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Encanto Farms Nursery > Topics > OT: Save Decapitated Cherimoya!
 
 


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cyberfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
I planted two cherimoya trees in the same hole about six months ago: Nata and Orton. They got off to a slow start, but finally started to perk up a little lately. They are only about 1/2" diameter right now and not quite three feet tall. One of them had an awkward bend about 12 inches from the soil level. My wife thought it looked crooked. She decided to straighten it out. She snapped the trunk right off. Right off. Snapped. Off.
 
So, now I have a 12 inch tall twiggy trunk sticking out of the ground (no side branches). My first instinct was to treat the severed top of the tree like a cutting. I stripped off the two lower branches and stuck it inn a 3 gallon pot of soil. I then stripped off about 40% of the lower leaves, watered it, and stuck it in the shade. Does it have any chance of rooting?
 
I just now had the idea that I might be able to graft it back on to the base. Would I have a better chance of success if I graft it back on? What kind of graft should I attempt?
 
Please help. I love cherimoyas.
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Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
rafaelissimmo

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
I wish I could help you. Cherimoya is one of my favorite fruits.
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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
 if you seal the wound, it should grow  again, with more side branches.  Just protect it!
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cyberfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafaelissimmo
I wish I could help you. Cherimoya is one of my favorite fruits.


I think they are fantastic. I'm very upset about this. I was looking forward to that fruit.
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Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
cyberfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
I think I have found my own answer in The Grafter's Handbook:

BottleGraft.gif 

The water bottle will sustain the severed head until it bonds with the base tree.

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Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
cyberfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasa
 if you seal the wound, it should grow  again, with more side branches.  Just protect it!


Do you think it would be better to just seal it and leave it instead of trying to graft the top back on? 

I don't know how to protect my trees from my wife. This is not the first accident.
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Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
aaa

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
hi c/farmer
cherimoyas definatetly do not strick from cuttings.
why two trees in one hole?  i would dig up the broken one
and replant it,
your best bet would be to use a standard whip and tounge, which is very
succesful on cherimoya , and graft it back on the rootstock.
im going to graft about 30 of them soon.
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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaa
hi c/farmer
cherimoyas definatetly do not strick from cuttings.
why two trees in one hole?  i would dig up the broken one
and replant it,
your best bet would be to use a standard whip and tounge, which is very
succesful on cherimoya , and graft it back on the rootstock.
im going to graft about 30 of them soon.


Thanks for the response aaa. I did two trees in one hole to help pollination and to fit more trees into less space. Like this: http://www.davewilson.com/home-gardens/backyard-orchard-culture

As for the graft, I like the idea of the whip and tongue because it leaves a very tidy connection compared to an approach graft. I like the idea of the bottle graft since it supplies the scion with a water source, but not as crazy about the approach graft connection. If I go with a standard whip and tongue, I will have a 1 foot base supporting a two foot scion. Do you think I should trim off any side branches or leaves from the scion? Cut the leaves in half? I'm just worried about the proportions of the scion to the host.
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Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
padsfan

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaa
hi c/farmer
cherimoyas definatetly do not strick from cuttings.
why two trees in one hole?  i would dig up the broken one
and replant it,
your best bet would be to use a standard whip and tounge, which is very
succesful on cherimoya , and graft it back on the rootstock.
im going to graft about 30 of them soon.



I agree completely
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aaa

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
you only need a few buds on the scion so cutting it shorter will be a benifit.
remove all leaves and make a fresh cut on the scion a bit above the break
and you will have matching diameters for grafting.
as for pollination unless you have tiny pollinating insects (usually a little beatle)
you will have to hand polinate.
we do not have pollinating insects over here. 
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Posted Reply with quote  #11 

Cherimoya do not root from cuttings. If it is broken off above the graft, it will put out new shoots from the existing buds. If it is broken off below the graft union, ten you need to graft some of the broken off portion back onto the rootstock. Use a whip and tongue graft. Cherimoya grafts take pretty easily.

[gp910-15] 
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cyberfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
OK, so I attempted a whip and tongue graft today. I have seen it done in person a few times, on YouTube several times, and in books. Mine didn't fit together like perfect puzzle pieces.  I re-cut and spliced it again and got a little better result, but still pitiful looking. The cherimoya seems to have a nice meaty cambium layer. Even though my fit wasn't great, I could see that there was plenty of cambium to cambium contact. So, I wrapped it tightly with Buddy Tape and called it a day. I also set up my 10' x 10' pop-up canopy to shade the tree while it is mending.
 
As I mentioned in my first post, I already removed the lower 40% of leaves from each branch. I have no idea if that was the right thing to do. I have seen people cut leaves in half on newly grafted (or air layered) branches. What else do I do here? 
 
By the way, I cannot find graft joints anywhere on these two trees. I am not sure, but I think I got them from Exotica in Vista. They propagate a lot of their own plants by air layer. So, they may not be grafted. 

Grafted.jpg 

I outlined the branch structure and graft point since it is almost impossible to see in the naked picture.

Grafted-Outlined.jpg 


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Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
cyberfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
I just checked on the grafted tree. All of the leaves were crispy like potato chips. I squeezed them and they crumbled away. So, it is leafless, but the green parts of the scion are still very green and supple. I have a mulberry air layer that I am rooting out right now. At one point, it lost all of it's leaves, but then it grew new ones, and is making roots. I just hope this scion isn't too big proportionate to the little twiggy stump it's grafted onto.
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Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
pitangadiego

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
You nee to remove all leaves, cut the grafted portion to 6-12", wrap the grafted portion in parafilm, and cover with with a sun-reflective covering, otherwise the grafted portion will dry out before the graft union can heal the two pieces together.
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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitangadiego
You nee to remove all leaves, cut the grafted portion to 6-12", wrap the grafted portion in parafilm, and cover with with a sun-reflective covering, otherwise the grafted portion will dry out before the graft union can heal the two pieces together.


Geesh! By the time I cut all that off, hardly seems worth the trouble of grafting it back on. I guess I still have a lot to learn. Thanks.
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Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
elin

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
I have been to tropical fruit forums and they seem to have a knack to grow in these in pots..

Does anyone knows if it give good fruits from seed, even if not true to type?
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cyberfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
I toured Dario Grossberger's cherimoya ranch in Vista, California last year. He "bred" the Fortuna cherimoya. By bred, I mean he bought a fruit from the store and planted the seed. It turned out to be a good one on his first try. That's why he called it Fortuna: It means "luck" in Italian. Dario said that he called it that because it is rare to get good fruit from a seedling. 
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Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
cyberfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
I'm sorry to report that my graft did not take. The scion wood does not seem to be dead, but the portion of the tree below my graft has put out new side shoots. So, I sort of doubt that the scion will ever take off. At least, the tree is alive.
 
Today, I visited Exotica nursery where I bought the trees. I saw that they had more Orton and Nata Cherimoya for sale. I examined a few of them looking for graft lines. Like mine, there were none. I approached Steve, the owner, and asked him if they were grown from air layers. He told me they were grown from seed! So, I do not really have an Orton or a Nata. I have an Orton seedling and a Nata seedling! I asked him how similar the seedlings are to the parents and he said there would be "some variation", but pretty close. Dario Grossberger (see previous post above) said it is something like a one in a thousand chance of getting a really good Cherimoya from a seedling. Furthermore, my seedling may not produce any fruit for 5 to 7 years?
 
Does this seem wrong that he is selling them as Orton and Nata when they are actually seedlings? If they were labelled Orton Seedling and Nata Seedling, I would not have bought them. If I wanted a seedling, I would have just planted some seeds. I buy and eat Cherimoya from the grocery store. Each fruit is loaded with about 50 seeds and they germinate readily. I feel like I got ripped off. Does this seem wrong, or am I just being picky?
 
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pitangadiego

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
No, selling seedlings as names varieties is dishonest and fraudulent.
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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
I always try to take a problem and turn it into a solution- they are very easy to graft in April when the leaves drop.  I have scion of Honeyheart or Fino de Jete for you if you want some.  PM me in the spring.

I also have a seeding tree and the fruits are good, just not as good as my named varieties.
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cyberfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by padsfan
I always try to take a problem and turn it into a solution- they are very easy to graft in April when the leaves drop.  I have scion of Honeyheart or Fino de Jete for you if you want some.  PM me in the spring.

I also have a seeding tree and the fruits are good, just not as good as my named varieties.


Thank you for the nice offer of sending me scion wood. Fortunately, there are a lot of people growing Cherimoyas in my area. I expect to find a good selection of scion at the annual CRFG scion exchange about 6 weeks from now. I will allow some of the rootstock to grow some fruit, but will definitely graft on some varieties that are known to do well in my area. I may hit you up for scion if I miss the exchange.
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Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )
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