Jules
Registered:1245417423 Posts: 16
Posted 1247558635
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#1
Hello Everyone, I am new to the the forum and am a fig beginner. I only have two Brown Turkeys (planted against a south-facing wall and protected in winter) but plan to expand my collection. My husband and I run a backyard nursery that specialises in grapes, berries and other small fruit plants. We are in Zone 6 and this limits our fig choices. Jon and I were talking about growing figs from seeds. I noticed that growing figs from seeds have not been touched in the forum, so I think that its a good idea to talk about it here so that there is a reference to it for those interested. Jon said - ` I don't think fig seeds would be a problem, but they do not come true to the parent. So there is no telling what you would get. Half would be male caprifigs, The rest might or might no have fruit, and most would not be great. I keep about 10 seedlings each year, just for fun, and have one winner, one promising, and one maybe.` How are the fruit from your seedling trees, Jon? How long did it take from seedling to fruit bearing? I have actually tried to germinate my Brown Turkey seeds but they did not germinate. An old German nursery guide book (G. Krüessmann 1954) states that fig seedlings from figs grown in Germany will not bear fruit. Has anyone else tried their hands at breeding fig plants? Juliana Austria
__________________ Austria
Zone: 6b
Bass
Registered:1188959030 Posts: 2,428
Posted 1247563032
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#2
Hello Jules,
figs require pollination in order to have viable seeds. A special insect known as the fig wasp is needed to pollinate the fig otherwise the seeds are empty inside. That insect only lives in the warmer parts of the mediterranean and has been imported into California in 1900. So if you're in Austria you can't get viable seeds since the wasp is not available there.
__________________ Pennsylvania http://www.treesofjoy.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/Trees-of-Joy/110193909021138
The_montreal_Fig
Registered:1202134065 Posts: 313
Posted 1247578627
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#3
Hi Jules, there is also this previous post on this subject http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=2471900&highlight=seeds
__________________ not in Montreal Z5b
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Jules
Registered:1245417423 Posts: 16
Posted 1247716100
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#4
Thanks for the info. Looks like I have a long way to go. Juliana
__________________ Austria
Zone: 6b
pitangadiego
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Registered:1188871011 Posts: 5,447
Posted 1247722183
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#5
Some seedlings are slow growing and fruited in 4-5th year, one fruited 2nd year (not normal), some have still not fruited after 10 years.
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Jules
Registered:1245417423 Posts: 16
Posted 1247725751
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#6
I could get seeds from the supermarket figs but they come from the south and I doubt that they can take our winters (even if potted and put in the cellar). Although the seedling is not true to parent, and is likely not to bear fruit, my general thinking is that it is more likely that seeds from hardy figs would be more hardy than seeds from imported southern figs. I think its worth a try. Good thing to know that my own seeds are useless. We dont have the fig wasp. A fig tree without fruit is ....half a tree. Some fig varieties are really so old. Its really interesting to read about them as described by someone a hundered years ago. It appears to me that time has stood still for figs. Given that its difficult to control cross pollination (its left to the female fig wasp), everything is left to chance. I am reminded of the days of E W Bull who planted more than 22, 000 seedlings and came up with the Concord grape. Since then, there are so many new varieties in the grape world. In figs, the trend here (Austria) is just to discover a fig, name it and market it....People do not check what it could be. Juliana
__________________ Austria
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nelson20vt
Registered:1248707604 Posts: 313
Posted 1252517407
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#7
I recently won a bid on Ebay for an Anatolian seed mix lol 7 varieties i believe assuming those seeds are viable they should germinate but wont come true from seed right? could either get something that fruits or get plants that look nice but no fruit correct?
__________________ Toronto, Ontario
Zone 5B/6
gorgi
Registered:1188888396 Posts: 2,864
Posted 1252518538
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#8
Maybe if you are 1/1000+ lucky! As the NY lottery commercial goes, you'll never know... Good luck.
__________________ George, NJ_z7a.
nelson20vt
Registered:1248707604 Posts: 313
Posted 1252518936
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#9
LMAO thanks gorgi thats the way I like it nice and blunt. Well on the bright side I can always learn how to graft with them thats if they even germinate.
