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Encanto Farms Nursery > Topics > --- PIX: Black Prince (capri?)
 
 


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greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
I had found a black eatable caprifig some time ago (sorry, do not have the fig photos). Took some cuttings and rooted them. Here is one that started showing a figlet!

The figs are the size and color of the VdB but it is a caprifig. It have a soft and think skin that is not dry and has some taste. I will post a photo of this one when it is mature.
I think it is very good specimen for breeding.

I have never seen any capris like this, I think it is very unique.
I named it the Black Prince!

blackCapri.JPG 



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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
You're right, it should be great for breeding as long as it's persistent.  If you block the ostiole on 1 fig and it doesn't drop off early then it should be persistent.
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greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Cool! I will try that.
What is the best way to block the ostiole?
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greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Any capri experts here?
Can it be an F. Palmata?
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cis4elk

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Eat A LOT of cheese!
Oh, oops my bad, you said ostiole not...


Nice find.  :)
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Igor, that's a beautiful specimen!
Leaves (being Unilobe) remind me of few Hybrids I have seen in private collections here in LA.
Usually (from what I have seen) the baby figs come out furry then they lose the fur....would be interesting to see a follow up on this variety.
greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Yeap! 
Just wait a few weeks and I will post an update :)
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lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Hi Igor,

That's a nice and robust young tree. I cannot tell what species exactly it is but after looking at my hybrid DFIC0023 (Carica x Palmata) , it could well be a Palmata.

Why do you say it's a Caprifig ?
When did you see the figs ? on last year's wood ? wasps ?

Used Hydrofilm to close holes on Smyrna after doing manual pollination and it works.

see pictures of DFIC0023 leaves

Francisco

P1050598.JPG  P1050601.JPG
greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Francisco,

Thank you for your input and a nice photo.
Do you have a photo of the figs inside by any chance?
The ones from the mother tree of my fig look like male Caprifigs, empty inside, but with a thick edible skin. They dry on the tree in the same way as the capris.

It may not be a Caprifig, as you say, and the lack of my experience with this subject is the one to blame.
Right now the mother tree is figless (same as the nearby Caprifigs). I hope my tiny figs will grow happily and shad some light on what I actually have.

The mother tree is not a seedling for sure, it was carefully planted next to the owner’s house. It could be a DFIC0023 (Carica x Palmata) just as well but I cannot tell at this time.
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lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Igor,

No, unfortunately have no pictures yet..
But these figs apparently  behave as Smyrna as per past discussions on the forum.
However, in my area,  they may require some precise timing for effective caprification and/or a particular Caprifig variety. I am still through experimentation and this comment results from the fact that ALL my Smyrnas are now perfectly pollinated, same for San Pedro main and a selection of Common figs but this DFIC023 does not seem to be very happy yet !
May be in another couple of weeks I may have a better assessment.

Francisco
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Igor, if this a Smyrna type , that would explain the emptiness of the fig (because of non-polination). But not falling and drying on the tree...still unexplainable.
rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenfig
Cool! I will try that. What is the best way to block the ostiole?


I can't tell you best but any waterproof glue, caulk or tape will work but may need to be reapplied as the fig grows.  An organza bag will work if the neck is sealed off without gaps.
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
I saw medical paper tape used , that's why I used it to keep the ostioles blocked so that the wasps wouldn't escape Bob. It works without any impact to the fig and it's breathable.
greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
The plant in the post #1 has developed a fig!
I collected it today knowing that it would be a bit too early (by 1-2 days) to get a sneak peak inside when it is dry. The skin is soft and slightly sweet already.
As I remember, the fully ripe figs were soft with juicy skin.

So, yes, it looks like a Caprifig, right?

It is a beautiful plant in a 1 gal pot.

blackPrince_3.JPG 

Attached Images
jpeg blackPrince_2.JPG (131.54 KB, 57 views)
jpeg blackPrince_4.JPG (143.29 KB, 65 views)
jpeg blackPrince_5.JPG (255.46 KB, 58 views)
jpeg blackPrince_6.JPG (171.49 KB, 40 views)
jpeg blackPrince_7.JPG (154.07 KB, 38 views)


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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Igor,
Diffinitely looks like a Capri. I even see a male red-head wasp in the 2nd pic.
Good stuff! :)
greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Thanks!
Now I need to figure out how to take care of it. The mother tree is not a huge tree so this one might be a slow growing too.
It was started last fall and was a slow rooter, all my other cuttings are about 2-4 times larger already.
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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
That looks really interesting, if it is a palmata hybrid it would be a good one to use for a breeding program, since it may pass on FMV resistance. 

