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BLB

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Posted Reply with quote  #101 

Certainly gives food for thought about the effectiveness of coir. I suppose like many other changes in long established products of various kinds the real decision is economic.
lukeott

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Posted Reply with quote  #102 
Hello Jason, I've found a location that sells mushroom compost in a bale form. Wondering if you would take a look see and tell me what you think. I am going to use it with adding a few other ingredients. Now this isn't for someone that only grows a couple fig trees because it comes in a 3000lb bale. I know..I know  wholly crap..thats a lot but a have a lot of figs plus a large garden and you can also put it on your lawn( in my case weeds). The place is located in Landenberg,Pa and they will ship. I would put the site here but I don't know how. The name of the company is Select Soils and they have a lot of info about there product and it sounds great. Put a call in and waiting for a call back for pricing. They also say it can be stored for 2 years.


luke
7deuce

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Posted Reply with quote  #103 

Hi Luke

Composts are great for in ground plants but i am trying to keep my mix draining fast and from what I understand composts will hold tons of moisture. I could be wrong because my compost usage is limited. My mix doesn't even use much Promix anymore 20% or less. Although it is still my goto rooting agent.
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Jason V
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newnandawg

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Posted Reply with quote  #104 
I have heard several people mention pine bark fines in discussion of soil mixes. Is fines the same size/consistency as soil conditioner or is it a mixture of different sizes? Have been unable to locate.
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Posted Reply with quote  #105 
Anyone
71GTO

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Posted Reply with quote  #106 
I have read online that they are generally the same thing. If you have an agway near you thier pine bark mulch in the blue bags is pine bark fines.
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go4broek

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Posted Reply with quote  #107 
Jason,

Now that the growing season is coming to an end, do we have any measured results for this experiment to date?
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Ruben
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7deuce

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Posted Reply with quote  #108 
I really like pine bark fines, perlite, and promix for rooted cuttings. It is much harder to overwater and kill the youngsters plus the growth was very strong. I will comment on the older trees when they go dormant and I can look at the root mass.
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go4broek

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Posted Reply with quote  #109 
What about growth rates and vigor?
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DWD2

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Posted Reply with quote  #110 
Mike - The pine bark fines mentions you have noted are directed towards the goal of getting pine bark pieces that are in the optimal size range for soilless growing mixes. There is a lot of great technical information out there that you might find helpful to read through. The North Carolina State University Department of Horticulture has a lot of excellent information. Here is a link to a general review on container media that I have found helpful:

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/nursery/cultural/cultural_docs/substrates/container-soiless-media.pdf
There are a lot of publications in the scientific literature that explain a lot of the details and complexities of the different materials that are used in various soilless media. A couple of references that provide more depth are:
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/nursery/research/reference-publications/BilderbackLorscheider-double-proc-pb-compost.pdf
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/43/2/505.full.pdf+html
Please note that pine bark & fir bark are pretty similar components. Out West fir bark is much more available than pine bark.

A lot of folks on this and other forums want an easy formula for a media in which to grow their fig trees or other plants. There are certainly a number of recipes out there. The good news is you do not have to exactly replicate the components and mix to get good growth. I chose to understand the underlying principles that give you a good soilless growth media before picking my components. There are simple and not-so-simple tests you can perform on your media prior to putting your plant in it that allow you to catch problems. There is a widely accepted set of standards for soilless media that help insurance success. Components vary a LOT. Peat moss varies by source. Bark products vary not just by size but also by source and even the time of the year the pb was harvested. In general, my understanding from my reading of the horticultural literature is that the size and age of the pine bark are the two largest determinants of how it will function in your mix. Both of which are addressed in the first link above.

I had largely forgotten about this string after I got distracted by a family emergency and work last May. It seems a lot was added after I quit looking that might benefit from response. Odd that you would pick this string to ask your question.

Good luck with your trees!
newnandawg

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Posted Reply with quote  #111 
@DWD2 thanks for your response and links. I will certainly read up on them.
Where are you located?

