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Radtechg9

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Hello Fig Experts!
Our local Rare Fruit growers club sale is about to deliver and I am seeking some guidance. I am in Phoenix and most of my planting area has afternoon sun. I planned to get about 15 trees,among them a Panache Tiger, Desert King, Texas Blue Giant and a Violette De Bordeaux. Problem is reports are the VDB does not do well with the afternoon heat here in Phoenix. I need to swap out for another variety. I am not into keeping trees in pots. My options are as follows....
Purple Smyrna
Lattarula
Peters Honey
Janice Seedless Kadota
Kadota
Ischia

Any recommendations that stand out to you all?
Best Regards,
Radtechg9
Jeannine
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Growing in Phoenix...Black Mission Fig, LSU Purple Fig, Starfruit, Wonderful Pom, Coconut Cream Mango, Southern Blush Mango, Barbados Cherry, Variegated Pink Lemon, Shangri La Mulberry, Tangelo, Crescent Sweet Orange, Lisbon Lemon, Dwarf Mulberry, Teas Weeping Mulberry, Nagami Kumquat, Christmas Loquat, two Black Sphinx Date Palm, Garden Prince Almond, Antonio Mango, Papaya, Texas Blue Giant Fig, Desert King Fig, Tiger Panache Fig, Violette de Bordeaux, Red Baron Peach, May Pride Peach, Parfianka Pomegranate, Dwarf Orinoco Banana, Champagne Loquat, Red Cripps Apple, Golden Dorsett Apple, Dwarf Cavendish Banana.
brettjm

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Hmm.  Not sure any of those will satisfy the void left by the VDB, as most of them are honey/sugar type figs.  Not to say that any of them are bad though!  Lattarula, Peter's honey, and Kadota are supposed to be quite similar in many regards, but Peter's Honey is definitely a favorite for many (browse enough "favorite fig" threads, and you'll see it listed a lot).  Ischia could also be good...I'm guessing its the tissue culture "ischia green," which pops up a lot whenever someone starts a thread for "underappreciated" or "underrated" figs.  Not sure how the tissue culture one compares to the normal ischia green.  Probably the same, but it might not be.

Personally, if it were me, I would either go after the Peter's Honey, or say screw it and go for the VDB.  It truly might be worth it to keep that VDB, and try to give it some afternoon shade.  Better still, plant it nice and deep to get good roots and when it gets bigger, keep it pruned back a bit to help the roots keep up with the leaves.  Mine certainly wilted in the GA heat last summer, but that's pretty common for this variety I think.  Seems to always bounce back.
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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
VdB has droopy leaves in afternoon sun but it recovers fine after sunset.  I'd go ahead and plant it or another berry flavored fig.  Maybe a Col de Dame?
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Zone 6, MO

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Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
starch

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
This is one of those things regarding VdB. It appears there are two main "VdBs" around.

Mine (from Bay Flora Nursery in 2013) is small slow grower (4 years old and only 4 feet) tall. But it is super-productive (got at least 3 dozen figs last year off this small tree) and it handles the summer heat like a champ. In fact it has western exposure with reflected heat off an eastern wall. Basically the worst exposure a tree can have in phoenix and it handled the heat just fine. No droopy leaves or anything like that.
And the figs are wonderful! Very small, but a very intense figgy and berry flavor, with overtones of raspberry.

Since yours will be coming from Dave Wilson, I am not sure which strain of VdB you will get.
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Location: USDA Zone 9b / Sunset 13. Chandler, AZ
Currently producing fruit and scions: Violette de Bordeaux, Panache, Black Mission, Black Jack, Smith, Col de Dame Gris, Marseilles Black VS, Red Lebanese (Bekaa)
Small Trees / Currently rooting: lots
Wish List: Ponte Tresa, Italian 258, Genovese Nero (not Rob's)
levar

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Purple Smyrna: Does Phoenix have the fig wasp? Smyrna type figs require pollination for ripening. Is "Purple Smyrna" exempt?

Do you know what kind of Ischia - whether it's black or green?