__________________ Toronto, Ontario
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pitangadiego
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Registered:1188871011 Posts: 5,447
Posted 1252519945
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#10
Nelson, I bought some seeds, too, just because I want to play.
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nelson20vt
Registered:1248707604 Posts: 313
Posted 1252521731
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#11
Same here its my hobby really, I have germinated allot of different tropical fruits this year would like to give fig seeds a try and just see what happens.
__________________ Toronto, Ontario
Zone 5B/6
papayamon
Registered:1252148468 Posts: 284
Posted 1252542781
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#12
i would say that going from seed you'd have to be prepared to graft, otherwise the cycle is just too long. while you do get that wonderful mixing of genes, the numbers you'd have to grow and the energy you'd have to put in it is just more than i can attempt. hats off to you guys trying it.
__________________ mike
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pitangadiego
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Registered:1188871011 Posts: 5,447
Posted 1252559499
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#13
My seeds arrived today.
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Jules
Registered:1245417423 Posts: 16
Posted 1252565024
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#14
Would you start the seeds now or in spring? I know they need light to germinate and a temperature of 25 deg. Celsius. I am not sure to do it now or later.
__________________ Austria
Zone: 6b
nelson20vt
Registered:1248707604 Posts: 313
Posted 1252688099
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#15
Hey Jon did you get yours off Ebay as well? I have to check the mail today to see if they arrived.
__________________ Toronto, Ontario
Zone 5B/6
pitangadiego
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Registered:1188871011 Posts: 5,447
Posted 1252693816
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#16
Yes, they were from Ebay. If you keep them warm (in a plastic storage box with a 25 watt bulb) they should be good to go now.
__________________ Encanto Farms Nursery
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"pitangadiego" everywhere
nelson20vt
Registered:1248707604 Posts: 313
Posted 1252696077
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#17
Thanks Jon the seeds are just sprinkled on top of the soil right not buried?
__________________ Toronto, Ontario
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fignut
Registered:1189129552 Posts: 235
Posted 1252720778
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#18
Nelson, Figs grown from seeds will almost never ripen fruit unless pollinated. The figs will form, but shortly after the period when they require pollination, they will drop. So whether you have a male or a female fig seedling, there will be no ripe fruit. As Herman mentioned there are exceptions - figs fertilized by persistent caprifigs (the reason for the "almost" in the above paragraph). But there are very few of these caprifigs, and they are used mainly for breeding. The chances that your seeds had one of these as a father are astronomically small. So to get ripe fruit on the female seedlings, you will either have to live within the fig wasp's habitat (as Jon does in southern California) or hand pollinate all the figs you want to eat.
Juliana, The "seeds" from you Brown Turkeys were not seeds,as Bass mentioned. They are cenocarps - hollow shells without a seed embryo - and incapable of germinating . The German nursery guide is correct. But only because caprifigs (the seed fathers) determine weather a seedling fig will drop or ripen unpollinated fruit. And most of these males are non - persistent, so their progeny drop fruit. But if you acquire a persistent caprifig, and hand pollinate, you can produce seedlings that will not drop fruit (in Germany or anywhere else). The University of California at Davis has several available. I don't know what their policy is on shipping cutings overseas, but if you want to pursue breeding, it might be worth checking. But be warned it is a very long process with no guarantee of good results. That's why most of us are involved in finding existing varieties that will do well in our areas, and not creating more from seed.
nelson20vt
Registered:1248707604 Posts: 313
Posted 1252752942
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#19
Thank you Fignut I understand now.
__________________ Toronto, Ontario
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Jules
Registered:1245417423 Posts: 16
Posted 1252871951
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#20
Thanks Jon for the tip. Thanks Fignut for your reply. I have read all I can about figs repeatedly but it is still difficult to understand. But slowly, very slowly, thanks to experienced fig fans, I am starting to see some light. Its really fascinating. Even if I don`t get the fig of my dreams from the seeds I plan to plant, I will certainly learn a lot from the whole process. Is hand pollination really possible? Juliana
__________________ Austria
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nelson20vt
Registered:1248707604 Posts: 313
Posted 1253021639
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#21
Got my seeds yesterday time to start sowing.