@Jason V thanks to you also. If soil conditioner (which is ground up composted pine bark in my bag) is the same as pine bark fines that is exactly what I just used to up pot all my figs. I was really looking for a definition of pine bark fines as far as size of particles.
Hortstu

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Posted Reply with quote  #112 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapla
I often have people say, "I can only water weekly but I want to use the gritty mix. How can I adapt it to work for me. The answer is, "You can't." The gritty mix, and to some degree, the 5:1:1 mix are made with plant health in mind - not grower convenience.


Excuse this fig newb's (not a gardening newb) 2cents. If one invested the time and expense in perfecting and automating a drip system,couldn't you have the best of both worlds?
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Mike
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Posted Reply with quote  #113 
newnandawg - Northern California on the peninsula south of San Francisco.

Hortstu - Certainly a drip irrigation system would make life easier if you are growing more than a few trees. Those 2 mixes, when used correctly, will certainly work well. There are big, commercial operations that grow fruits & vegetables in straight perlite. Pure perlite requires a fair bit of infrastructure, but it can be done & done well. So, you can make a lot of things work well with enough effort. As much as everyone is looking for a perfect media recipe, I do not believe one exists. After a LOT of research and a modest trial comparison to the 5-1-1 mix and a couple of others, I chose a different mix. As is pointed out in the quote above, both those mixes require more frequent watering than I care to do. A drip irrigation system certainly makes life somewhat easier. The danger of putting a drip system on a timer is timer failures. To be clear, I use a drip system for my plants. I have never tried a timer. I talked to a bunch of people who have used them and every single one of them said not to use a timer. That advice is always followed by their personal "timer failed" horrible, disaster story. That said, I am betting someone out there has a timer that has gone 10 years without a hitch. The point is that the type of automated system most folks on this forum might afford is very likely to have a very limited life and fail right when you are depending on it most. The subject of water movement & utilization in potting medias is actually pretty complex technically. In my opinion, the best, current scientific text on growing in soilless media is this text:
http://www.amazon.com/Soilless-Culture-Practice-Michael-Raviv/dp/0444529756/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1350623483&sr=1-2&keywords=soilless+media
Be forewarned that this book is HIGHLY technical. Lots of math. Probably a third of it is devoted to water. Happily, there are mix components you can try out that retain water better than the mixes you mention and have the physical attributes of a good soilless media. If your media has adequate air space, total porosity, container capacity, available water, unavailable water, bulk density, CEC and pH, you will have healthy plants given proper nutrition and water. I'd spend my money on a good pH/Electrical Conductivity meter before a timer, drip irrigation system.

Good luck with your trees!
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Posted Reply with quote  #114 
DWD2 thanks for the info and links. I had a sister that lived in San Jose and spent a lot of time out there.
dkirtexas

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Posted Reply with quote  #115 
This is a great thread in spite of the bad side!  I'm not sure why the disagreement deteriorated to the unnecessary.  This is a small pond without the need for a "big frog", I would urge all to avoid this type of discussion (the unnecessary) in the future, it can only cause harm.

If you feel the need to get on a stump, start a blog!
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Thx, glad to be here

Danny K "EL CAZADOR DE HIGO"
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Posted Reply with quote  #116 
Danny, Not quite sure what your saying.



luke
dkirtexas

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Posted Reply with quote  #117 
The information was great one of the best threads, even with the dissenting opinions, which is all part of discussions.  It just seemed to get too tense.  I just think the discussion took a bad turn without reason.
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Thx, glad to be here

Danny K "EL CAZADOR DE HIGO"
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Wish list: anything anyone wants me to have. LSU RED.  Any LSU fig.
Hortstu

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Posted Reply with quote  #118 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWD2
I'd spend my money on a good pH/Electrical Conductivity meter before a timer, drip irrigation system.<br /><br />Good luck with your trees!


