Register  |   | 
 
Encanto Farms Nursery > Topics > OT: Small plum that looks like a cherry.....
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #1 
.......growing on a large bush-type tree that has white blossom on it right now. If memory serves, the fruit is predominantly yellowish in colour, with an orange to red blush. Taste is amazing and sweet, and for a while we even thought it might be a cherry coz of size and appearance, but we eventually worked out it must be a plum.

So my questions:

1. If anybody knows, what's the best site for getting it ID'd? And

2. Can I take an air-layer off it?

Unfortunately for us, it's in a garden that will not be ours for much longer. It's been sold. Oh yeah, there's a house attached to this garden as well, but who cares, right?

EDIT: I'll be there tomorrow, so I'll post some pics later on if anybody wants to chance their arm.
__________________
Costas
eboone

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,100
Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Could be a bush cherry (related more closely to plums)?

I would post a question at the Garden Web Fruit and Orchard forum here: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/fruit/
__________________
Ed
Zone 6A - Southwest PA     
---------------------------
Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid),  Col Littman's Black Cross.   And any cold hardy early fig.
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Thanks Ed. I'll give it a go there as well.
__________________
Costas
Dieseler

Registered:
Posts: 8,252
Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Costa neighbor across the way has large bush that gets white blossoms and for first time gave small yellowish fruit that to us tasted like plum and that were sweet .
He ask me if i knew what it was but i do not other than possible some sort of plum as there a little smaller than the store
plums but much bigger than a cherry.
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Martin - Hmm, interesting. I'd say ours were only slightly larger than a large cherry, but could still be within the same family of fruit, if not genus. But for a plum, definitely on the small side. That's why it had us foxed for such a long time.

Can I post some pics here tomorrow evening & ask you to compare for me?
__________________
Costas
Dieseler

Registered:
Posts: 8,252
Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Sure Costas i remember what they looked like on his large bush, they ripened late in season as a note and many fell
to ground in process as there was so much of them.
You know now im curious because i forget if there was a seed inside them or not but i dont think there was.
eboone

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,100
Posted Reply with quote  #7 
There is a native American plum called a beach plum that could be considered as well.  There has been some hybridization done between a variety of native American plums and Eurasian varieties that are another possibility. 
The various native American plums, the beach plums, bush cherries and the cherry-plums are all smaller than typical prune plums, gage type plums or the Japanese (Asian) plums.
Looking forward to the pics, and a positive ID as well.
__________________
Ed
Zone 6A - Southwest PA     
---------------------------
Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid),  Col Littman's Black Cross.   And any cold hardy early fig.
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Thank you Martin. Ours had a stone that resembled a cherry stone rather than a plum stone, so you can see the reason for our confusion. I can't remember why I excluded the possibility that it might be a cherry - I think it was mainly because this is a bush, not a tree, but don't know if that's such a reliable guide for identifying the fruit.

Just to add to the confusion, I've seen cherries growing on plants that look more like bushes than trees, so I'm just one step away from going back to square one and declaring it a giant cherry!! 
__________________
Costas
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #9 
That's all very well Ed, but we live in London, and any connexion we have with the US is tenuous to say the least, so there is no direct botanical link as far as we are aware.

The garden (along with the attached house) actually belongs to the missus, and although she has relatives in NY, says she can't remember the bush's origins, other than her parents were always in the habit of throwing pips, stones, seeds etc out in the garden, and apparently they always sprouted! Not very helpful, so make of that what you will.

Glad of your interest though, and I'll be sure to post some pics for you to ponder over. If you reach any conclusions, by all means let me know.
__________________
Costas
pitangadiego

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 5,447
Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Could be a flowering plum, which sometimes has small fruit.
__________________
Encanto Farms Nursery
http://encantofarms.com
http://figs4fun.com
http://webebananas.com
"pitangadiego" everywhere
Figfinatic

Registered:
Posts: 761
Posted Reply with quote  #11 
There is the relatively new hybrid that is a cross between a plum and cherry called the "Pluerry." There are also Ranier cherries which are yellow but aren't plums.
__________________
Wish: Sbayi, passiflora incense, quadrangularis or others
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Thanks for the info fellas - all v. interesting, and who knows which of these will turn out to be the 'solution' to my query.

Anyway, got the pics, but with apologies to Martin & Ed, feel thoroughly washed out by a recent viral infection that has knocked the stuffing out of me. Too tired to upload now, so if it's all the same to you guys, will upload soon as tomorrow. Watch this space. 
__________________
Costas
Dieseler

Registered:
Posts: 8,252
Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Hey there Costas no hurry at all .
swizzle

Registered:
Posts: 137
Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Can you post a picture of the fruit, leaves and bark. When posting the pictures put in something to show the size of the fruit and leaves. This could help in identifying it.
Dieseler

Registered:
Posts: 8,252
Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Swizzle like a quarter in a shot ? ; )

Attached Images
jpeg Ronde_De_Bordeaux_Figs_-College12.jpg.jpg (72.73 KB, 38 views)
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #16 
@ Swizzle - Knew I forgot something. As I said, that infection really taken it out of me lately - just not been feeling myself, so not surprised I goofed.

Unfortunately, no fruit this time of year - I don't live in the Tropics (or S. Hemisphere)! The fruit sets in late Spring, and ripens throughout Aug and early Sept. The garden/house most likely won't be in our possession by then, so getting pics might be quite tricky, but might just be doable.

Anyroad, I'm back there tomorrow, so I'll take some more pics anyway. I'll upload what I've got so far soon today, & bear in mind when you see the flwr close-ups that flwrs are around 1.5 - 1.75" dia., but I'll do proper scale photos to confirm.

Figure I've got nowt to lose, so reckon I'll do that air-layer anyway. Also wanna take air-layers off a bay leaf tree (don't know if that would work either, but worth a try).

AND...........just to get back on topic!!! (briefly mind)...............2 massive air-layers off another Italian purple fig tree - ie Greek Style, as described in a link I'll add later for those interested in doing things on a grand scale.
__________________
Costas
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #17 
OK, now uploaded in photobucket - all 19 pics, so hope this link works, otherwise will have to go back & copy another one:

Nope, didn't work - it uploaded an old library as well, which I wanted to avoid. Will have to go back & edit. Meantime, link deleted until I sort this out.

ok, let's try this link:

http://s989.photobucket.com/user/loquat1/slideshow/
__________________
Costas
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Curious to see what html embed does:

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s989.photobucket.com/user/loquat1/embed/slideshow/"></iframe>

Hmm - nothing, I guess, unless copied/pasted into a browser. Well, previous link works anyway. When missus saw the flwr close-up, her immediate response was 'cherry blossom'!! I'm never gonna get to the bottom of this, am I?
__________________
Costas
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #19 
What about flash embed?

Nope edited out.

e-mail & IM?

http://s989.photobucket.com/user/loquat1/library/

Also works, but not much of an advance on the slideshow. OK, that's enough playing around. I think that will have to do for now. 
__________________
Costas
eboone

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,100
Posted Reply with quote  #20 

From the pics on your slideshow, and knowing these are small yellow plum-like fruit, I think they may be a mirabelle type plum.  The trees look like plum trees.  Those flowers look like typical European plum flowers, and the Mirabelles are supposed to be smaller than other plums, larger than cherries.  Seeing the fruit or stones would help, but since that is not possible for us, did they look like the Mirabelle de Metz or Mirabelle de Nancy pictures in this link to Raintree Nursery?
http://www.raintreenursery.com/Fruit_Trees/Plums/European_Plums/Mirabelle_Plums/
__________________
Ed
Zone 6A - Southwest PA     
---------------------------
Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid),  Col Littman's Black Cross.   And any cold hardy early fig.
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Hey Ed. Thanks for your continued interest.

They looked like neither of these. Firstly, there was a strong orangey-reddish blush on ours that covered up to 30%+ of the fruit. Secondly, the shape was not as 'rounded' as these. They looked more........well, 'cherry' shaped - ie 'squashed' top & bottom, with a more marked central depression.

I know what you're gonna say - they're cherries. No they ain't - they're just too big to be cherries - unless they are some variety that's completely new to me (and possibly science). I know, not very likely.
__________________
Costas
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #22 
I can see some serious gaps in my pics, aside from the scale problem. I'll take some close-ups of the leaves and bark/trunk as well tomorrow & post a few more pics later on in the week.

And if my air layer 'takes', I'll post some fruit/stone pics later in the year too. If not, I'll see if I can get permission from the new owner to harvest some of the fruit. I'm sure they won't mind, and we might even be able to get it written into the contract of sale.

In the meantime, apologies for the limited range of info they contain. Botanical studies were never my strong point!
__________________
Costas
jdsfrance

Registered:
Posts: 2,591
Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Hi,
It could be a wild plum - grow from a stone .
The leaf is not a match for a cherry tree.
__________________
------------------------
Climate from -25°C to + 35°C
Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Right, so at least we're agreed it's def. a plum. I call that progress. That only leaves variety ID, which is probably best left to the site suggested by Ed. Better still might be the UK equivalent if I can find it. Thank you jdsfrance.