@greenfig:  Do you have any cuttings available of that variety?  I was thinking of doing a small fig breeding program here using Fico Preto as the mother and maybe your Black Prince can be the father. :)  

Thanks 
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greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
I may have in December , pm me then
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AltadenaMara

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
@Figgysid1 and Igor:
Igor, if that's the same Black Caprifig that you gave me cuttings of last winter, I have several extra rooted plants I could send out to someone. Two are already in large pots. I don't have room for all of them and would like the extras to go to a good home. Isn't it the one with a bark that has a reddish tint to it and the young petioles have a pink color that turns green over time. Most of the leaves are singles with perhaps one leaf with three lobes? Two are still in their rooting cups with one labeled "Black Caprifig" from Igor. I can post pictures later today. PM me if you're interested. 
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greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Thank you, Mara, for letting us know!
I am glad they rooted for you, I guess a fresh cutting roots better !

Those I gave you did not come from the one mentioned in this thread. They look and behave like a nice common caprifig and will satisfy any wasp and a person :)
The Black Prince is a bit different, it is almost in between a common fig and a Capri , the figs have a taste and look like a hybrid, still good for the wasp but maybe suitable for an experimental breeding too.

Let Figgysid1 decide what he wants. Any one of those three would be a good choice.
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AltadenaMara

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Igor, thanks again for the cuttings. It's nice to know they're a good common caprifig and will make the wasps happy, although I've had no problem with pollination so far. Baby fig trees are coming up like weeds this year all over the yard. 
Your Black Prince seems like a very special fig tree. Best of luck with it.
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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
I think I can only get cuttings shipped. To get a potted plant it has to be inspected and maybe even grown in a soiless medium like coco coir.

I read a few topics about edible capri figs being the best to use in a breeding program. This black prince variety seems to be exactly what I'm looking for, a palmata hybrid edible capri fig.

From previous plant breeding programs I have done with other friut trees the chances of getting a superior seedling is about 1/5,000. With figs that may be far less since you might get 25% males, 25% San Pedro, 25% Smyrna type and 25% common. So the odds of getting a superior common fig seedling might be only 1/20,000.

But I could also get some good edible Capri figs and some good San Pedro types.

I will contact you in December.

Thanks





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greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Sure, no problem.
The only thing I do not know is if it is persistent or not.
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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Ok I will definitely do a lot if research on what I need. I read without a persistent Capri they could come out all Smyrna and San Pedro and capri with no common, but not sure. Might be worth trying even if it's not persistent and I could select my own persistent capri from the seedings.



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hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
It is confusing Sid! My guess is edible caprifigs are considered to be males in the West and females in the East. The Japanese patent for breeding females says the (female) pollen parent they used normally produces a few stamens in the breba crop. I think they classified it as a female based on the edible (long-styled) female flowers, while in the US it would have been classified as a capri because it has stamens in the breba and also designated as edible because it produces long styled long-styled female flowers. Maybe some females can produce stamens with GA3??? it didn't work for me though.

Persistence is a dominant trait but lethal to the seed when passed from the mother, so a male that is Pp (common or San Pedro) crossed with a female that is also Pp results in 50% Pp and 50% pp (Smyrna). When a Smyrna capri pp is crossed with a common female Pp all of the seedlings will be pp, because the ones that got the persistence gene from the mother die. So starting with a persistent capri is crucial. 
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Figgysid1

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
@hoosierbanana: Thanks for the clarification. I think I got it.. A persistent Capri+common fig will produce offspring that are 50% common and 50% San Pedro.
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CharlesC

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
There are papers online that discuss the need for persistent capri to make persistent new wood females (main crop). Persistence on old wood (breba crop), however, isn't mentioned much, if at all.  I don't think breba persistence is well understood yet.  Not from what I've read anyway.  Just from my limited observation, breba and main persistence seem to operate independently of each other, suggesting different genes controlling this.  I'm not sure how breba persistence is passed on.

Just a thought, but you could try crossing Desert King, which is known for having a great breba crop, with a persistent capri to maybe get something that makes two full crops.  It's worth a try anyway.  I have 11 months of heat here, so I know that cross is in my future plans.  Good luck.
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greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
It would be nice to do all those tests outside California, where the wasp does not live and the outcome is more predictable.
I would start with a known persistence Capri for sure.
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