__________________ Toronto, Ontario
Zone 5B/6
xgrndpounder
Registered:1230074708 Posts: 810
Posted 1253026806
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#22
Good luck Nelson
nelson20vt
Registered:1248707604 Posts: 313
Posted 1253027460
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#23
Thanks Cecil I dont have high expectations but always have fun growing things from seed and when it dosn't work out thats when the grafting begins lol.
__________________ Toronto, Ontario
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xgrndpounder
Registered:1230074708 Posts: 810
Posted 1253030595
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#24
Fun is what it is all about!
nelson20vt
Registered:1248707604 Posts: 313
Posted 1253640089
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#25
woohoooo OMG i know i know 99% of you dont believe in growing from seed but I put my seed tray on the heat mat yesterday and I took a peak today and two have germinated seems the Pink patlican and Balli are in the lead.
__________________ Toronto, Ontario
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xgrndpounder
Registered:1230074708 Posts: 810
Posted 1253640670
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#26
Congrats Nelson
That is almost like being a new Dad
Jules
Registered:1245417423 Posts: 16
Posted 1253641033
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#27
Good on you Nelson. I saw the seeds on sale on ebay. Those figs look gorgeous. No wonder you were tempted. Anatolia...native land of figs. sigh.
__________________ Austria
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nelson20vt
Registered:1248707604 Posts: 313
Posted 1253641042
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#28
Cecil ain't that the truth the heat mat really helped I just started these a week ago what joy lol. Yup Jules those were it the anatolian mix. Oh and on another note in march I will be a Daddy hehehe.
__________________ Toronto, Ontario
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xgrndpounder
Registered:1230074708 Posts: 810
Posted 1253642670
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#29
Then Super Congrats!
On the fixing to be a New Dad
nelson20vt
Registered:1248707604 Posts: 313
Posted 1253642867
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#30
Thank you Cecil I appreciate it
__________________ Toronto, Ontario
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Dieseler
Registered:1215735852 Posts: 8,252
Posted 1253655695
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#31
Jules , in future i look forward to hearing how things are going . A+ for at least trying ! Nelson, Congradulations !
nelson20vt
Registered:1248707604 Posts: 313
Posted 1253658888
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#32
Thanks Martin, I wonder if these seedlings will start sprouting like weeds before i left work i took another peek and I could see quite a few have a tap root going down already oh well step one has begon fruit set well thats a whole other chapter. Actually I just realized something theres 70 seeds in there if they all germinate what then lol hmm didnt think this far ahead.
__________________ Toronto, Ontario
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Dieseler
Registered:1215735852 Posts: 8,252
Posted 1253664782
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#33
Nelson, i dont know diddly squat qbout fig seeds but thinking when i sprout too many veggie plants in trays i pick out the strongest looking ones . Best Luck
nelson20vt
Registered:1248707604 Posts: 313
Posted 1253731143
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#34
Oh Martin these little guys are growing like weeds they are double the size from yesterday. I have two question when should I take the tray from the heat mat & when can they be transfered to their own containers? I know its too early now just wondering. Thanks
__________________ Toronto, Ontario
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JustineM
Registered:1253772594 Posts: 14
Posted 1253825475
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#35
Hi all,Not sure if I should start another thread or contribute to this one as it was recently active.
I live in Vancouver BC and am new to figs. My neighbours in the Commercial Drive area (Vancouver's Italian 'hood) are NOT! :-) There are many fig trees in fruit all over the neighbourhood.
Earlier this week I was thinning out overgrown tomato plants in my back garden and discovered what I believe is a volunteer fig tree at 8-10" height!
I think I've attached four images:
Three show the plant in question and one shows a leaf from my neighbour's confirmed fig tree that I laid on my garden wall for comparison.
Are you able to confirm whether this is a fig?
We had an extremely unusual, long, warm, dry summer this year. I'm wondering if the capriwasps headed north to avoid all that California smoke?
If it it a fig tree from a seedling, would it be possible to identify it before it fruits (if it fruits). Also, I believe Vancouver is zone 8b. If I leave it in my back garden unprotected, will it survive? (Vancouver has extremely rainy winters). The soil is took root in is 95% mushroom compost. The other 5% is kitchen waste compost.
Thank you in advance for your comments and advice.
Justine
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Dieseler
Registered:1215735852 Posts: 8,252
Posted 1253826049
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#36
Justine Welcome ! Yes thats 100% Italian fig plant, well maybe not italian i could not help myself. ; ) Seriously its a fig plant though. If it were me and my plant i would take care to make sure it comes back next year and not harmed to see if it bears figs since it seems to be a voulenteer fig plant. If all goes well let us know what happens next season.
JustineM
Registered:1253772594 Posts: 14
Posted 1253830591
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#37
Hello Martin and 'grazie' for the welcome to the forum! ;-)FIG = Friendly Interested Gardeners, I suspect!
If I have questions about giving this fig the best chances of survival over our rainy zone 8B Vancouver winter, should I redirect it to a different thread in the forum?
Also, is this plant too young to identify. Maybe it takes more than a leaf alone to identify a variety of fig?
Thanks again for the welcome and the fast reply to my question.
All the best,
Justine
Dieseler
Registered:1215735852 Posts: 8,252
Posted 1253834058
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#38
Justine , i sent PM to help.
paully22
Registered:1195324538 Posts: 2,719
Posted 1253848195
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#39
Fignut, you are 100% right. As it is, its already difficult to find a reliable variant to give me a reasonable crop with the right taste, flavour & be hardy, let alone for me to attempt to grow from seeds. Anyway, its an adventure for some & as always, isn't it true if we don't explore how could progress be achieved. I know a few things like I don't have lots of time left & I wish I had discover how great fresh figs taste when I was a teenager living in Australia with its milder winters. Its a little too late for me to try every figgie variants but thanks to so many contributors & kind fig friends, I am narrowing my priorities.
Jules
Registered:1245417423 Posts: 16
Posted 1254031355
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#40
Hello Justine Amazing a volunteer fig in your non Blastophagus psenes area. Adriano of `a fig in every household in Canada` fame also has a volunteer fig. It was mentioned in an article that Bass shared with everyone about Adriano. I did check my fig seeds and they were hollow mainly (as Fignut mentioned). I did the seed viability test - and most seeds floated in water. If you still have figs, and have time, could you check whether the seeds from your own fig bushes floated or sank in water? Those wasps are really tiny. To fly such a long way...???? Hi paully - I suspect that my dream fig is Hardy Chicago but....I shall wait until I can find a regional source that is reliable.
__________________ Austria
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JustineM
Registered:1253772594 Posts: 14
Posted 1276546881
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#41
Update to my posting last September!
Yes, the fig tree survived the winter. As you probably know from the Olympics coverage, Vancouver had a very pleasant and mild winter (particularly from a young fig's point of view). The fig survived just fine and started to leaf out in spring. As the first photo shows, it soon started to sprawl along the garden bed seeking out sun (it started to grow in a shady area of my back garden. Last week I dug it up and am trying to figure out what I should do! (Photos 2 & 3) I don't really have full sun except on my back patio. Wish I knew what variety of fig this one is so I can know whether I can grow it successfully (easily) in a pot. Hoping the more experienced among you can offer advice. Yours in appreciation... Justine
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FMD
Registered:1309800590 Posts: 1,327
Posted 1313084323
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#42
Wouldn't it be great to get updates on Justine's volunteer and Nelson's seedlings from over a year ago?
This is like an episode from "All My Children".
__________________Frank Tallahassee, FL Zone 8b North Florida Figs
nelson20vt
Registered:1259864353 Posts: 1,847
Posted 1313086571
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#43
Frank my seedling was already pruned back mid summer as it had surpased 7ft will take pics shortly. I also have 3 kadota seedlings and an Unkown seedling that grew in one of my pots no idea what it is .
__________________ Mississauga, ON, Canada Z5B/6A
JustineM
Registered:1253772594 Posts: 14
Posted 1313124887
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#44
Hi there!Very happy to contribute to the next installment of "All My Children"!
How nice that you are wondering how the little miracle fig plant fared all these months later.
After overwintering it in its original place of discovery back in the fall of 2009, I dug up the fig in the spring of 2010 and potted it - since the garden it emerged from is very small and meant for my modest veggie patch.
In the winter, I keep the pot in a warmer part of my garden (under the protection afforded by the outstretched boughs of a large spruce and evergreen magnolias) and place it in the sun during the warmer months. I increased the pot size this year although it's still rather small. The plant is probably only 3 feet tall. Still no signs of little figs.
I'm wondering if anyone out there might be able to identify the type based on leaf shape. They are deeply incised, like fingers -- and rather large. Here are some photos...
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FMD
Registered:1309800590 Posts: 1,327
Posted 1313145653
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#45
Thanks to both for the updates. I'm glad to hear of your children's progress. Don't give up on them because one never knows what genetic characteristics will eventually dominate.
Case in point:
I sprouted some fig seeds more than 15 years ago while living in NJ. When we moved to Florida I brought along the most vigorous sprout and planted it inground. The little thing loved his new home and took off like a rocket. Within the first year it was easily 10 feet tall dwarfing the rest of my fig trees.
It took several years before the first rudimentary figs started forming. These little nubs withered and fell off immediately. As the years passed, the errand specimen continued to grow into the prettiest thing you'd hope to see in a fig tree. It had the classic branched round canopied shape on a huge solid trunk.
I had the perfect looking fig tree loaded with small green fruits that would never reach maturity. Fortunately, I did not have the heart to chop it down because two years ago, the figs started to ripen for the first time and have done so ever since.
I wish that I could tell you that the resulting figs are the largest, juciest, sweetest fruit I've ever tasted. Nope, they are your regular run of the mill Celestes.
And so, ends another episode of As The World Turns.
__________________Frank Tallahassee, FL Zone 8b North Florida Figs
hoosierbanana
Registered:1287901146 Posts: 2,186
Posted 1313161429
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#46
That is truly amazing FMD, thank you for sharing. Where did you get the seeds from?
__________________ 7a, DE
FMD
Registered:1309800590 Posts: 1,327
Posted 1313164212
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#47
Sorry, hoosier, that was a long time ago and I was experimenting with a lot of different figs at the time. However, in retrospect it had to have been a Celeste, I would think.
__________________Frank Tallahassee, FL Zone 8b North Florida Figs
hoosierbanana
Registered:1287901146 Posts: 2,186
Posted 1313164857
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#48
But you grew the figs and did not pollinate them right? This sounds like apomixis to me. I have been doing my own experiments to try and achieve this, but now it looks like it can just happen on it's own. Here is the info I have found so far. And Ingevald's thread that predates mine.
__________________ 7a, DE
FMD
Registered:1309800590 Posts: 1,327
Posted 1313191853
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#49
I certainly was not pollinating my figs at the time. Until today, I had no idea what apomixis was. As a matter of fact, I still don't.. But I will refer you and everyone else to Europe where thousands of fig trees grow in cement cracks of bridges and overpasses and actually produce edible figs. I can assure you they were not planted from cuttings. Who knows.
__________________Frank Tallahassee, FL Zone 8b North Florida Figs
hoosierbanana
Registered:1287901146 Posts: 2,186
Posted 1313196201
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#50
Good to hear, I will be looking for viable seeds in unpollinated figs before I eat them then. Apomixis is basically a female plant cloning itself through seed, but there can be some mutation during cellular division, resulting in a slightly different plant. The big plus here is the lack of fig mosaic virus in the seedlings. I would like my UC Davis trees more if they did not suffer from the disease or carry it. But probably only certain varieties are able to produce seeds this way. And 13 years is a long time to wait!
__________________ 7a, DE