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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #51 

Pete,

Well it is progressing but Now I am not sure if I should bend the branches down along the  support or if I should cut them off and let them T.  I let two ground level branches grow so each plant has two trunks currently.  Just not sure which way would be better....  before and now pics.
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #52 
WillsC,
Thanks... Its looking good.

If you have a main trunk with two branches each growing vertically you are already there. If you have already selected vertical branches that will be trained horizontal, I would let them grow to at least 6 feet (or 1/2 the plant spacing) before placing them horizontal, they will need to be staked. Note the nodes should be as far apart as possible (keep watered and fertilized) for better vertical spacing when laid horizontal.

Thanks for posting your progress.
WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #53 
Pete,

Each of the plants currently has two "trunks" they branch right at or just below ground level.   I have thought about criss crossing the trunks....so the trunk to the right would go left and vice versa.  Well spaced nodes they have.....because they have the pool cage to their south the sun they get is mostly filtered but do get a couple of direct hours so to me they look a bit leggy compared to the figs I have in full sun.
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #54 
WillsC,

I believe the vascular flow will be a problem as the main trunk gets larger (older), if you change directions abruptly. One of the reasons for balancing the trunks is to allow for uninterrupted flow to the verticals, all the energy of the tree is intentionally directed to the fruiting verticals. Leggy is good : )
If you can get as much vertical growth as possible before placing horizontal, you will save yourself a lot of work.

I have 4 branches that were to be laid horizontal, they were placed on a 45 degree angle, they have now branched and have stopped growing on the vertical, and I'm 3 feet short. I now have to prune off all the branches and place it back in the vertical to gain the required height, before placing horizontal again.
Chivas

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Posted Reply with quote  #55 
I will start a thread soon, but the RdB seems to be a great candidate for this, I also started with two trunk and just trained horizontally from the get go.  Anywhere I want there to be a vertical I let grow a few leaves then pinch the top and hope there will be buds next year to grow, every 4-5 days right now I have to adjust the clip on the horizontals to keep it from moving up so I am hoping for another two feet of growth this season before I pinch the tips to harden them off for the winter which would give me about 3-4 feet of growth this year on each horizontal. 
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #56 
Chivas,
I have 2 feet on several cultivars already, but they are growing vertical. I expect to have 4-6 feet before placing them horizontal in a few months. With a longer growing season, they would be taller. The reasoning behind this is to develop the largest possible caliper in the main trunk and future main horizontals, by keeping all the plants energy resources concentrated on increasing the length of those main branches. The branching will occur naturally when the limb is placed horizontal.

Picture of a vertical branch (E) placed horizontal. the only other procedure performed on this branch was removal of the apical end (tip).
Inline image
Chivas

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Posted Reply with quote  #57 
I am just hoping that it will be alright doing this way, if not I will have to start over again, not a big deal for me and I will then do it the same way as you're describing, it's a second year old tree that I just planted in ground this spring so fingers crossed.
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #58 
Chivas,
The "2 feet" is on 1 year olds still in 5 gallon buckets. I have not planted them in ground as yet. I'm regrowing healthy roots before transplanting.

The pictured stepover is a 2 year old vertical branch.

It will probably be OK, it may just take a little longer to reestablish the unrestricted vascular flow within the main branches (it allows for uniform fast growth of the verticals). Good Luck.
Centurion

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Posted Reply with quote  #59 
Are you guys doing anyhing special when you bend your verticle branches to the horizontal?

I lost a bunch of branches this winter.  After the trees went dormant, most of the limbs I had bent over and tied developed cracks and began to seperate from the main branch and died.  This year I am trying to catch them younger, as they're more supple, but I am constantly having to retie them as the tips want to go back to verticle.

What's your secret?
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Dave
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #60 
Nothing special here, bend in stages over a one week period. Maybe 10 - 15 degrees per day. I have bent 2 inch diameter branches, one day at a time.
They were also bent in spring when sap was flowing. Not in winter or when they were dormant.

