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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
This is one fruit that used to make me very angry but yet always go back to wanting to eat again and again.
The reason I was angry with this is because just when you think it is ready or soft enough to eat, the base part (close to the stem) starts making your mouth feel dry and curdled (if that's even a word, LOL) 
SO, I was introduced to this idea of "How to make the Persimmons ripen to perfection fast".
 1-You wash them and throw them in the freezer.
 2-When you need few for consumption, bring them out of the freezer and let them how overnight (personally, I wait one more day before eating)when thawed, and back to room temperature, you can eat them and they taste just like perfectly ripe, as they should be for consumption.

Enjoy ;)

20141129_224704.jpg 
I'll post more pics of the thawed and ready to eat ones...
donpaid

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Haha I know exactly what you mean. Unripe hachiya persimmons are extremely unpleasnt...but when they're fully ripe, they're so delicious and unique in flavor. I guess when they're unripe, they're "unique" in flavor too lol

I had no idea about the freezer method. Thanks for sharing Aaron.
greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Yeap, the freezer works fine but it changes the texture of the persimmons slightly, they become more like a jam.

To ripen in a different way, try in a paper bag with some apples.
Put 2 large apples with 5-6 Hachiya fruit in a paper bag, roll the top to seal and leave for a few days.
They will ripen very nicely, the apples help a lot.

I like to eat them with a few Meyer lemon drops on each slice (or a spoon full) , the result is perfectly sweet-and-sour!
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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
They are veeeery sweet when ripe and mushey.
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Bass

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
besides the freezer which can somewhat alter the flavor, the easiest way i get them to ripen is in bag with an apple. I just put about 10 persimmons to a couple apples. 
This year I attempted this Japanese method of drying them. I peeled the skin, and hung them on a string. 2-3 weeks later I got a delicious sun dried persimmon. They're even sweeter than fresh ones. 
These are the Russyanka persimmon that I dried. 


1781206_10152875932076322_771681740055983236_o.jpg

 

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cyberfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
That's a great tip on freezing them Aaron. Like you and me, birds will not eat astringent persimmons. They will eat unripe Fuyu (non-astringent), but they leave Hachiya (astringent) alone until they are ripe. So, if you know how to remove the astringency, you can pick them before the birds get to them.

Rather than freezing the whole persimmon, my wife likes to peel them, mush them up, measure into 2 cup portions, and then freeze them in a zip lock bag. That's just the right amount for one batch of persimmon bread.

The astringency can also be removed by baking or dehydrating them. So, if you plan to do either, you don't need to freeze them unless you plan to eat them raw. My wife dehydrates at least a few bushels of Hachiya persimmons every year. They are like candy!

By the way, I love offering my unknowing friends a nice juicy slice of unripe persimmon. The look on their faces is priceless.
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Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
I had a few not quite ripe enough to eat raw hachiyas. I was going to peel them before drying, but my wife sliced them with the peel still on and put them in the dehydrator over night. Not a hint of astringency in the dried peel or fruit, even though it wasn't completely dried, mostly soft and chewy.

I've been buying flats of fuyu at the Farmers market.

All the trees I bought as described in the other recent persimmon topic are astringent. I didn't want to spray and/or compete with critters like I do with other non-astringent fruit.

Tried freezing and drying native Virginiana unripe fruit but it was still very astringent. They will be getting cut for asian grafts requested from UCD.

I bought two Nesco Gardenmaster dehydrators last year, one for myself and the other for mom. The FD-1018A ia a great deal at $118 shipped and a very quiet and efficient design:

http://www.everythingkitchens.com/americanharvest.html?gclid=CNrx4NubosICFe_m7AodtFUAHg

I bought a case of TR2 expansion trays this year for about $100 or $8.33 per 15" tray. The dehydrator is 1000 watts and rated for up to 30 trays. 
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paully22

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Excellent info. Every year I give away hundreds of Fuyu. This is the 1st year where we slice them
them and dehydrate. Man, they taste great. We eat them as snacks, yum yum. By the way do
you guys think the persimmons sold at large stores are ripen with the help of gases ? A friend told
me a large super market chain here have a ripening room for fruits, more so for bananas so that
they are ripen at the same time for sale.
Ogorodnitsa

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Instead of starting another OT Persimmon thread in a fig forum :), I thought I'd just post my question here. It's my understanding that some persimmons have seeds, while others do not. Typically the ones in supermarkets do not, however on a rare occasion I will find a seed or two. Has anyone tried starting persimmons from seed? What is the likelihood of getting a male tree this way? How long would it take to produce fruit? I'd be interested in hearing anyone's tips on growing persimmons. Thanks! :)
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Gofigure

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
No idea about large grocery stores having ripening storage rooms.

I've found one large seed in a hachiya purchased from Publix in Peachtree City, GA.
It's in the fridge currently, in damp paper towel in a zip lock.

The way I understand it is:

The Asian types are tropical. To handle as cold as zone 7, they are grafted to native persimmon, usually Virginiana. If I get a seedling, I'll attempt to develop cuttings for grafting and keep it potted to move inside for winter; definitely the hard way since native seedlings are dirt cheap and cuttings are basically free plus shipping from UCD. UCD also has a few native types that produce larger fruit than the typical wild Virginiana.

Maybe somebody who has had Persimmon trees for a few years will chime in.

 
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joann1536

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Lots of persimmons here in the SF Bay Area.  I have a bunch of them from my neighbor's tree sitting on my kitchen counter right now, ripening one at a time.  Thanks for a good way to get them all ripe at one time!
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Charlie

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Stopped to make a delivery last week and inspected the large native persimmon tree that makes fairly large fruits for a native, I have been watching all year.  The first fruit was totally seedless. Almost got excited until the next one, but it only had two.  They both were still just a tad puckery.  Very uncommon in my experience for locals to not have many if any seeds.  Fact, I can't remember ever finding them with no seeds.

The few seeds in this year's Fuyu crop were not formed.  Just some flat shells of seeds but none were fully ripe either.  
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greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
The persimmons need to be pollinated by male flowers to produce seeds.
One way is to plant a Chocolate variety. The tree makes male and female flowers. The downside of having the male flowers neat your female persimmon trees is all the ripe fruits will have the seeds. Some even too many.

Not everyone likes this, although the pollinated fruit tastes better.

The seeds will sprout and they are good for grafting.
You need to start them in deep pots because the tap root is quite long.
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Petechanr

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Free seeds of ichi ke jiro
Send an S.A.S.E
5 seeds per request
Pm for my address

Attached Images
jpeg image.jpg (168.61 KB, 96 views)
jpeg image.jpg (395.30 KB, 99 views)


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RichinNJ

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petechanr
Free seeds of ichi ke jiro
Send an S.A.S.E
5 seeds per request
Pm for my address


That's a really nice tree your have there Peter.
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Does a Persimmon tree require cold winter?
MnMsMom9902

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
We live in the San Jose, California, area (Zone 9b), and we have a Giant Fuyu persimmon tree in our backyard.  I am not sure if the tree requires cold winter, but every other year we get a large crop (around 100 fuyus) from that tree.
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Rooting: just about ready to try...
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 

cyberfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron4USA
Does a Persimmon tree require cold winter?



I planted about 20 persimmons here in Fallbrook this year and so far have only 6 fruits still ripening on one of my Hachiya. However, my wife harvests as much as she can handle from two abandoned trees in our neighborhood. Those trees probably get about the same chill hours as you would in LA and produce heavily - without irrigation.
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Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron4USA
Does a Persimmon tree require cold winter?



No, I do not believe so. They do just fine in LA.
The seeds, on the other hand, require stratification or going trough an acid environment (coyote's stomach, for example) to germinate better.
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cyberfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron4USA




LOVED this video!

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Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
I'd love to try that LARGE variety...
Where to find though ;/
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Paul, 
how big is your property exactly?
20 persimmon trees, plus you have figs and other fruit i am assuming...;)
you must have a great setup for eatable backyard.

Igor,
we have plenty of Coyotes in Glendale, but how do I feed the persimmons to them, I might need your help. lol
greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Aaron,

That was ONE of the ways used by the Nature :)
Just Google for the Persimmon seeds germination. You will find how to stratify the seeds in a fridge for a few months and germinate in the Spring.
The seedlings is best to graft with the known varieties afterwords.

The Persimmon scions can be obtained from the UCD, same place you order the figs from!
Just search for "Diospyros Kaki".
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
OK, here they are, ready to eat, tasted awesome.

20141130_233544.jpg
Vladis

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Aaron- http://www.greffer.net/?p=360. Ð¥.Джиро.2014.Всё..jpg 
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Vladik, 
Those look nice and crunchy, thanks for the website.

Igor,
I read it at UCD... but I don't even have a Rootstock for scion to be grafted on. Maybe I'll just order entire tree? I want those huge stringent type. the type that I can freeze and then eat. They taste much better then the Fuyu, in my opinion. I need to find out the name and exact the type that I want. I remember when I was 12-14 in Baku, one of my dads friend who was best friend of Aliev (the president) had a dacha and over there...man that place looked like Garden of Eden. anyway, he had this humongous variety of Karalyok, size of a newborn baby's head. They would fall off of the tree early in the morning as they thawed and nobody would touch them...
greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
Oh, man, the best friend of Aliev was a king and the god and just behind Aliev himself :), it is hard to compete with those guys.

The varieties you want are Hachiya and Giombo (you can get at UCD) then. Giombo is a larger version of Hachiya, both are astringent.
I would buy a Hachiya tree from OSH and plant it. A good size tree would run for $50-70 or so, wait for a sale or when they pay the sale tax.
Then you can get a few scions of Giombo and other varieties and graft to Hachiya branches. You will have a nice tree in a few years with everything you want.
The best way of grafting the Persimmons is Chip budding in the Spring when the bugs wake up.
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Vladis

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Аарон, мои сеянцы из России. Мой рекорд H ТУ-Ð¥- 571 гр..jpg  achiya - 571 грамм фруктов.

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Vladis

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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
ТУ-Ð¥-10-21..jpg  Fruit size in cm.

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Vladis

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
ТУ-Ð¥-Высота 13 см..jpg 

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paully22

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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
My Fuyu persimmons -- every other year we get a big harvest. Tree is about 20 yrs old
Vladis

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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
Ð¥-Ха-Сбор.Много..jpg  In 2014 in Russia a little persimmon trees. In 2013, he was a good harvest.

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cyberfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
Aaron, I have four acres, but I am already running out of room. Every available space already has a tree in my nursery ready to go in the ground as soon as my aching back is ready to dig another hole. 

The North County CRFG conducted "Persimmon Palooza" last year on November 15th. I can't find my notes, but I do remember that Greg Rager, a volunteer at the South Coast Research and Extension Center, said that the giant Fuyu had less flavor than most other varieties. He suggested that two of the best varieties available in this country are Nikita's Gift and Hyakume (espcially good for drying). As far as I can tell, no nurseries in California sell either variety and no out-of-state nursery will ship it here.
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Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
Ogorodnitsa

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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
Pete,

Does Ichi Ke Jiro do well in Zone 6B or is it grafted onto another type?
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zone5figger

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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
Aaron, I believe the fruit treatment process you refer to is also known as 'bletting'.  Certain other fruits benefit from this, like medlars and quince.
Up here in the north country, we are at the boundary of the american persimmon.    I've seen a few laden trees of variety 'Meader', although fruit size was much smaller than those depicted here.   I have a few young seedling trees growing here, and intend to try grafting over a few to varieties 'Meader', 'Early Golden', 'Dollywood', 'Szukis'.
Greenfig, I appreciate you sharing your grafting experience, usually I would use chip grafting in the summer season, but I think I have read that it's important to leave some growth above persimmon grafts?   My instinct would be to use whip and tongue, since that's one I've had good results with.   Maybe I'll try a couple of each..
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RichinNJ

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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by paully22
My Fuyu persimmons -- every other year we get a big harvest. Tree is about 20 yrs old







Good looking fruit. Nice pictures.
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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
Caitlin,

My trees are grafted, bought them from Starkbros nursery. They're very low maintenance, produced from 300-400 persimmons each year. No problems whatsoever except for birds and squirrels when come time to harvest.
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
Thanks everybody, so much good info and advise. This is awesome.