I'm also going to recommend going with a similar tasting fig. And I agree with both brettjm & rcantor about how the VdB recovers from mid-day drooping and how maybe just partial sun or mid-day shade could do the trick.

Ronde de Bordeaux doesn't have that problem in my area (Miami), which gets pretty brutal during the summer. I haven't had a good VdB yet but I've had good RdBs, so I can't compare the two. That said, RdB for me so far has tasted like a cross between a Black Mission and a raspberry. Just something to consider.

And! I grow Texas Blue Giant and it's kind of disappointing in my rainy, humid part of the world. The flavor profile is excellent but it retains too much water, the flavor becomes diluted, and it often splits. I was thinking it might be stellar in arid climates so if you decide on doing TBG, please keep us/me updated on how it performs in Phoenix. I truly feel like it could be a great fig under the right conditions. 
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Wishlist

Figs: Fiaschetta lunga di Campagnola, Unk Pastiliere, Cajun Gold, Marangiana, Rigato del Salento, Black Ischia, St. Rita, Dottato d'Élia, Watt's Zingarella, Zidi, Macool, 187-25, Peter's Honey, Peloponnisiaka aspra sika, and Martinenca Rimada.

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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
I like peter's honey, very sweet medium to large figs.
It also has thick leaves that don't droop in the heat.

Texas blue giant is probably better in hot and dry climates. I had one that I put under the over hang of the roof on the hot concrete driveway and it tasted very good.


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(Zone 12a) Big Island, Hawaii, 2,400 ft elevation, Fern Forest. Avg. July High 77,Avg.Jan.Low 56 Precipitation days 290, annual rainfall 201.80 inches.
AltadenaMara

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 

May I suggest you not limit yourself to whatever you find from your club sale and broaden your choices. The world is your market when it comes to choosing fig trees. When I was looking for some heat blast resistant figs for my SoCal area, members on another board recommended for full sun: Long Yellow, Zingarella/Aldo, Unk Pastilliere, Golden Celeste, El Molino, Panachee, Scott's Black, MBVS, Havasu Purple. “The figs do not dry up and stay nice and plump after the extreme sun exposure.” It was also suggested to grow Battaglia Green, California Brown Turkey, and, if you have the wasp, figs with a Calimyrna heritage.

You might think about growing VdB in a pot in full sun, then moving it to an afternoon shade location somewhere during the burning season, even if you have to construct some shade cloth. It has a delicious flavor and is worth the trouble.  

Too much time, money and effort is wasted trying to grow trees that refuse to grow where they are planted. Also trees that you baby for five or ten years only to produce fruit nothing will eat but fruit worms or a starving bird.

Check out the different fig flavors (search "fig flavor") and perhaps start with one of each, especially ones with good tasting breba crops so you get more than one crop a year. Then you can add choices as you discover the tastes you like best. You might fine tune your choices with several trees that offer a continuous succession of good fruit. It might take a little homework searching the fig boards but it’s worth it.

I have to warn you, you might discover you like ALL the figs you taste. Then you’re in big trouble. :) 
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Mara  Southern California  Zone 1990= 9b   2012= 10a  2020=?

 
npolaske

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
I'm in Oracle, which is obviously a bit cooler than Phoenix (~10-15 F during summer), but our sun is possibly more intense during the summer since we're at 5000 ft and the air is thinner. As others stated earlier, I have noticed the leaves drooping a bit during the days we get over 100F, but they always perk back up in the evening and the fruit quality does not seem affected (although I admit I have not tried a VdB from another climate).

Personally, I would stick with it. It's an excellent fig that is early in the hot desert climate. As an added bonus, I find that the figs ripen faster than most, meaning the birds have less time to get them!
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Oracle, AZ
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Jodi

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
I'm so excited to hear there is an AZ chapter exchange. I have been reading about all the great CA exchanges and it has me interested in attending. Where, when, etc? Thanks so much as I have been unable to find current info for 2016. Yea!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radtechg9
Hello Fig Experts!
Our local Rare Fruit growers club sale is about to deliver and I am seeking some guidance. I am in Phoenix and most of my planting area has afternoon sun. I planned to get about 15 trees,among them a Panache Tiger, Desert King, Texas Blue Giant and a Violette De Bordeaux. Problem is reports are the VDB does not do well with the afternoon heat here in Phoenix. I need to swap out for another variety. I am not into keeping trees in pots. My options are as follows....
Purple Smyrna
Lattarula
Peters Honey
Janice Seedless Kadota
Kadota
Ischia