@ Martin - Any comments on how this compares with your neighbor's tree?
__________________
Costas
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #25 
I think I might have found it. Sure looks a lot like this one here:

http://www.orangepippin.com/gages/early-transparent-gage

More pics here, and practically certain this is the correct ID:

http://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/plum-trees/early-transparent-gage

Mystery solved. I'll know for sure if/when we manage to get some fruit later this year, but I'm pretty confident about this ID.
__________________
Costas
swizzle

Registered:
Posts: 137
Posted Reply with quote  #26 
That plum looks delicious. That tree is beautiful. I wish I had one in my yard.
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Yes, it's quite a handsome tree, and as I said, the taste of those plums is amazing - sweet, yet complex with a slightly tart 'edge'. Shame it's not ours for much longer, so really hoping that air-layer takes. 

I'll update again when I know.
__________________
Costas
Dieseler

Registered:
Posts: 8,252
Posted Reply with quote  #28 
Costas looking at your photobucket pictures and fruit pictures in post#25.

His tree has same shape, the flowers look similar, fruit picture in post#25 looks somewhat different (color) from his as his has more
of  yellowish/orange type color i don't recall the red dotting on the top of fruit like in the picture.

But then again when tree was brought to my attention the fruit was all over the ground under tree with a few left on so they were
very ripened and i did not see them going thru the earlier ripening stage.

I recall skin was smooth waxy type and somewhat transparent .
Shape looks to be the same.

Will take picture and post in this thread of his tree when time comes and also picture of its fruit later this season.
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #29 
They might be related, but I'd be very surprised if they were the same variety - a direct connexion with a tree growing in the US would be quite a coincidence.

Shame he allows so much of the fruit go to waste. Does he not like the taste? Ours is great.
__________________
Costas
Dieseler

Registered:
Posts: 8,252
Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Your right about that i doubt there the same at all.
He is from Pakistan traveling back and forth lived in Canada for number of years.
Just never asked him what he used to plant the bush - seed or plant or what.

In our area we all had homes built around same time and many of us original owners still reside here
planting much of everything ourselves .

Glad i refused the builders ash trees 24 years back and planted different types as the town had come and took them all out last fall cause of the ash borer infestation.

Once weather settles down we all will be out an about and talking soon i'll ask him.
Had a lot of snow melt today !
cis4elk

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,718
Posted Reply with quote  #31 
I don't know, looking at your pictures, I'm not sure you can tell. If I had to choose a side I would say cherry, and that would put it into something like a Rainier category. If you say the pit looks like a cherry...then I think it's a cherry. Also, the bark at the base has the appearance of a typical cherry tree, smooth and speckled. Also, if you look at the growth habit of limbs, they grow vertically away from the main trunk; typical of many cherry varieties. Of course if one could see the grown leaves and ripe fruit and pit..that would make this easier. You could always try grafting it.
 Maybe this will help. Can you remember if the skin of the fruit had a  bloom on it, or was it shiny smooth? Bloom=plum & smooth/shiny=cherry.

I had a large old plumb tree with small fruit similar to what you described at my old house, the fruit was so-so. But every spring for about 2 weeks it was loaded with tiny white flowers that smelled really very pleasant and not overpowering like some flowering trees can be.
__________________
Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6
Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves.  :)
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #32 
UPDATE - So here's the ripe fruit guys, & I'm still satisfied that it's a plum - not a cherry. Sorry Calvin. I'm also confident with my ID - this is almost certainly an early transparent gage. The reddish blush is a lot more pronounced than I remember, which probably contributed to the ID confusion.

Taste is definitely plum-like rather than cherry-like, so wonder how I ever confused it with a cherry. Guess I'm too conditioned to expect plums to be bigger.

Gage 042.JPG 

Gage 043.JPG 

Gage 044.JPG 

Gage 046.JPG 

Gage 047.JPG 

Gage 048.JPG 

Gage 049.JPG 

Gage 050.JPG 

Gage 051.JPG 





__________________
Costas
Figfinatic

Registered:
Posts: 761
Posted Reply with quote  #33 
Those are beautiful. Rain tree nursery sells something like a plum that looks like a cherry. Check out their catalog. How good do they taste?
__________________
Wish: Sbayi, passiflora incense, quadrangularis or others
cis4elk

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,718
Posted Reply with quote  #34 
It's a chum!

