Grafting Question - will this work?

Author

Comment

FMD

Registered:1309800590
Posts: 1,327

Posted 1365007406	Reply with quote #1

Is there such a thing as a "girdle-bud graft". Scion Bud- From a growing fig stem, girdle off about an inch of bark with an actively growing bud. Stock Branch: Girdle one inch of bark off the receiving branch with same caliber and replace with the donor bark binding it tightly. Should this work? Is there such a grafting technique? The problem I see is that there would be zero to no cambium left on the receiving branch. What am I missing here? __________________ Frank Tallahassee, FL Zone 8b North Florida Figs

strudeldog

Registered:1278124225
Posts: 747

Posted 1365009383	Reply with quote #2

I have never done that, but I have done a patch bud, where you don't girdle the whole receiving branch, but only a square from it. The bark really needs to be in slip mode, and to remove a full girdle of the of the desired patch in good shape might be tough. The cambium contact on that would have to be on the bottom union, on the patch you have the sides and top as well. Not sure why not just lop the top of that off as you would not even want the top anymore. Above any type of graft sometimes it is good to half break above the graft/bud and bending it down leaving some of the bark intact for a period until established so the stock should give energies to the graft. I never have real good results with the patch bud but that was years ago and on pecan trees, and nut trees are hard. __________________ Phil N.GA. Zone 7 Looking for: De La Reina, Del La Senyora, Martinenca Rimada, Parfum De Cafards, Ponte Tresa, Sangue Dulce, Emalyn's Purple, and on and on

FMD

Registered:1309800590
Posts: 1,327

Posted 1365011275	Reply with quote #3

Thanks Phil, So whether you do a patch graft or a girdle graft, the cambium contact would be minimal, ie only along the sides. That's not a recipe for success. Back to the drawing board. __________________ Frank Tallahassee, FL Zone 8b North Florida Figs

pitangadiego

Moderator
Registered:1188871011
Posts: 5,447

Posted 1365011486	Reply with quote #4

This is essentially a bridge graft, of sorts, which is used to replace missing bark (chewed off by an animal, etc.) If done properly, it should work, but I see no reason to do it that way. You risk loosing the top portion of the tree if the graft is not successful. Better to use T-bud or chip-bud. Or a patch bud, see http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8115.pdf __________________ Encanto Farms Nursery http://encantofarms.com http://figs4fun.com http://webebananas.com "pitangadiego" everywhere

strudeldog

Registered:1278124225
Posts: 747

Posted 1365012297	Reply with quote #5

I guess I missed the point that you might want to keep the portion of the tree above the girdle. but with that girdle you are actually depending on 2 unions Top and bottom for the top to survive and you don't need to risk losing the top with the patch bud or the T or Chip buds. I am not talking specific to figs, but in general I have had better luck with either the Chip or T buds, than a patch bud. I really don't see any advantage of total girdle. __________________ Phil N.GA. Zone 7 Looking for: De La Reina, Del La Senyora, Martinenca Rimada, Parfum De Cafards, Ponte Tresa, Sangue Dulce, Emalyn's Purple, and on and on

FMD

Registered:1309800590
Posts: 1,327

Posted 1365020032	Reply with quote #6

Ok, thanks. One more question... please explain how a T-bud makes cambium to cambium contact. It seems that the cambium of the T-bud sits atop the denuded stock wood. The stock wood cambium would make up the inner part of the flap and would therefore sit on top of the inserted T-bud. Correct? __________________ Frank Tallahassee, FL Zone 8b North Florida Figs

Grasa

Registered:1347083219
Posts: 1,819

Posted 1365024552	Reply with quote #7

the Bud graft works great for me. but the receiving trunk needs to be strong and the surfice almost flat, so the new one (that is flat) has more contact. I tried the first one you posted, easy to remove and discard the bark, but try to prepare a new one to bring into that space! It cracks and splits, it was impossible for me, so I gave up. Maybe soaking prior to do the cuts on the grafting would work, but I have not tried. Like Harvey says..only is a failure if you don't try. I like this way better: http://www.google.com/imgres?q=fig+tree+graft&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&biw=899&bih=557&tbm=isch&tbnid=PN9FX9nltLsV3M:&imgrefurl=http://www.jardin-mundani.com/English/GRAFTS/Escutcheon-majorcan.htm&docid=cuH8UrkcG2ktxM&imgurl=http://www.jardin-mundani.com/English/GRAFTS/Escutcheon-majorcan_archivos/image014.jpg&w=351&h=290&ei=-59cUdvSOIj3igLHsoGwAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=2&vpy=91&dur=16&hovh=204&hovw=247&tx=120&ty=95&page=1&tbnh=138&tbnw=176&start=0&ndsp=16&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:84 __________________ Grasa Seattle, WA

pitangadiego

Moderator
Registered:1188871011
Posts: 5,447

Posted 1365049695	Reply with quote #8

T-bud works when the bark is "slipping" - that is, it is easily separated from the interior wood, so that you can slip the bud in behind the bark. You want to minimize the "wood" with the bud, so that you have little or none. If the bark is not slipping, Chip-budding is a better option, See Chip Bud See pix http://www.encantofarms.com/gpix/GP931-29.jpg http://www.encantofarms.com/gpix/GP931-28.jpg http://www.encantofarms.com/gpix/GP931-27.jpg http://www.encantofarms.com/gpix/GP931-26.jpg http://www.encantofarms.com/gpix/GP931-25.jpg http://www.encantofarms.com/gpix/GP931-24.jpg http://www.encantofarms.com/gpix/GP931-23.jpg http://www.encantofarms.com/gpix/GP931-22.jpg http://www.encantofarms.com/gpix/GP931-21.jpg http://www.encantofarms.com/gpix/GP931-20.jpg http://www.encantofarms.com/gpix/GP931-19.jpg __________________ Encanto Farms Nursery http://encantofarms.com http://figs4fun.com http://webebananas.com "pitangadiego" everywhere

Boris

Registered:1296846336
Posts: 117

Posted 1365110453	Reply with quote #9

The flaps do not have cambium, it suppose to be just bark. The cambium is under inserted bud, on the trunk. As Jon mentioned, during active growth the bark separates without the cambium.

FMD

Registered:1309800590
Posts: 1,327

Posted 1365127290	Reply with quote #10

Thanks for everyone's input. __________________ Frank Tallahassee, FL Zone 8b North Florida Figs

HarveyC

Registered:1212433117
Posts: 3,294

Posted 1365135013	Reply with quote #11

The only time I've seen a photo of that ring bark graft done was when someone put back the very same bark back onto the same tree but upside down to create some dwarfing. I've never tried it myself. I have a special Tina grafting knife purchased on eBay about 10 years ago with two fixed blades about an inch apart from one another (and parallel). I believe this model is primarily for patch grafting on walnuts but it would probably be handy for this ring bark grafting as well. __________________ Harvey - Correia Farms Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14 http://www.figaholics.com https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

FMD

Registered:1309800590
Posts: 1,327

Posted 1365161127	Reply with quote #12

Eureka! I finally found it. This is what I was trying say in the first post. Fig. 20. Ring or Annular Budding. 1. Stock prepared for bud. 2. Bud. 3. Bud in place and tied. Annular Budding.—A ring of bark about one inch in length is removed from the stock. A bud stick of the same size is selected, and from it a similar ring with a good bud on it is removed by cutting around the bud stick and slitting down the back or side opposite the bud. This bud is then placed in position on the stock. After the buds are in place, a piece of stiff wrapping paper should be tied around the stock just above the bud and allowed to flare out over the bud to protect it from the sun and wind. Preferably all buds should be inserted on the north side.Stocks from three-eighths to three-quarters of an inch may be worked by this method. From: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/28065/28065-h/28065-h.htm#Page_72 Therefore in order for this type of graft to take, there would have to be cambium layers located as per drawing below. Attached Images Cambium.jpg (18.55 KB, 9 views) __________________ Frank Tallahassee, FL Zone 8b North Florida Figs

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Modal title

Insert Code

Please paste your code into the box below: