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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
I'm thinking of putting a package together consisting of 4 different varieties of Capri.
This is for advanced figgers who, have green house where they can grow these male figs and maintain colonies of Wasps to pollinate their San Pedro, Smyrna or even Common figs.
This package will provide extended pollination season.

Please let me know what you guys think of this idea.
Would anyone be interested and will they benefit?

Here are the pictures of the varieties that I can put together.
Don't ask names and history because all I know is they are very active and healthy with Wasp colonies.

EDIT: I am adding more pictures for each variety, so you'll know why they are called certain specific colors.

1) This is the Black Capri (from Beverly Hills Old Lady)  
on the cuttings marked as "B.C." as in Black Capri
Black Capri, Beverly Hills Old Lady.jpg 2014-01-12 12.15.45.jpg 

2) This one is the sweet yellow Capri from Glendale Ave...
on cuttings marked as "Y.C." as in Yellow Capri
White Capri,Glendale Ave.jpg  FfCc7.jpeg 

3) This one is the Purple Capri (from Glendale Church Parking)
on cuttings marked as "P.C" as in Purple Capri
Purple Capri, Glendale Church Parking.jpg  Different generation Capri at any given time..jpg 


4) This is the Green Capri (from Glendale Church Parking)
on cuttings marked "G.C" as in Green Capri
2014-02-09 17.49.34.jpg  20150123_224345.jpg 

rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
They would have to have profichi on them and be shipped when they wouldn't encounter prolonged temps under 40.  I'd take one but it would have to be shipped soon - our temps are going up to 50 on Friday.  I suppose you could ship it with a 3 day heat pack.  I'd want mine dormant and bare root.  If not dormant then take all leaves off.  It'll go dormant in my garage.  They have to stay dormant until all the other figs wake up or the wasps will come out too early.
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Zone 6, MO

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Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
eboone

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Better to ship caprifig cuttings now, get the trees established, and later add wasps once they are bearing figs. It would be easier to ship figs w wasps overnight when you wouldn't have to worry as much about freezing.

I think that is what Aaron had in mind.



Edit:  I am interested but I think that is a project for next year, already rooting too many and need to get the greenhouse built...
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Ed
Zone 6A - Southwest PA     
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Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid),  Col Littman's Black Cross.   And any cold hardy early fig.
fignutty

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
I'd be interested in trying that setup probably along the lines of what Ed is suggesting.
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Steve in Alpine TX 7b/8a
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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Aaron, where in LA are you? I would love to meet up sometime for a cup of coffee or something to discuss figs.
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COGardener

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
I don't think that Aaron is offering figs with wasps at this time, simply male Capri cuttings, unless I'm mistaken.

If so, Aaron, I used to ship tropical fish corals all over the country, If need be, you can ship in a Styrofoam lined box with chemical heat packs to keep the fig wasps warm.

Can't wait to see someone's results with wasps in a green house in a COLD climate, I hope to try this myself one day.

Scott
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
-My original thought exactly Ed, thanks. BTW, you can start rooting them now and you'll have entire year to build the GreenHouse. The colony or Wasps have to be introduced to Profici (after the end of fig season, before dormancy...I think.)

-Bob,
I want to do cuttings , not rooted plants. I don't want to deal with shipping live plants, too much work and costs scare me.

This way the cuttings can grow and by the time they start blooming them the Wasp colony can be introduced.

-Jeffrey, I'm in Glendale, coffee sounds good, you are more than welcome to come and bring your family along, we have 2 kids ourselves, 5 and 3...
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
ok, I edited the original post, included pictures of the Capris I will use in the package.
rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
I'd be interested either way but from our last attempt there's no evidence any wasps survived summer transit.  Also, the S California wasps are ready to enter figs long before cold climate figs are ready for them.  That's why it seems important to me to have the figs shipped with the wasps while everyone was dormant.  Then all the figs will wake up in sync.  You might be able to get the figs ready to receive in time in a heated greenhouse but that's way more expensive than shipping, just to heat the house to the same temp as So Cal.  As for shipping costs, they're the buyer's problem, anyway.  :)

Perhaps we could grow our capri cuttings and then have only 1 capri tree shipped with some profichi on it.
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Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Bob, fortunately our climate allows the Wasps to flourish all year long.
We here can wait until your Profichi figs are big enough to accept Wasps.
Altough, our friend Francisco, who is very knowledgable when it comes to Figs and Capri Figs, mentioned that the Profichi will be ready to accept Wasp at size of a Pea...we can wait a bit longer.
When they are at size of a Quarter you can introduce the freshly arrived Capri figs that carry colony of Wasps to be introduced to your Greenhouse Capri.

I want to set a standard within our fellow figures in cooler climates for Greenhouse Capri, so I am calling it "Greenhouse Capri Project".

This will, one day, become a very standard procedure for all of us figures everywhere in the world.

Together we can make this work :)
figpig_66

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Will the wasp live year long in south louisiana? ?
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HICKORY LOUISIANA ZONE 8B WARM HUMID
WINRERS ARE VERY MILD LOW 20'S BUT WARMS RIGHT UP DURING THE DAY. SUMMER IS EXTREMELY HOT & HUMID 100 degrees 100% humidity fig tree grow like crazy but some split from rain & humidity
Wish list. Col de dame blanc
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
It should, only if the Wintering of the Capri fig trees are done in GreenHouses that are kept between 40-60 F.
figpig_66

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Mine stays warm its heated. Next how do you get the wasp once the capri fig is grown?
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RICHIE BONI
HICKORY LOUISIANA ZONE 8B WARM HUMID
WINRERS ARE VERY MILD LOW 20'S BUT WARMS RIGHT UP DURING THE DAY. SUMMER IS EXTREMELY HOT & HUMID 100 degrees 100% humidity fig tree grow like crazy but some split from rain & humidity
Wish list. Col de dame blanc
Col de rimada
Lsu numbered figs
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Shipped overnight, with a sealed Ostiole.
All you have to do it cut it open, gently and lay it next to or under the Capri tree with Profichi growing on it.
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
OK, I have like 6 people interested so far who have greenhouses ...
I need to come up with package deal...I need to run around and put it together... I don't know what is a fair deal...I don't want to sound greedy but I also don't want to do it for the loss... SO, please PM me with ideas?
figpig_66

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
I have one more question. What is profachi?
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RICHIE BONI
HICKORY LOUISIANA ZONE 8B WARM HUMID
WINRERS ARE VERY MILD LOW 20'S BUT WARMS RIGHT UP DURING THE DAY. SUMMER IS EXTREMELY HOT & HUMID 100 degrees 100% humidity fig tree grow like crazy but some split from rain & humidity
Wish list. Col de dame blanc
Col de rimada
Lsu numbered figs
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
ok, read the Fig Facts page on my http://www.LosAngelesFigForest.com website...LOL
figpig_66

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Very informative and cool web site.
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RICHIE BONI
HICKORY LOUISIANA ZONE 8B WARM HUMID
WINRERS ARE VERY MILD LOW 20'S BUT WARMS RIGHT UP DURING THE DAY. SUMMER IS EXTREMELY HOT & HUMID 100 degrees 100% humidity fig tree grow like crazy but some split from rain & humidity
Wish list. Col de dame blanc
Col de rimada
Lsu numbered figs
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
thanks Richie, it will only become better and better... needs time
figpig_66

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Been doing some research on fig wasp pollenation. Seems,to be a grate,thing for any fig. Seems almost like the fig is not completely ripened till it is pollenated it ripens,but not to it full potential. Grate thread
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RICHIE BONI
HICKORY LOUISIANA ZONE 8B WARM HUMID
WINRERS ARE VERY MILD LOW 20'S BUT WARMS RIGHT UP DURING THE DAY. SUMMER IS EXTREMELY HOT & HUMID 100 degrees 100% humidity fig tree grow like crazy but some split from rain & humidity
Wish list. Col de dame blanc
Col de rimada
Lsu numbered figs
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
This is going well,
I already have a small group of "Pioneers" who are on their way of starting this project.
I am very excited and excited for them :)

I'll work on putting the cuttings over the weekend so I can get them out on Monday.
palazzophoto

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
Im am interested specifically in possible persistent caprifigs for breeding through hand pollination to produce persistent common figs.
Through your observations of these caprifigs are any possibly persistent? 

If my understanding of persistent caprifigs is correct you could:
Bag some of each of the new profichi crop in spring and observe whether or not they drop without being pollinated. If they are not pollinated and do not drop they are persistent and could be quite rare.

Someone please comment if i am wrong regarding this topic. thanks
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greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Justin,

Please see in this thread from the post #11 and on for the persistence discussion:
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/black-mission-tj-seedling-airlayers-7200155?pid=1285789488
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
i'll take one.
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Dennis
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Bass

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
I got a couple capri and a couple smyrna type figs growing already. I'm interested in ones that ripens the same time as my smyrna figs. 
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greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass
I got a couple capri and a couple smyrna type figs growing already. I'm interested in ones that ripens the same time as my smyrna figs. 


Will the ripening time in CA be the same as in PA?
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Thank you Dennis.
rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass
I got a couple capri and a couple smyrna type figs growing already. I'm interested in ones that ripens the same time as my smyrna figs. 


Are your existing capris out of sync with your Smyrnas?  That's not good  :)  I was hoping if they were dormant at the same time they'd be in sync.  Do you know what capris they are?

I imagine any caprifig in CA would ripen figs well before the same capri in PA just because the PA plants would be dormant longer. 

Bass,you're just going to have to order all of them from Aaron and UCD and tell us which ones end up working for you.  :)

Aaron, we need you to name them something and label them so we're all talking about the same variety as we compare notes.  I'm sure you've already done this.

Best of luck to us all!
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Zone 6, MO

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Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
The best way to insure there are Wasps when your She Figs are ready to conceive is to have several with little off timings from each other.

Tat's the reason I have put together 4 different active varieties of Capri.
This will provide prolonged pollination season for many types of Smyrna, San Pedro and even Common Figs.
Bass

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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
There are certain Capri figs that release their wasps earlier or later than others. I would like to grow some that ripens at different time, so it matches the main crop of the smyrna types I grow.  UCD has different capri types planted among their orchard. 
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
yes Bass, hence the 4 different varieties of the Capri in my package. I thought I was clear about this :)
greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass
There are certain Capri figs that release their wasps earlier or later than others. I would like to grow some that ripens at different time, so it matches the main crop of the smyrna types I grow.  UCD has different capri types planted among their orchard. 


Right. But do you know if the timing at your place would be the same as in CA? You may need several different varieties to choose one or more at the end.
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Bass

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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
@Aaron, I really like your idea, I think it will be a nice project to trial. You did mention the 4 varieties do extend the pollination season, i was just going off what you've mentioned.
@greenfig, I'm sure ripening time is different, although in the greenhouse, climate can be controlled to match the season in Cali, somewhat.
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fignutty

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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
My greenhouse climate is modeled after central CA, say Modesto. It's not that hard here because our average temperatures each month are very near Modesto. Here the issue outdoors is wild swings in temperature and late freezes that don't occur in CA.

Any heated greenhouse in a temperate climate can be made to mimic CA to some degree. The biggest difference will be humidity and sunlight. That's not an issue here as we average 75% sunshine all year long.
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greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
That's an interesting question in itself and I am sure many people looked in to this, I just do not have a greenhouse and do not know the specifics.

If one wants to mimic a particular climate, what variables are the most important? I believe different plants would would be affected by different things.
The figs do care about the average temperature, min/max temp., sunlight, humidity.
Anything else, like pressure, watering schedule, microelements in water , etc.?
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass
@Aaron, I really like your idea, I think it will be a nice project to trial. You did mention the 4 varieties do extend the pollination season, i was just going off what you've mentioned.
@greenfig, I'm sure ripening time is different, although in the greenhouse, climate can be controlled to match the season in Cali, somewhat.
Thanks Bassem,

This is going to be a very interesting and important project for the fig world.

If you had a heated Greenhouse , you would be an ideal candidate with your varieties and expertise... :)
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
I'm done with the Capri cuttings.

Many thanks for the participants, The Pioneers, of the "Greenhouse Capri Project".

The packages will go out tomorrow morning.