That is definitely not what I had in my yard. Never seen one like that before. Thanks for the follow-up pictures.
__________________
Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6
Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves.  :)
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #35 
@ FF -
Quote:
 How good do they taste? 


Quote:
 Taste is amazing and sweet, and for a while we even thought it might be a cherry coz of size and appearance, but we eventually worked out it must be a plum.
__________________
Costas
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #36 
BTW, it's a negatory on the air-layering. Tried & failed. Now wondering if I should try growing from seed. Certainly got enough of them, but some fruit trees have a reputation for being sterile when grown from seed. Makes you wonder how they ever made it. 
__________________
Costas
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #37 
@ Calvin
Quote:
Thanks for the follow-up pictures. 


They were taken in semi-shade in our kitchen, & wonder if there's too much shadow in there for members. Maybe not so much as to spoil the info they convey, but now considering taking future pics in direct sunlight outside in the garden.

I mention this only coz I still have a fig that remains unidentified (the subject of another thread), which I've nicknamed TbF (Tasty but Fussy). Fussy coz it needs an exceptional UK summer to deliver more than a handful of the goods.

So wondering if pics taken outside might improve chances of an ID this year? Any thoughts welcomed.
__________________
Costas
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #38 
@ me - 

Quote:
 this is almost certainly an early transparent gage


Still can't see thru them tho.
__________________
Costas
Bass

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,428
Posted Reply with quote  #39 
This looks like Guthrie plum Prunus Angustifolia, which is a wild plum in North America.
__________________
Pennsylvania http://www.treesofjoy.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Trees-of-Joy/110193909021138
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #40 

@ Bass

Quote:
This looks like Guthrie plum Prunus Angustifolia, which is a wild plum in North America. 


Certainly look similar, but I don't think this is an exact match. The colors are slightly different in both blush & non-blush parts. This, on the other hand, is an exact match with what I see 'in the flesh':

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=early+transparent+gage&espv=2&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=fmjGU6KGL6Op7Aa-oIHoDQ&ved=0CCkQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=643

Also, this is the UK, don't forget. How likely is it that a N. American wild plum has found its way over here? Unless we're simply talking different names for the same variety - not unknown in the fruit tree world of course.
__________________
Costas
eboone

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,100
Posted Reply with quote  #41 
I am not an expert on Gage plums, but that definitely looks a little small to me compared to my Green Gage plum.  My guess is that it is not a named variety but something that grew from a plum seed, possibly a Gage type or a Mirabelle type as one or both of the parents.  And I would bet that those seeds would grow something, just not sure if it would be like the parent.

Wish we could try it, looks great!
__________________
Ed
Zone 6A - Southwest PA     
---------------------------
Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid),  Col Littman's Black Cross.   And any cold hardy early fig.
loquat1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 585
Posted Reply with quote  #42 
Hey Ed - Definitely not a Green Gage. Very familiar with that variety - used to eat them a lot in my youth, & an excellent plum. No, this is a different variety, hence the preceding qualifiers 'Early Transparent'. They might be related, but certainly not the same variety, and yes, these are a lot smaller. As the thread title suggests, these are approx. cherry size on the average.

I think the ID above is sound, but funny you should mention the seed theory. My mother-in-law was in the habit of throwing seeds out in the garden, & my wife thinks this plum tree was one of several consequences. Other consequences include several loquat trees, and a pear and apple tree.

You never know, but surprised at your suggestion that the seeds are not necessarily true genetic representatives of the parent tree. That also flies in the face of common sense and basic biological principles, but does tempt me to have a go & see what develops. 
__________________
Costas
cis4elk

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,718
Posted Reply with quote  #43 
If you don't have a stone fruit to graft it to, you could always buy a small plum tree and graft this variety to it. Or maybe order a good rootstock for grafting.
__________________
Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6
Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves.  :)
eboone

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,100
Posted Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by loquat1

You never know, but surprised at your suggestion that the seeds are not necessarily true genetic representatives of the parent tree. That also flies in the face of common sense and basic biological principles, but does tempt me to have a go & see what develops. 


Most times seeds of known apple, pear, cherry, plum, peach, fig or other common fruit cultivars, while still growing out as the same species, do not look exactly like the parent.  Even if pollinated by itself there is enough genetic reshuffling that the DNA of the offspring is different.  That is why desired cultivars are grafted (or in case of figs, grown from cuttings)
__________________
Ed
Zone 6A - Southwest PA     
---------------------------
Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid),  Col Littman's Black Cross.   And any cold hardy early fig.
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply