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Pami225

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
and I'm looking for any advice whatsoever.  The pots can be almost completely sunk into the ground (any deeper and there is a cable that I probably shouldn't cut) and I understand I should drill holes in the sides of the pots, correct?  The soil around the cable is very heavy with clay and doesn't drain well at all, so I don't think I'm going to have problems with the drain holes that are already at the bottoms of the pots.  The top 8" or so is pretty airy dark soil that has been amended over the years for various projects and plantings.  I guess I need to know- how far from the top/bottom of the pot should the bigger holes be drilled?  And how big?
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Pami225

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
I made blue marks on the pots in this picture to show where I think the holes should be drilled.  Close??  or way off?

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jpeg Fig_pots_with_root_holes_marked.jpg (58.87 KB, 92 views)


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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Pami,

The holes need to be drilled as close to the bottom as possible.

I would drill at least a 1/2" hole (about 3 per side.)

You can get by with the pot buried at about 5" in the soil.

That is what I would do.

You will have trouble with the holes in the bottom when you try to take the pots out of the ground this Winter because the roots will grow through the bottom holes and you are going to have trouble cutting them for Winter storage, in other words if you are planning on sinking the pots for the summer, you will have a time trying to get the pots out of the ground.
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Cecil (Z 8b?) in the sticks of E.Tx

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Pami225

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Figluvah

You can get by with the pot buried at about 5" in the soil.


Hi Cecil!

Thanks for your response.  Being a newbie, I don't want to argue, nor do I have any basis for argument, but my thinking was along the lines of  "I have my figs in tiny containers (base is 10 x 10", top is 13 x 13" and they are about a foot deep)- therefore if I sink the entire container into the ground, I will have some of the ground as insulation, and maybe avoid overheating my containers and therefore my roots."  Is it true that tiny containers can become overheated very quickly?  That makes sense to me, but I've never used containers this small for outdoor plants.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by Figluvah

The holes need to be drilled as close to the bottom as possible.


Once again, not an argument, just an explanation of my thought-process.  The holes are drilled in the sides of the container to allow roots to wander out and grow in a less-confined environment?  The soil nearer the top of the ground is much better for roots, so that is why in my drawing I made the blue marks a little less than halfway down the planter.  And I was thinking, at that time, that the pots would be almost fully sunk into the ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Figluvah

I would drill at least a 1/2" hole (about 3 per side.)


Is that on two opposing sides?  Or all four sides?

Thanks for all your help.  One day I hope to understand this, and maybe not ask so many "basic" questions.  Who knows?  Maybe someday, I may even be able to answer a question here and there.
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gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Not sure what you are doing?
Planting figs (guess not) or pots in ground (I think so)?

Potting  them pots, just for the summer, to be later winterized inside (e.g., garage),
the drain holes need to be ONLY on the sides, and as Cecil said, close to the
bottom [else some wet bath-tub may be created].

No need to bury pots very deep.
[Fig roots are shallow surface feeders].

If there are already drain hole in the (horizontal/flat/middle) bottom, you will have
one big heck of a time digging the pots up; later, comes fall!

Roots coming out of VERTICAL sides, can be very easily severed using some digging spade. 
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Figluvah

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
I would drill the holes on all four sides!

If you drill the holes up the side of the pots where you want too, from the holes to the bottom will be holding water (not good)

Others might say differently.
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Figluvah

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
That's what I was trying to say!

You made it very clear George.....I thank Ya.
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Pami225

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Well, I put a square of weed-barrier fabric in the bottoms of all my pots before I began planting them- not because of the possibility of roots coming out, because to be honest, I hadn't thought of that yet.  I just always put something in my pots to cover my drainage holes- piece of screen, weed-barrier, heck I've put a coffee filter in the pots where I've planted some annuals before.  I don't think the roots will grow through that fabric?

Gorgi, yes, I'm planting the POTS in the ground- because they're tiny and it gets hot here.  I'm concerned about cooking the roots.

Cecil, the point at which I drill the holes is at the point below which I have standing water, is that correct?  So the lower, the better.  And then don't sink the pot so far into the ground?  Will the roots stay cool enough in these little pots??
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TucsonKen

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
If it were me, I would do as others have suggested and drill holes very near the bottom on all four sides. I also wouldn't sink the bottoms of the pots more than 2-3 inches below the surrounding soil surface, or it will be harder to cut the roots and get the pots back out of the ground for winter (plus, as you mentioned, the best soil is near the surface, and it's also better-drained). If you're worried about overheating, just pile mulch or decorative bark around the exposed pots and they'll stay cool enough. Since you already have holes in the bottoms of the pots, you can cut a piece of plastic sheeting slightly larger than the bottom of each pot to put underneath it. Roots will still grow out of the bottom holes, but they'll have to travel sideways to get past the edge of the plastic before they can go down, so you'll be able to cut them at the same time you're cutting the roots that grow out of the side holes. Good luck!
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Pami225

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Ken, thank you.  I'm really trying to understand and not make any fatal (to my baby fig trees) mistakes.  Sorry if I sound like a first-time mother.
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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Nothing wrong with first-time mothers! I'm sure your "babies" will appreciate the effort. I only learned last year about partially buying pots (from people on this forum) and it worked great for me--as I'm sure it will for you.
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Figluvah

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Pami,

I didn't see where you said you already have holes in the bottom (my bad)

so there should not be any standing water if it has some drainage in the bottom of the pots, but if the roots grow out of the horizontal bottom holes you are going to have hell cutting the roots when you are ready for winter storage....

You have got some real good advise from everyone,  Run with it, We know how you feel about the plants being your babies, been there,done that!!!!!!!
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Pami225

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Yep, have two square holes dug, need two more, then I get to use power tools!!  May not be a big deal for y'all, but DBF says I can't use them because they have "man-handles".  But I can show him on here where you guys TOLD me to, so he has to let me!!  ;)  Thanks for all your help- will post pictures when I get everything in place. 
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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Pam,

Not sure; but I do not think any barrier fabric will stop the fig roots from penetrating it?

To achieve your goal, you may want to (fresh) pot-up before doing so (put in ground).
Original pots being square(ish), it may be harder finding the next pot up size
(going roundish is OK).

Also, note that I [edited] my previous post for some clarifications...
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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Do not sunk the pot totally in ground.
3-5,inches is enough.
If you do sunk it totally you make a big mistake,but it is too much to explain,so I won't do.
Drill holes at Bottom side only.
Plug Bottom holes.
drivewayfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Herman ,
I hope you can get a chance at some point to explain what you mean about making a big mistake by burying the pot more than 3 to 5 inches. I respect your opinion very much , and  haven't seen in your previous posts on the topic that there is a danger in burying deeper.
I am worried that I have misdirected people who have gotten figs from me that they can bury their 5 gallon pots right up to the rim if they want.
Does someone else know Herman's thoughts on this if he doesn't have a chance to answer ?
Is it a concern about the pot retaining too much moisture even with holes all over the sides ?
Best ,
Kerry
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Figluvah

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Here is a link that might be helpful.
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Cecil (Z 8b?) in the sticks of E.Tx

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drivewayfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Cecil there is great info in that link and it is one of the ones that made me  decide to encourage people up here to follow that method.
I haven't seen any other posts that I recall that says why burying deeper is problematic. 
Thanks for posting that one. 
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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
drivewayfarmer: Most soil in USA,have a clay hard pan,so if the pot is buried totally in ground with the bottom side holes,the young fig get stuck,because the roots  can't penetrate the clay,to come back at the surface where the nutrients are.
Also the hard pan plug the bottom side holes so the rain that falls inside bucket will not drain out and will kill the roots close to bottom of bucket.
These observations are from the last 3 -to four years of Experience.
I found out that 5 inches or less is ideal for the potted plant,it helps with drainage and ,the proximity of nutrients,right outside the bucket,in a straight out direction.
When I first learned about this method,I wasn't told about all these little secrets,so I buried the pot to the rim,ruining my backyard,breaking my back too making such deep holes,that in fact are not needed to be made so deep.
Hope this answered your question."live and learn"
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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
I have been burying my 7-gallon pots for the past 3 or 4 years. The first year I buried them half way and some of the holes were just high there. Came cold and wet fall and it was a mess to dig out the pots. One or two would have been easy to dig out but digging out some 20 pots was a mess. The next year I buried the pot 1/3 and it was a bit easier to dig but still needed good amount of work. This year I buried the pots about 2 to 3 inches deep and if part of the side holes were showing, I mounded soil to cover the holes and the moisture from the hole made the soil stay (unless it gushes out). For a couple of the pots, I put cardboard piece around it to keep the soil in place which I will remove after a couple of weeks. I feel that I will have much easier time digging out this year. I hope so.
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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Here is what I mean Otawan,i also done just about how you did,so ,I am insisting on 5 inches or less so other people do not have to work so hard like i did ,for no gain.
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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
Thanks for clearing that up for me Herman and Ottawan.
Makes sense to me so I will adjust what I tell folks.
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Pami225

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
I just got home and read the next batch of replies.  You guys are amazing!  One of you knew exactly how I was going to bury my pots (not sure where I got the idea, but I didn't think of it myself, otherwise I wouldn't have bought four matching pots- why would I need to?  Who would see them anyway, if they were completely buried?) and got the pros and cons already ironed out before I even opened this thread!!  Did I ever tell you how much I love this forum??  

So tomorrow morning, DBF is going fishing, and I'm getting out the power drill.  I can make bigger holes than 1/2", if necessary.  Yeah, leave me alone with a power tool, and my planters could look like SpongeBob SquarePants by the time he gets home from fishing.  <evil grin>

Seriously, I'm going to try to get the side holes drilled and get the pots sunk about 3 to 4" into the ground early tomorrow, and weather permitting, will snap a pic so you can critique what I've done.  Thank you so much for all your help!
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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
You are welcome Kerry
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Pami225

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Got the holes drilled, got the pots in the ground, watered the loose soil around them and now waiting for camera batteries to charge.  Thanks for all your help!
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Posted Reply with quote  #26 

I have to confess I have been a lurker for several months, gaining knowledge from all on this board and their tremendous experience. Now maybe is the time where I can get into a discussion. In regards to keeping containers outside for the summer, a system we use is called Pot-in-Pot and I have not seen it discussed here before.  We use this with the standard industry "5 gal nursery cans"  Basically you dig a whole large enough to insert a container into buried up to the lip. This is the permanant "socket" pot. It always stays in gorund and is never removed. Then you put the other container that your plant is growing in, inside this socket pot.  There are many benefits to this simple idea:
1. The roots are insulated from extremes of hot and cold just like if the fig was planted in the ground.
2. It keeps plants from blowing over in the wind
3. Root mass seems to grow better than above ground containers
4. Can't overwater as it drains into the socket pot and then from there into ground, no bath tub effect
5. Easy to hook up to drip irrigation
6. Easy to adjust plant by turning top pot
7. Just lift out to take in for winter, or put into in spring
8. Should air prune roots
9. Only dig the hole once, not every year!

If you are using the same size and brand container you will need a spacer between the 2 or they will jam together and stick.  We use a soda can on it's side. cheap and readily available.  Beer cans work too! This keeps the top container with the plant up a little and allows some air circulation.  We also changed ours and leave them about 3-4" above soil level for the socket pot. this way we put wood chips in between the containers to keep down weed growth. We originally put ours on 2' centers but if you spaced a little farther apart you could get a weed eater in and around easier.  You can use this with any size container although 1 and 2 gallon probably aren't worth the trouble.  We chose the 5 gal because it is easily available and to standardize.

I may not have written well enought to explain so here is a link that shows a picture and tells about it http://www.lsuagcenter.com/en/crops_livestock/crops/nursery_crops/Potinpot+Nursery+Production.htm
TucsonKen

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
PTAggie--Looks like a great idea! Thanks for posting it, and welcome to the forum!
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Pami225

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
PTAggie do you grow FIGS using this system?  My trees are tiny yet, so this may be
something I can look into, in future years.  This is what they look like over a period of 
6 weeks or so.  Something is wrong with my camera, so the bottom picture is not a
great quality- taken with my phone.

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jpeg Figs_0410_to_0525.jpg (266.43 KB, 30 views)


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Posted Reply with quote  #29 

Pami - Stored might be a better term than grow.  We have a small nursery on the farm. This is the system we keep plants in for sale and also keep some nursery stock over the winter.  We do 50' rows 25 pots to a row 2 rows per aisle. We will be overwintering some figs in this system but havent so far. Overwintered mainly conifers, apples, peach, berry bushes, We do our growing inground.  It just seems like an easy way to move and set plants and not worry about holes in the sides to keep roots from growing into ground etc
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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
PTAggie
I, and I believe some others, do pot in pot summer growing but with different intention. The main advantage is that the plant roots go out through the holes and gets extra nutrients from the soil added between the two pots as well as the plant can be relatively easily removed from the outside (socket) pot in the fall.
I have some fig plants in 5-gallon pots that are placed inside 7+ gallon pots. The 5-gallon pots still have good number of side holes near the bottom and the space between the two pots is filled with garden soil mix with compost while the inside pot is with light well drained mix. The roots go out to graze for nutrients in the soil between the two pots (and they really circle well outside around the internal pot and that is OK. In the fall it is easy to lift the 5-gallon pot with the plant and prune the roots and take it to cold storage room in the basement for the winter instead of the big 7+ gallon pot.
This way the plant gets nutrient from garden soil between the two pots in addition to the fertilizer added to the 5-gallon plant pot. I believe the root pruning frequency is also minimized by annual pruning in the fall.
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Posted Reply with quote  #31 

OttawanZ5
That makes sense for a good growing situation, still easy to remove since the roots do not go into the actual ground just another container.  It is a good system if you don't mind putting plants in the same place each year.  As for me I have dug enough holes in my life so I can be satisfied with the same spot each year
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