Any recommendations that stand out to you all?
Best Regards,
Radtechg9
Jeannine
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In the book the "The Meaning of Trees" it is said the fig regulates the heart and that the true essence of Figs is...food for the soul.
Daisy's IBT cuttings will be available in January/February along with a few Lampeira Parda.  
Wishes for Martinenca Rimada, Black Ischia, I258, CddRoja, Jolly Tiger, Your favorite Figgy!
Zone 8a Camp Verde AZ 
Radtechg9

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Thank you so much for the input!
Jodi... the website is http://www.azrfg.org/  and the tree sale website is http://www.azrfgtreesale.org

As for those that mentions the leaves droop but pop back up as sun goes down. I am planning an Espalier fence in the front yard with 4 figs that will be full sun all summer. As the figs will not be in tree form I think the VDB would be in even further stress and do even worse in this particular form. I will likely still get the VDB and find a shadier spot for it but would like a 4th fig to complete my espalier fence. I will go with the Peter's Honey as the additional I think. I have heard good things from multiple sources here in Phx and now on here.
As far as the TexasBlue Giant...it does do well here. Several people I know have them and they grow very nicely. I am excited to have it in my collection.

Starch.....are you talking about the VDB Versus the dwarfing bush Petit Nigra (supposed to be like a dwarf variation of vdb that is more sun hardy)? The VDB I am getting is not the more sun hardy variety.

Regards,
Radtechg9
Jeannine
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Growing in Phoenix...Black Mission Fig, LSU Purple Fig, Starfruit, Wonderful Pom, Coconut Cream Mango, Southern Blush Mango, Barbados Cherry, Variegated Pink Lemon, Shangri La Mulberry, Tangelo, Crescent Sweet Orange, Lisbon Lemon, Dwarf Mulberry, Teas Weeping Mulberry, Nagami Kumquat, Christmas Loquat, two Black Sphinx Date Palm, Garden Prince Almond, Antonio Mango, Papaya, Texas Blue Giant Fig, Desert King Fig, Tiger Panache Fig, Violette de Bordeaux, Red Baron Peach, May Pride Peach, Parfianka Pomegranate, Dwarf Orinoco Banana, Champagne Loquat, Red Cripps Apple, Golden Dorsett Apple, Dwarf Cavendish Banana.
starch

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Jeannine,

That is the problem. Many people lump VdB / Negronne / Petite Negra (or Negri) all in the same group and some go so far to say that they are the same tree.

And I don't think they are. There was some thread late last year where a poster was talking about his VdB and it was a very fast grower in CA (several feet of growth in a year). And between his VdB and my VdB we compared leaves and fruit shape, color, size size and fruit tasting notes. And based only on those you would think they were from the same tree. But based on growth rate it is clear they are not. I bet if we compared sun tolerance, he would have pointed out drooping leaves whereas mine does not.

Mine was sold to me as Violette de Bordeaux. But seeing as how most fig people say VdB and Petite Negra are equivalent if not the same plant, it might be a Petite Negra and just sold as VdB. This could be the case that I am showing the difference (to someone who lives in a hot environment) and why the distinction might matter.
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Location: USDA Zone 9b / Sunset 13. Chandler, AZ
Currently producing fruit and scions: Violette de Bordeaux, Panache, Black Mission, Black Jack, Smith, Col de Dame Gris, Marseilles Black VS, Red Lebanese (Bekaa)
Small Trees / Currently rooting: lots
Wish List: Ponte Tresa, Italian 258, Genovese Nero (not Rob's)
Radtechg9

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Starch,
hmmmm....yes I see the issue.The Rare fruit growers is actually offering a distinct VDB and a Petite Negra dwarfing bush (better in afternoon sun apparently). Are you a member of the AZRFG being in Chandler you are not very far from their Mesa area meeting place or sales? They are having a grafting course this Saturday.

I am going to get the VDB and just stick it somewhere a bit more sheltered. I'll find a spot, who knows where!

Regards,
Jeannine
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Growing in Phoenix...Black Mission Fig, LSU Purple Fig, Starfruit, Wonderful Pom, Coconut Cream Mango, Southern Blush Mango, Barbados Cherry, Variegated Pink Lemon, Shangri La Mulberry, Tangelo, Crescent Sweet Orange, Lisbon Lemon, Dwarf Mulberry, Teas Weeping Mulberry, Nagami Kumquat, Christmas Loquat, two Black Sphinx Date Palm, Garden Prince Almond, Antonio Mango, Papaya, Texas Blue Giant Fig, Desert King Fig, Tiger Panache Fig, Violette de Bordeaux, Red Baron Peach, May Pride Peach, Parfianka Pomegranate, Dwarf Orinoco Banana, Champagne Loquat, Red Cripps Apple, Golden Dorsett Apple, Dwarf Cavendish Banana.
starch

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Hey Jeannine,

Yep, I am an AZRFG member and am definitely going to the scion exchange / grafting class on Saturday. Hopefully it will be a good turn out!
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Location: USDA Zone 9b / Sunset 13. Chandler, AZ
Currently producing fruit and scions: Violette de Bordeaux, Panache, Black Mission, Black Jack, Smith, Col de Dame Gris, Marseilles Black VS, Red Lebanese (Bekaa)
Small Trees / Currently rooting: lots
Wish List: Ponte Tresa, Italian 258, Genovese Nero (not Rob's)
starch

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Posts: 123
Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Jeannine, James has Petite Negri available for shipping this summer: http://www.figcuttings.com/p/fig-trees-for-sale.html
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Location: USDA Zone 9b / Sunset 13. Chandler, AZ
Currently producing fruit and scions: Violette de Bordeaux, Panache, Black Mission, Black Jack, Smith, Col de Dame Gris, Marseilles Black VS, Red Lebanese (Bekaa)
Small Trees / Currently rooting: lots
Wish List: Ponte Tresa, Italian 258, Genovese Nero (not Rob's)
Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
You might also consider Vista which is supposed to be very similar to VdB and might not have the heat sensitivity.  (Maybe others with experience can weigh in on this.)  There are several members in Arizona that could give useful advice, such as FrozenJoe.
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Steve MD zone 7a
Radtechg9

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Thanks starch,
I would just grab the Petite Negri from the AZRFG sale if I was going to get it,convenience of it being right there. I am moving a tree I was not in love with anyway and opening up a shady spot for my incoming VDB.
As it is my fencing area will have 3 figs on it. I have 2 other fence panels to "espalier" fruit to....what I might do is an "every other" fig and select two other fruits to have a variety. Seeing as I already have a Black Mission tree in the front yard as well. My goal was to keep the fruit in the front yard not as "obvious" or "steal worthy".I guess I figured an apple or peach was obvious to most but the figs the majority of the population might not even see or know what they were honestly so they wouldn't be thefting from my front fence. I will think upon my 2 other fence panels for other fruit ideas that might fit the "not so steal worthy" to the general public bill ;)
-Jeannine
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Growing in Phoenix...Black Mission Fig, LSU Purple Fig, Starfruit, Wonderful Pom, Coconut Cream Mango, Southern Blush Mango, Barbados Cherry, Variegated Pink Lemon, Shangri La Mulberry, Tangelo, Crescent Sweet Orange, Lisbon Lemon, Dwarf Mulberry, Teas Weeping Mulberry, Nagami Kumquat, Christmas Loquat, two Black Sphinx Date Palm, Garden Prince Almond, Antonio Mango, Papaya, Texas Blue Giant Fig, Desert King Fig, Tiger Panache Fig, Violette de Bordeaux, Red Baron Peach, May Pride Peach, Parfianka Pomegranate, Dwarf Orinoco Banana, Champagne Loquat, Red Cripps Apple, Golden Dorsett Apple, Dwarf Cavendish Banana.
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