Vladik,
Those Russian Karalyoks are amazing tasting, they do have seeds but the crunchy/jelatinous tissue sack surrounding the seeds is so fun to eat.

Paul,
Is it my eyes or your Fuyus are unusually big?
They look amazing.

OK Igor,
When I buy the tree you are going to be the one grafting it. I'm not good for grafting.

Paul (Cyberfarmer),
4 acres is plenty, unless you are planting an orchard...what are your plans for the property?
I wish I have a piece of land to plant a fruit forest and a little bungalow to leave in, under the trees where I can chase the birds and dears with couple of Rotwilers.

Jesse,
Medlar takes me back to my childhood, haha...we used to throw them in a pillow case and bang it on the walls to bruise them, then, few days later they are soft., Interesting word "Bletting" I had never heard that word, tanks for the info. :)
greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
If you get a nice Hachiya, you may not need any grafting. Not the first year for sure.
Good luck with it! It is a common tree over here.
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padsfan

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Posted Reply with quote  #41 
I really prefer Saijo over Hachiya as a astringent type and they are available in California through Trees of Antiquity and LE Cooke bare root (winter).  You really cant go wrong with Fuyu though and they are the most available type in CA.
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cyberfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
Originally Posted by padsfan
I really prefer Saijo over Hachiya as a astringent type and they are available in California through Trees of Antiquity and LE Cooke bare root (winter).  You really cant go wrong with Fuyu though and they are the most available type in CA.


Thanks for the tip. We are so limited on selection in California compared to other states. I also like that its seedless. That way I can run the fruit through a tomato slicer in one shot. I guess I need to order MORE trees now. 
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Posted Reply with quote  #43 
Nikita's Gift, Prok and Hachiya on the way soon.  Really looking forward to drying them. 
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RichinNJ

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Posted Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron4USA



Cool video Aaron. Thanks
paully22

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Posted Reply with quote  #45 
@ Aaron - This year crop is one of the best. My tree had a big crop and I am so happy that at least 65% of them
aborted at various stages, giving rise to bigger fuyu's. Also, I prune my tree and new branches produces big fuyu's.
We had basket loads of fuyu's from this season harvest and we gave many to friends. I am sure my tree is
not a giant fuyu variety.
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Posted Reply with quote  #46 
I'm going to try that freezer method Aaron. I have 1 wild Virginiana tree in my neighborhood and no one I know has a hybrid tree. I love the sweetness of the store bought ones but even the best ones have a bit of astringency. If I can get rid of that, I'll have to get a tree.
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Posted Reply with quote  #47 
Aaron, try England's for a unique selection of persimmons. http://nuttrees.net/
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Posted Reply with quote  #48 
Andy, are you growing persimmons here?
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #49 
Aaron D,
I am planning to freeze about 10Ls of stringent type in my freezer chest, for off season cravings. They stay solid like that for as long as you want them to.
I have to go to Super King Market for those.

Andy,
thans for the link, what's an amazing variety those Korean Persimmons are... wow. I had never seen anything in that color in my life.

Here's what I was buying today, with my kids, at a nearby ethnic store, where I buy our cold-cuts usually.
Not bad for a dollar if you ask me.

20141203_185905.jpg 
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Posted Reply with quote  #50 
Ð¥.Джир.Разр.4 Д..jpg  Мягкая, сочная, вкусная Джиро. Никогда вяжущий.

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