DWD2, thanks for the well wishes. Lucky for me I have a good ph/ec meter. I grew poinsettias+ for a greenhouse operation once upon a time.

Id hate to detour this great thread w/ off topic question but seems appropriate here. In the past, when growing anything in containers w/ questionable soils/mixes, I've compensated by measuring pH ppm of the runoff and then adjusted the water appropriately. What is the desired pH range of runoff water from a fig?
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Mike
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DWD2

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Posted Reply with quote  #119 
Hortstu - The first thing I concentrate on is getting the pH of my growing media in the optimum pH range. There are not a lot of publications out there with good science examining fig nutrition and pH. The work on pH that I can find was done in the 1950s. That said, all three of these publications put the optimal pH range as 6.0 to 6.5. 
http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1145/ANR-1145.pdf
http://johnstonnc.com/mainpage.cfm?category_level_id=299&content_id=930
http://www.lsuagcenter.com/NR/rdonlyres/796F5E13-A2A9-4C61-B3AD-721E9505087A/49460/HorticultureHintsFall2008HIGHRES.pdf
Since these are all from major agricultural university cooperative extensions, I choose to follow their advice. Fortunately, there seems to be agreement from these and other university sources that figs will tolerate a fairly wide range of pH. What they typically say is pH 5.0 to 8.0. But the optimum is pH 6.0 to 6.5. As I understand your question about water, you are saying you are using pH & ppm to calculate the alkalinity of your water and then doing an adjustment to get it in the optimum pH 6.0 to 6.5 range. The one problem there is if the ppm you calculate from your EC reading is not due largely to bicarbonate in your water. Your water can have a high pH (be alkaline) but not have high enough ionic strength (low alkalinity) to affect the buffering, and therefore pH, of the growing media. On a more practical level, you can just monitor your pH using the Flow Thru method. If your pH starts drifting up fairly quickly, then you want to start adjusting the pH of your water supply or add a media acidifier, like soil sulfur, to compensate for the alkalinity of your water. Of course, that requires another titration. If the pH stays pretty constant over time, you can happily do nothing. I hope this makes sense & helps!
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Posted Reply with quote  #120 
People have been growing fig trees for (i really don't know) a gazillion years. I know the history and the science guys will want to pin point it, like it really matters. I also know that the history and the science guys get it wrong, but will throw many words to belittle you to prove they are smart. I say this, history guys have been fighting wars for as long as time, and science guys have created their weapons.
Jason started a experiment a few months ago, but I kinda forgot because all the bs in the middle. How's your method working for you. Would really like to know. I will say I don't like it, but will not argue if it works for you. Just never know, you could change my mind. My mind is open to change, if presented properly.

If you ask any of the old timers, they will tell you to throw some kind of animal crap and lime on them, that's it. I don't have the answer why, but all their fig trees are still alive. No meters or thing for measurements. Fig trees are very easy to work with and can grow well in many conditions. You can do many things wrong and it will still grow good for you. I'm not saying science can't help, just saying don't over complicate things. Growing fig trees is not rocket science.

So Dr. V  your answer please. I am waiting for a update. And I'll see you probably on wed.

luke

PS: i ducking under the computer screen, waiting for arrows and weapons of mass destruction.
Hortstu

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Posted Reply with quote  #121 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWD2
Hortstu - As I understand your question about water, you are saying you are using pH & ppm to calculate the alkalinity of your water and then doing an adjustment to get it in the optimum pH 6.0 to 6.5 range.


Not sure if you're following me. I check the ph/ppm of water pre watering. Filtered so it's usually low, then I repeat with some of the collected runoff. That gives me an idea of what's going on in the medium.

Quote:
The one problem there is if the ppm you calculate from your EC reading is not due largely to bicarbonate in your water.


Well if the water is filtered, low ppm, near 7pH, wouldn't you say I'm alright?

Quote:
Your water can have a high pH (be alkaline) but not have high enough ionic strength (low alkalinity) to affect the buffering, and therefore pH, of the growing media.


Are you saying I need water with a pH higher/lower than desired soil pH to make an adjustment? Ive always operated w/that in mind.

I think we're on same page but not sure.

Luke,
Not disagreeing w/anything you're saying. I do like to over think things sometimes but I find the exercise enjoyable.
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DWD2

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Posted Reply with quote  #122 
Luke - No arrows or WMD from me. Fig trees are pretty forgiving in general and I agree with you that growing them is not rocket science, particularly in the ground. Growing them in containers can be a bit more of a challenge but very straight-forward approaches work. It strikes me that it is similar to growing cuttings. Some folks are happy to stick cuttings into potting mix and get some trees. Other folks are striving to get 100% of their cuttings to root & give trees. Some of us spend way too much time & effort trying to perfect growing conditions. I, like Hortstu, find it fun to try and get maximum growth & productivity from my trees.

Horstu - I did misunderstand you. So sorry. Checking your water pH pre & post watering will tell you what is going on in your media, yes. If your irrigation water is near pH 7 and has low EC, you should be fine. Here are a couple of publications that explain pH & water really well.
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/floriculture/plugs/ph.pdf
http://extension.unh.edu/agric/AGGHFL/pHarticl.pdf

Good luck with your fig trees!
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Posted Reply with quote  #123 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWD2
Luke - No arrows or WMD from me. Fig trees are pretty forgiving in general and I agree with you that growing them is not rocket science, particularly in the ground. Growing them in containers can be a bit more of a challenge but very straight-forward approaches work. It strikes me that it is similar to growing cuttings. Some folks are happy to stick cuttings into potting mix and get some trees. Other folks are striving to get 100% of their cuttings to root & give trees. Some of us spend <strong>way</strong> too much time & effort trying to perfect growing conditions. I, like Hortstu, find it fun to try and get maximum growth & productivity from my trees.<br /><br />Horstu - I did misunderstand you. So sorry. Checking your water pH pre & post watering will tell you what is going on in your media, yes. If your irrigation water is near pH 7 and has low EC, you should be fine. Here are a couple of publications that explain pH & water really well.<br />http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/floriculture/plugs/ph.pdf<br />http://extension.unh.edu/agric/AGGHFL/pHarticl.pdf<br /><br />Good luck with your fig trees!


Nothing that requires an apology. Thanks for the help.
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RichinNJ

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Posted Reply with quote  #124 
Lots of good information here from DWD2.
I'm formulating my mix now for all of the up-potting I will do in the near future.
RichinNJ

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Posted Reply with quote  #125 
Right now I'm working with peat moss, composted fir bark and a few other organic and non-organic components after researching several name brand recipes like Promix, MG, Foxfarm and others
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Posted Reply with quote  #126 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichinNJ
Right now I'm working with peat moss, composted fir bark and a few other organic and non-organic components after researching several name brand recipes like Promix, MG, Foxfarm and others


Looking forward to hearing what works best for you, I'm in your region so I'd be curious about where you found the compared bark.
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #127 
Mike (Hortstu),

The 5-1-1 mix popularized by Al Tapla works extremely well. He has also posted extensively that it should be a starting point, and can be be modified for individual locations.

The modification was to add 1 part Calcined Clay to form a 5-1-1-1 mix, 5 part Pine Bark fines - 1 part Peat Moss - 1 part Perlite - 1 part Calcined Clay.

Pine Barks fines is available in the Northeast at Agway as Pine Bark Mulch.
Calcined Clay is available at Tractor Supply as Oil Absorbent.
Perlite can be replaced with Pea Gravel from Home Depot if weight is not an issue and it may help to keep some plants with large canopies upright.
FigaroNewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #128 
Mr.Pete is the calcined clay added for water retention? I've bought a product called Soil Vigor-Moisture Trap Polymers to use in an experiment next spring when I up-pot. I plan to ask opinions next spring before I use it though, someone here may think it's a mistake and I want to weigh their thoughts. If it's a bad idea, I also have the oil absorbent that Napa sells, to experiment with as well.

Regards.
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Seeking: C'hiapetta, A'driatic JH, and S'mith maybe 2 cuttings or so of each. Thank-you.
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Posted Reply with quote  #129 
Billy,

Yes, the Calcined Clay products (Oil Dry etc.) adds moisture retention, while maintaining aeration in the mix, due to particle size, but it also adds trace minerals. I've never used water retention polymers, so can't comment on them.

You should do a search on "gritty mix" or "5-1-1 mix" there has been a lot of discussions and posted results. In a topic last year, http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=6416224 several members posted their potting mix recipes.

Good  Luck,
Pete S.
Charley

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Posted Reply with quote  #130 
I would prefer Diatomaceous Earth Absorbent rather than the clay.  Light weight and inexpensive.  Should maintain form indefinetly.
Available in coarse grade from Zoro with free shipping on $25 orders.
http://www.zoro.com/g/Diatomaceous%20Earth%20Absorbent/00107339/None

I've been wondering how the chatter about a Perched Water Table meshes with the successes of SIP growing methods. 
Those rely upon somewhat heavier mixes to allow for wicking of the water.  It sure does not seem to create dead roots.
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Charley

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Posted Reply with quote  #131 
I found this a very informative thread with lots of good information.

There was this post:
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1273465832&postcount=82

Then there was this one:
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1284064706&postcount=125

And then followed by this one:
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1284070038&postcount=131

Were those supposed to add to the information stream concerning potting mix?
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eboone

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Posted Reply with quote  #132 
RE: 5-1-1-1 Mix
Next year I need to buy about 20 bags of the Agway Pine Bark Mulch when they have it in the spring.  I went thru the 5 bags I bought (well, 3.5 of them, my wife dumped the rest over one of her flower beds) very quickly, and the local Agways told me 6 weeks ago that they will not get more in till next year.  I have tried a few other brands which are either mostly very fine particles or very large particles and all have lots of wood mixed in.

This brand was the next best I could find, at a local K-Mart last month, but again had fair amount of wood particles compared to Agway's, and they only had 2 bags remaining when I bought them:

pine bark mulch.JPG 

Anyone else have a brand or source for decent pine bark fines this time of year?  I still have some up-potting to do.

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Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid),  Col Littman's Black Cross.   And any cold hardy early fig.
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Posted Reply with quote  #133 
I have a bag of pine bark mulch from HD. I was considering adding 40-0-0 to it as a nitrogen source and composting it for 8 weeks in the bag before combining it to the mix. Im not sure it that would be of much benefit.
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Posted Reply with quote  #134 
Down in this link there is a "recipe" for Blue Fox Farms and others.

http://www.extension.org/pages/20982/organic-potting-mix-basics#.U_3rjcVdVYB
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #135 
Rich (RichNJ),

What is your current potting mix or mix recipe and how long have you been using it?
How successful has it been?
Thanks.
WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #136 
I have found the clay additive to be very helpful, it has given me an extra day between waterings, every other day instead of every day in the hot Florida sun.
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Posted Reply with quote  #137 
Having read through most of this thread, I would say that it is relatively easy to find research backing any viewpoint you have: everyone is right in some regard. I often found when I was college for horticulture that papers saying one thing is better than another do not mean much. Many times the difference is barely statistically significant (3% difference). Every researcher has pet projects and beliefs that will be given greater coverage; scientists are not infallible (but 99% mean well) and plants don't work in closed systems.

I recall once a professor told me of a study being done with hormones and suddenly one block of plants started exhibiting bizarre symptoms. They thought they had made a breakthrough. Turned out someone was smoking and infected the plants with Tobacco Mosaic Virus from their cigarettes.



Don't overthink your mix, it's easy to make yourself crazy. Find something that works well and stick with it. We're just hobbyists.

