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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
From the first time I saw the Japanese stepover figs I knew I had to try it.  The support rail is rebar with welded legs holding it up.  The legs are cemented in and the top rail sits 18" above ground so there is about a foot of mulch now but it will settle and rot down.  It is about 60 feet total with one 90 degree turn.  It is basically L shaped.  On the long side will be VDB and the short side will be JH Adriatic.   Can't wait to get it planted though I won't have enough of the two varieties to plant the entire thing at once.  Spacing will be 7 feet.  Ignore the chicken that just had to get in the shot.  


 
Tonycm

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Good project. You should get a lot of figs growing it that way, and easier to pick. No ladders involved.
I'm going to try my hand at that this summer for other reasons. I'll be able to protect them better in winter, at least that's the plan.
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Centurion

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
So then...you're going to run laterals along the rail, then allow verticle branching off the two laterals?
Looks pretty cool.
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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Looks great. Reminds me of a monorail.
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Yes each plant will have 2 arms one heading each way.  I have not made up my mind if I will have the verticals come off the main laterals or if I will allow horizontal arms to develop every XX inches and have the verticals come off of them.   I have some time to decide:)  
Centurion

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Please keep us updated with pics of your progress as your trees grow.   You're going to have a beautiful hedge.
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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
WillsC
I live in South Florida, zone 10b and I have read about Japanese commercial production. I have a LSU purple and when I cut the leader it started growing like a grapevine.
The lateral branches got long and certain (two) touching the ground started rooting: this is when I planted two stakes, connected them with a wire and tied the branches to the wires as if it was a vine. It works with some varieties but it is harder with a fast grower like Atreano.
Sal
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DesertDance

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
I think it's a wonderful idea!  I look forward to seeing your posts in the future!  The configuration of our property (hopefully to be) is not conducive to hedges, but I do intend to keep the figs pruned short for easy harvesting. 

Suzi
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 

Vitalucky,

I know it is going to take a lot of pruning.  It will be a fun experiment.  


Suzi,

I have two regular hedges laid out for the figs, I love hedges lol.  One will be 160 feet and the other about 80.  Those though will be made up of many different varieties.   For the stepovers I want just one variety per leg.  It has been suggested I move the spacing a bit futrher apart.
pitangadiego

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
See FigLink 739a
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Jon,

I have seen the link.....while there are a lot of pictures out there the information as far as spacing is very lacking.  
WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Have also finished the shelves in the downstairs windows.
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
WillsC,
Thanks for posting. I am planning to try a few fig espaliers also. Attached is a PDF in Japanese that has most dimensions (metric) for spacing and diagrams for training the espalier.  http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/file?id=1401311
Please keep us updated. Good Luck.

<edit> Spacing of vertical limbs on page 13 & 14: 8 inches (20cm) between on alternate side of main trunk and 16 inches (40cm) on same side of main trunk. (I round out the conversions 4 inch = 10cm)
If the Verticals are in-line it would be approximately 12 inches between verticals.
WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Ascpete,

Wish I could read japanese:)  I can see the between row spacing but still looking for the in row spacing.  

Bobby,

Well.....the main limbs will be at ground level.  The fruiting arms will be unbranched and probably 4+ feet tall so the chickens won't be able to reach them easily.  But if they get some figs so be it.  I am planting 50 varieties of figs and will probably have 70 plants.  I sure as heck can't eat all those figs so the 11 chickens and 23 ducks can turn figs in to eggs and meat for me, a win win.  While I donate a lot of produce to charity the figs would be a problem.  I am already thinking about ways to use them all.  One thought is to pack them for sale at the local farmers market then donate the proceeds.  I have a friend that already sells there so if I give her a % I'm sure she would sell them along with her items.  In any event I have time to work all that out.  
saxonfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Looks great Wills. I had also been thinking about this for the same reason as Tony. Easier to protect in winter. I've already started using a deep mulch method for winter protection. This would be a new dimension of that.

I'd also thought about how the chickens will enjoy any figs within reach. Just their nature to peck at anything that looks like it "could be" food. Do you keep any particular breed of chickens (getting off topic. but just curious :-) )?
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DesertDance

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Looks like a Rhode Island Red to me, and yep!  Those chickens will be in chicken heaven!!
Suzi
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Tonycm

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
I'd say the chicken looks like Comets. I have a couple of them. Good size eggs and they only rest for a short period when it gets cold.
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pitangadiego

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
WillsC,  figured you had seen the pix, but others might not have seen them. Pix always help people understand. ;-))
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saxonfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
If the chickens eat your figs, will they lay figs? Or maybe fig flavored eggs? Just asking :-)) .
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bullet08

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 

woo.. fig stuffed chicken.
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***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
From the top:)

Ascpete,

I found that also..what I am trying to find is spacing on center between plants?  I will do more translating on the PDF.

Saxon,

I keep 11 chickens, 5 Barred rocks, 4 Buff Orphingtons and 2 Silver laced Wyndottes.

Suzi and Tony,

The chicken that is in the pic is a Buff Orphington.

Nobody asked but the ducks are Muscovies.

Jon,

Pictures are always helpful:)  You are right..I should have posted it as some probably did not know what stepover figs were.  

Saxon,

Yes.....if they eat a lot of figs they could lay eggs that had a fig taste, in theory anyway.  The reason I know that is I love to fish.  We catch a lot of grouper in the Gulf of Mexico and I had got in the habit of giving the carcasses to the chickens.  They love that sort of thing and would strip it clean.  Grouper are large fish with a lot of wasted meat on them.  Would throw the skeletons in the freezer and give them one a day.  We fish quite a lot so they were getting one almost every day.  I noticed after awhile that the eggs started to have a fishy taste.  Now I have to limit it to no more than two carcasses a week and at that the eggs are fine.  There is nothing like real free range eggs.  Here is a picture of true free range egg from my birds as opposed to store bought.  You can see how deep and rich orange the yolk is compared to the yellow factory farm eggs.  They are also lower in cholesterol and more nutritious. 
DesertDance

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
OK, now here we go off topic!  Along with the (working on it) dream for acreage to expand the vineyard and put the figs in-ground is a chicken coop stocked with laying hens (already have them named)!!

Traveling down country roads we saw a fresh egg sign.  JD, on command, turned the wheel, and there was a cooler outside a gate with a sign to put $3.00 in the mailbox for a dozen free range eggs.  Done deal!  They looked exactly like yours WillisC!  They tasted delicious!  We have 4 eggs left, and then back to that country road again.  They put their phone number on that egg crate, and I'm going to see if I can get my layers from them.
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JoAnn749

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
That's a great idea for the figs - I'm thinking if there is a way I can do something like that hmmmmmmmmmm....

That's one of the things I dream(ed) about - having chickens!
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saxonfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Wills. You've mentioned two things that I miss. Free range eggs and fresh fish from the gulf. Not necessarily combined though :) .

I used to keep chickens and let them free range. The eggs do have a richer taste than store bought. I haven't had chickens for years though. Lost too many to local dogs and other predators. If I ever do it again I will have to keep them penned up full time.

When I lived in Naples, I would go fishing at the pier sometimes. Occasionally I would bring back a Red Fish, Snook, or Snapper. There's nothing like fresh caught saltwater fish.
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cis4elk

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 

I miss my chickens, I had 7, 6 different varieties. The Buff Orpington was the freindliest one, I had to coop her whenever I was digging for planting, otherwise she would hop in the hole constantly.
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Suzi,

Off topic is fine with me.  Hens are easy, will eat anything.

Joann,

I just think the stepovers look cool, like living art.  They are good for cold protection as well.  On the hens.....a lot of city's now allow people up to 4 hens in the city limits, no roosters though.  Of course don't need roosters for eggs.

Saxon,

The problem with penned up is the birds miss out on the vegetation and bugs so the difference between your eggs and factory farm are diminished.  Of course you can bring goodies to the chickens.  To bring this back to figs.    I got the chickens and ducks because of the population explosion of stink bugs, leaf footed bugs and grass hoppers.   They use to be horrible on all my fruiting plants but now just a minor annoyance.  How the birds can eat those things I don't know but they don't mind a bit.


Calvin,

Yep the Buffs are nice....I avoided the more quarrelsome breeds like the Rhode Islands.  
JoAnn749

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
I met someone who had a pet chicken!  She was very cute and friendly - don't know what kind it was but it had feathers on its feet.  Pretty little thing!
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Tonycm

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
Willsc, I think that the spacing between rows is 6 to 7 feet and the space between the verticals is 8 inches. Looks like they mound the soil up about a foot where it's planted. Don't know why unless it's for drainage.
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Tony,

They are just a single row here.....but I can't see in that PDF where it says how far apart to put the plants down the row....I guess it really probably does not matter.  
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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Tonycm,
On page 11 & 19 there are nodes on the roots, it may be Root Knot Nematode, so they may be planting in 12 inch raised beds.

WillsC,
On page 10 it refers to spacing between rows and also 3 meters and 6 meters which may be spacing between plants. If you review the pictures on page 6 & 15 one horizontal trunk length is approximately 9 feet (2.8 meters, 40 cm x 7).

<edit> This would put the space between plants at about 20 feet or 6 meters. Two (2) 2.8 meter horizontal trunks either side of the main vertical trunk, and 0.4 meters between plants for a total of 6 meters

<edit> The text on page 10 refers to planting at 3 meters on center for the first 2 years then thining to 6 meters on center later.
Tonycm

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
We need to find a translator to figure out this whole thing. It would be nice to know. Until then we'll just have to play it by ear.
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Centurion

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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascpete
Tonycm,
WillsC,
On page 10 it refers to spacing between rows and also 3 meters and 6 meters which may be spacing between plants. If you review the picture on page 6 & 15 one horizontal trunk length is approximately 9 feet (2.8 meters, 40 cm x 7).


