--- my cheapo version of the double-bladed Tina budding knife

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greenfig

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Posts: 3,182

Posted 1415321417 · Edited	Reply with quote #1

Harvey demonstrated a use of his double-bladed budding knife in his thread about grafting BM after Francisco’s beautiful video. http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/my-black-madeira-on-bt-update-to-include-budding-7146842?pid=1284976079#post1284976079 I checked the price of that Tina T671 knife and it bites hard, it is about $200 :( So I made my own, it costs almost nothing and the blades are replaceable ! I tried how it works and the fit of the buds is amazing. I now want to have a few of different sizes. I call it a “Budding razor” ! Enjoy! Edit: To protect my hands while keeping the razor in storage, I used 2 pieces of electrical tape as a sheath. Attached Images razor_2.JPG (83.34 KB, 80 views) razor_3.JPG (158.98 KB, 82 views) razor_4.JPG (87.04 KB, 87 views) razor_5.JPG (84.61 KB, 84 views) razor_6.JPG (98.82 KB, 87 views) T671.jpg (15.06 KB, 88 views) razor_7.JPG (179.98 KB, 64 views) __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

Grasa

Registered:1347083219
Posts: 1,819

Posted 1415321744	Reply with quote #2

Genius, now show it at work... __________________ Grasa Seattle, WA

Aaron4USA

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Posts: 2,969

Posted 1415321913	Reply with quote #3

Love it!! I'm gonna make one for me.

Ruuting

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Posts: 613

Posted 1415322114	Reply with quote #4

AAH, innovation! Love it. __________________ Rui Southeast CT, zone 6B

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1415322266	Reply with quote #5

Quote: Originally Posted by Grasa Genius, now show it at work... Yeap, this weekend I will be doing some grafting! I also got the budding rubber for this purpose. Another benefit to have a sharp point, after you made a cross cut with 2 blades, just cut along the stem to make a patch with a tip. Since the blades are new, the patch edges are very clean. __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

greenfig

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Posts: 3,182

Posted 1415329756	Reply with quote #6

Quote: Originally Posted by Aaron4USA Love it!! I'm gonna make one for me. Aaron, I think it is a good idea to have one larger screw and one smaller on each blade. The smaller screw would give you some wiggle room for tuning and alignment of the blades. __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

cis4elk

Registered:1347840383
Posts: 1,718

Posted 1415343367	Reply with quote #7

Igor you are clever! I was thinking about using re purposed saw blade, cut/shaped/and sharpened to knives and then screwed to the block. But I didn't even consider sheet rock blades, waaaaaay easier. Funny thing is I have hunting knife/tool which uses a sheet rock blade, I should have thought of that too. Attaboy! __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

lampo

Registered:1329071797
Posts: 2,060

Posted 1415361984	Reply with quote #8

Igor, That is a nice, ingenious and cheap 'walnut budding knife' as they call it Some of our traditional (old hands) farmers follow this same concept the blades coming from scrap carbon steel rusty saw blades. Shoemakers also use the same scrap saw blades to make their very sharp knives. Some go a bit further and use the concept for the pair of vertical cuts The wood 'handle' surfaces will have to be cut to angle the blades Francisco Portugal

FiggyFrank

Registered:1347560723
Posts: 2,712

Posted 1415366530	Reply with quote #9

Outstanding, Igor! Looks like something I would do. No way could I justify $200....heck, even $50 for something that can be manipulated so easily. __________________ Frank zone 7a - VA

cis4elk

Registered:1347840383
Posts: 1,718

Posted 1415374207	Reply with quote #10

Francisco, The blades on the budding knife slightly angled inward, like a slight V-shape? Can you take a picture of yours head-on so we can get an idea of the angle? __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

greenfig

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Posts: 3,182

Posted 1415374576 · Edited	Reply with quote #11

Calvin, I thought Francisco meant the vertical cuts, along the stem (oriented ground to the sky on a tree). Those need to be V-shaped to be perpendicular to the bark surface. At least that’s my understanding. I believe the cross cuts made by a Tina knife are parallel. __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

cis4elk

Registered:1347840383
Posts: 1,718

Posted 1415375929	Reply with quote #12

Just to clarify. I was thinking that the cuts would be parallel, however the surface/face of the cuts would be angled like a V. __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

lampo

Registered:1329071797
Posts: 2,060

Posted 1415383931	Reply with quote #13

Calvin, Igor, I do not have that knife for the vertical rectangle sides but a quick tabulation tells me that assuming you are dealing approx with 1/2" to 5/8" diameters stock/scions , a 80 to 90º degree angle could well do it. You would need to adjust the blades position on the wood 'V' handle, for the arc length you need before fixing the screws. But the simple twin blades done as per Igor's 'patent' , two small pocket knives glued/welded on a convenient spacer, the carbon steel saw blades,.etc.. are more than enough for the purpose and if done properly (very simple) and at the right timing, it hardly fails. Let' bud now !! Francisco

brackishfigger

Registered:1366681613
Posts: 270

Posted 1415384694 · Edited	Reply with quote #14

most grafting knives are only sharpened/beveled on one side, allowing for a flat/planar mating surface, with the bevel pushing the "waste" side away. As I read it, the double knife uses the same single-sided bevel, with the bevel facing out on both sides, but since the thickness of the cut is only bark-thick, there is probably minimal angling of the cut on the beveled side. The scion bark would therefore be cut/removed with 90 degree angles ("inside the knives"), and the rootstock would have edges that slightly taper in towards the removed bark ("ouside the knives"), but the latter not enough to matter. I would expect the razor blade set up to work very well for this too.

greenfig

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Posts: 3,182

Posted 1415385276 · Edited	Reply with quote #15

Francisco, I would like to clarify for myself here. When you talk about adjusting the blades position on the wood 'V’ handle, do you refer to making the A cuts or B in the drawing below? __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

lampo

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Posts: 2,060

Posted 1415389988 · Edited	Reply with quote #16

Igor, I mean the B1 and B2 sides of the rectangle. the needed blade adjustment on the block handle 'V' sides would give you the desired linear dimension for arcs A1 and A2 for a proper size patch. If you draw a mid section of the tool you have in mind on a given scale, rapidly you will find the close detail of the ideal size for the wood handle, and the slope/angle for the surfaces where the blades are to be fixed with screws-You shall have to start with an average size/diameter stock/scion. For these particular budding tools (not a grafting cutter) , IMO, a beveled blade is not necessary. The beveled blade is needed for the plain, uniformly flat cuts on the scions for cleft, bark, skin... grafting, .. the two main and exactly similar cuts on stock and scion for whip as well as whip and tongue grafts, to extract the scion wood chips for 'T' budding, side grafts...etc..etc Budding and Grafting is fun.. believe me! Prepare and train your skills for the coming grafting and budding to start in February (Cal) Francisco Portugal

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1415392724	Reply with quote #17

Francisco, Thank you for our explanation. I understood you correctly then. My tool was designed for the A cuts, it is straight and that is how it is supposed to be. I believe the A cuts are more important since a good match there would keep the scion alive and support the healing. The B cuts are trickier since the cut sizes would depend on the scion size (curvature, diameter) and its straightness but also important. I will think about the design. __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

HarveyC

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Posts: 3,294

Posted 1415423223	Reply with quote #18

Good job, Igor. I suggested something similar to Paul in SD, perhaps using blades for a carpet knife. I believe the fact that the blade is sharpened on both sides is of little consequence. In the video of the expert grafter/budder (located in Lake County, about two hours north of me), he said the vertical cuts do not need to be a close match and, in fact, he suggests that it's better of the rootstock's cuts are a little wider so that there is room to push tube bud patch in. I noticed when placing the bud patch that it does push out sideways and fill in the gaps. But the only really importing union being formed is at the top and bottom along the horizontal cuts. For reasons I've never understood, traditional budding tools include a lifter that is made from either brass or ivory (or maybe plastic these days). I believe it's thought that any sort of steel has some sort of harmful interaction with the bud material. We have had nice weather here and I hope to do more budding this next week. __________________ Harvey - Correia Farms Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14 http://www.figaholics.com https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

greenfig

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Posts: 3,182

Posted 1415424850 · Edited	Reply with quote #19

Quote: Originally Posted by HarveyC Good job, Igor. I suggested something similar to Paul in SD, perhaps using blades for a carpet knife. I believe the fact that the blade is sharpened on both sides is of little consequence. In the video of the expert grafter/budder (located in Lake County, about two hours north of me), he said the vertical cuts do not need to be a close match and, in fact, he suggests that it's better of the rootstock's cuts are a little wider so that there is room to push tube bud patch in. I noticed when placing the bud patch that it does push out sideways and fill in the gaps. But the only really importing union being formed is at the top and bottom along the horizontal cuts. For reasons I've never understood, traditional budding tools include a lifter that is made from either brass or ivory (or maybe plastic these days). I believe it's thought that any sort of steel has some sort of harmful interaction with the bud material. We have had nice weather here and I hope to do more budding this next week. Thanks, Harvey! I will do some patch budding too. My understanding is that steel oxidizes and interacts with the moist tissue and could be not desirable in the budding business. On the other hand, in the video, the grafter suggested not to use the lifter but to try to slide the patch off sideways (if I remember it correctly), so the lifter may not be even necessary. If needed, I have a lifter on the actual grafting knife. Good luck with your budding! __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

ediblelandscapingsc

Registered:1343459620
Posts: 348

Posted 1415452476	Reply with quote #20

Thanks for sharing Igor, I love the way you use what you got. I'll have to make me one also, I plan on grafting about 700 trees this coming spring and will be sure to try this on some of them. If you get a chance please post some pictures of your grafts after they take. __________________ South Carolina zone 7b-8

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1415483181	Reply with quote #21

Thanks, Daniel. 700 ??? Like in 7 hundred? I am just curious why so many. I will take the grafting photos for sure and post them. I am waiting when my rootstock tree is ready but will try to practice tomorrow to cut and match the patches on the twigs from wild figs (no shortage of those). __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

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