Happy Figging :)
figpig_66

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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
Received my capri fig cutting. All the cuttings look awsome. Going to root them on,sunday. Many thanks Aaron going to be a very cool project. Have my,second greenhouse up and running. Strickly figs. I will keep updating my post with the progress. Richie from louisiana
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RICHIE BONI
HICKORY LOUISIANA ZONE 8B WARM HUMID
WINRERS ARE VERY MILD LOW 20'S BUT WARMS RIGHT UP DURING THE DAY. SUMMER IS EXTREMELY HOT & HUMID 100 degrees 100% humidity fig tree grow like crazy but some split from rain & humidity
Wish list. Col de dame blanc
Col de rimada
Lsu numbered figs
HarveyC

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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
Good luck, everyone.

Here are some of my thoughts/experiences on the matter.  I've rooted cuttings and done airlayers, both with and without mamme or mammoni fruits on them at the time (maybe profichi also, though I don't recall).  I believe bare rooting a plant with fruits on them will probably result in the fruits dropping.  Unfortunately, I found that the new plants did not produce the next generation of fruits even when I was able to get it to hold onto the fruits that were on it when I airlayered it or rooted it.  This means the wasps will have no place to lay eggs for the next generation of wasps.  When wasps were first successfully introduced to the U.S. I believe they transported a fairly large tree by ship so this allowed the generations of wasps to continue.  Trying to introduce wasps from one area of the country to a caprifig tree in another part of the country can be quite challenging as the timing of wasps emerging can vary greatly even within different parts of California.  In the 1900 Yearbook of Agriculture previously posted by Francisco ("lampo"), there was discussion about the consider difference in wasp emergence in Fresno and Niles (Niles is now part of the city of Fremont).  I'm guessing that a caprifig tree grown in a north side of a residence would have a later generation of wasps than a tree grown facing south of out in the open where it is always receiving sunlight during the day.  I'm very interested in this project and hope someone is able to have success but I'm guessing it's going to take at least a year before someone can get a tree to consistently produce three generations of fruits and then several efforts to ship fruits with emerging wasps to help get the timing right so that the fruits on the new trees get wasp eggs in them.

Here is a like to the 1900 Yearbook of Agriculture, begin reading at page 79.  I believe Francisco had posted a better link with text that was searchable but am unable to locate that right now. 

https://books.google.com/books?id=Cho4AQAAMAAJ&dq=fig%20culture%20in%20california%20yearbook%20of%20agriculture%201900&pg=PA79#v=onepage&q=fig%20culture%20in%20california%20yearbook%20of%20agriculture%201900&f=false
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Harvey - Correia Farms
Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
Originally Posted by rcantor 
Aaron, we need you to name them something and label them so we're all talking about the same variety as we compare notes.  I'm sure you've already done this.

Best of luck to us all!



Bob, thanks for the suggestion, I have marked all the cuttings as follows.
1) B.C. = Black Capri
2) Y.C. = Yellow Capri
3) P.C. = Purple Capri
4) G.C. = Green Capri

you will find matching names on Post #1 with pictures.

Harvey,
thanks for your input.
you are right, it will require a complete cycle of year before Wasps are introduced to the growing cuttings.
That would be in Spring (I think) of 2016, by that time all the eatable fig trees will be 1or 2 year old anyway for most "Greenhouse Capri Project" participants. 

For example: The first Capri tree transplant that I had from last year (which happens to be this same G.C. above) has only 1 (ONE) capri at the tip of it but...I am sure that there is a wasp colony inside it waiting to emerge as the weather warms up. It had 3 and as they ripened one by one (because the weather was warm) the wasps transferred from one fig to another. From ripe Capri to green, hard, unripe Capri and now is the last Capri, still very hard and green with very tightly closed ostiole.
This is the season where one will see the least Capri on trees. But they are full of Wasp Colonies, just waiting... :)

Feb 24, 2014 all the capri figs eventually fell as the tree was establishing roots
2014-02-24 14.21.51.jpg 2014-02-24 14.33.09.jpg

Aug 28, 2014  New generation of Capri Figs "Mamme" developing, only to mature in Spring. This is when I introduced Wasps to these Capri Figs, by cutting open any random Capri from mother tree and throwing it under this baby Capri tree.
20140828_103304.jpg 

This is today, I just went down the Fig Terrace to take the picture.
The only Capri Fig "Mamme" remaining in the tree that holds the "Precious Cargo" entire new (small) colony of the wasps, introduced last August.
20150123_224345.jpg  20150123_224336.jpg
HarveyC

