Fig Prospecting - Fase 1 - Brebas and Caprifigs

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Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1460762851 · Edited	Reply with quote #1

Bombarral region - near the train station: A few trees near the rails but no brebas. Then, inside an abandoned building, a huge tree, full of figs. Quite big figs so early in the season. Although they are already with leaves i am going to try to root some cuttings. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1460763383 · Edited	Reply with quote #2

Óbidos region. Last year i have spotted a tree near the road, full of brebas. Unusually big in early April. In the sun they looked almost black from a distance. This spring the owner gave the tree a heavy pruning, reducing its height more than half and abandoned the branches near the road. Although i only noticed it several days later, i took some cuttings that are already rooting. The tree is again full of brebas. I approached it to take some pictures. Nearby they are green, many with a few black markings. The figs seem different from the tree in Bombarral (shorter stalks). Will take some more pictures in a few weeks. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

GregMartin

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Posts: 550

Posted 1460763573	Reply with quote #3

Those are curious black markings! Anyone ever see anything like that before? __________________ zone 5 Maine Seeking: Saint Martin, Naples White, Black Tuscan, Bécane, French Alps, Abruzzi, Tenica, Wild Mountain Figs from the coldest corners (Iranian, Turkish or other...would love seeds too)

paully22

Registered:1195324538
Posts: 2,719

Posted 1460768646	Reply with quote #4

Wish I had weather like that. The only trees exhibiting heavy breba production in my yard are Latarrula, Granthams Royal, Desert King, Osborne Prolific and Conadria. Doing pretty good in pot culture is Ariane.

Smyfigs

Registered:1443660141
Posts: 1,658

Posted 1460769344	Reply with quote #5

Love fig prospecting! Great photos and train stations are the best for fig trees. __________________ Meg-Hardiness Zone 10a Looking for... Socorro Blk Wuhan Jolly Tiger Lamperia Preta Herschtetten St. Jean Black Ischia "The best way to show my gratitude is to accept everything, even my problems, with joy." ~ Mother Teresa "Do not pass by a man in need for you may be the hand of God to him." ~Proverbs 3:27~ "He performs wonders that cannot be fathomed, miracles that cannot be counted." ~Job 5:4

jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1460797377	Reply with quote #6

Hi, Nice trees ! The dark stains, I've seen some on wounded fruits. One it was from a caterpillar inside the fig . Another one the fruit was near the walkway and it was rubbing against my shoulders all the time. I like those short nodes on the stems. __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1460841415	Reply with quote #7

Thanks for your comments. Have no idea what the black markings are, Greg. Usually they are wounds, like jdsfrance says, but i am not so sure if this is the case because they also appear in figs that are isolated in the top of branches. Paul, The weather has been extremely rainy but the temperatures are warming up and stable, so the figs are developing well. Meg, This year i am serious about fig prospecting around here. I have dozens of fig trees located near by and i intend to check them during the season to see if i can find more good local fig varieties. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

lampo

Registered:1329071797
Posts: 2,061

Posted 1460879120 · Edited	Reply with quote #8

Jaime, Sorry... I did not notice this topic. These are nice discoveries ..So much fig Power! Could you show us cutaways of both Bombarral and Obidos figs?From the distance they seem to be old Caprifigs.. Please try and get a few close-ups of the cutaways If those abandoned trees were here, showing all that crop on last year wood, had few doubts! Most if not all Caprifigs in the wild on neighboring land down South show the same aspect and the figs are the Profichis with their load of wasps and pollen. There were also not so good Caprifigs 3 or 4 weeks ago but for lack of wasps from the winter crop, they have all aborted. If you have the time please keep an eye on them from now on Francisco

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1460930065 · Edited	Reply with quote #9

Hi, Francisco. You make a very good point. I didn't think of that possibility - they could be Caprifigs. I was looking for trees with Brebas and didn't think of Caprifigs, mainly because during the winter i searched for trees with figs and without leaves and i couldn't find any. But at least in the tree from Óbidos, i sincerely doubt it. It's clearly a cultivated tree. The owner has 3 fig trees in a row and this is the larger. The others don't have any figs. The tree didn't have any figs in the winter - i checked. Also, i sincerely doubt that someone would let a caprifig get so big in the middle of his land. And this spring it gave the tree a good pruning to be able to access the figs - the tree was quite tall. Furthermore, there's an identical tree in a house near by. It's loaded with the same figs. Also, it's the only fig tree in that backyard, adjacent to other fruit trees. I don't think someone would plant a caprifig in the middle of other fruit trees... Next weekend i will try to photograph the interior of a fig. As for the tree from Bombarral, it's another matter. The building is abandoned so it can be a wild tree. These are the only photos i have of the interior of the figs (it's not one of the bigger figs and it's quite immature but it seems different from the caprifigs photos i have seen). In the following weeks i will try to take some more. You said something that made me wonder... How would a Caprifig behave without wasps? Would it give the 3 crops? One of the trees i've been grafting was bought in a nursery and never gave a good fig. It produces brebas that get almost to a full size in some years but fall, immature. In the summer, the figs begin to develop, then shrivel and fall, still quite small. I always thought it was a San Pedro, lacking the pollination for the second crop, but it was never clear why it didn't manage to produce a single breba - could it be a caprifig? I have to take photos of the fig interior. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

brianm

Registered:1389664758
Posts: 971

Posted 1460934720	Reply with quote #10

Capri fig __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra,UC Davis Black Ischia, Maltese Raven

lampo

Registered:1329071797
Posts: 2,061

Posted 1460936430	Reply with quote #11

Hi Jaime, Sorry, reading your initial post I did not became aware that at least one tree was being looked after. You are rigth that tree if not producing edible fruit, the owner would not allow it to grow up to its actual size. The first picture of the cutaway you show now, is not what we expect from a Caprifig. This fig has its sinconium full of female flowers ( all of long style) which will develop to a breba if no other unforeseen factor interferes to abort those fruit. Let's see what the fruit from the other tree shows . As for your question of what happen to the wild fig in non wasp regions, I shall say that around here there are areas without many wasps, thus very few Caprifigs.. but here and there we see fruit on the few trees and some with developing wasps... but not many. What happened was that the majority of that particular crop not being visited by the insect at the receptive time, will abort and fall. I would not be surprised to see a few Caprifigs up north . Believe to have already mentioned to you, once located a small caprifig east of evora with developing wasps. I am also told that nurseries in the center bring trees for sale in the south and some are 'baforeiras' or caprifigs- with insects Many Smyrna and Common here, are now showing plenty of nice large figs which could be taken as their breba spring crop. The majority will not develop and we call them false brebas. Only the SanPedro and Cachopeiros get their spring crop ripen Francisco

brianm

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Posts: 971

Posted 1460938065	Reply with quote #12

Francisco are you thinking the photos are not Capri figs? I realized after stating it was a Capri fig that it may not be. __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra,UC Davis Black Ischia, Maltese Raven

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1460938931 · Edited	Reply with quote #13

Thanks for your comments, Brian and Francisco. As Francisco says, the fig from Bombarral seems full of female flowers so it's probably a Breba. And the other tree from Óbidos has an owner and it's probably cultivated also for his Brebas. Last year the tree was impressive. Full of large dark figs in the sun - that's what made me notice it. This year, when the owner pruned it, i gathered some of the abandoned branches (i didn't know how many days they were cut, but they still looked fresh), grafted one cutting to one of my trees and put the others directly on the ground. A couple of them developed figs while rooting and i let them grow. They are quite big now and seem darker than they are in the original tree (similar to what i remember to see last year from a distance), maybe because it's warmer where i have them (improvised greenhouse) >>Many Smyrna and Common here, are now showing plenty of nice large figs which could be taken as their breba spring crop. The majority will not develop and we call them false brebas.Only the SanPedro and Cachopeiros get their spring crop ripen. That's what intrigues me in this tree i am grafting. If it produces false brebas, the main crop should not need caprification. The brebas never mature (the one in the photo in the previous message has already fallen) and the main crop always falls (i assume for lack of caprification). Oh, well. I gave up on this tree. It now has the following varieties grafted - Inchário Branco, Inchário Preto, Bomfim, Branco Especial and Preto do Pó (local fig). A small Quarteira chip is still undecided (still alive though). This year i added, Negronne and Sbayi. 7 varieties in total, plus the original one, whatever it was - i still have 2 branches left from the original tree (the one that had the breba in the photo). And i was forgetting - a caprifig on top (your Code 2, Francisco). Now i have to wait for a few caprifigs to appear and try to introduce the wasp. It will be needed for the Inchários and possibly for Bomfim. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1461177741 · Edited	Reply with quote #14

Today i spotted a fig tree in the most improbable place. An ancient gas station, abandoned for at least a few years, in a road near my home that i never use. There it stands, in the beginning of the old carwash circuit. It has all the "symptoms" of a caprifig and it seems it's one. It's really funny that over the last few months i have looked everywhere for a caprig and couldn't find one and now here it is, less than a mile from my door. An open fig seems to prove it. It does not seem to have any wasps inside (only a small worm), but in this matter i am going to ask the help of those who have more experience with caprifigs. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

lampo

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Posts: 2,061

Posted 1461182190	Reply with quote #15

Hi Jaime, Thanks for showing those pictures Yes! This time, no doubt it's a Caprifig. It looks a Profichi with larvae inside the galls but not many! Try and inspect a few fruit on the lower side of some branches at least one picture shows a few yellowish figs positioned lower in the branch, which could probably be deteriorating Mamme figs (the previous crop)... wild figs growing up north do have thick flesh around the synconium to insulate the living creatures from the chilling of your nights. This fruit remembers me that one I found near Evora a couple of years ago. The living larva you see inside is a 'parasite' from some insect keen on piercing through the eye (which seems to have been chewed around to make a passage) .. It is not a wasp larvae.. too big and fat. wasp larvae are minute and you may eventually see a few inside the galls with a powerful lens. Hope this season you get a few wasps to try on your figs.. may be you have a few SanPedro and/or Smyrna.. good luck Francisco

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1461184442 · Edited	Reply with quote #16

Hi Francisco, Thanks for your confirmation. I don't know how to recognize the different caprifig crops and so i am a bit lost. You say they are Profichi and that the Mamme figs could still be in the lower branches. I have reviewed some old threads with some caprifigs photos you posted and as you say both crops (Mamme and Profichi) are on old wood. The tree has several branches coming out of the floor, but they all seem identical (at least in the leaves) The tree has some figs on the floor (dried and yellow and a few of these in some branches). Some figs are rounder with a shorter stalk and green color and others are slim with a longer stalk and also green - these seem still young. The fig i cut was in between (rounder than this young one's but still green) I know that the worm inside is probably from a fruit fly and not from a wasp. You say that there are probably larvae inside the galls, but not many. Do you mean the ones that are brown? These caprifigs should have wasps as you say. Otherwise they should have all fallen by now, isn't it? It would be nice to have so near a caprifig with larvae. Over here (Carnaxide) the minimum temperature in the winter is never below zero centigrades (32ºF). A bit different from where i have the fig trees (Caldas) where it reached -7ºC (19,4ºF) a few years ago. I sure would need the wasps for Inchário Branco and some of the turkish one's that are already showing minute figs. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

Timo

Registered:1439198835
Posts: 117

Posted 1461186053	Reply with quote #17

Interesting to see that the caprifigs in colder regions have thicker flesh to protect the wasps. What would be the coldest temperature that the wasp larvae can survive in these caprifigs with thick flesh?

lampo

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Posts: 2,061

Posted 1461192046 · Edited	Reply with quote #18

Jaime, The fig cutaway picture you show is in IMO definitely from a Profichi which together with the previous Mamme, shoot from the last year's wood -it contains the typical gall flowers (female, modified with short styles) and inside them, at least some may already be lodging wasp larvae. -inside the fig, just under the eye and along the 'tunnel' you may see a few of the the single stamen male flowers which provide the valuable pollen for caprification. -The previous crop (Mamme) may still hang on the lower side of some branches, rotting/drying or fell to the floor together with some aborted Profichi, Nature discarded as they couldn't get colonized by wasps -On the caprifig branches , a single branch may host one or more Mamme figs.. lower on the branch and 3, 4, 6, ..n times that number, of Profichis always positioned above the Mamme, sometimes in clusters right at the top of that branch. -It's very interesting what you say about fat and slim Profichi on the same tree. Here, for years,have tried to locate these slim figs with no success. Eisen mentioned these 'not so fat' Profichis in his writtings and called them ---'Polleniferous' caprifigs, the Profichis without wasps, just pollen, and ---'Insectiferous' caprifigs, the Profichis with wasps and pollen which are bigger more round You may try and cut one of these slim figs and see what they show inside. for more info on the types of flowers on a Caprifig you may visit this pages witn nice pics and sketches http://waynesword.palomar.edu/gallfig.htm Francisco

