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Ronde De Bordeaux and Nero 600m - Same fig!?

These appear to be the exact same figs. Leaves look identical, fruit identical and exact same ripening time. Out of about 50 varieties these are the only ripening this early other than Lattarula.

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Nope, definitely not the same.  Your pictures are RdB.  You may have a mislabeled Nero 600M.

Can you possibly post pictures of your Nero to compare?

Another thing that distinguishes these two varieties is that Nero600m has a breba crop while RdB generally does not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by livetaswim06
Can you possibly post pictures of your Nero to compare?


I assume that those were meant to be side-by-side comparisons of RdB and the supposed Nero 600M.

The Nero leaf is on the left, the Nero fruit is on the far left in my palm. These did not get mislabeled either.

Strange as I found it to be almost identical to VDB

For me, the RdB fruit is almost perfectly round while Nero600m (and VdB) have a bit of an oblong shape to them.  Of course, the highly round fruit shape is how Ronde de Bordeaux got its name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrdewhirst


I assume that those were meant to be side-by-side comparisons of RdB and the supposed Nero 600M.


Since you said they were absolutely different I was asking you to post pictures of your Nero for comparison.

The two pictured leaves don't look like my RdB. My 600M has too much FMV this spring to get a good idea of leaf shape.

My RdB leaves:

This is pretty typical of mine but I know they can vary.
022.JPG  024.JPG


RDB and Nero 600m are definitely not the same.  If yours are the same, you have a mislabeled tree.

So... I guess I have two RDB trees....either way I am very pleased these are ripening so early. I planted 4 trees in my backyard for successive ripening and this works out pretty good to have figs for a while from in ground trees. 

Nero 600m(Actually RDB!)- Very early
LSU Tiger-Early
Alma-Middle
Italian 258-Late

Look at the RdB leaves in the second picture of post #7 here: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/this-ebay-does-not-look-like-ronde-de-bordeaux-6952286?highlight=rdb+leaf+shape&pid=1283255581

Or look here first post: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/yellowing-leaves-on-rdb-6403233?highlight=rdb+leaves&pid=1278528788

Those RdB leaves look just like mine. Don't look like yours. I can pick out RdB from all my other figs at 20ft when it's growing right.

In terms of fruit mine has never bore fruit at every node and the fruits are smaller. But I didn't have a bearing plant last yr and my memory isn't what it used to be.

I'm not so sure your fig is RdB

Thanks guys! Not to add confusion but those " Real RDB" leaves and fruit look just like all the Black Italian trees I have. Such is figdom!

The leaves can show some variation, but RdB typically has reddish dots on it's skin.

P8241857 - kopie.JPG 


Justin -- Getting back to this, after some hours away:  IMO, the fruit and leaves pictured in the 1st post are all RdB.  I agree with Steve -- RdB fruit is very round (and subtlety ribbed) whereas Nero 600M is more teardrop (and smooth).  I'd add that while the leaves of RdB have longish fingers, the leaves of Nero 600M have even longer fingers (strikingly so).  Also, Nero 600M has a common leaf-shape variation -- a spade-like shape, no lobes.  Its not unusual to have both "spades" and "5 long fingers" on the same tree.

Anton -- Sorry, I misinterpreted your request.  I don't have any pix of my Nero 600Ms handy.  I'd suggest that you just search for pix of VdB.  As Steve noted, they seem identical, or nearly so.  You would not see any difference between the leaves on my Nero 600Ms and those pictured for Violette de Bordeaux.

I agree with Joe and would add that the Nero600m fingers have a bit of a point to them while the RdB fingers are more rounded off.  I am attaching a pic of my Nero600m which is coming back from winter damage.  Also attached is a pic of my RdB taken a year or two ago.