How about them figs?
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Posted Reply with quote  #138 
My suggestion was that the Diatomaceous Earth Absorbent could be an improvement on Turf-ace.  Both can be positive improvements to a mix, IMHO.
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Posted Reply with quote  #139 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascpete
Rich (RichNJ),

What is your current potting mix or mix recipe and how long have you been using it?
How successful has it been?
Thanks.


Pete,
MG with 10-20% perlite.
I have more than 30 figs growing in it that I started from cuttings in the winter of 2013 (this past winter).
50% or maybe more are greater than 4 feet tall and several have fruit.
RichinNJ

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Posted Reply with quote  #140 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ampersand
Having read through most of this thread, I would say that it is relatively easy to find research backing any viewpoint you have: everyone is right in some regard. I often found when I was college for horticulture that papers saying one thing is better than another do not mean much. Many times the difference is barely statistically significant (3% difference). Every researcher has pet projects and beliefs that will be given greater coverage; scientists are not infallible (but 99% mean well) and plants don't work in closed systems.

I recall once a professor told me of a study being done with hormones and suddenly one block of plants started exhibiting bizarre symptoms. They thought they had made a breakthrough. Turned out someone was smoking and infected the plants with Tobacco Mosaic Virus from their cigarettes.



Don't overthink your mix, it's easy to make yourself crazy. Find something that works well and stick with it. We're just hobbyists.

How about them figs?


I think Ill need a cubic yard of soil less potting mix this spring. (27 cubic feet)
If I buy BX its's $7-8/cf and my MG based mix is $5.8/cf
If I make my own its $1.8-2.5 cf
but they are all made from the same ingredients
Ampersand

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Posted Reply with quote  #141 
Rich (and everyone else) - MG varies their blend based on availability in various regions of the US. I'm sure it's not a significant difference, but a difference nonetheless. So different results are probable in different places.  I've found enough junk/trash in MG mixes that I avoid it unless it's free.

See here: http://answers.scotts.com/answers/4814-en_us/product/prod70262/miracle-gro-miracle-gro-moisture-control-potting-mix-questions-answers/questions.htm. First question.
RichinNJ

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Posted Reply with quote  #142 
I don't use the MG  Moisture Control variety.
With my MG based mix this year I think I have had great results (see post above)
RichinNJ

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Posted Reply with quote  #143 
MG "Recipe" is here..

http://www.gardenguides.com/99097-miracle-gro-potting-mix-ingredients.html
Ampersand

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Posted Reply with quote  #144 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichinNJ
I don't use the MG  Moisture Control variety.
With my MG based mix this year I think I have had great results (see post above)


That goes for all MG products, there are plants all over country that use whatever is available. Just letting people know it isn't a consistant product.

Glad it works for you though, keep it simple.
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Posted Reply with quote  #145 
FYI, I have deleted a few posts that were abusive of other members. It is my hope that that is sufficient.
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #146 
Rich,
Thanks for your reply.
From your answer, I guess that you do not have any trees growing in an experimental or custom mix.


Charlie,
The Calcine Diatomaceous Earth has been discussed in the past and are in the archived topics of "Gritty Mix" or "5-1-1 Mix" or posts by AL Tapla at Gardenweb. The Napa Auto Parts Floor Dry is 100% Calcine DE and has been used by several members.
<This topic about SIPs may provide some answers / clarification about perched water table, http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=6768010 >


Kelby,
Although I currently use the 5-1-1-1 mix for growing potted fig trees, I've tried many other mixes and recipes, they all work, but for fastest uninterrupted healthy growth nothing has beaten the 5-1-1-1.

I posted the following info in the previously referenced topic on potting mix recipes,
Quote:
As a note most of the recommended commercial potting mixes are usually 85% peat moss, 15% perlite, Dolemite Limestone, Wetting agent and fertilizer (if included). The Pro-Mix HP (High Porosity) is 65-75% Peat. Fafard 52 is 60% Pine bark and 30% peat.
Note the attached manufacturer data sheets, Fafard does not publish their ingredient ratios.

For comparison:
Fertilome UPM: 85% - 15% (peat - perlite).
Pro-Mix BX:       85% - 15% (peat - perlite).
Pro-Mix HP:      75% - 25% (peat - perlite).
Fafard52:         60% - 30% - 10% (pinebark - peat - perlite)
5-1-1:              71.4% - 14.3% - 14.3% (pine bark - peat - perlite).
5-1-1-1:           62.5% - 12.5% - 12.5% - -12.5% (pine bark - peat - perlite - Oil Absorbent)

BTW, contrary to popular belief all Peat Mosses are not the same, some brands have long fibers and larger particles while others are very fine particles almost dust. The Canadian brands are usually the coarser grade Peat Moss, which makes a better mix.

<edit>
needaclone

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Posted Reply with quote  #147 
Rich,
  Just a heads up that it has been my experience this year that the Home Depot "Pine Bark Mulch" is different than the Pine Bark Mulch they've had in the past.  It used to be very nicely chopped and composted pine bark...this year it seems to have a very high pine wood content with very little Pine Bark.  ...At least that's the way it has been all through the spring and summer.  (There seems to have been a pine bark shortage of sorts!!!)  I checked HD again about 2-3 weeks ago and it still looked like the same stuff.  Maybe, hopefully, other stores are starting to get the good stuff back in stock.
Cheers,
Jim
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FigaroNewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #148 
Thank-you Mr. Pete. I use the 5-1-1 mix already. I am a first season fig/container grower, and am trying to improve upon the 5-1-1 for my needs, very much as you have with the 5-1-1-1. I'm using the repti-bark stuff and I think it is a bit too 'green' as compared to the mulch from the garden centers. I'm hoping as it ages and breaks down I'll feel better about it. Maybe it's all in my head, I dunno.

Regards,
billy
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RichinNJ

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Posted Reply with quote  #149 
One thing I'll need to do is wet the peat moss before I create a mix. A person I know with years of experience with the stuff said you can cut a hole in the top of the bag and keep adding water and waiting until the mix is moist. This can take a few days.
RichinNJ

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Posted Reply with quote  #150 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascpete
Rich,
Thanks for your reply.
From your answer, I guess that you do not have any trees growing in an experimental or custom mix.


Charlie,
The Calcine Diatomaceous Earth has been discussed in the past and are in the archived topics of "Gritty Mix" or "5-1-1 Mix" or posts by AL Tapla at Gardenweb. The Napa Auto Parts Floor Dry is 100% Calcine DE and has been used by several members.


Kelby,
Although I currently use the 5-1-1-1 mix for growing potted fig trees, I've tried many other mixes and recipes, they all work, but for fastest uninterrupted healthy growth nothing has beaten the 5-1-1-1.

I posted the following info in the previously referenced topic on potting mix recipes,
Quote:
As a note most of the recommended commercial potting mixes are usually 85% peat moss, 15% perlite, Dolemite Limestone, Wetting agent and fertilizer (if included). The Pro-Mix HP (High Porosity) is 65-75% Peat. Fafard 52 is 60% Pine bark and 30% peat.
Note the attached manufacturer data sheets, Fafard does not publish their ingredient ratios.

For comparison:
Fertilome UPM: 85% - 15% (peat - perlite).
Pro-Mix BX:       85% - 15% (peat - perlite).
Pro-Mix HP:      75% - 25% (peat - perlite).
Fafard52:         60% - 30% - 10% (pinebark - peat - perlite)
5-1-1:              71.4% - 14.3% - 14.3% (pine bark - peat - perlite).
5-1-1-1:           62.5% - 12.5% - 12.5% - -12.5% (pine bark - peat - perlite - Oil Absorbent)

BTW, contrary to popular belief all Peat Mosses are not the same, some brands have long fibers and larger particles while others are very fine particles almost dust. The Canadian brands are usually the coarser grade Peat Moss, which makes a better mix.



I will try a mix with more peat than pine bark first and see how it feels.


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