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Maro2Bear

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Good Evening All,

I have a quick and hopefuly easy question for the forum. I was cleaning up our perennial garden over the weekend and among this I had a Mandevillia growing in a wooden box about six feet from my in-ground Hardy Chicago. When I attempted to pull up the box, I realized it had a whole lot of roots intertwined at the base. At first I thought it weeds, but after additional investigation, I traced the very very large root mass and one main root back to the HC fig tree! This planter box and root ball is right where our house rain downspout drains water. So, a nice moist location, that provides water to our HC as well as the perennial garden.

So, my question is, has anyone ever grown a brand new tree solely from a massive root mass? I have a mass of roots with a main " tap root " that is healthy, moist and growing. Does anyone think I can plant this in a pot and have it pop up as a tree? I'll attach a photo or two if I can.

All thoughts most appreciated!
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Mark B., Glenn Dale, MD Zone 7a
satellitehead

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Without trunk cells, no tree. There are technical details available here if you want to understand why - This topic comes up once or twice a year.
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by satellitehead
Without trunk cells, no tree. There are technical details available here if you want to understand why - This topic comes up once or twice a year.


That's what I was thinking.  There's probably something you could do w/ tissue culture if you had a lab though.
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Mike
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MichaelTucson

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Hi Mark.  I don't think that will work, unless there's a little bit of stem/trunk attached to the root.  I suspect there's some disagreement about whether it's possible, but I had a similar question about 6 or 7 months ago, and most people on the forum thought it wouldn't work.  So I did an experiment  (not real tightly controlled, but an experiment anyway).  I took 6 different bits of root stock  (2 of them were just very fine roots, the others a mix), and planted them in various conditions (some with part exposed to the air, and some without).  I watered them as I did my trees throughout the season.  At the end of one full season, not a single one of them made a tree.  Jon (the moderator of the forum) also reported similar experience.  I couldn't resist trying it, since it was early in the season still... but the results I experienced was that it didn't yield any trees.  (And meanwhile, I've had lots of successes at rooting actual stem cuttings, both green and dormant, and in some cases even requiring a bit of "rescue").  Like I said, no scientific controls to this particular experiment, but in my opinion it won't likely work.

If I can find a reference to the old thread, I'll edit this posting and provide a pointer.  Most of the folks who posted responses there suggested that the stock had to have a leaf node or a root/stem junction for it to work (though a few suggested chemical treatments that might induce top growth)  (which I didn't try).

<< Edit at 11:20 PM >>  Here is a reference to the thread where I reported on my experiment.  Placing it here not to repeat my own experience, rather to link to suggestions from others who had ideas about things that might induce top growth, (though my own opinion is it isn't worth trying).  This thread is only 11 posts long, so pretty quick reading:  http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Reverse-Air-Layer-5870071
<< end of Edit >>

Mike   central NY state, zone 5
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Grasa

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
how about just expose the root to sun light and warmth, you should get a sprout, sucker.  I found a few of those mini trees growing from long arm roots... You can ad warmth to the area, by puting a garbage bag over an upside down empty poting container over the area you want to see the sprouting. I bet you the root will come up for air, and wil branch.. you have to do a few checks, but having the plastic over, will keep soil warm.  if I really want play with it, that is what I would do.
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pitangadiego

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
There have been claims of trees grown from roots, but I have removed potted trees that had been rooted in and the roots were still viable for 3-4 years, but never produced any vegetation. It is my belief that you have to have some vegetative cells, if not a bud to form new growth.
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slingha

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
So how do you explain a sucker? Full disclosure, I have a ball of roots in soil since June and nothing has happened.
bullet08

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
so far all my "suckers" came off the main trunk under the soil, not from the root. maybe if i grow figs longer, i might see otherwise.
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Pete
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***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
bob17257

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
I have 2 healthy and productive in-ground fig bushes, which were started from sections of root taken from a bush belonging to a friend.  He got his bushes started the same way.  

Bob - South Central PA
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Maro2Bear

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Greetings All

Really appreciate all of the thoughtful and insightful comments on my initial question. I can understand that there needs to be some " tree stock" genes vice root stock for the root mass to send up a tree/sucker. I guess I find it hard to believe that o/a two pounds of fibrous root mass, from the smallest of fibers to the main runner root at 1/4 inch is not able to put out a new tree. I think I will plant what i have and see what develops. Plant and animal kingdoms do some interesting things when certain conditions exist.

Thanks again!
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Mark B., Glenn Dale, MD Zone 7a
Centurion

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maro2Bear
I think I will plant what i have and see what develops. !


Give it a shot.  I would.  You have nothing to lose but a little time.
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Dave
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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
If you can find some gibberelin you might have better luck.
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pitangadiego

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
It is my belief that the suckers are actually coming from the trunk, even if below the soil line. Roots do not start at the soil line. Alternatively, there may be a mechanism (just speculating) that would allow an intact tree to push vegetative growth from the roots that requires the presence of the actual vegetative portion of the parent tree to be present. I have seen Osage Orange roots that will generate new vegetative growth, even years after the tree/trunk were removed. So fr some plants that is possible. Just haven't seen the evidence in figs.
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Posted Reply with quote  #14 

I have a Mandarin sapling that I have been growing from seed. A squirrell cut it down to the bare roots. the roots were a bit gnarly and looked dead for 3 months. a couple of months ago it sprouted a new shoot from the roots. 

Anyway I heard some Ficus species can be propagated just with root cuttings.
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MichaelTucson

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion
Give it a shot.  I would.  You have nothing to lose but a little time. 


I tried a similar trial... it didn't work for me.  Documented here: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Reverse-Air-Layer-5870071

Mike   central NY state, zone 5
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Maro2Bear

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 

All
I'm so tempted to throw the mass of roots in a pot, keep watered, let them go dormant for winter, and just see what happens!

Have nothing to lose really, some potting soil, and a small bit of time.
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Mark B., Glenn Dale, MD Zone 7a
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