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My friend from England asked me if Nero 600m and Vallecalda are the same variety.
This is impossible because Vallecalda (by me named when by me sent in the States years ago) I discoverd (AFTER) that is very known variety in various regions of Italy with names of Piombinese, San Piero, or Corbo (Corbo in tuscanian, Corvo in Italian, Crow in English), EASILY distinguish for its blue color LONGITUDINALLY white STRIPPED, oval shape.
I not know what fig is Nero 600m.
I remember a Fig by me diffused in the States, it was by me found in Camonica Valley, in the Alps Mountains, extreme northern Italy. 
I named this variety Valle Negra (or Valle Nera).
In the argument of origin of these varieties I yet answered years ago, that the first was by me found in a yard of a very small village in the Appennine Mountains at level of 480 m above sea level, called Vallecalda from the name of the village (Swarm Valley); and the second was found in a very dark and step valley (very cold), near Breno, Camonica Valley in the Alps Mountains at level of 600 m above sea level.  Valle negra means Black valley. its fruits are perfectly round, NOT stripped.
The question of distinction was yet asked me and had answer time ago. 
I think the mess of names is produced by too much freely "edit" names.
It is evident that Vallecalda and Valle Negra are different names, and different plants.
It is possible that (as I do herein for indicate the level where I found it) the adding information may be has the effect of increase the mess, if someone creatively modifies names accordingly.
It is clear that the hundreds yeas old tree of Breno (Valle Negra) do not come from Bordeax. The French names; the French are naming places like Bordeaux as the origin of fig fig tree, I more modestly saw that the valley was dark.

The explication for my rersearches in mountains is that I look for good figs in cold sites; I think is not utile find figs for climates not existing where figs are really cultivate.
I've yet received notification that Valle Negra is a really good black fig.
I DO NOT conserved this fig, because I cannot plant dozens and dozens of figs that I gather around.
Regards,
Blastophaga

I have Valle Negra, but it is a new plant, well it will produce this year. it has brebas now, and they are very dark. Thanks for bringing this plant out, as I['m in very cold Michigan. I protect in the winter, but they do grow well here in the summer. I love these kinds of finds, keep the good work up!

  • Larsb
  • · Edited

Blastophaga, now that was an excellent explanation about the origins of those cultivars. Thanks for the history and for clarifying the names and regions as it was quite very interesting to read this information!
I myself am trying out a Valle Negra that rooted this winter and is now a robust grower in a 3 gallon container. It seems to be a very healthy specimen! I plan to plant it in ground at a cooler, dark and windy area by my house when it becomes a bit larger. I also have a 2 year old Nero 600m which has one oblong breba that is in ground and Ronde de Bordeaux excellent round fruits for its first year in a large planter but now in ground with some breba on it now and putting out figlets for the main crop. I also have a Violette de Bordeoux which is a 4 year old that was just put in ground this year and has a lot of oblong breba crop.

Nero 600 and VdB are the same though.

Blastophaga, thank you for giving the background on those figs,I am sure the same was posted somewhere I read before regarding Nero 600m,maybe that was by you,I can't remember. now.

So,Vallecalda(found at 480M) is not Ronde de Bordeaux
Valle Negra( found at 600M is not Ronde De Bordeaux
Is Valle Negra the same as Nero 600M?,or are they just by fluke of geography from the same height above sea level?

LarsB you are growing both so I'm guessing you will get to compare.

Nero 600 and VdB are the same.  Is there any difference between Nero 600 and Nero 600m?

Thanks

Nero600m and Nero600 are synonyms.  The preferred name is Nero600m.

The confusion about the two "valley" was done many years ago. I never said "Nero 600m".

The difference is absolutely this:
If is OVAL (long) white striped, for longitudinal laceration of the rather thick skin: is name (hystorically) is Piombinese, San Piero, Corbo, (by me named Vallecalda). You can find here the original painted image of begin of 1800. If you like I can translate the description from old italian of the author of that document. The decription written, read by me today, is perfect for define this fig.
This fig is perfect for transport and handlig (robust peel), is perfect for make ices (said by my friend that sells fruits for make ices), produces Brebas and Forniti (true-fig) the last (forniti) are a bit smaller. For me is a bit "rough" if not perfectly ripe, peel is robust, (good for transport).

The Valle Negra are absolutely round without lacerations, I do not know its real name, it is possible that was exported by French that dominate the Alps region and named Ronde de B. or vice-versa imported, or are absolutely different.
Of course I do not have possibility of change anything, but if possible is a good thing to respect the historical names and not create new ones.
P:S: In China said me that the Piombinese colour is not so dark.

I apologize to everyone if I made (at first) this mistake, but my knowledge 20 years ago was not that of now. fico_san_piero.jpg 


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