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Posted Reply with quote  #41 
Aaron, I can maybe help out and ship you caprifigs from here a couple of times so that you can distribute to the folks participating in the project since the chances of getting something to work out timing wise should be better if we work together.  I know that when I spoke to Bass a couple of summers ago his common figs were not receptive until around a month after my caprifigs had wasps emerging so I'm guessing the same thing may happen with the caprifigs in this project, though indoor growing conditions can help.
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #42 
Harvey, 
Thanks for your thoughtful gesture. 
We might need your back up in this, although, interestingly enough this Church Parking Lot Capri trees produce non-stop, all year around. It's an amazing phenomenon...
Even Francisco had hard time believing it until I showed him the tree's pictures in different seasons.
It must be the conditions... location of growth, the sun and moisture...Ideal somehow...
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Posted Reply with quote  #43 
Church black or Church white? I forget and have both.  Will be interesting to see if it performs the same here.  No fruit on those yet and they are in pots.
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Harvey - Correia Farms
Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #44 
Harvey,
Church Purple and Green (White) and Bev Hilld Old Lady's "Black"
You'll start seeing capri figs on them in Spring.
I sent them to you there kinds..
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Posted Reply with quote  #45 
If you have extra I will take one.
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Posted Reply with quote  #46 
I just stumbled upon this thread and this is something that sounds like an excellent idea. Anyone care to post any updates on their success? My greenhouse has not yet been constructed (Zone 8a for those interested), but once I have that in place I am very interested in fig breeding/caprification
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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #47 
Aaron is no longer here.  You need to collect caprifigs and get at least 1 in the group producing each of the 3 crops of figs consistently.  No one fig has to produce all 3 crops but among all the fig plants each of the 3 crops must be represented year in, year out.  Then you need to get the wasp sent to you.

Read these threads and start growing caprifigs.

https://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/johns-market-capri-6904497

https://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/pix-black-prince-capri-6949118

https://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/lack-of-water-or-capri-fig-6971257 to see caprifigs and the wasp.

https://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/johns-market-capri-6904497

https://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/looking-for-named-caprifigs-7257061

https://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/best-caprifigs-for-seed-production-and-best-for-good-tasting-fruit-6763427
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Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
figoffrandy

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Posted Reply with quote  #48 
Thank you for the reply rcantor, I will read through those links and will likely start collecting some caprifigs next season. Would anyone in this thread have any interest in sending me some cuttings next season? 
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Georgia - Zone 8a

My Current Figs: O'Rourke, LSU Tiger, LSU Scott's Black, LSU Hollier, LSU Improved Celeste, LSU Scotts Yellow, LSU Champagne, LSU Gold, LSU Purple, Strawberry Verte, Col de Dame Noir, Figo Preto, Nero 600 M, Raspberry Latte, Chicago Hardy, Celeste, Brown Turkey, Violette de Bordeaux, Kadota

Wish List: RdB, Colonel Littman's Black Cross
figoffrandy

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Posted Reply with quote  #49 
Thank you for the reply and the generous offer, I am unsure if I will be able to attend but if not I will certainly keep my eye out for other caprifig cuttings and such in the winter
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Georgia - Zone 8a

My Current Figs: O'Rourke, LSU Tiger, LSU Scott's Black, LSU Hollier, LSU Improved Celeste, LSU Scotts Yellow, LSU Champagne, LSU Gold, LSU Purple, Strawberry Verte, Col de Dame Noir, Figo Preto, Nero 600 M, Raspberry Latte, Chicago Hardy, Celeste, Brown Turkey, Violette de Bordeaux, Kadota

Wish List: RdB, Colonel Littman's Black Cross
figpig_66

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Posted Reply with quote  #50 
This is my Capri fig. Its ripe. And i am in need of wasps real bad !!!! Who volunteered to supply wasps. I think his name is somewhere in this thread. ;-)

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RICHIE BONI
HICKORY LOUISIANA ZONE 8B WARM HUMID
WINRERS ARE VERY MILD LOW 20'S BUT WARMS RIGHT UP DURING THE DAY. SUMMER IS EXTREMELY HOT & HUMID 100 degrees 100% humidity fig tree grow like crazy but some split from rain & humidity
Wish list. Col de dame blanc
Col de rimada
Lsu numbered figs

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