From my own observations of trees planted in my hedge with 6-7 ft spacing...if I were to do it again...they would be further apart.

Trees in pic below are all newly planted (May and June).  They will soon be crowding each other, which, although this is the idea behind a hedge, being this close together will require more pruning later on.

(Pic taken in September).

Attached Images
jpeg 100_1694.JPG (953.46 KB, 132 views)

 
Attached Files
zip Fig_Hedge.zip (1018.17 KB, 22 views)


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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
Dave,
You could always thin the trees, remove every other tree. Replant them somewhere else. Your spacing would then be 12 to 14 feet.
Centurion

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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
I may very well do that.  

Temps into the teens last night, and may be into single digets tonight.  These were all planted in May-June, and have not been wrapped, as it rarely gets that cold here.

So Mother Nature may do it for me...... :-(
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
I think I will change the spacing from 7 feet to 14 feet on center after discussing it with Centurian.  Doing that I won't have to change the spray heads I already have installed.  
CTFIGS

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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
I'll see if one of my Japanese friends at work can help with the translation.

Free range eggs are it!! sometimes I feel a little strange eating them because they are soooo dark yellow. I currently have 16 chickens (I hatched most of them) including 4 or 5 roosters, some of those will be going soon...
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Ingevald

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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
It is very good to see some experimentation with this method of growing the figs.    I had posted several links that contained some interesting photos & information a few years ago.    The link in posting #13 above is one of the better documents on the process. 

   It is a fascinating method geared toward productivity.    I also think that there is potential for it to work for those of us attempting to grow figs in northern zones.   Cutting off the annual producing branches back to the large laterals should make covering it with a tarp (stuffed with straw or leaves) for the winter very easy.   Depending on how low your winter low temps get, it might be possible to cover it well and not be concerned about it freezing.   I am in zone 5 (close to 6 now) and so far the plants are surviving without adding heat on the coldest nights.

    I am a bit short on room in my yard now but managed to squeeze into my yard a couple of plants to experiment with.   I hope that folks who are testing this will report on their experiments over the years.

Ingevald
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
Ingevald,
I have been planning to use the step over espalier for those exact reasons, production and protection from weather. Attached is another document that you had linked on your posts that I had edited, for a simple explanation of the procedures that are explained graphically in the PDF. in post #13.
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/file?id=1419860

The following link is Ingevald's post that has several links to the pictures and original document sources.
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Japanese-fig-growing-method-fabulous-photos-4374293
Ingevald

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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
Pete,
    Very nice - thanks for posting the diagram with English text.    

    By the way, the original link for the document in posting #13 is http://www.pref.shiga.jp/hikone-pbo/nogyo/gizyutu/kouza18/fig.pdf and it could be run through a translator for a rough translation.

Ingevald
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
WillsC,
Picture of another step over espalier by member vaplantman. He may be able to assist with dimension questions.
http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff456/vaplantman/CelesteNine.jpg

Topic Location for above Picture which includes his procedure and updated progress. http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Espalier-sort-of-5407398
WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #41 
Centurian,

Here is the picture I mentioned.
Centurion

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Posted Reply with quote  #42 
Looks pretty sturdy.

That oughta work out real well.   We're looking forward to pictures this spring and summer as the hedge progresses.
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WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #43 
I will keep it updated.  The first cuttings are going in to 1 gallon pots now.  
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Posted Reply with quote  #44 
I have a 5 ft straight up and down single trunk panache tree in the ground against the wall. The wood is not bendable. If I want to do this espalier, do I just cut off a few feet off it and then train the side branches. So I would pretty much lose a lot of fig production this yr if I did that.
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nullzero

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Posted Reply with quote  #45 
You guys will enjoy this, this is an older stepover fig grown side ways down the side fence of the yard. I have seen it in person the trunk is close to 6-8 inches in diameter at some parts. It is one continuous fig plant growing down the slope!

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33.83308,-118.389658&spn=0.00036,0.000555&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=33.833173,-118.389647&panoid=CJEKoof1HKbaqn66bFZtZw&cbp=12,236.53,,2,6.31
genecolin

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Posted Reply with quote  #46 
nullzero, I wish this would have been posted earlier last year. I was just a few blocks from there. That would have been a sight to see.
"gene"
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nullzero

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Posted Reply with quote  #47 
Gene,

To bad would of gave you a tour of the hidden fig forests in SoCal as well. I have a good memory of plant locations, I frequently try to make collections of Prickly Pears, through out Southern CA. There was this wonderful huge fig I ate from an old fig tree in San Pedro, CA. Unfortunately I could not track it down, eventually I will find it using google street view lol.
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Posted Reply with quote  #48 
I may be returning in a couple of years. I'll try to remember to give you a shout.
"gene"
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #49 
Hello WillsC,
Any update on the stepover fig project? Thanks.
elin

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Posted Reply with quote  #50 
Would be great to graft multiple varietes to one trunk-"candyland figs" black and whites mixed.

same here:
http://www.betalfa.org.il/ba/images/agriculture/Figs%20(7).JPG
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