<edit> I initially bend the branch until I feel some resistance, then I start the incremental daily repositioning.
Centurion

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Posted Reply with quote  #61 
Naw.  I bent em in the summer as first year growth.  They split after they hardened off.  What I didn't do was to bend them a little at a time, in stages, like you do.  I just pulled em horozontal from the get go and tied them off.   That may well be the problem.  Thanks, Pete.
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #62 
Dave wanted an update on my stepover project and it has been awhile so here goes.  



The first picture is in March before I planted the cuttings I started in November but shows off the rebar support I welded up and cemented in.  It surrounds my pool cage on 2 sides.  The entire project is VDB.




This picture was taken in June.





These 3 were taken just now.  The plants are now over 6' tall and left 2 stems per plant one will be bent each direction.  






I know I should not have left the figs on but could not bring myself to tear them off.  




The plants are now big enough to I think just fill in the rebar supports........not sure if I should bend them now or wait till they go dormant, thoughts?  
Centurion

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Posted Reply with quote  #63 
Looking GOOD.  I know what you mean abut not wanting to strip off fruit the first year.

I would bend them  before they go dormant.   They're more supple now.   Just be careful and don't bend too much too soon like I did (see my post above).
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Dave
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Posted Reply with quote  #64 
I would not have let them get that tall before I bent then. I would have bend them when they are small, tying them down as they grow. That is just my though.
Centurion

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Posted Reply with quote  #65 
See post #61 (above) by ascspete.

I presently bend as they grow too, but I like his idea, and he says he's doing it successfully.   I'm just not disciplined enough to get out there day after day and bend branches in small increments, or I'd do the same.
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #66 
I really did not want to bend them now as the chickens and ducks will take the fruit......I will see what I can do about that.  
bugs

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Posted Reply with quote  #67 
That are you going to do with the chicken and duck when you bent them? Next year your figs are going to be close to the grown.
WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #68 

Bugs,


You bend the trunk down to form a long horizontal trunk.  The fig then sends up new stems from the nodes that grow upright so you basically have a curtain of 4 foot tall stems coming off the main horizontal trunk so they are chicken and duck safe:)  
WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #69 
I decided to bend the figs down this morning and it was very easy and the plants were still amazingly supple.  There was no need to bend them in stages as they conformed to the position I wanted effortlessly.  
  



The plants filled in quite well with lopping about 6" off the end of each stem for the loss of apical dominance.  







I did have one setback......on all the other VDB's I allowed two stems to develop at ground level for one branch to go each direction.  On one cutting it just would not cooperate so it was branched 6" up instead of at ground level.  When I tried to bend it I could see the acute angle was going to be a splitting hazard and just knew at some point it would split.  I bit the bullet and cut it off near ground level removing the entire 6 foot tall stems Ouch......I will let them regrow from the ground as two stalks so all the plants look the same.  It will set it back but in the long run it was the right call.  




A thank you btw to Dom, Chivas and Jpeaspanen as it was their cuttings that made the project possible.
brackishfigger

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Posted Reply with quote  #70 
That is going to be spectacular!  I have found in my shaping that minor loss of planar shape is not noticed as the trunks grow in diameter, the differences become less apparent.  I would have advised to leave a "hump" in the shape where the now-cut trunk had been bent down.  Nevertheless, with patience you will now get a more asthetically pleasing form.  Keep the pics coming!!
cis4elk

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Posted Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
I would have advised to leave a "hump" in the shape where the now-cut trunk had been bent down.


I suppose it depends on how high the hump is, and I haven't espaliered figs; but with other plants I find if there is a node at or near the apex of the hump it will become very dominanant over the others. Even when I have a standard fruit tree where the branches are bent with the burden of fruit I end up with some water sprouts. Are you saying this doesn't happen for you? If so, what are you doing to prevent this?
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #72 
Why a hump? 
brackishfigger

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Posted Reply with quote  #73 
When leaning the tree over to run parallel to the ground, you found the trunk too stiff and feared breakage if you went with a 90 degree turn, so he instead cut it off and will grow new branches.  I was saying you could have gone for a lesser angle and bow/curve the tree for a short distance before reaching down to the rebar, thus leaving a "hump".  Calvin's point is well taken, though, although I haven't had trouble with my tree.

edited to change "he" to "you", as I didn't see that you were the stepperoverer. . .
WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #74 
Gotcha......well in any event it would not have matched the others so for me it was best to cut it and let it regrow.  They grow so fast it will catch up before long.  
saxonfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #75 
Hey Wills.

I'm fully set and ready to start a few of these myself this season. I just have to decide which "version" I want to go with. Haven't decided if I'm going to do one horizontal trunk with a single row of verticals or if I want to try two rows of verticals (both coming off of single main trunk) leaning in opposite directions. May just end up experimenting with both or even a 3rd or 4th option just to see which one(s) I like best.  

How are your stepovers looking so far this season? I'm guessing they've started to put on some early growth for you already-?

I also really like Dave's project here. Like yours, he gives such clear photographic detail: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Espalier-sort-of-5407398  

This whole fig growing thing just gets more fun every year ;) !
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #76 
Bill,

My stepover which are VDB are still napping.......in fact I need to prune them down to two nodes and tie them down in to position.  Too many projects too little time.  
saxonfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #77 
Quite alright. I understand about the whole 'too many projects' thing. 

I just wasn't sure if things had warmed up enough yet down your way. Maybe a little later you can share an update - once things start shooting up again (as well as once you get caught up a little ;).
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #78 
Bill,

Some of the figs are leafing out but the VDB lost it's leaves really late.  
WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #79 
An update....I still think I have my verticals too close together.  
Sas

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Posted Reply with quote  #80 

Great looking Espalier project.

I hope that you are at a good distance away from the foundation.

Pruning and training them in the first few years probably comes at the expense of losing fruit, but the end justifies the means.

It should be be relatively easy to throw a birds' net over this elongated shrub in order to protect your fruit.

Best of Luck.
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #81 
WillsC,
Thanks for posting the updated pics.
The in-ground trees in NYC have not even budded out as yet.
Who was your source for the VBDs used in the Espalier? Just curious... Thanks.
WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #82 
Dom. NYPD3527? or whatever the numbers are. Because I had so many there must have been a second source as well though who escapes me.
WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #83 
Sas,

I'm not worried about the foundation, wrong kind of fig to cause that sort of problem plus the roots grow in proportion to the tops and using this style of growing the top never gets huge as it is pruned away each year.  They will fruit this year I am sure.  
jdsfrance

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Posted Reply with quote  #84 
Hi Willsc,
I don't see the stakes to prevent the softy stems to split or fall from the trunk . Are you planning to add some or you'll take the chance and leave the stems like that ?
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #85 
Jdsfrance,


There will be posts and a cable or two to secure the uprights to......just have not got too it yet but it is on the to do list.  
saxonfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #86 
Hey Will. 

Looks like they're off to a good start. It's always nice to see that first growth of the season :) .

Are you planning to train the uprights as a single row or are you planning to lean them outward into that sort-of-a "V" configuration? I imagine you could get away with the shoots being a bit closer together in the latter config.

I have 4 trees in the ground, so far, that I'm working on growing in a quasi step-over fashion. Have plans to do a bunch more. All contingent on how much time and effort I want to put into it in one season.

Thanks for posting the pics. 
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Norhayati

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Posted Reply with quote  #87 
A great project Will. Thanks for sharing all the pictures.

Norhayati
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #88 
Saxon,

They will be the V.  If you look at the picture I posted today you will see bricks and wood in the photo......those were used as weights to bend the shoots parallel but angled from the horizontal trunk.  They are still tied to it but seem to have embraced the new position.not that they had much choice.  As the shoots grow vertical the weight should hold them.  I figure I have about 3 weeks before I need the cables and posts installed or I could risk breakage.   
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Posted Reply with quote  #89 
Ah yes. Upon closer inspection of the picture, I see now. Sounds like you have a plan firmly in mind. Look forward to seeing how it pans out for you this summer. Thanks.
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #90 
I am rather curious about that as well:)   If we get a hurricane or a bad tropical storm I know they will get beat up.  I am fairly sure the uprights will hit 5'.  They were about the last fig to wake up but since them have grown quite well.  
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Posted Reply with quote  #91 
Any chance for a mid-summer update on this? Thanks!
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #92 
Tim,

I did an update just a couple weeks back, here is the link.

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/an-overdue-step-over-update-6981430?pid=1283586951#post1283586951
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