FMV? maybe, Mites? yes!

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hoosierbanana

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Posted 1409437516	Reply with quote #1

Having recently purchased a handheld 40x microscope I discovered that many of my trees hosted eriophyid mites. The symptoms are different from the mites Dan Foster discovered. It is my belief that his were rust mites, while mine were bud mites. Determining the species would have been impossible as they are microscopic, roughly the size of an individual leaf hair. Their size makes them very difficult to spot, even with a microscope. I had been treating all new plants and cuttings with either soap or rubbing alcohol, but now knowing more about this mite I can say I was wasting my time. So I treated all plants in affected areas with either Avid, or Forbid (which is only labeled for non-bearing fruit trees). After 2 weeks I am seeing dramatic decline in mottling/spotting symptoms, while deformed branches seem to not benefit from the treatment at all and continue to produce deformed leaves. I also noticed an association between the brown spots on figs which many members, including myself, have reported seeing this season. The spots develop along with the leaf, they are not visible when the leaf first emerges. lower leaves of above I think the leaf below on the left shows a dramatic stop to the damage, having none towards the center and then a totally symptom free leaf. lower leaf of above, typical symptoms of high mite levels. Spots on leaves, spots on figs. Deformed growth remains unchanged by treatment Some plants were chopped back in an attempt to judge FMV transmission, several new growths emerge having both healthy and various levels of deformed leaves, deformed growths are removed. Spotting on these plants is completely gone, what i call a cure. I have also purchased Azatrol to vary the pesticide and avoid resistance, at this time I can no longer find mites and hope it stays that way. While I do not fully understand the issue, and hope to not learn any more about it through personal experience. I hope the evidence I have shown compels other members to investigate the issue. I will update semi-weekly, maybe. __________________ 7a, DE

drphil69

Registered:1390113240
Posts: 803

Posted 1409437981	Reply with quote #2

Thanks Brent, great detective work! __________________ Phil - Zone 7A - Newark, DE Newbie fig lover just trying to learn.

SCfigFanatic

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Posts: 143

Posted 1409440367	Reply with quote #3

Sevin dust? Some love it some hate it. I use it. Doug

hoosierbanana

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Posts: 2,186

Posted 1409441939	Reply with quote #4

Have you seen any symptoms like that at all Doug? Sevin is a much more economical option... and you probably did get some mites this season. I apologize and am glad you do what you do. p.s. forgot to say I chose to use targeted miticides to avoid hurting the good guys, they are fine so far. __________________ 7a, DE

SCfigFanatic

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Posts: 143

Posted 1409445732	Reply with quote #5

Yes I have seen it. I put the sevin in a ladies hose and sprinkle it on the leaves. I try not to touch the stuff. It works great on mites. Doug

rafaelissimmo

Registered:1335639347
Posts: 1,473

Posted 1409446205	Reply with quote #6

This is pretty amazing stuff. Thank you. My Brooklyn White has a branch that has grown slowly with deformed leaves and spotted fruit, it used to be the main branch of the plant! I also had some kind of mites earlier this year. I kinda hope this goes away next year, and doesn't spread to healthy trees. Studying it is beyond my capabilities right now. __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

hoosierbanana

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Posts: 2,186

Posted 1409447390	Reply with quote #7

Sevin should work because it is systemic, I think. Getting contact is impossible because they hide in the hairs and also in the buds. Rafael, just treat them with something if you suspect any of those symptoms might be spreading. Sample sizes of Avid and Forbid are available on eBay and neem should work also, although it will take longer and need to be applied regularly. You can buy a cheap microscope, but unless there is an infestation it will be very difficult to find them. I was unsure the spotting was a symptom of the mites at first because I often could not find a single mite on less affected plants. I saw these symptoms last season but they were not as bad and did not affect so many trees. I thought they were caused by rust or some other fungi. These mites are spread through plant to plant contact, wind, and growers. I think they most likely survived on a plant I kept inside for the winter but they could have also survived in cold storage. __________________ 7a, DE

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1409447656	Reply with quote #8

Brent, If you have a mite infestation, you may want to treat with miticide instead of Sevin. Insecticidal soap and increased fertilization may also provide a better solution to reduce the infestation and increase the health of the plants. Good Luck. Quote: pnspidermites.pdf , Spider mites frequently become a problem after applying insecticides. Such outbreaks are commonly a result of the insecticide killing off the mites’ natural enemies but also occur when certain insecticides stimulate mite reproduction. For example, spider mites exposed to carbaryl (Sevin)... BTW, the suggestion of not using Sevin is from first hand experience, after treatment with Sevin, the mite population exploded. http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PDF/PESTNOTES/pnspidermites.pdf http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05507.pdf <edit> I've been able to get similar leaf spotting by varying the pH and reducing nutrients to several potted plants. Necrotic spots will develop sooner and rust spored are also able to inoculate the thinner leaf sections and spread faster on the mottled leaves.

hoosierbanana

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Posts: 2,186

Posted 1409448824	Reply with quote #9

I am looking for eradication Pete, but Avid and Forbid are both miticides, I made the change above. Oddly enough all of the bindweed crawling into the greenhouse was infested with spider mites prior to my treatment and I have not had an issue with them on any figs. Incidentally Dr. Bronners was the first thing I tried and it had zero effect. __________________ 7a, DE

dfoster25

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Posts: 723

Posted 1409452619	Reply with quote #10

I think you made the right call. I think in our climate though once we head into fall these won't survive storage. Neem oil and Avid took care of them for me last year. Haven't seen them return this year. The damage you were seeing looked pretty similar to what I saw. Thanks for sharing. I don't feel so alone now. I think it takes courage to throw it out there that you have something like this, but we all benefit from the knowledge that you gained and then shared. __________________ Zone 6, SE MICHIGAN -14F 1-7-14 -23F 2-?-15 6F 1-18-16

hoosierbanana

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Posts: 2,186

Posted 1409461943	Reply with quote #11

Thanks Dan. I appreciated you sharing your experience also. It is a lonely feeling for sure and hope it does help others out who find themselves in trouble. __________________ 7a, DE

Aaron4USA

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Posts: 2,969

Posted 1409462170	Reply with quote #12

Brent have you seen difference in new leaves after using Mitecides? Pete S. is right on increased nutrition in watering , I have seen great improvement on all my leaves, minimal patching and darker leaves. I was told in several occasions that those (discoloration looking) patches were not FMV. FMV has very unique border connection lines , thus called Mosaic.

hoosierbanana

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Posts: 2,186

Posted 1409464029	Reply with quote #13

Yes Aaron the spots GO AWAY. __________________ 7a, DE

Aaron4USA

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Posts: 2,969

Posted 1409465202	Reply with quote #14

I might use it at the End Dormancy, just incase my figs have some. What do these mites rook like?

hoosierbanana

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Posts: 2,186

Posted 1409466753	Reply with quote #15

Aaron, they look like eriophyid mites. __________________ 7a, DE

Ampersand

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Posts: 728

Posted 1409481213	Reply with quote #16

Great work Brent. I've got some with mottled leaves on a Sal's, I thought it was FMV. I'll try treating with Neem or soap. I think I have bottles of those still. If I understand you, they should not survive the winter in cold areas and would need to be introduced from indoors? Regardless, I'll watch for symptoms in spring. Thanks for the great work.

SCfigFanatic

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Posts: 143

Posted 1409493339	Reply with quote #17

What sevin does not kill, malathion will.. Have fun Brent, you'll get rid of them. Doug

HarveyC

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Posts: 3,294

Posted 1409501934	Reply with quote #18

Great work, Brent! Maybe I need to investigate myself. __________________ Harvey - Correia Farms Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14 http://www.figaholics.com https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

susieqz

Registered:1372082549
Posts: 971

Posted 1409504911	Reply with quote #19

brent, i don't understand. are you saying those blotchy leaves in the pics were truly not fmv? __________________ susie wish list: nothing. i can't grow cuttings . right now, i have 6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.

hoosierbanana

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Posts: 2,186

Posted 1409542409	Reply with quote #20

The symptoms increase in severity with the number of mites present, and subside once the mites are gone. I can't say for sure that it is not FMV, the mites could be spreading it around the plant faster than it can move itself. __________________ 7a, DE

ascpete

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Posts: 1,942

Posted 1409571192	Reply with quote #21

Brent, What is your potting mix and fertilizing schedule? Thanks. I've had mites on small cuttings indoors, where they damage young thin leaves, but have not had any visible damage to older healthy plants outdoors. Usually they are washed away by rain or water spray, but they were spider mites.

hoosierbanana

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Posts: 2,186

Posted 1409574118	Reply with quote #22

Pete the mix varies a bit from batch to batch but most are in a mix that is roughly 3-1-1 PBM-Promix-Compost +amendments. I do not keep a fertilizer schedule but usually give them some liquid organics weekly and something solid monthly. I do not think it could be nutrient related, aside from what looks like mild Mg def shown in the mantis pic, which could also be FMV. p.s. pics 7 & 8 show a tree planted inground. __________________ 7a, DE

ascpete

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Posts: 1,942

Posted 1409577719	Reply with quote #23

Brent, Thanks for the reply, and your schedule of weekly Liquid and monthly Solid fertilizer feedings. I've posted about my observations that Rust will sometime inoculate young leaves and cause blotching as the leaves grow and age, http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=6035851 IMO, if the trees are given enough initial balanced nutrients the blotches are reduced, the rust inoculation is slowed and can be treated with fungicide... My schedule for growing fig trees has been to first provide Balanced nutrients for healthiest growth and reduced Leaf Mosaic Symptoms, then to separate the cultivars that do not respond to this treatment, so far there are no cultivars that continually produce blotchy leaves. There are a few cultivars that continue to show Leaf Mosaic symptoms, FMD when the leaves are back lighted, this may indicate FMV infection. BTW, There is lots of posted anecdotal evidence that FMV may affect the absorption of available nutrients, and that increasing the available nutrients (fertilizing or "over fertilizing") may result in healthier and faster growth with less FMD symptoms.

SCfigFanatic

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Posts: 143

Posted 1409590199	Reply with quote #24

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/sevin-concentrate-p-1594.html Liquid sevin. Same active ingredient as the powder. Looking at what it controls, your mite is on the list. It does make sense the powder could control and get rid of leaf sucking mites. Worked for me. I rarely use a pesticide but I do dust if there is a noticeable problem. Doug

hoosierbanana

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Posts: 2,186

Posted 1409597668	Reply with quote #25

Pete, I never did see any rust nodules on my plants, so I think the pics I showed in your thread displayed these same symptoms for the same reasons. It occurs to me that your affected plants could have had both rust fungi and eriophyid mites, unless you carefully scanned those affected leaves and buds with a microscope the mites would have gone unseen. The symptoms could have reduced from both the dilution of mites over a larger area (increased growth) and possibly cooler weather limiting their reproduction speed. Predatory mites could have had a positive impact as well. I don't know to what extent the virus spread but it seemingly did as some seedlings appear infected. In the last pic of the first post for example. Doug, I am not sure if mites can become resistant to Sevin but you should probably get something else so you can alternate treatments. Mites are apparently fast to become resistant to pesticides because of their short life cycle. They might be able to survive winter in your climate, especially in low buds covered with mulch. Spraying at bud break is probably the best time to get the overwintered females. __________________ 7a, DE

SCfigFanatic

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Posts: 143

Posted 1409600823	Reply with quote #26

Yes Brent, I use Sevin dust or Malathion liquid. Its one or the other. But they have been all I needed. I've only had mites on a fig when it was just added to the orchard comming from another source. Nobody's fault, it just happens. Ive never had mites on established figs. Scales, yes. Have fun Doug

ediblelandscapingsc

Registered:1343459620
Posts: 348

Posted 1409632121	Reply with quote #27

neem oil works great but the leaves may fall from the tree if the plant is in full sun after application. best as a dormant spray but what can you do. I try to use nothing and do things to increase my beneficials and many mites and other bugs get eaten. mites will pass FMV to your healthy trees so keeping them in check is important but if you do use pesticides try Nutrilife SM-90 or neem oil both are non-toxic, biodegradable, and environmentally friendly products. __________________ South Carolina zone 7b-8

Rob

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Posts: 550

Posted 1409665961	Reply with quote #28

Here is a link to an informative flyer from a land grant university that might be useful https://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/factsheet/eriophyid-mites2010.pdf. It could be the combination of mites and fmv that together cause more symptoms. I bet that cultural practices like making sure there is adequate fertilizer, pH, reducing stress from heat/lack of moisture, etc, can help too. __________________ Rob Maryland Zone 7 http://rbfigs.webs.com/

SCfigFanatic

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Posts: 143

Posted 1409668301	Reply with quote #29

Wow, it says to rotate chemicals When using pesticides, rotate the chemical group When using pesticides, rotate the chemical group on a "yearly" basis to avoid insect resistance. And it lists carbaryl AND malithion for insecticides and miticides. Doug

hoosierbanana

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Posts: 2,186

Posted 1409677925	Reply with quote #30

Sorry Doug I missed that you were alternating. I myself do not know much about pesticides so you sharing another way to do the same job is helpful. I probably should have looked it up. I chose to not use neem because it is slow acting. Azatrol is made from the active ingredient in neem and is what I will be spraying as a follow up to get any survivors. __________________ 7a, DE

SCfigFanatic

Registered:1396099670
Posts: 143

Posted 1409678388	Reply with quote #31

Hey! No big deal. More than one way to kill a mite. :) Doug

BrightGreenNurse

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Posts: 150

Posted 1427228801 · Edited	Reply with quote #32

So glad I found this thread! It looks as though there may be hope for my RDB trees after all. I thought they all had FMV, but today (it is 70 degrees outside) I found three mites on my little trees. These trees are quarantined to the back of the house on one windowsill and have never been outside here. I think the mites overwintered on the cuttings. Any idea what kind they are? The legs are red, the body a grayish brown. They do indeed run away if you try to catch them. __________________ Wish list- St. Rita, LSU Hollier, Brooklyn White, LSU Improved Celeste, Smith, St. Anthony

BrightGreenNurse

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Posts: 150

Posted 1427229000 · Edited	Reply with quote #33

Here are some pics of the leaves and of a mite in my hand to provide an idea of size...he is indeed now deceased. Edit - my pic files are too large and unfortunately I can't get them to post, sigh. __________________ Wish list- St. Rita, LSU Hollier, Brooklyn White, LSU Improved Celeste, Smith, St. Anthony

hoosierbanana

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Posts: 2,186

Posted 1427235238 · Edited	Reply with quote #34

Hey Jenny, I set the image size on my cameras to 1 mb, it is a permanent fix for the future. Mite be easier to take new pics ;) If the mites are large enough to see without a microscope then they are either spider mites or predatory mites. Predatory mites are faster and more mobile than spider mites, which mostly hang out and make thin webs that collect their "dirt". Predatory mites eat Fig Mites and I saw lots of them on infested plants. -Brent __________________ 7a, DE

figherder

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Posts: 237

Posted 1427237551	Reply with quote #35

Lady bugs love mites. They eat em up. :). There's also a product called Kapow that seems to work pretty good on them. Both are natural alternatives if your looking to go that direction. I try to avoid chemicals at all costs but I understand sometime its needed. __________________ Jeff in zone 5b Wish list St rita,Vista,Sal's G,De la Reina, preto, Sport and pops purple red from Bellaclare, Planera Malta Black, Navid Unk Dark Greek,

elin

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Posts: 1,271

Posted 1427334970	Reply with quote #36

I have 1 plant that has these on the bark. It grows ow and leafs show yellow dots. Anyone can help? Btw it scrapes of easily. Attached Images image.jpg (150.02 KB, 65 views) __________________ Eli ,Israel ,Zone 10? Too humid and hot, yada yada yada https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1298814119 Growing: Sbayi, Hmadi, Black Portugal, Black Brazil,Excell, Flanders, Hmari , RDB, Niagra Black,Natalina, CDDN,Maya, Preto Torres, Preto Arge

dfoster25

Registered:1337044031
Posts: 723

Posted 1427640789	Reply with quote #37

This looks like scale. Do a search on the Forum here and you should find plenty. __________________ Zone 6, SE MICHIGAN -14F 1-7-14 -23F 2-?-15 6F 1-18-16

figlegacy

Registered:1412213071
Posts: 96

Posted 1431137770	Reply with quote #38

Hoosierbanana, I read on one of your earlier posts that you go fossil hunting in NJ. I've been trying to find a spot in NJ to do just that, but no luck so far. Any recommendations? In particular I'd like to find some trilobites, but don't know if they have been found in NJ. Thanks.

hoosierbanana

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Posts: 2,186

Posted 1431142372	Reply with quote #39

I went to Big Brook and Ramanessin a half dozen times and found some really great shark teeth, it is a nice area and fun to splash around in a creek on a hot day. There are trilobites in NNJ, lots of info available on various fossil forums there are many people there from NJ. Also PA has more sites not too far west. I think you need to break them out of rocks, good luck! __________________ 7a, DE

figlegacy

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Posts: 96

Posted 1431193671	Reply with quote #40

Thanks. Never thought to check fossil forums....any you recommend?

hoosierbanana

Registered:1287901146
Posts: 2,186

Posted 1431200289	Reply with quote #41

thefossilforum.com seems to be the most active, the NJ subforum has some good threads. I never joined up anywhere so can't say for sure that would be the best one. __________________ 7a, DE

baust55

Registered:1240892043
Posts: 497

Posted 1431209573 · Edited	Reply with quote #42

suspect recent damage to my figs leafs might be from mites ? so I goggled up some remedies ....there are many ...so ! I mixed up a quart of warm water ,a tablespoon of olive oil , a teaspoon of lime juice and a few drops of dawn dish soap . I SPRAYED THIS concoction on both sides of the leaves . we shall see if it solved the problem hummm.. __________________ AUSTIN Read more mad non- scientist stuff ....check out my post on KITTY LITTER ! http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/kitty-litter-really-kitty-litter-7398708?pid=1287129765#post1287129765 "I grow fruit of the wine!" Zone 5 Fig trees I have : Hardy Chicago , Weeping Black , Ginoso , Excel , VEBT , and Genovese Nero . My Wish list: Panache, Florea,Desert King , RdB, Marseilles black vs, Vdb , Abruzzi, JH Adriatic , Nero 600 , MvsB, Malta Black,

figlegacy

Registered:1412213071
Posts: 96

Posted 1431295725	Reply with quote #43

Thanks, I'll check out that forum.

hoosierbanana

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Posts: 2,186

Posted 1431297054 · Edited	Reply with quote #44

Pino- How are you judging your mite levels: microscope, leaf symptoms? Their population is seasonal, in summer they reproduce faster than spring or fall and they are dormant in winter. Aren't you concerned about spreading the mite to other collections? __________________ 7a, DE

hoosierbanana

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Posts: 2,186

Posted 1431303667	Reply with quote #45

You need at least 30x magnification to see these. So I think you are probably talking about spider mites? I agree they are not an issue. __________________ 7a, DE

Brooklynmatty

Registered:1434844871
Posts: 279

Posted 1468870853	Reply with quote #46

I hate when people do this, but i am bumping this post due to the potential benefits learned from it. I have the same issue that Brent had with my figs forming spots, I have azamax already but just bought a bottle of Avid from ebay since i have a handful of plants that i think got infected from a plant i acquired last season and it spread to them. I want to try and stop them in their tracks. I will do my best to isolate them for now. Once they go dormant, what do people recommend for mites - soil drench and spraying the limbs or should wait for bud break? Most of the plants are growing vigirously, but if the figlets keep getting disformed, whats the point. Also - when should this be sprayed, evening time or morning? __________________ Matt - Long Island - Zone 7B Wishlist: CDD Roja, Planera, CDD Rimada Please use the following thread if your growing my "unknown Sheepshead" to track your progress. http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/saved-brooklyn-tree-unknown-sheepshead-community-growlog-7808733?pid=1290171384

hoosierbanana

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Posts: 2,186

Posted 1468876107 · Edited	Reply with quote #47

No worries about spraying Avid during the day, just be sure it will not rain and wash it all off before it has time to dry. I used a surfactant with Avid, I don't think it is really necessary though because sprays stick to fig leaves very well. Dormant oils are recommended for eriophyid mites in general, as are "summer oils" at bud break. Sulphur seems to be the go-to spray for the fig industry, don't think any pesticides are specifically labeled for fig trees. But notice they are for "control" not eradication, it takes something that will absorb into the plant (like Avid) and kill them when they feed to get rid of them all. After all they can be found inside of buds and small figs where sprays cannot reach them. B• Horticultural soaps and oils: Apply dormant weight horticultural oils 7-10 days before bud break and again at bud break. Proper timing targets eriophyid mites and preserves beneficial arthropods. During the summer soaps and summer weight oils offer mite control or suppression. Proper timing can also target other common plant pests such as aphids. Test for phytotoxicity before spraying the whole plant. • Sulfur: Sulfur has long been used for mite control. Full coverage is necessary for control. Do not apply when temperatures exceed 90°F, or during periods of high humidity. Best of luck, I do still see pictures of leaves on forums and eBay that look like they could have fig bud mites, and the general attitude or fig viruses as completely benign (mostly from sellers, the truth!) makes identifying the problem that much harder. Researchers often make no distinction between symptoms of the 2. There are plenty of misidentified images of fig bud mite damage as FMV, many from respected institutions that cause confusion. We are truly in a pickle, growers for the most part are all on their own dealing with the problem and it is not something that gets brought up very often. Here is a picture from "An Illustrated Guide to Plant Abnormalities Caused by Eriophyid Mites in North America" of fig leaves with fig bud mite symptoms. And a picture from http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/119501/fig-growing-nsw.pdf of internal browning caused by fig bud mite feeding on fruits. I've seen some of this from time to time shown in pictures as well. __________________ 7a, DE

SuperMario1

Registered:1441853363
Posts: 441

Posted 1468882430	Reply with quote #48

Interesting thread __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra, Violetta, Violette de Sollies, Dan_la's Black Beauty 10, Craven's Craving, Most important: YOUR FAVORITE FIG. A lot of people put emphasis on popular/exotic cultivars, which is great because it highlights some of the better fig varieties; however, I am most interested in the figs our members love regardless of pedigree. Currently Growing: a bunch of varieties.

Brooklynmatty

Registered:1434844871
Posts: 279

Posted 1468947873	Reply with quote #49

Thanks Brent for responding so quickly. It def looks i have a handful of plants that have mites, truly disappointing. I plan on spraying with avid, would it best if i strip the leaves and figlets of infected plants, i know i wont get figs from them this year - just rather have better eradification. Otherwise i would need to spray all over correct (limbs, upper/lower leaves, buds) correct? What kind of oils would be considered dormant oils? Neem? I have Azomax, not sure if that could used. __________________ Matt - Long Island - Zone 7B Wishlist: CDD Roja, Planera, CDD Rimada Please use the following thread if your growing my "unknown Sheepshead" to track your progress. http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/saved-brooklyn-tree-unknown-sheepshead-community-growlog-7808733?pid=1290171384

Pana13

Registered:1467077952
Posts: 48

Posted 1468963339	Reply with quote #50

I believe I have same problem on one of my trees. I have placed it on other end of yard just in case as I was thinking it could spread to other trees. Also thinking of tossing this one out but don't have the guts to do so. Does anyone think I should toss it out as when winter comes I store it in garage with my other trees so scared it might spread on other trees? Attached Images IMG_20160719_172147.jpg (160.02 KB, 13 views)

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