies, Emerald Strawberry

GRamaley

Registered:1357742252
Posts: 791

Posted 1389911047	Reply with quote #3

We do know not all figs need a wasp.... maybe this was just a self pollinator... __________________ Gloria --------------- 7a, maybe 8

penandpike

Registered:1299713708
Posts: 129

Posted 1389915366	Reply with quote #4

Only the Smyrna type fig trees need wasp pollination. The Common type as the one you have are self pollinated. __________________ Pen Europe, Bulgaria, Zone-6a

pino

Registered:1383190021
Posts: 2,117

Posted 1389916759	Reply with quote #5

Jdsfrance, Thanks for the photo of the fig seedlings. Never saw one before. __________________ Pino, zone 6, Niagara, JCJ Acres Wish; Peace on earth and more figs Italian 258, Galicia Negra, Luv, trade suggestions welcome.

HarveyC

Registered:1212433117
Posts: 3,294

Posted 1389916763	Reply with quote #6

Yes, there have been some comments about pollination by a wasp being necessary to produce viable seeds and I have wondered if that was the case since some common figs that have not been caprified do seem to have crunch seeds. I have not tried germinating seeds myself. Pen, you seem to be referring to whether wasp pollination is required for a fig to persist and not drop off. jdsfrance is referring to viable seed requirements. __________________ Harvey - Correia Farms Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14 http://www.figaholics.com https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

HarveyC

Registered:1212433117
Posts: 3,294

Posted 1389916797	Reply with quote #7

I expect lampo will add some comments. :) __________________ Harvey - Correia Farms Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14 http://www.figaholics.com https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

DesertDance

Registered:1247674606
Posts: 4,518

Posted 1389917530	Reply with quote #8

I have a seedling from a bunch of Black Mission figs I bought at the grocery store. I threw them all on top of the soil in a 3 gallon pot, and they didn't do anything. I got impatient (which is not unusual for me), and decided my rooted Hardy Chicago cuttings would be happier in that pot. I kept the pot in partial shade and a couple Hardy Chicago cuttings definitely rooted. The others died, and I pulled them out. Then, one day a tiny stem with fig leaves popped up. It is not connected in any way to the cuttings in the pot. It's it's own breed. It may never bear fruit, and although the others have gone dormant, it has not. Teeny little thing. Definitely a fig. It has hardened to the sun, and I expect to put it in it's own pot and watch it grow. Jdsfrance, Your seedling has a massive trunk. Mine is basically a thin, woody stem. Weird. Suzi __________________ Zone 9b, Southern California. "First year they sleep, Second year they creep, Third year they leap!" Wish List: I wish all of you happy fig collecting! My wishes have been fulfilled!

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1389918587	Reply with quote #9

My seedlings, started in 10/2013 Panachee seed was taken from a store bought figs in CA, the BM and Lebanese from a neighborhood. I believe they had the wasp visits since we have plenty of them. They grow super fast and have been outside since the day 1. Attached Images Panachee.JPG (161.18 KB, 64 views) BlackMission.JPG (208.36 KB, 62 views) BlackLebanese.JPG (174.10 KB, 57 views) __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

hoosierbanana

Registered:1287901146
Posts: 2,186

Posted 1389941046	Reply with quote #10

Bonjour, it is possible for un-pollinated figs to have viable seeds through a phenomenon called apomixis. These apomictic seeds are in fact clones of the mother, although they might show some differences due to mutations. There is some info available, but not much. This type of seed is rare and most varieties will not make any viable seeds unless pollinated. I cleaned seed from dozens of figs last season and could not find a single one that was not hollow. What is most special about your seedlings is that they should be free from any viruses that the mother has. And, one is showing a mutation already with three cotyledons. Congratulations. __________________ 7a, DE

bullet08

Registered:1284496248
Posts: 6,920

Posted 1389960758	Reply with quote #11

rare, but it's possible i assume. in common fig that we eat in most of US, the male parts is not developed inside of the figs. it's all female parts. by some chance male part is developed, i assume it's possible to self pollinate. however, in general this doesn't happen. caprifig where both male and female parts gets developed, can provide pollen to capricate the figs. so, there has to be some fig with male part that gets developed to provide pollen for the this to happen. do you live near a nuclear power plant? i saw ton of 4 leaf clover near a nuclear power plant once. __________________ Pete Durham, NC Zone 7b "don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill "the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher *** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. * * and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...***

GregMartin

Registered:1370378358
Posts: 550

Posted 1390044002	Reply with quote #12

jdsfrance, I was thinking the same thing as Brent, apomixis. Roughly how many seeds did you plant to get these three? Apomixis offers some interesting possibilities for local adaptation due to epigenetics perhaps. It will be interesting to see if these seedlings are better adapted to your area than the mother tree. Thank you for the post. __________________ zone 5 Maine Seeking: Saint Martin, Naples White, Black Tuscan, Bécane, French Alps, Abruzzi, Tenica, Wild Mountain Figs from the coldest corners (Iranian, Turkish or other...would love seeds too)

jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1390053522	Reply with quote #13

I have said that I was expecting more births ... Here they are. At the bottom in between the two seedlings, here was the first "nest" . They started sprouting out there. Now it seems that at the opposite some more are "hatching" Still, lots of lost/unfertil seeds ... Sofar, the more advanced only have the cotyledons - still no new leaf. I'm curious to see what they will look like ... If they make it to that stage ... __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1390949215	Reply with quote #14

Hi, I just found the photos of "how it began :" Official start : 12th December 2013 Figs from the strain unknown from the Italian -ufti. So 4 figs used for the experience - the top most was attacked by a slug - They look cooked by the frost. Look at those seeds ! One can easily understand why I started this experience : Figs from an unknown strain of green figs Today Status: By the greens : 1 small plant . By the ufti : about 20 plants are born 4 where moved to a new pot because they roted - 3 seem saved for now/ 1 dried out 2 plants are now trying to make their first true tiny leaves __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1391207108	Reply with quote #15

Update. The first two tiny leaves from the ufti - the small grey stain is the enclosure of the seed. I have some 20 little trees - 3 of them are different - they have 3 cotyledons. On the photo at the top, you can see one of those mutated . I gave them 3 1 centimeters sticks of standard fertilizer. For the second pot with the green figs, there are in total 2 small trees now . __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

Aaron4USA

Registered:1375832059
Posts: 2,969

Posted 1391219438	Reply with quote #16

They look adorable, hehe. I have never seen, nor thought would need to, the process of seed breaking. Thanks so much @jdsfrance for making this possible for us all. Amazing documentation ;)

jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1392499762	Reply with quote #17

Hi, Follow up on the progress. Global view : The 3 bigs are cuttings and not seedlings. Here the 3-cotyledon is getting his third leaflet . The pot where the ufti seeds where put . The small weeds are showing their leaves - one is showing the third one. The brown stains on the ground is cinnamon... __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

chucklikestofish

Registered:1391263141
Posts: 1,316

Posted 1428668881	Reply with quote #18

Quote: Originally Posted by jdsfrance Hi, Follow up on the progress. Global view : The 3 bigs are cuttings and not seedlings. Here the 3-cotyledon is getting his third leaflet . The pot where the ufti seeds where put . The small weeds are showing their leaves - one is showing the third one. The brown stains on the ground is cinnamon... ~what is the cinnamon for ,if you don't mind ?? thanks,~ __________________

jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1428689467	Reply with quote #19

Hi, Cinnamon was a test for deterring the gnats . I'm not sure if it was efficient enough, so I didn't use that trick this year ... __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

chucklikestofish

Registered:1391263141
Posts: 1,316

Posted 1428691014	Reply with quote #20

Quote: Originally Posted by jdsfrance Hi, Cinnamon was a test for deterring the gnats . I'm not sure if it was efficient enough, so I didn't use that trick this year ... ~thanks~ worth a try i would say ~ __________________

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