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Encanto Farms Nursery > Topics > Is there a Synonym for Lampa Preta ??
 
 


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paully22

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
I am not sure whether Lampa Preta synonym is "thiberio" . Hope some fig friends can help.  
pino

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Paul
Tiberio was one of the Roman Caesars.  Don't know if there is a connection here..lol

Francisco and Nelson are very knowledgeable on Portuguese figs. 
Here is a topic from a while ago.  Nelson mentions Lampa Preta is a san pedro type and is one of the best breba producers for Portugal. 
In Madeira it is called "Burro" and some parts of Portugal it is called Lamperia Preta.  Looks like you have a great fig potential with this one.

https://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/portuguese-fig-varieties-3981497

 
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figgary

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
I have no idea about Thiberio, but it doesn't sound Portuguese. Francisco mentioned that a synonym for Lampa/Lampeira Preta may also be Sao Joao Preto, in one area in Portugal. He was going to try and verify this if he could. Portuguese figs are more confusing than LSU varieties.
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rayrose

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Lampa Preta and Sao Joao Preta are two different figs. I have a friend that has both.
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Ray
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figgary

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks, rayrose, that is good to know. Is your friend in the States?
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rayrose

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
No, he's in Spain.
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Ray
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lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Occasionally, on a few topics, I believe having indicated local synonyms of this San Pedro type,   Lampeira Preta as it's called in Portugal.

this new one (thiberio) seems to be a brand new re-baptism.. why? ..emperor Tiberius was contemporary with J Christ .. a long time ago! 
Found this list of synonyms from (fruitiers.net):

http://www.fruitiers.net/fiche.php?NumFiche=3056

São João Preto or simply 'figos de São João' are also synonyms, confirmed by the local AgAuthority

just tried and googled 'figos de Sao Joao Preto' and got these images..

https://www.google.pt/search?q=figos+de+Sao+Joao&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiRjdThrvrLAhVLOxQKHRWPC48QsAQILg&biw=1138&bih=507#tbm=isch&q=figos+de+Sao+Joao+Preto

here there are pics of Violeta, Pastiliere Lampeira, etc.. (not a serious business)

BTW - Lampiera should be corrected to:  LAMPEIRA
good luck

Francisco
Portugal
rayrose

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
There's also a Sao Joao Branco
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Ray
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elin

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
I have about 10 plants from both Lampeira and Sao Joao Preto and thought they are different.

Seems ill be swimming in lampeira brebas next year :) and with help from Portuguese capri some main crop. too.
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paully22

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Met this gentleman here and he said he had "thiberio" aka Lampa Preta. He has 3 sources of Lampeira including 
one that came from M.Pon and the spanish repository. It has not fruited for him. He gave me a Lampeira tree from
Pon's - currently it has a breba. Hope it would not abort like the Lampeira I had before that keeps aborting its brebas.
I got rid of it. The only other person I know that has Lampa Preta & SJ Preto in Canada is our fig king Adriano.
rayrose

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Paully, if you don't have the wasp, why would you want to grow them?
I can get them, but I don't have the wasp, so why bother. There are far
many "common" figs you can grow that are just as good, if not better.
I don't understand this thing about having to grow every variety under the sun.
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Ray
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paully22

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
I am looking for reliable & tasty breba crop variant. Most common fig variants abort due to cold/frost except Desert King and Granthams
Royal. Our weather in Pacific Northwest summer is cool. Fig wasp is of no help as the zone dictates when the figs start producing. Most
main crop will never have a chance to ripen tastefully or not at all. That is why DK & GR taste superior because their breba crop is time
to coincide with the hottest time in the year like August. Apart from zonal weather patterns, I don't care too much for main crop as the
month of Sept-early Oct is a time when many other fruits are ripening and hordes of bugs especially fruit flies by the millions are attracted
by fruit souring -- man, you could see them hovering or getting in and out fig eyes. Yaks......Finally Sept - end Oct is prime sport fishing
months for salmon & I have little time for figs.
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Lampeira Preta being a San Pedro, ripens its brebas with no wasp interference
The first brebas ripen early in my climate (3rd week of May on most years).
Farmers and individual , backyard growers, are far more interested on the breba crop and the trees are mostly pruned with this in mind, i.e. , done immediately after the breba crop, by July.

Some growers needing high quality dry figs do prune their trees in January, then strongly limiting the production of brebas and concentrate on the main crop which needs pollination in June and make an excellent fig for drying.

In my environment Lampeira brebas do not abort. Lampeira, to my knowledge is not a cold hardy fruit so, it may be affected by excessively low temperatures.
Visited a friend today and saw his Lampeira, full of brebas... many already well above 2inch in length needing still around 1 1/2 months to be ready

However we have plenty of 'false brebas' aborting from both Common and Smyrna varieties

Here an example of Zidi brebas on March 16. Lacking pollination they will ALL abort.

P1070349.jpg 
Francisco
Portugal
kkk2210

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lampo

São João Preto or simply 'figos de São João' are also synonyms, confirmed by the local AgAuthority

just tried and googled 'figos de Sao Joao Preto' and got these images..


Francisco

Hello, so are you saying 'sao joao preto' is a synonym of Lamperia Preta?
Is 'sao joao preto' a san predo type?.. and do you have any real pictures of this variety.

Thanks
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Vinny

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Chivas

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Did I ever send you Colar Paully?  The brebas are large, juicy and tasty, main crop are not as god in my opinion.
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paully22

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
@ Chivas -- Haven't got Colar yet. Would be a fantastic addition. No hurry though.
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Vinny.

I have no pictures of this Sao Joao Preto.
My understanding is that in time, people in the North of Portugal gave that name to the Lampeira brebas cultivated on their backyards...
,.. may be some nursery did it (?)  (this is frequent here)

The best I can do now is to guide you to this link which shows an official document (from 2015) prepared under the supervision of the MinAg authority showing the known varieties producing brebas.
No reference is made to 'Sao Joao Preto' which, as far as they are concerned  is synonym to Lampeira Preta. It is known that Lampeira has many different strains and people thinking they found a 'new' fruit, immediately call it a name of his/hers liking.

http://www.iniav.pt/fotos/editor2/folheto_colecao_figueira.pdf

The noun 'breba' is not used in Portugal
People call these early figs - figos de Sao Joao or figos lampos -all varieties confused.
Very few people cares for the variety name.. figs are either black or white
The day of Sao Joao (Saint John'day) is June 24th
Also a date of reference for caprification - (officially starting on the 16th of June)

Francisco
Chivas

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
I will get one started for you,  have a lot of branches to prune.
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paully22

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Thanks Chivas. Will write you email on what I have that you may like to try in your zone.
rayrose

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Paully, I don't blame you, I'd rather go fishing too! Figs grow very differently depending
upon the climate, and the grower's objectives. I have a long season and could ripen the 
main crop of these San Pedro varieties, but I don't have the wasp. My friend has offered
to send me the wasp, but I don't know, if it would reproduce for me, and I don't want the
hassle.
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Ray
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Norhayati

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
I have sao jao preto. Not so sure it is san pedro though. But last year it did give me some fruits. Definitely a keeper for me.
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Jsacadura

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
Probably Francisco is right. In some parts of the country they call São João figs to any Lampeira breba, but in some areas it seems there are different varieties.

At least in some government collections, São João (nº28) and Lampa Preta (nº21) are listed as 2 different San Pedro varieties. And nurseries tend to sell a variety called São João Preto and another called Lampa Preta:

FIGOS portugueses - 1.JPG 
FIGOS portugueses - 2.JPG 

I have both varieties (both bought in the same nursery) and if Lampa Preta produces some figs this year i will be able to compare them.


kkk2210,
They both are San Pedro type - second crop will fail without pollination.

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Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal
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nelson20vt

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Hey Paul, I will post pictures when I get home of the Tiberio fig also know in spain as Lampaga. 

It is Lampa Preta AKA Lampeira. I will snap some pics out of the book I have at home.

IF Anyone else has this book just look it up

http://www.magrama.gob.es/es/ministerio/servicios/publicaciones/Variedades_de_Higuera_primeras_p%C3%A1ginas_tcm7-212148.pdf
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Jsacadura

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Some photos of Lampa Preta in an old Francisco's thread:
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/lampeira-preta-ground-non-irrigated-6927739?highlight=lampa+preta&pid=1283031384

And another with photos of the main crop:
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/lampeira-preta-main-crop-6467226?pid=1279038568
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Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal
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Jsacadura

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
A few photos of my São João Preto tree with some figs from last year's crop (the one's the birds left me)
figo_são_joão4b1_proteção.JPG figo_são_joão4c_proteção.JPG figo_são_joão5_proteção.JPG são_joão_preto1.jpg são_joão_preto2.jpg são_joão_preto3.jpg

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Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal
Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.
nelson20vt

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 




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paully22

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Nelson, the guy here that has "Tibero" is an expert on citrus. He goes around, even to USA to 
give talks on citrus. He caught the fig bug a few years back. He has a collection of Pon's figs. I
am welcome to any fig variants he has in his collection.

Thanks for the confirmation. Got a couple of trees to send you.
rayrose

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
JSacadura,

I notice on your list Moscatel de Torres Novas, but I've also heard of a Figo Preto
de Torres Novas. Do you know anything about it?
Thanks

Ray
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Ray
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Jsacadura

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Ray,

I don't know if the one that is listed in the collection in Alcobaça is the same. In this region the fig you mentioned is known by Preto de Torres Novas and has a black skin when mature.

The Moscatel in the collection is listed has having a green skin, so it can be a different variety.

The region of Torres Novas is known for having several good fig varieties.
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Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal
Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.
rayrose

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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Is Figo Preto de Torres Novas the same as the fig we know as Figo Preto?
 I just got some cuttings and am having a hard time finding out anything about it.
Also got Moscatel Branco.
Ray
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Ray
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lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayrose
Is Figo Preto de Torres Novas the same as the fig we know as Figo Preto?
 I just got some cuttings and am having a hard time finding out anything about it.
Also got Moscatel Branco.
Ray


Ray,

No. Figo Preto de Torres Novas (FP/TN) is not the same cultivar as Figo Preto commonly spoken in this forum. Both with Portuguese origins but completely different.. and from diff regions.
practically, they just share the same skin colors. Pictures of (FP/TN), may be found in this page,..mostly cultivated for drying

https://www.google.pt/search?q=figo+preto+de+torres&biw=1138&bih=492&tbm=isch&imgil=VC___gSRFaC74M%253A%253BeEjOJRf0UvHyaM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Festeiros.com%25252Ftag%25252Ffigo-preto-de-torres-novas%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=VC___gSRFaC74M%253A%252CeEjOJRf0UvHyaM%252C_&usg=__Fwn-PbyIQUZbqrzVD_jSrTKfW58%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjhtcPm05HMAhXJLhoKHYnqA90QyjcINg&ei=JGYRV-GTGMndaInVj-gN#imgrc=VC___gSRFaC74M%3A

But let Jsacadura chime in with his views on the Torres Novas black fig. I believe he has this variety which grows close to his location

As for Moscatel Branco, I believe it is synonym to Pingo de Mel,  a honey fig, sort of a Dottato cousin.

Francisco
Portugal
rayrose

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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
Thanks, I wish I could read Portuguese.
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Ray
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Jsacadura

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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
Ray,

If you have cuttings of two of my trees you can read more about those 2 varieties and see some pictures of the figs in this threads:

Figo Preto de Torres Novas
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/figo-preto-de-torres-novas-7586423?pid=1288725799

Moscatel Branco
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1288583202&postcount=5&forum=0
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Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal
Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.
rayrose

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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
Jaime,
Thanks so very much. I wasn't able to find out very much about these figs and
was considering trading them, but you've changed my mind. Do either of these require
the wasp, because I don't have it? Is the Moscatel Branco a pure suger fig with no other
taste. I try to avoid just pure sugar figs. Thanks

Ray 
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Ray
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Jsacadura

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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
You're welcome, Ray.

None of those varieties needs the wasp.

I have other varieties that do and the figs fall, unfertilized, cause i still don't have it over here - i'm working on it...

Moscatel Branco has a very high honey content, but has a distinct flavor - when fully ripe it's an irresistible fig. I eat them whole (the skin has a nice flavor and consistency and adds to the flavor). It's also an excellent fig to dry.

The only problem is it's it doesn't resist well persistent rain and becomes watery. Over here in some years that it's a problem has i usually have rains during the end of August, beginning of September, when most of these figs mature.

Last year we had 3-4 weeks without rain and the crop was fantastic. 

 
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Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal
Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.
kkk2210

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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lampo
Vinny.

I have no pictures of this Sao Joao Preto.





Hello Franscico ,

this is my Sao Joao Preto from Baud image.jpeg 

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Vinny

Bognor Regis, United Kingdom

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