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1461192304	Reply with quote #19

Yes, Timo. I find that interesting also. Some of the caprifigs that Francisco has photographed seem to have less flesh than the one i found: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1286528847&postcount=25&forum=0 Another mention to the flesh insulation on caprifigs and the bigger problem to the wasps (according to Francisco), the heat waves: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1288218980&postcount=30&forum=0 __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

lampo

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Posts: 2,061

Posted 1461192724	Reply with quote #20

Quote: Originally Posted by Timo Interesting to see that the caprifigs in colder regions have thicker flesh to protect the wasps. What would be the coldest temperature that the wasp larvae can survive in these caprifigs with thick flesh? Timo Difficult to say but it's known that on some regions Caprifigs do survive through winters with temps bellow freezing but not continuously. There active caprifigs in Bulgaria for instance Francisco

Jsacadura

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Posts: 346

Posted 1461237094 · Edited	Reply with quote #21

Thanks for all the info on caprifigs, Francisco. Very interesting, as always. A few more pictures so you can enlighten us all about what we are seeing (i have several doubts) The position of the figs: The various types still on the tree: The first one (more wrinkled and soft) - Mamme?. It seems to show several wasps still inside the galls, that appear dead (didn't notice any movement inside the fig). If they are dead, it can't be because of cold weather - this was one of the warmer winters we had - minimum temperature in this location 3ºC (37ºF) The second one (similar to the first but more firm and still green) - mature Mamme? Apparently, no movement inside... The third one (the rounder and bigger fig) - immature Profichi or immature Mame? - curious cross pattern inside, very narrow cavity inside: The fourth one (the big stalk, slightly slimmer figs) - immature Profichi? It doesn't have the same cross pattern as the other and the interior cavity is much wider. The photo shows a wasp inside - trying to lay eggs? (didn't see any wasps around the opening of the figs) __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

lampo

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Posts: 2,061

Posted 1461240213 · Edited	Reply with quote #22

Hi Jaime Your Caprifig is still an infant and going through its adapting to the environment. But it's a nice beginning. You may have a few more in the area. Everywhere, Mamme and Profichi crops overlap.. which is the case with this fig. What you witnessing there now, happened here around 30 days ago when Mamme ripens, starts drying and wasps come out an migrate into the young Profichi. The wasp seen on that cutaway is laying her eggs on the still empty galls. It seems to me that its ovipositor is a short one so, a genuine, good Blastophaga psenes. Believe also that the ongoing rains in the area may have somehow affected the various Nature's moves. However the timing makes a lot of sense From the time a wasp egg is laid on a Profichi gall, count 90 days for the next generation to be ready to leave the Profichi and vector pollen to the surrounding figs .. or Say that by mid July the eventual Smyrna - Common - and San Pedro figs in the area shall be receptive for pollination and that you may also see wasps with another load of eggs and pollen to exit the Profichis which at that time shall be ripe and falling from the tree From this new set of pictures, IMO all Profichis on that tree are 'insectiferous' Hope you manage to get enough figs by mid July to present to your receptive varieties in the farm as well as to some small fruit from the shoots eventualy coming from the 'code' grafts Good luck Francisco PS: further down on the IC19 you have a village called Cabrafiga.. been asking myself -Why that name?..not too far from you !

Jerry_M

Registered:1427223807
Posts: 344

Posted 1461242057 · Edited	Reply with quote #23

Hi Jaime, this thread has been most interesting to read. The photos are great and very informative. Best I have ever seen. Thanks for starting this thread. __________________ Jerry Canyon Lake, TX 8b Wanted: Cajun Gold, Louisiana Honey, Schar Israel-114 grams

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1461242183 · Edited	Reply with quote #24

Thanks, Francisco. I hope that mid July is not too late to pollinate the Smyrnas that i already have. Last year the Inchário Branco graft was like this in the 25th of July (probably almost receptive to pollination): We will see... I already have small figs in some turkish varieties but, as you said, these usually fall. Leaving the cut figs to rest i am now beginning to see some movement. I have live wasps in the second and third type of figs (mature Mamme?) and rounder and bigger Profichi or late Mamme?. Strangely they seem to coexist and overlap as you said. In both cases, it seems i can see wasps leaving these 2 types of figs what is somewhat confusing if the third type is a Profichi (not so much if it's a late Mamme - as it should be). The slimmer Profichi (fourth type) seems more immature. A male or a female with the wings damaged? I also saw several false fig wasps: I believe these are not desirable, because they don't pollinate and can lay their eggs in normal female flowers (non caprifigs) that won't produce seeds. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1461242372 · Edited	Reply with quote #25

The pleasure is mine, Jerry. And with the possibility of the expert comments of Francisco we can all be more informed about these chapter of the fig cycle that (at least to me) was really confusing, despite all the articles i had read. Experiencing it first hand is quite different. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

lampo

Registered:1329071797
Posts: 2,061

Posted 1461254493	Reply with quote #26

Quote: Originally Posted by Jsacadura Thanks, Francisco. I hope that mid July is not too late to pollinate the Smyrnas that i already have. Last year the Inchário Branco graft was like this in the 25th of July (probably almost receptive to pollination): We will see... I already have small figs in some turkish varieties but, as you said, these usually fall. Leaving the cut figs to rest i am now beginning to see some movement. I have live wasps in the second and third type of figs (mature Mamme?) and rounder and bigger Profichi or late Mamme?. Strangely they seem to coexist and overlap as you said. In both cases, it seems i can see wasps leaving these 2 types of figs what is somewhat confusing if the third type is a Profichi (not so much if it's a late Mamme - as it should be). The slimmer Profichi (fourth type) seems more immature. A male or a female with the wings damaged? I also saw several false fig wasps: I believe these are not desirable, because they don't pollinate and can lay their eggs in normal female flowers (non caprifigs) that won't produce seeds. Jaime, most interesting pictures you are showing all of us If I may I would like to summerize this business as - What is happening through the last hours of the fig wasp life inside the Mamme fig - It would be great if you could have switched your camera to the 'video mode' when taking second and third pictures on this thread.. there is action there !!! - there is a female (black) wasp liberating herself from the gall..it's complete with wings and all - Just under the wasp at 6 o'clock you show a translucent/almost transparent honey colored 'arc' with a gentle bend to the right... and this is the male wasp member searching a female still inside her gall the intention being to fertilize her before she comes out of the gall.. see?? Slightly above the tip of that arc, at approx 2 o'clock we can see the heads of two male wasps, certainly involved in similar fertilization activities....a full orgy with Nature's benediction !! - Male wasps are wingless almost transparent and honey colored... the head being darker Male wasps follow then to excavate a tunnel opening the passage for the fertilized females to get to the fig eye from the inside and fly out to the young Profichis. Meanwhile the males die Similar activities may also be seen on the following picture So Congratulation Jaime ! You have good, diligent wasps at your door step Get your Smyrnas with plenty of sun, fertilize, irrigate, etc.. to make sure they shall be receptive by mid July and onward The parasite you show is called on some regions 'machorro' ... it pierces the synconium from the exterior of the fruit Francisco

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1461258101	Reply with quote #27

Francisco, I forgot that the male was not black but honey colored. I have seen two know: Here's a better picture of a female: I have also filmed a few seconds of the male and the female. When i have the time i will try to post it online. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

lampo

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Posts: 2,061

Posted 1461316725	Reply with quote #28

It would be interesting to have these clips and pictures as genuine documents to illustrate the various phases of the 'life and work' of the carica fig pollinators. Francisco

Jsacadura

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Posts: 346

Posted 1468439773	Reply with quote #29

Update - Fig tree in the Bombarral region. I had the opportunity to check this tree again and i have some more photos of the Brebas. They are big. Unfortunately, i couldn't get a truly mature one because there were very few and they were all still immature and even then the birds have eaten most of them. One other time i passed in this location i saw some people gathering by the tree and picking figs, so they must be good. I tasted the pulp and it has a good flavor although not ripe yet. Nevertheless, the biggest Breba that i opened seems odd inside, like it also has male flowers. What do you think? The tree is already covered with second crop figs. I will try to keep up with them to see if they develop and how they are like when mature. Some photos: __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1470181543	Reply with quote #30

The second crop of Bombarral fig tree is still growing. Curious to see a ripe one. I remember seeing this ribbed look in some Caprifigs, but when I reviewed some Francisco photos in old threads the ribbed look also appears in figs like Cótio-Verdeal - http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/c%C3%94tia-verdeal-6514582?highlight=verdeal&pid=1279439681 A few more weeks and i will know if they are worth it. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

lampo

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Posts: 2,061

Posted 1470196203	Reply with quote #31

Quote: Originally Posted by Jsacadura The second crop of Bombarral fig tree is still growing. Curious to see a ripe one. This is a heavy producer Also curious to see what comes next. It would be great if it was C/Verdeal but,... the leaves are different Good luck Francisco I remember seeing this ribbed look in some Caprifigs, but when I reviewed some Francisco photos in old threads the ribbed look also appears in figs like Cótio-Verdeal - http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/c%C3%94tia-verdeal-6514582?highlight=verdeal&pid=1279439681 A few more weeks and i will know if they are worth it.

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1470223529	Reply with quote #32

Thanks, Francisco. The leaves seemed a bit different but i wanted your opinion. It sure is a heavy producer. At first i even suspected it could be a caprifig but the first cut Brebas and the long-styled female flowers they had cleared that option. Nevertheless, one of the last cut Brebas confused me. Have you seen the photo where this Breba almost seems to have male flowers inside? __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

lampo

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Posts: 2,061

Posted 1470236950	Reply with quote #33

Jaime, On your last picture (breba cutayat) there is in fact a bush of staminate flowers and they must have some pollen. If you get a portion of that pollen by the time the fruit is ripe you could try and manually pollinate a few of your Common and/or Smyrnas/San Pedro which, growing in the same environment, should be receptive and ready to accept it and mature with fertile seeds. Selecting the fertile seeds and germinate them separately you stand a good chance of helping new fig varieties to show up and with full 'in house' parentage'. But you need to isolate the whole exercise from any wasps and Caducous caprifigs) Good luck (PS- Pingo de Mel brebas could as well be a good candidate to provide pollen)

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1470237882 · Edited	Reply with quote #34

Thanks, Francisco. I simply didn't realize that non caprifig trees could produce flowers with pollen until now. Reading this old thread you mentioned in another post as helped to shed some light on it - https://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/fig-breeding-steps-5200745?&trail=50 Specially this post - https://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1286327621&postcount=31&forum=0 The more i read on figs the more they keep surprising me at every corner of the way to understand them. Edit - i didn't read that old thread all the way through before making this post and it sure went overboard (i think it was a scientist excitement of figuring new things out, like an Eureka moment :-), but the point remains - some Breba can produce pollen. I never knew that until now. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

Smyfigs

Registered:1443660141
Posts: 1,658

Posted 1470253824	Reply with quote #35

Ah, so amazing to see these close-up photos, Jaime! And, the great details by Francisco...wow, really great information. Thank you! __________________ Meg-Hardiness Zone 10a Looking for... Socorro Blk Wuhan Jolly Tiger Lamperia Preta Herschtetten St. Jean Black Ischia "The best way to show my gratitude is to accept everything, even my problems, with joy." ~ Mother Teresa "Do not pass by a man in need for you may be the hand of God to him." ~Proverbs 3:27~ "He performs wonders that cannot be fathomed, miracles that cannot be counted." ~Job 5:4

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1475173757	Reply with quote #36

I finally got a chance to go by the Bombarral train station fig tree to check the second crop. They were still ripening in early August - http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1292999320&postcount=30&forum=0 Unfortunately, it's too late now and most of the figs were eaten by birds and the one's remaining are badly split by rain. They were still sweet and it's clearly a very rounded honey fig, but it will have to check it next year as the flavour was affected by the water. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

figoffrandy

Registered:1461101026
Posts: 33

Posted 1475200054	Reply with quote #37

Must be nice to stumble upon a blastophaga colony, I envy you Mediterranean-climate growers __________________ Georgia - Zone 8a My Current Figs: O'Rourke, LSU Tiger, LSU Scott's Black, LSU Hollier, LSU Improved Celeste, LSU Scotts Yellow, LSU Champagne, LSU Gold, LSU Purple, Strawberry Verte, Col de Dame Noir, Figo Preto, Nero 600 M, Raspberry Latte, Chicago Hardy, Celeste, Brown Turkey, Violette de Bordeaux, Kadota Wish List: RdB, Colonel Littman's Black Cross

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